Build a better DV letter

[StupidCredit]

Sounds like a TV show right?

 

I see a lot of threads being started asking for sample DVs and to critique DVs about to be sent. The sample letters database has quite a few, but no one has posted a thing in there since March. Some of those letters are up to two years old.

 

My goal with this thread is to take you step by step through building a mousetrap... err DV letter to send out using the FDCPA and the legal system as our guide.

 

So now, ladies and gentlemen, it is DV Time. Are you ready for DV Time?! (apologies to Fats Gonder).

 

The first part of the DV letter is simple so I'll skip over it mostly. You have your name and address at the top of the letter aka your header followed by the name and address of who you are sending the letter to. Okay we got that out of the way.

 

Next is VERY important. The DATE you are sending the letter. You may need the date you sent a letter later in court to prove certain claims. I date my letters by when I expect to send the letter and I send it that day. If I typed a letter on the 5th and was going to be sending mail the 6th, I date it the 6th.

If you don't put a date on your letter, you might as well not send the letter.

 

After that a line such as:

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED #7004 2890 0002 9733 1234

 

All this is done for proof. Have a signed and dated green card with matched up tracking numbers appearing on the letter? Kind of hard to refute that the letter was received don't you think? You are all sending CMRRR and saving the green cards right? You better be.

 

Finally, the last bit before we actually get to the letter contents. Why are you sending this letter? In response to a phone call? A letter you received?

 

Re: Letter of October 1, 2005

Re: acct#12345-678-9-0

etc etc

 

My first few lines establish whatever facts I want established. The recepient has a duty to refuse whatever facts in my letter they don't agree with. If they don't now, doing so in court later could be difficult.

 

"I am in receipt of your letter dated October 1, 2005 (copy enclosed). According to the post office mark, this letter was sent October 3, 2005 and I received it October 5, 2005."

 

I just established when my thirty day window date begins. I received the letter on October 5th. I now have thirty days from then to send my DV letter. I always save envelopes since the dates on there are important. Never rely on just their information. What if they dated a letter September 15th and didn't send it til October 1st? If you rely on their September 15 date, you might have a problem proving you sent a letter within the thirty days provided for in the FDCPA. Save the envelopes. I even send copies of the envelope with the postmark with the DV letter.

 

Now we got that out of the way. Let's turn our attention to the FDCPA for a moment.

 

(a)  Notice of debt; contents

Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing—

(1) the amount of the debt;

(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;

(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;

(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and

(5) a statement that, upon the consumer’s written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.

( Disputed debts

If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

© Admission of liability

The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.

 

1692g spells out how we are to dispute claims by CAs. We notify the CA in writing that the debt or a portion is disputed. Nowhere in the FDCPA does it state that you must request validation or verification or copies of contracts or prove the statute of limitations has expired. In fact, you can't even really request either. Well you can, but they are under no obligation to provide it in most circumstances. You tell them the debt is disputed then they must obtain verification from the creditor. Obtaining and sending a copy of the verification to the consumer is part of proper validation.

 

With that in mind we continue with our sample DV.

 

"This letter serves as constructive notice that I dispute the claims of your October 1 letter in their entirety."

 

That's it. Legally the ball is in their court. Now if your dispute comes within thirty days of their initial contact with you, they must now cease collection activity until they provide copies of the verifcation to you by mail. They can't fax it. They can't call you on the telephone with it. They can't tell the creditor to mail it to you. The CA must send a copy (that they obtained from the creditor) to you via mail.

 

If you have specific reasons for a dispute off the bat, you can use them.

 

"This debt was paid to the original creditor on April 1, 2005."

"I have written no checks to Wal-Mart."

"Jimmy Hoffa is not buried under my house."

 

There's no need for any C&D language if you disputed within thirty days. They can't attempt to collect on the debt again. What's more, it must come through the mail. Therefore telling them at this stage to only contact you via mail would be redundant. Based on some of the phrasings I've seen of DVs posted, they could be confused as a full C&D also which you probably don't want.

 

What if you want to include a limited C&D? What if they were calling you at work and you want that to stop after they provide copies of verification?

 

(a)  Communication with the consumer generally

Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt—

(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o’clock antemeridian and before 9 o’clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer’s location;

(2) if the debt collector knows the consumer is represented by an attorney with respect to such debt and has knowledge of, or can readily ascertain, such attorney’s name and address, unless the attorney fails to respond within a reasonable period of time to a communication from the debt collector or unless the attorney consents to direct communication with the consumer; or

(3) at the consumer’s place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer’s employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.

 

Again, the statute spells out exactly how to stop this.

You can

a) hire an attorney and they can only contact him after they are notified.

make them know contacting you at certain times and places are inconvenient.

c) tell them calls to your place of employment are prohibited.

 

"It is inconvenient for you to contact me by phone at any time or place. Communication with me through my workplace is prohibited."

 

Notice I use the words from 1692c "inconvenient" and "prohibited". There can be no doubt what your intentions are. Don't call me, don't contact my employer.

