If we unite we can win

[Pauper]

The student loan bankruptcy law, as currently written, is wrong, draconian, extremely punitive and a gross over-reaction to the abuses of the student loan system that occurred in decades past.

 

They changed the law to make it more difficult to bankrupt your student loans, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT!

 

If the law can be changed that way why can't it be changed the other way?

 

An attitude of "Oh well, we must work within the system" spells misery for thousands of good people.

 

Every day in this country individuals and businesses go bankrupt. Their bankruptcies impact on all of us down the line. Why are the dollars they owe less valuable than the dollars student loan debtors owe?

 

I'm not for running away from debts so save your arguments. I am for hard, FAIR, justice-based solutions that do not grind people in their old age into poverty.

 

If you want to change the laws then see the links I posted earlier. It can be done if we all unite and apply political pressure!

[TxQuiltGirl]

This is NOT a political action site; this is a site designed to assist those with credit problems, including SLs.

 

My patience is wearing thing. VERY thin.

[LynnInMN]

The student loan bankruptcy law, as currently written, is wrong, draconian, extremely punitive and a gross over-reaction to the abuses of the student loan system that occurred in decades past.

 

They changed the law to make it more difficult to bankrupt your student loans, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT!

 

You wanna know why??? Because of the professionals, particularly lawyers who where graduating from law school and immediately filing for BK!! According to statistics I saw years back for law schools in California, 40% of graduating attorneys were filing BK on there loans within 3 years of graduation!!

 

If the law can be changed that way why can't it be changed the other way?

Again, why should BK be allowed for student loans?? I can understand certain situations, but for the most part no. They borrowed the funds and they should be paid back. The other article you posted said the something about the average student have $17.6k in student loan debt. That same student thinks nothing about spending that same amount of money on a vehicle that might serve them for 6 or 7 years. An eduation is for life...it cant be repossed.

An attitude of "Oh well, we must work within the system" spells misery for thousands of good people.

 

Every day in this country individuals and businesses go bankrupt. Their bankruptcies impact on all of us down the line. Why are the dollars they owe less valuable than the dollars student loan debtors owe?

 

I'm not for running away from debts so save your arguments. I am for hard, FAIR, justice-based solutions that do not grind people in their old age into poverty.

The interest rates on student loans are just about the lowest ever. (They went up last year) The consolidation loan program allows people to have affordable money payments, geared to income.

 

If you want to change the laws then see the links I posted earlier. It can be done if we all unite and apply political pressure!

No comment. I read some of those forums. Sad.

[centex]

This is NOT a political action site; this is a site designed to assist those with credit problems, including SLs.

 

My patience is wearing thing. VERY thin.

 

Quilty, hopefully I am not wandering where I shouldn't, but...

 

for the OP, the significant distinction is that one type of debt is privately backed while the other is taxpayer backed. Those debts backed by the public should have an inherently higher standard for discharge.

 

And that's all I will opine about that in this forum...

[TxQuiltGirl]

This is NOT a political action site; this is a site designed to assist those with credit problems, including SLs.

 

My patience is wearing thing. VERY thin.

 

Quilty, hopefully I am not wandering where I shouldn't, but...

 

for the OP, the significant distinction is that one type of debt is privately backed while the other is taxpayer backed. Those debts backed by the public should have an inherently higher standard for discharge.

 

And that's all I will opine about that in this forum...

 

 

Centex, you are a gem!

[Pauper]

The student loan bankruptcy law, as currently written, is wrong, draconian, extremely punitive and a gross over-reaction to the abuses of the student loan system that occurred in decades past.

 

They changed the law to make it more difficult to bankrupt your student loans, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT!

 

You wanna know why??? Because of the professionals, particularly lawyers who where graduating from law school and immediately filing for BK!! According to statistics I saw years back for law schools in California, 40% of graduating attorneys were filing BK on there loans within 3 years of graduation!!

 

If the law can be changed that way why can't it be changed the other way?

