A Good Reason To NOT Clean Your Credit

[Why Chat]

I have had MANY spirited exchanges with fellow CB members about the value of "validation" pre SOL.

 

Most on this board seem to feel that it is the right thing to do to help get bad stuff off reports and raise scores.

 

I have always suggested, opting out, getting old addresses deleted, and NOT disputing or "validating" accounts within SOL.

 

The credit card companies and mortgage lenders are not the only people who pay attention to your "score", the collection agencies do too.

 

There is a proccess in the collection agency industry called "segmentation" this is SCORE BASED.The higher your score, the greater attention will be paid to collecting on your account,and the greater the chance of you being sued if you are within SOL.

[stormct24]

definately something to watch out for, I personally am not aggessively attacking my credit report, because some are still within SOL, am just working on **B** and waiting till end of year when some of the badies will fall off natuarally

[hegemony]

collections data mining has gotten a lot more sophistocated and you're right that collections accounts are often factored into segments based scores with the assumption someone with a higher score has a highly probability of paying.

[Sultan]

Extremely profound point Why Chat, I think that is a point of merit which many may overlook, its an assumption to think that by having high scoring credit ratings that, lenders and potential creditors are the only entities who will take notice, hence the ever present identity theft issue would also be a noteworthy concern. I also take notice that I received at least one bizarre letter from a credit card company claiming I had an account with them, which I did not, and they could not find specific information regarding the account, I ignored the letter but saved it, and this occurred after my score with EQ had increased to reflect very favorable. It almost makes me wonder if information is still being sold even though I opted out, funny that the credit card company was also in Atlanta GA.

[MistakeOfPast]

hmmmm, I wonder if that is why none of my creditors filed suit against me.

 

Frankly, when I had to make that fateful decision back in 1999 to stop paying ALL bills, except feeding my children (I even stopped eating-lost over a hundred pounds-only good thing that has come out of this ) I thought I'd be sued!

 

I was in litigation w/ my ex over his failure to pay medical and child support.

To make a long story short, I had to do what I had to do- lost the house, car, everything-

my financial life was over.

 

But it's the lowered credit score that may have prevented suits?????

 

Interesting......

[wishing]

thanks for the info. i'll be honest...i was going dv everything inside sol about 3 of them. the others i will attack outside sol. this makes complete sense. those i have started i will try to finsih up and let sleeping dogs lay

[CramItCCCAs]

Most worthy endeavors are inherently risky, sitting on ones hands as a principal is not productive. That doesn't mean you should throw all caution to the wind, but abandoning credit repair tactics that work is not ALWAYS advisable!

[recruiting]

Does not really help if you want new credit and your FICO score stinks though..

 

Bad score, no new credit..

 

But there is something to your theory though. Now that my reports are 98% clean and the BK's are gone off 2 of them I got no less than THREE letters from CA's. I have no idea for what? One is even trying to collect on an account that is already with AFNI. Which is my only baddie showing... All my baddies were IIB in nature so I don't know who or what they are looking for..

Edited May 1, 2005 by recruiting

[flacorps]

I think it all comes down to knowing exactly who and what your adversaries are, and how each adversary operates.

 

If you have reviewed your CRA reports and understand every listing, whether it be a CO with an OC, a CA entry or a JDB's entry; and you know the propensity of each OC, CA and OC to sue or sell the claim down the line to a JDB or attorney who will sue; and you know that none of those organizations has a propensity to go to suit or that their claim(s) against you is/are below their dollar threshold(s) for lawsuits (or you know they will violate the FDCPA and that when presented with a consumer who knows they've violated and is willing to slap them around [in court if necessary] they fold their tents and go away); then you might feel comfortable starting cleanup before the relevant statutes of limitations run.

 

If you're up against companies that sue ... your motto will have to be "run silent, run deep".

[lgt525]

I have had MANY spirited exchanges with fellow CB members about the value of "validation" pre SOL.

 

Most on this board seem to feel that it is the right thing to do to help get bad stuff off reports and raise scores.

 

I have always suggested, opting out, getting old addresses deleted, and NOT disputing or "validating" accounts within SOL.

 

The credit card companies and mortgage lenders are not the only people who pay attention to your "score", the collection agencies do too.

