Foot Locker asked for my ID

[MB82x]

So I was committing FRAUD when I bought $1,500 on a WALMART GIFT CARD with AMEX DELTA

 

(not recently since I no longer have the card since I was AMEXED)

 

Did I say you were comitting fraud?

 

I said that transactions like that are high risk of being fraud. Stolen credit cards typically hold value for less than two hours before the legit cardholder realizes it's gone and has it turned off and reported stolen. Credit card thieves don't have time to "shop around". Cash in first, buy later.

[GEORGE]

Why do some people act like a LOST/STOLEN card can be used for months???

[Grizzly Bear]

MB82X, What is the name and address of your business?

Edited November 26, 2009 by Grizzly Bear

[MB82x]

Who wants to know?

[GEORGE]

I can visit BOS on a stop-over to BGR this summer

 

Then I can show you the POLICY to your face

 

Then I can buy you a steak lunch and use my SIGNED CREDIT CARD AND NOT SHOW ID

Edited November 26, 2009 by GEORGE

[MB82x]

I explained my reasoning several times now. Now explain yours, please.

 

Is it the principle of the agreement? Fear of identity theft? Not wanting to dig through your wallet?

 

Honestly, I'd be pissed too if I was ID'd for a sandwich, candy bar or a pizza - but I completely understand when I get ID'd for a video game system, a few CDs, a bunch of new clothing or electronics... anything expensive and "impulsive".

[GEORGE]

I explained my reasoning several times now. Now explain yours, please.

 

Is it the principle of the agreement? Fear of identity theft? Not wanting to dig through your wallet?

 

Honestly, I'd be pissed too if I was ID'd for a sandwich, candy bar or a pizza - but I completely understand when I get ID'd for a video game system, a few CDs, a bunch of new clothing or electronics... anything expensive and "impulsive".

CREDIT CARD POLICY VIOLATION

 

WHO ARE THEY (REALLY) PROTECTING

 

MY LICENSE TO DRIVE A CAR or TRUCK WAS NEVER INTENDED AS A PERMIT TO USE A SIGNED CREDIT CARD

 

DOES THE CASHIER REALLY NEED TO KNOW MY ADDRESS

 

...DOB...HAIR COLOR...WEIGHT...HEIGHT...EYE COLOR...CITY...STATE...ZIP CODE...LICENSE NUMBER

 

MY LICENSE TO DRIVE WAS SIGNED MORE THAN 15 YEARS AGO SO THE SIGNATURE DOES NOT MATCH ANY CARD SIGNATURE IN MY WALLET

 

USING A CREDIT CARD WAS INTRODUCED TO SAVE TIME OVER CASH/CHECK...MAKING ME SHOW ID REDUCES THE TIME SAVINGS

 

(possibly totally eliminates time savings and makes it even longer than cash/check)

 

...ESPECIALLY WHEN MY LICENSE TO DRIVE IS IN THE CAR/TRUCK/STILL AT HOME

Edited November 26, 2009 by GEORGE

[GEORGE]

...they may even have access to

counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting.

 

Direct from VISA USA credit card policy

[GEORGE]

I have told this story before

 

You are in line with your 15 year old HOTTIE DAUGHTER and the 30 year old cashier takes an instant attraction to your daughter

 

You gave him your address (YOUR LICENSE)

 

He shows up on your porch one day looking to see your daughter and ask her out on a date

 

**NOT THAT ALL 30 YEAR OLD CASHIERS ARE OUT TO ASK YOUR 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS OUT ON A DATE**

[Uncle Leo]

I explained my reasoning several times now. Now explain yours, please.

 

Is it the principle of the agreement? Fear of identity theft? Not wanting to dig through your wallet?

 

Honestly, I'd be pissed too if I was ID'd for a sandwich, candy bar or a pizza - but I completely understand when I get ID'd for a video game system, a few CDs, a bunch of new clothing or electronics... anything expensive and "impulsive".

Yes, you explained your reason(s), but why do you feel it is acceptable to cherry-pick which otherwise legal agreements you are willing to abide by and those which you feel it is necessary to ignore. When you got and used the card... or chose to accept the card in the case of a business... you agreed to follow the rules. Period.

[MB82x]

Yes, you explained your reason(s), but why do you feel it is acceptable to cherry-pick which otherwise legal agreements you are willing to abide by and those which you feel it is necessary to ignore. When you got and used the card... or chose to accept the card in the case of a business... you agreed to follow the rules. Period.

 

The fraud in regards to the Visa Gift Cards got so out of hand we (store management) had to make a choice.

 

1: Refuse all credit transactions for gift cards.

 

2: Require photo ID for credit transactions for gift cards.

 

Refusing all credit transactions for gift cards would be highly inconvenient for our customer base, so we went with #2.