Again, why should BK be allowed for student loans?? I can understand certain situations, but for the most part no. They borrowed the funds and they should be paid back. The other article you posted said the something about the average student have $17.6k in student loan debt. That same student thinks nothing about spending that same amount of money on a vehicle that might serve them for 6 or 7 years. An eduation is for life...it cant be repossed.

An attitude of "Oh well, we must work within the system" spells misery for thousands of good people.

 

Every day in this country individuals and businesses go bankrupt. Their bankruptcies impact on all of us down the line. Why are the dollars they owe less valuable than the dollars student loan debtors owe?

 

I'm not for running away from debts so save your arguments. I am for hard, FAIR, justice-based solutions that do not grind people in their old age into poverty.

The interest rates on student loans are just about the lowest ever. (They went up last year) The consolidation loan program allows people to have affordable money payments, geared to income.

 

If you want to change the laws then see the links I posted earlier. It can be done if we all unite and apply political pressure!

No comment. I read some of those forums. Sad.

 

I'm betting you think Christmas is a "waste of time".

 

Bankruptcy is in the original US Constitution, BEFORE even the Bill of Rights. It is GUARANTEED by the US Constituion, everyone has the RIGHT to have legitimate acess to it. Your position is at odds with that seminal document to US law.

 

What gives you the right to your position? Mine come from the US Constitution.

[breeze]

Pauper, sorry, your posts are being moderated again. You can post, if it's contributing something, we'll make it visible. If it isn't, no one will see it. Your overwhelming anger is just not wanted here. Try http://www.studentloanslave.org - they are an activist group and you can vent all you want to there, that's just not what we do here.

[breeze]

This is NOT a political action site; this is a site designed to assist those with credit problems, including SLs.

 

My patience is wearing thing. VERY thin.

 

Quilty, hopefully I am not wandering where I shouldn't, but...

 

for the OP, the significant distinction is that one type of debt is privately backed while the other is taxpayer backed. Those debts backed by the public should have an inherently higher standard for discharge.

 

And that's all I will opine about that in this forum...

 

Centex, you've been right on the money. Unfortunately, I think I see some of the OP's problem and this is just not the right place for it, as you just stated very well.

[breeze]

You know, I contacted the owner of the studentloanslave site, and we are linking to that site - feel free to send anyone who feels they've been cheated and need to scream at someone and cry about their victimization. Perhaps they will make good activists. I can't for the life of me figure out why they come here and want to take this board over and paper it with their anger.

[TxQuiltGirl]

Yeah, breeze, I hate that.

 

Geez, I can't even go get a shower without crap erupting all over the place!

[psp]

For the RECORD, pauper, I SAID that trying to get out of paying student loans was chickenshit, not YOU were a chickenshit. Learn to read before you accuse.

[breeze]

psp, I think the anger is pretty much uncontrollable, it doesn't matter who says what.

[radi8]

Bankruptcy is in the original US Constitution, BEFORE even the Bill of Rights. It is GUARANTEED by the US Constituion, everyone has the RIGHT to have legitimate acess to it. Your position is at odds with that seminal document to US law.

What gives you the right to your position? Mine come from the US Constitution.

 

Now you've crossed over into history, which is my fave subject, lol.

So grab a cup of coffee, and sit.

 

 

Early American law had no consumer bankruptcy provision. Debtor's prisons were the order of the day.

Neither the Articles of Confederation nor the U.S. Constitution contained specific provisions for bankruptcy -- although the Constitution did give Congress the power to establish new laws, including uniform federal bankruptcy laws.

 

In 1800, by one vote, Congress passed the very first American bankruptcy law.

It was very similar to the 1705 British law, although a fraudulent bankrupt could not be sentenced to death as they could in England.

It was repealed three years later.

 

Congress tried again in 1841, after the abolishment of debtors' prisons.

The new act allowed for both commercial and consumer debtors.

Debtors could claim some very basic exemptions, although there were strict limits on what debts could be discharged. Debtors as well as creditors could file cases.

This creation of debtor filings -- voluntary bankruptcies -- was a huge event. Thousands of debtors filed for and received discharges and creditors received very little.

Surprise.... The act was repealed after just two years.