 

There is a proccess in the collection agency industry called "segmentation" this is SCORE BASED.The higher your score, the greater attention will be paid to collecting on your account,and the greater the chance of you being sued if you are within SOL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I totally agree with Why Chat's assessment here. My scores have gone up 120 to 150 points since I started credit repair two years ago. I have also had a couple JDB entries surface on my credit reports as my scores went up. The latest one is a $16,000+ tl from Colorado capital for an old B of A credit card that was CO'ed six years ago. (Original CO amount was only around $4,000) (they have illegally reaged the debt, but I have documentation, etc. The SOL was up in december, the cras are mostly showing the SOL as up in May. I haven't figured out what to do yet, but I digress...)

 

I think that as my scores have gone up, I have become more of a target for CA's and JDBs. Luckily in my case, all of my debt is now out of the SOL, but still, it's going to be a pain to clean up the new negs that keep sporadically cropping up. Still, all in all, I am glad that I repaired my credit and that I now have credit cards and a new car, etc. I probably would have had to fight these JDBs and CA's anyway, and at least I have improved credit.

 

 

lgt

[akaimushi]

A Good Reason To NOT Clean Your Credit, Raising Scores Pre-Sol Increases Risks

 

Thats like saying "Don't where your setbealt, it can kill you if you get into an accident."

 

If you approach credit repair haphazardly then your asking for trouble. If you approach it with a plan and purpose. Have due dilligence, and a good common sense head on your shoulders you should be fine.

 

If your checking your report as you should. You should/would now who is looking at your report. Soft or hard. So nothing really should be a surprise. If your going after a 10k debt that is 2 years old for validation, 9 times out of 10 your going to get sued. Dont do that. But believe me, you are not going to have a 700 FICO score with a 10k 2 year old collection on your report.

[radi8]

Validation is a tool like many other things.

It has to be appropriate for the job you are attempting.

 

For some debts, waiting until the SOL has passed is great advice- nevermind the collections scoring for a moment- sometimes prodding the creditor will get you extra unwanted attention.

 

If it's a debt so large you can't pay or settle it- and it's within SOL- and it's easily validated-

our advice is normally to think twice before validating.

If they whip up proper validation, the ball bounces to your court.

Hopefully that possibility has been planned for.

 

In other cases, particularly if the debt is incorrect or unknown, or of an amount easily dealt with if push comes to shove- Or beyone SOL- validation is pretty harmless.

 

Collections scoring is a bit different than the FICO scoring lenders use. It's designed to rate the chances of recovery, not risk to a lender.

But WhyChat is correct in that many of the things that raise your FICO will also raise your collections score.

[laker3peat]

Does not really help if you want new credit and your FICO score stinks though..

 

Bad score, no new credit..

 

But there is something to your theory though. Now that my reports are 98% clean and the BK's are gone off 2 of them I got no less than THREE letters from CA's. I have no idea for what? One is even trying to collect on an account that is already with AFNI. Which is my only baddie showing... All my baddies were IIB in nature so I don't know who or what they are looking for..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can still get secured cards to start the rebuilding process...

[laker3peat]

Why Chat--When someone receives a dunning letter and the debt is within SOL, is this a different scenario?

 

P.S. Thanks for bringing this up.

Edited May 2, 2005 by laker3peat

[angeleyeskkhr]

I have had MANY spirited exchanges with fellow CB members about the value of "validation" pre SOL.

 

Most on this board seem to feel that it is the right thing to do to help get bad stuff off reports and raise scores.

 

I have always suggested, opting out, getting old addresses deleted, and NOT disputing or "validating" accounts within SOL.

 

The credit card companies and mortgage lenders are not the only people who pay attention to your "score", the collection agencies do too.

 

There is a proccess in the collection agency industry called "segmentation" this is SCORE BASED.The higher your score, the greater attention will be paid to collecting on your account,and the greater the chance of you being sued if you are within SOL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm waiting for fi's co's to get past SOL, but if you've opted out, how can CA's get your scores? Or would they pull hards (how would they know to fish?)?

[Why Chat]

Why Chat--When someone receives a dunning letter and the debt is within SOL, is this a different scenario? 

 

P.S.  Thanks for bringing this up. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I always suggest ignoring dunning letters for debts within SOL.

 

As to how the CA can get your score if you have opted out-- they subscribe to a service that MAY be able to access your account,( good question !!) or they can do a hard pull with pp if they already have your account.

 

I am not into credit scoring all that much, mostly I deal with keeping people from getting sued, or helping them if they are sued, however the "CRA Gurus" on CB might check into that, (the question if the companies that provide scoring data based reports to CA's are affected by an opt out)

[HankScorpio]

What about this situation?