 

If you are dealing with a debt that has passed the SOLC of your state AND has passed the time limit on reporting AND you don't want to toy with them to rack up a paycheck, send them a full C&D and skip the dispute portions.

 

©  Ceasing communication

If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except—

(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector’s further efforts are being terminated;

(2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or

(3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy.

If such notice from the consumer is made by mail, notification shall be complete upon receipt.

 

"The statute of limitations in my state has passed for you to collect this debt. I refuse to acknowledge or pay this debt."

 

Again, using the word spelled out in the statute, "refuse".

 

That's ALL you need for your initial DV.

 

One thing you can add is notice that if they call you WILL record the call. You might want to double check your state statutes (if you are in a two party state) to see what is required for consent to record calls. Also check the state statutes for the state they are calling you from.

 

And without further ado, the DV in its entirety without commercial interruption.

Your address block

Addressee address block

date
Re: subject matter

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED #7004 2890 0002 9733 1234

To whom it may concern:

I am in receipt of your letter dated October 1, 2005 (copy enclosed).  According to the post office mark, this letter was sent October 3, 2005 and I received it October 5, 2005.

This letter serves as constructive notice that I dispute the claims of your October 1 letter in their entirety.

Also, it is inconvenient for you to contact me by phone at any time or place.  Communication with me through my workplace is prohibited.

Sincerely,

StupidCredit

 

There has been some debate going on whether you should sign your DVs or not. The issue has been raised that a letter unsigned by you can be thrown out of court by an alert attorney under the Federal Rules of Evidence. No letter = no evidence of your claim. I sign mine. Any CA is welcome to attempt to forge my signature. I'm sure they will LOVE the FBI coming down and investigating my forgery complaint. However, you are free to do whatever you want with yours, I'm not going to recommend you do one thing or the other.

Edited October 5, 2005 by StupidCredit

[moacsupreme]

I like it, good simple DV letter. This should help a lot of people out when composing their own letters, and cut out on the use of form letters for DV purposes.

[breck]

Thats a great tutorial SC...Good Job.

[dubzero]

Yeah, ditto on the great post/tutorial/letter. I've always loved the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) approach...pun intended, of course!!

 

Seriously though, nicely done and thanks.

[Cloak&Dagger]

Good job SC.

[AAA]

Yeah, ditto on the great post/tutorial/letter.  I've always loved the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) approach...pun intended, of course!!

 

Seriously though, nicely done and thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey that was directed at me. Besides I thought it was to be Keep It Short and Simple.

 

 

ETA of course I didn't follow that advice (probably should have) and sent 7 page letters. I bored the CA's to death and they gave up.

Edited October 5, 2005 by AAAAngels2003

[jimbob]

Excellent summary.

I agree, keep it short.

[tal]

Excellent post, A huge thank you stupidcredit! Can this be pinned for better reference please?

[samie100000]

Thanks for breakin it down!!.. this makes life so much easier

[psp]

I think you're gonna have to change your name, SC

[BlueGhost]

As For "signing" the letter...

 

Maybe even doing a simple" Cursive Initials type of Sig would/could work.

 

BG

[StupidCredit]

As For "signing" the letter...

 

Maybe even doing  a simple" Cursive Initials type of Sig would/could work.

 

BG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The UCC says that a signature is any mark made with the intent of the mark being taken as your signature.

[rkegal2005]

SC, this is awesome. I am going through my first and HOPEFULLY last DV situation. This REALLY helps me alot.

 

I appreciate you taking so much time to put this together!

[dubzero]

Besides I thought it was to be Keep It Short and Simple.

Sure, unless you're in the military, then it's a bit more harsh!!!

[Ace_TX]

thanks homie...

[IAmMyKidzMom]

Concerning the signature part....

 

At first I just typed my name in the same font as the letter. Now I use the script cursive looking font for my name.

 

Many of the letters from CA's I've received are either unsigned or this script font.

 

Great Job, SupidCredit!!!

[IAmMyKidzMom]

Stupid Credit,

 

I appreciate your post. Now, what are your thoughts/suggestions on a DV2, especially in the following circumstances:

 

a ) after no response at all to 1st DV

 

b ) when they have not responded at all and 1st DV WAS within the first 30 days of their letter BUT they are already violating (continuing to call, send letters, verifying/updating credit report) -- in other words, let them know of violations now or wait and let them rack up even more?

 

c ) when their response is not or not complete validation (computer printout, etc.)

 

 

Thanks!

 

I'm getting ready to send DV2 the end of this week for circumstance b above but they are not currently reporting -- was planning on sending a strongly worded DV that included the declaration page and not letting them know they are violating yet.

Edited October 5, 2005 by IAmMyKidzMom

[nearly_there]

I put:

 

SIGNED ORIGINAL ON FILE

 

 

If anything. It's total BS that because you didn't sign something it wouldn't count for evidence. Lawyers do this all the time, ie, not sign things.

 

Here's an example:

 

A debt collector sends you a letter and they violate galore. Since they didn't sign it, does this mean that the letter just "doesn't count"?