 

Congress tried yet again in 1867.

This law again allowed for both consumer and non-consumer debtors, and allowed voluntary and involuntary cases.

In a new twist, Debtors had to take an oath of allegiance to the United States (this was just after the Civil War).

This law made it a bit longer, lasting 11 years and was finally repealed because too many debtors were using it and creditors were getting little in return.

(You thought creditors having sway with Congress is something new, eh?)

 

The next attempt was the Bankruptcy Act of 1898.

This law allowed both voluntary and involuntary cases, permitted debtors to claim exemptions and removed most barriers for discharging virtually all debts.

During the 1920s, the act was amended to add grounds for denial of discharge and debts excepted from the discharge.

This law, unlike the attempts before it, remained in effect for 40 years.

 

In 1938, Congress overhauled every part of American bankruptcy law.

Although most changes affected business bankruptcies, this law also created Chapter 13, the wage earners' repayment plan.

 

Bankruptcy law remained essentially unchanged until the Bankruptcy Act of 1978, and amended again in 1984 to add several new categories of nondischargeable debts.

A sweeping overhaul of the laws were inplemented in 2005, marking the most substantial changes since the 1938 overhaul.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------

 

Ok, now you have the history of BK laws in America as pieced together from various sources, lol. Hopefully you made it through without major fatigue setting in.

 

Bankruptcy is NOT a constitutional "right". Neither is easy access to student loan money.

Be careful what you wish for as the law of unintended consequences never rests.

Too many Sl losses may make the program just plain unavailable to those who need it most.

 

Student loans are unlike any other debt (with the possible exception of tax debts) in that the money was essentially borrowed not from banks who accept the risks before making loans- but from other Americans.

The standard for discharge of Government debts is higher because of the origin of the money involved.

It's not venture capital, it's a chunk of the paycheck of every employed American.

Even so, in true hardship cases, the loans can still be forgiven, settled or discharged.

The real question here is whether the standard for "hardship" is too high. And in some areas I agree that the law has been intrepreted in a very narrow fashion.

 

You are correct in that another part of the reason the standard is so high is the abuse that occurred in the past.

It's not the Fed's that "ruined" it for us, it's former borrowers who had the means to repay- but knew the loopholes and just didn't.

I think you'll find very little sympathy among the general public for easier SL discharge laws.

Far too many still have bitter tastes in their mouthes from the Doctors and Lawyers who discharged their student loans and went on to earn six-figure salaries.

[TxQuiltGirl]

 

radi8 you have reaffirmed your position in my heart as a true hero!

[LynnInMN]

It's not the Fed's that "ruined" it for us, it's former borrowers who had the means to repay- but knew the loopholes and just didn't.

I think you'll find very little sympathy among the general public for easier SL discharge laws.

Far too many still have bitter tastes in their mouthes from the Doctors and Lawyers who discharged their student loans and went on to earn six-figure salaries.

 

 

THANK YOU RADI8!! You wrapped in up in a perfect package!!!!!!

Edited January 13, 2006 by LynnInMN

[ziggypop]

<SNIP> it's former borrowers who had the means to repay- but knew the loopholes and just didn't.

I think you'll find very little sympathy among the general public for easier SL discharge laws.

Far too many still have bitter tastes in their mouthes from the Doctors and Lawyers who discharged their student loans and went on to earn six-figure salaries.

 

That's so true! I am a lawyer (who is making CONSIDERABLY less than six figures!! ) and I graduated not too long after the BK ability went away for SLs. While I was in law school everyone was talking about how it was so sad that they could no longer just BK right after school and be done with their loans -- and these were usually the people going on to work for huge law firms making the six figures RIGHT out of law school, not us poor (literally!) public service shlubs!! They all knew about it and I don't doubt that a good percentage of them would have done it in a minute if they could have. I'll be the first to admit that I screwed up good with my loans, but I really did always know that I'd have to pay them back (and I am now! )!

[radi8]

not us poor (literally!) public service shlubs!!

 

Public Service shlubs have something money can't buy.

Respect.

[centex]

 

not us poor (literally!) public service shlubs!!