 

I'll care about the VISA/MC "rules" when they're either enforced or my bosses tell me to start caring about them.

[MB82x]

...also, if the policy did get enforced, I'd just change our policy to require ID for all purchases of gift cards over $100. That way we're not singling out Visa/MC customers.

 

I have zero tolerance for thieves and druggies (who attempt most of the fraud to begin with).

[thelowpriceleader]

MB does not seem to know what a code 10 call is. It is not his job to ask for ID and stop the fraud at that second in his store. It is his job to make a Code 10 call when he suspects fraud and report this suspected fraud to potentially get the card shut off so that card can't be used anywhere. MB is very lazy. Rather than doing a Code 10 call to properly investigate the suspicious fraud and possibly get the card shut off (and get a $50 reward for capturing the card), MB just requires ID, violates the network rules and risks that nasty $2,500 per day fine from MasterCard and $5,000 for the first violation fine from Visa. If thelowpriceleader ever visits MB's store and observes this policy, there will be violation reports filed. I am familiar with the credit card acceptance policies for all drugstore chains where I am led to believe MB works and MB is violating each of the chain's corporate polices. MB then hopes his store does not have to absorb any fraud, but has really done nothing to prevent the fraud from happening. MB just sends the fraud to some other store down the road.

 

Giving employees like MB power to make policies without proper training is a real risk that some businesses take, however, their actions will be corrected in time.

[LBCS]

MB does not seem to know what a code 10 call is. It is not his job to ask for ID and stop the fraud at that second in his store. It is his job to make a Code 10 call when he suspects fraud and report this suspected fraud to potentially get the card shut off so that card can't be used anywhere. MB is very lazy. Rather than doing a Code 10 call to properly investigate the suspicious fraud and possibly get the card shut off (and get a $50 reward for capturing the card), MB just requires ID, violates the network rules and risks that nasty $2,500 per day fine from MasterCard and $5,000 for the first violation fine from Visa. If thelowpriceleader ever visits MB's store and observes this policy, there will be violation reports filed. I am familiar with the credit card acceptance policies for all drugstore chains where I am led to believe MB works and MB is violating each of the chain's corporate polices. MB then hopes his store does not have to absorb any fraud, but has really done nothing to prevent the fraud from happening. MB just sends the fraud to some other store down the road.

 

Giving employees like MB power to make policies without proper training is a real risk that some businesses take, however, their actions will be corrected in time.

 

Crappy employers attract incompetent employees. And crap like this happens.

[breeze]

easy there. kind of an implied insult? That's not a debate technique.

[LBCS]

easy there. kind of an implied insult? That's not a debate technique.

 

You're smart :-)

 

Happy Turkey Day, Breeze.

[breeze]

Happy turkey to you and yours!

[BBQ123]

Yes, you explained your reason(s), but why do you feel it is acceptable to cherry-pick which otherwise legal agreements you are willing to abide by and those which you feel it is necessary to ignore. When you got and used the card... or chose to accept the card in the case of a business... you agreed to follow the rules. Period.

 

The fraud in regards to the Visa Gift Cards got so out of hand we (store management) had to make a choice.

 

1: Refuse all credit transactions for gift cards.

 

2: Require photo ID for credit transactions for gift cards.

 

Refusing all credit transactions for gift cards would be highly inconvenient for our customer base, so we went with #2.

 

I'll care about the VISA/MC "rules" when they're either enforced or my bosses tell me to start caring about them.

 

Both options are against the rules.

 

...also, if the policy did get enforced, I'd just change our policy to require ID for all purchases of gift cards over $100. That way we're not singling out Visa/MC customers.

 

I have zero tolerance for thieves and druggies (who attempt most of the fraud to begin with).

 

Still against the rules.

[Uncle Leo]

Yes, you explained your reason(s), but why do you feel it is acceptable to cherry-pick which otherwise legal agreements you are willing to abide by and those which you feel it is necessary to ignore. When you got and used the card... or chose to accept the card in the case of a business... you agreed to follow the rules. Period.

The fraud in regards to the Visa Gift Cards got so out of hand we (store management) had to make a choice.

 

1: Refuse all credit transactions for gift cards.

 

2: Require photo ID for credit transactions for gift cards.

 

Refusing all credit transactions for gift cards would be highly inconvenient for our customer base, so we went with #2.

 

I'll care about the VISA/MC "rules" when they're either enforced or my bosses tell me to start caring about them.

...also, if the policy did get enforced, I'd just change our policy to require ID for all purchases of gift cards over $100. That way we're not singling out Visa/MC customers.

 

I have zero tolerance for thieves and druggies (who attempt most of the fraud to begin with).

As BBQ points out, your alternatives are still against the rules.