 

I think not.

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=116071

Edited October 5, 2005 by nearly_there

[StupidCredit]

Stupid Credit,

 

I appreciate your post.  Now, what are your thoughts/suggestions on a DV2, especially in the following circumstances:

 

a ) after no response at all to 1st DV

 

b ) when they have not responded at all and 1st DV WAS within the first 30 days of their letter BUT they are already violating (continuing to call, send letters, verifying/updating credit report) -- in other words, let them know of violations now or wait and let them rack up even more?

 

c ) when their response is not or not complete validation (computer printout, etc.)

It depends.

If the dispute was timely (like , and they have called multiple times and sent multiple letters, I'd just be smiling and keeping records. I'd answer the phone and record the conversation. "Hi, did you get my October 5th letter? Yes? Okay goodbye."

 

After about thirty days from the time they got your first letter, send a follow up with a detailed log of phone calls, phone conversations and letters. Spell out every violation. Send copies to officers of the company, bonding agents and whoever else you want to. At the very least, demand they eat the debt in return for you not filing suit against them. Get an agreement not to re-sell/re-assign and to cease collections permanently.

 

Scenario b is a dream case for you really.

 

I plan on doing another post like this one for scenario c.

 

I'm getting ready to send DV2 the end of this week for circumstance b above but they are not currently reporting -- was planning on sending a strongly worded DV that included the declaration page and not letting them know they are violating yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMO, there's no need to string them along if they've sent multiple letters and made multiple calls attempting collections assuming you've kept a nice log of phone calls like I suggested above. Try to get them on the phone admitting they got your (insert date here) letter. Heck, based on the way you spelled it out, they will most likely violate 1692d,e and f multiple times during a phone call.

Of course, the phone is not for everyone.

Edited October 5, 2005 by StupidCredit

[rkegal2005]

So, where does it say that they have to mark the CRA acct as "in dispute"? Also, where does it state that they are not allowed to verify with the CRA once they have been notified that the debt is disputed?

 

I have a CA that has not responded to my original DV letter. I disputed with the CRAs but they have not marked as "disputed". However, they have 1 1/2 weeks left in the 30 day dispute period. I sent a second DV letter today with a copy of the original.

 

I want to go ahead and draw up a letter because I am sure that they will verify with the CRA but I'm looking for the specific code that states the "rules" for marking as disputed and not verifying.

 

What have you guys (and gals) used in this situation?

 

 

Lastly, (seperate CA) what if you did not respond within 30 days of their initial communication? I still sent a DV letter....but what are the "rules" in this situation? Do they still have to mark as disputed? Can they still verify with the CRA?

 

Thanks in advance!

[StupidCredit]

So, where does it say that they have to mark the CRA acct as "in dispute"? Also, where does it state that they are not allowed to verify with the CRA once they have been notified that the debt is disputed?

 

(8) Communicating or threatening to communicate to any person credit information which is known or which should be known to be false, including the failure to communicate that a disputed debt is disputed.

It's also in the FCRA, but it's not actionably by the consumer. However, send all such allegations to the FTC.

 

I have a CA that has not responded to my original DV letter. I disputed with the CRAs but they have not marked as "disputed". However, they have 1 1/2 weeks left in the 30 day dispute period. I sent a second DV letter today with a copy of the original.

There is no official time limit of WHEN they have to mark as disputed. However, if they communicate any information to the CRAs (update information, verify dispute), they must communicate that the debt is disputed.

 

Lastly, (seperate CA) what if you did not respond within 30 days of their initial communication? I still sent a DV letter....but what are the "rules" in this situation? Do they still have to mark as disputed? Can they still verify with the CRA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1692e still applies whether or not the dispute was timely. Timely only applies to 1692g and whether or not the CA must cease collection of the debt.

[bahasibs]

SC, you are so amazing. And timely. Thank you tons for your help with DV letters. You rock. And your letter does, too.

[asm]

Excellent post and I thank you for it. I am currently in the process of writing my first letter and this has been a huge help!

 

RE: signatures on letters. I don't think I will sign mine, simply because the letter I recieved didn't have a signature on it. If they don't have to sign to be valid, I shouldn't either.

[StupidCredit]

RE: signatures on letters.  I don't think I will sign mine, simply because the letter I recieved didn't have a signature on it.  If they don't have to sign to be valid, I shouldn't either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laws governing corporations are different than laws governing people many times.

 

For example, corporations are allowed to deduct business expenses from their pre-tax earnings, people can not.

[Thaiphoon]

Be careful with signature though. Where my wife works (she works as a Project Manager in IT and works directly for the CIO) she has had the CIO's signature copied onto clear film so that when expense reports come around and he is too busy to sign but has authorized her to sign and fax she simply takes his "signature" out of an envelope and places it in the appropriate place and noone can tell by fax or copy that the signature was not actually written out for that report.

 

Be careful. Not saying CA's are smart enough to do this but I wouldn't put anything passed them.