 

Public Service shlubs have something money can't buy.

Respect.

 

 

And the ability to leave after many years, only to talk about those public service schlubs

 

You couldn't pay me enough to make it worth going back to the public sector...

[ziggypop]

 

not us poor (literally!) public service shlubs!!

 

Public Service shlubs have something money can't buy.

Respect.

 

Thanks -- I need that on those days when I get the complaints about how all government employees are lazy worthless slobs who are only working for government because they can't find anything else and don't want to have a "real" job (can you tell this was one of those days?!)!

 

 

And the ability to leave after many years, only to talk about those public service schlubs

 

You couldn't pay me enough to make it worth going back to the public sector...

 

There are lots leaving -- probably for the exact reasons you did, centex!! I'm one of the crazy ones who went into private industry for a couple of years and came back!!

[breeze]

Somebody has to do it.

[angeleyeskkhr]

This is NOT a political action site; this is a site designed to assist those with credit problems, including SLs.

 

My patience is wearing thing. VERY thin.

 

Quilty, hopefully I am not wandering where I shouldn't, but...

 

for the OP, the significant distinction is that one type of debt is privately backed while the other is taxpayer backed. Those debts backed by the public should have an inherently higher standard for discharge.

 

And that's all I will opine about that in this forum...

 

 

I completely agree...I personally don't think state/federally funded student loans should be able to be discharged no matter the circumstance SOLELY as long as you qualify for BK...It may be a harsh opinion....but it is what it is...

 

And yes ALL my SL's are the federal stafford loans.

[PinkPeep]

I just LOVE radi8!

[hegemony]

n eduation is for life...it cant be repossed. [/color]

I'm betting you think Christmas is a "waste of time".

yes I do.

[slave]

The student loan bankruptcy law, as currently written, is wrong, draconian, extremely punitive and a gross over-reaction to the abuses of the student loan system that occurred in decades past.

 

They changed the law to make it more difficult to bankrupt your student loans, MUCH MORE DIFFICULT!

 

If the law can be changed that way why can't it be changed the other way?

 

An attitude of "Oh well, we must work within the system" spells misery for thousands of good people.

 

Every day in this country individuals and businesses go bankrupt. Their bankruptcies impact on all of us down the line. Why are the dollars they owe less valuable than the dollars student loan debtors owe?

 

I'm not for running away from debts so save your arguments. I am for hard, FAIR, justice-based solutions that do not grind people in their old age into poverty.

 

If you want to change the laws then see the links I posted earlier. It can be done if we all unite and apply political pressure!

 

Pauper,

 

I would love to see the StudentloanSLAVE site have more dialogue. I wish you would post your thoughts

and opinions there instead of here regarding law changes for student loans. Lets get that site growing!

I believe this site is strictly to help people pay off student loans. I am hoping that the StudentLoanSLAVE

site will become just as popular as this one. Please take your energy and stir up some things there

where you are needed.

 

SLAVE

[radi8]

I believe this site is strictly to help people pay off student loans.

 

 

Just to clarify- In 99.5% of the cases that is the only option under current law.

 

Our mission is to help people better their situation and their lives as quickly as possible. That means using the existing laws, and enforcing what exists right now when collectors play out of bounds.

 

It's not that discussions about changing the laws aren't welcome here- they are. However providing advice that will work for the consumer-now-today- under the laws we have to deal with today, will remain our primary goal.

 

We don't often suggest BK'ing student loans to people unless it appears that they meet the very limited criteria where such an approach would be successful. It's not a matter of siding with the feds or having a collector mentality as suggested previously.

It's simply a matter of suggesting things that will work- today- and for most people under today's laws, that just isn't a possibility.

If you want to discuss the fairness or unfairness of it- that's fine. You'll find folk on both sides of that discussion, I'm certain.

But in the meantime, please don't confuse our focus on immediate options as anything other than what it is.

 

The reason Breezie posted the links to the related forums is so that those interested in working in that direction, changing the laws that apply, can join in where such discussion is already in progress should they care to do so.

Edited January 14, 2006 by radi8