 

For example, I have two tradelines listed with one our favorite JDB's (AA).

 

1. Well out of SOL - Smaller of two tradelines.

2. Well within SOL.

 

Do you dispute #1? Or do you not risk waking up the JDB if you are concerned about getting sued for #2. In my case, I could settle if sued (I don't think they will for this amount), so I disputed #1. After I am done with everthing else on my reports, I will turn my attention to #1.

[Why Chat]

What about this situation?

 

For example, I have two tradelines listed with one our favorite JDB's (AA).

 

1.  Well out of SOL - Smaller of two tradelines.

2.  Well within SOL.

 

Do you dispute #1?  Or do you not risk waking up the JDB if you are concerned about getting sued for #2.  In my case, I could settle if sued (I don't think they will for this amount), so I disputed #1.  After I am done with everthing else on my reports, I will turn my attention to #1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have given my opinion about disputing or validating within SOL.

When past SOL I suggest the SOL letter.

 

If it's AA then I suggest you double check your SOL as these A$$(O)ES generally buy accounts that are past SOL, or have some other fatal flaw that prevents them from legal action.

[Pavlov]

Most worthy endeavors are inherently risky, sitting on ones hands as a principal is not productive. That doesn't mean you should throw all caution to the wind, but abandoning credit repair tactics that work is not ALWAYS advisable!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I am with Crammitt on this one, Why Chat. The information you provided makes perfect sense to me, but I have seen more fumble fingered CA's trying to figure out which end is which I don't think there is much chance I will quiver and quake when one of them gets their hands on some information which might be detrimental to me.

 

I prefer to assume they are fumble fingered, because right now the preponderance of the evidence says they are. That's my view anyways. I just can't see sitting on my hands waiting for the SOL to run out on every account which might sue.

[laker3peat]

Most worthy endeavors are inherently risky, sitting on ones hands as a principal is not productive. That doesn't mean you should throw all caution to the wind, but abandoning credit repair tactics that work is not ALWAYS advisable!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I am with Crammitt on this one, Why Chat. The information you provided makes perfect sense to me, but I have seen more fumble fingered CA's trying to figure out which end is which I don't think there is much chance I will quiver and quake when one of them gets their hands on some information which might be detrimental to me.

 

I prefer to assume they are fumble fingered, because right now the preponderance of the evidence says they are. That's my view anyways. I just can't see sitting on my hands waiting for the SOL to run out on every account which might sue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is one of the things we've bickered about... late at night... when normal people sleep.

 

IF you want to risk it, you are informed and I trust you could handle it. But, newbies should be warned...

[Sultan]

Most worthy endeavors are inherently risky, sitting on ones hands as a principal is not productive. That doesn't mean you should throw all caution to the wind, but abandoning credit repair tactics that work is not ALWAYS advisable!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think I am with Crammitt on this one, Why Chat. The information you provided makes perfect sense to me, but I have seen more fumble fingered CA's trying to figure out which end is which I don't think there is much chance I will quiver and quake when one of them gets their hands on some information which might be detrimental to me.

 

I prefer to assume they are fumble fingered, because right now the preponderance of the evidence says they are. That's my view anyways. I just can't see sitting on my hands waiting for the SOL to run out on every account which might sue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My feelings on this one are; I really don't have to be on one side of the fence or the other, for me more than anything, it is simply very useful knowledge of cause and effect and serves well for awareness purposes. I feel an advantage by being armed with more information and understanding the different aspects, repercussions, and possibilities that entail with regards to credit & credit repair. I also think a good topic such as this brings up the nuts and bolts of certain areas that I am still learning about credit; therefore the more knowledge I have and learn the better chances I stand when it comes to making a judgment call. It's really nothing that anyone should take out of context; one must apply their unique circumstances which they know better than anyone. I'm interpreting this as Why Chat informing people of what the different possibilities are and what could happen, rather than telling people to abandon or stagnate.

[wisspurr]

I have been having this discussion with myself regarding Big Bank CO from 1999-2000. If I could just get the correct date that it first went deliquent, I would rest a little easier. It seems like everytime I broach this one with the CRA's, big bank comes back and passes it to another CA. But even with this one on my report, my scores are a lot higher than they were 3 years ago. I just keep thinking what if this was gone? I am waiting for a reply from my DV letter to Hanna. This is the second time. The last time was 2002 and they never validated, but 6 weeks ago they did a hard pull and sent out the same letter, signed by the same person (funny how the signatures look nothing alike) and with the current date. All because I disputed in Nov of 04 that they changed the status date and dropped my FICO.

 

Anyway, I ramble. It is a very good point that WhyChat made. Just be sure to check your state SOL.

[Pavlov]

My feelings on this one are; I really don't have to be on one side of the fence or the other, for me more than anything, it is simply very useful knowledge of cause and effect and serves well for awareness purposes. I feel an advantage by being armed with more information and understanding the different aspects, repercussions, and possibilities that entail with regards to credit & credit repair. I also think a good topic such as this brings up the nuts and bolts of certain areas that I am still learning about credit; therefore the more knowledge I have and learn the better chances I stand when it comes to making a judgment call. It's really nothing that anyone should take out of context; one must apply their unique circumstances which they know better than anyone. I'm interpreting this as Why Chat informing people of what the different possibilities are and what could happen, rather than telling people to abandon or stagnate.

 

No doubt this is well informed. Why Chat's initiation of the issue is appreciated by all of us, I think. I have learned much from WhyChat's PM and posts, and will continue to rely on him and refer others to him whenever it is appropriate. And it appropriate frequently because of his extensive experience.

[blackberry74]

I've been wondering about this and am torn. On the one hand, I'd really like to clean up my credit NOW, especially since SOL in my state is 6 years. I'll be waiting practically FOREVER for my scores to go up and my report to be clean if I waited. On the other, I can't afford to have CAs suing me.

 

What to do, what to do?

[Broke Chick]

 

I tend more toward Why Chat's viewpoint for in-SOL accounts.

 

 

While we all would like to get back in the good graces of the "credit gods", rushing the process can be more trouble than it's worth:

 

Disputing an account that is in collections IS a risk ...a potentially BIG one!!

 

Do you have the money to settle--preferably PIF--the account to keep the collectors out-of-Court?? Most people, within SOL, do NOT!!

 

If you dispute such an account, are you ready to sue?? Defend yourself if you are sued?? Court actions do involve massive amounts of time, and no mean expense, for the pro-se filer...it can take literally years to master the law, even in just this one area! Never mind the time...and potential aggravation...of arguing your case in court.

 

Hire an attorney? Even more expense (which is what you'll pay for the "expertise" )...and still loads of hassle!

 

Are you ready to LOSE?? Face a judgment that might have been avoided?? Risk a garnishment and/or property siezure to pay such a judgment??

 

Will "laying low" keep you out-of-trouble?? Not necessarily, of course. You may still be sued...or dragged through the kangaroo court known as "mandatory arbitration"!! It depends on the creditor,and/ or CA, and/or JDB, and how aggressive they are.

 

If you are dealing with such "slimeballs" as Cr@pitalOne...'cuse me!... CapitalOne, the vicious MBNA, and Citibank ("Shitibank"), a lawsuit and/or arbitration is very likely; take the time early on after default to learn how to defend yourself when (rarely "if") the time comes!! Same for accounts that end up at such"lovely" JDB's as Collect America/CACV ("CACA"), The Sherman Acquisition "Dysfunctional" Family of companies, A$$et Acceptance (A$$0les UNacceptable, as Why Chat would say! ), UNIF*CK...'cuse me!...UNIFUND, and almost any firm owned by the Hanna (Crime) Family of GA, to name just a few of the weasels and skunks and sharks that try to "bend us over" and "rob" us!!

 

Most CAs/JDBs/OCs?: Check your local court filings to see how often they DO sue, and act accordingly. Usually this means...hide! If they harrass you anyway...think "countersuit" (if the worst happens) with all the "sweet" violations you will "harvest" from their pathetic collection attempts; you can offset the debt this way...and, perhaps, have some $$ left over!! Or,sue them yourself...but only if they really screw up to the point where, even if you are sued by them, you will not likely be left with having to pay expenses "out-of-pocket" for long.

 

True: SOL is a "long time". Use the time to learn how not to get in trouble again, deal with the law and court actions if you need to, save money, and get in the habit of paying cash. We who are in financial trouble ARE NOT "GEORGE"...we should not expect to get to HIS level...or anywhere near there... very fast (if at all).

 

In other words: In credit repair, patience is not only a "virtue", it is essential!!