 

I hate thieves as much as you do, but I also hate hypocrisy and arrogance almost as much. By picking and choosing which rules to honor, you're essentially picking which rules to break... just as a thief does. Hypocrisy 101. As much as I don't want thieves to win, I'm beginning to hope that you and/or your employer get caught and stuck with some stiff penalties.

[MB82x]

By picking and choosing which rules to honor, you're essentially picking which rules to break... just as a thief does.

 

Except I'm not costing anyone anything, except a couple of seconds.

 

I've seen customer almost loose their housing because a druggie used their debit card as credit and cleaned them out of their rent money.

 

I've seen students panic because they were suddenly stranded hundreds of miles away from home with no cash.

 

I've also had a couple of people arrested because I caught them using credit cards of customers I know by name. Guess that makes me lucky they didn't know about the Visa/MC policies.

 

99.99% of people understand the need to ask for ID. I've never had anyone complain about ID for high credit purchases. I've actually had several people THANK me. People only get upset over being carded for cigarettes, cough syrup, OTC pain killers and psuedophedrine.

 

Again - my company does not train us to follow Visa/MC policies, and before I saw this thread, I never new this rule existed.

 

My previous company did not train us to follow the policies either. Or the one before that.

 

Now, keep in mind that merchants do have the right to ASK for ID, but not require it. A good 80-90% of thieves "go to their car" to get it, but never come back. That's a lot of deterent right there. When possible, I make note of the name on the card, and the company. I search for the customer service number, and ask them to investigate.

 

"Code 10 call", which I also never heard of - seems like a good "second resort" if a customer chooses not to show ID. Presenting ID is simply faster and more efficent for both customers and employees. Unfortunately I don't have those phone numbers. If I did, I'd still ask for ID first. I've been prompted to call American Express before for certain transactions (usually tourists, far from home). It's a lengthy process (customer needs to answer questions on the phone), and most people probably wouldn't want to deal with it, plus if the store is busy, it can inconvenience other customers by creating a backup.

 

My view right now is that I have saved several customers hundreds of dollars, had thieves put in jail, have had zero complaints from my customers in the process and even had one bake me brownies as a thanks for "catching" someone using her credit card (this wasn't an ID situation, I asked them how they knew the legit cardholder, he lied and said she was his mother, I confiscated the card and returned it to the rightful owner).

 

Perhaps if someone can better explain "code 10 calls" a bit more in detail, provide information on them, or offer alternatives, that'd be helpful. I train most of our staff, and train people at other stores on how to train their staff. Unfortunately, I can only train people what I have been trained myself.

 

I'm open to listening to alternatives, but letting thieves take money that belongs to someone else isn't one of them.

 

Really, I'm not a jerk, and I can see that it can be a useful policy... IDing someone for a sandwich is just being a jerk. I also find it highly frustrating that people don't seem to understand that this policy can be highly damaging to consumers, specifically if it's a debit card with a visa/mc logo.

 

As a consumer, I find it kind of scary that anyone could walk into a store with my debit or credit card and buy thousands of dollars worth of stuff without showing an ID.

 

Just some food for thought and questions...

 

1: Customer loses credit card, it's not signed. Thief signs the credit card and now his signature will match when the cashier tries to match signatures. Thoughts?

 

2: I've been ID'd for low purchases with a credit card. The cashier stated this is because the back of my card is not signed. Violation? (Not mad, just curious.)

 

3: When checking an ID to verify credit card ownership, I'm only interested in matching the name to the credit card and the face to the person holding the ID. I do not expect, or request address, license number or any other sensitive information.

 

4: I wish more credit cards offered, and more people utilized, photos of themself on their credit cards.

[thelowpriceleader]

MB I think you need to look in your company's operating materials and training guides and review these topics in more detail. You will be able to find the answers to many of your questions there.

 

And the Code 10 call is supposed to be your first resort when you suspect fraud. Asking for ID is not part of the deal. Immediately making the code 10 call is to be your first step. The code 10 call is a call for authorization when you suspect fraud with a transaction. People can obtain fake ID too.

 

Also, the back of the credit card must be signed in order to be valid. Unsigned credit cards and cards that say "See id" on the back are invalid and the merchant is not supposed to even accept them unless the customer will sign the card and show ID so you can match what they write on the back of the card to their ID (this is a one time ID check).

 

Also, as a cardholder you are required to sign the back of your card. By not signing the back of your card, you are risking liability for any fraud that takes place should your card become stolen. Part of your cardholder's agreement is to sign your card upon activation and prior to use.

 

You actually haven't saved customers a dime by asking for ID and catching people using stolen cards. Customers have no fraud liability. You also haven't saved your store a dime. If you follow the proper procedures in processing the transaction (this means you match the signatures on the card and receipt/screen and verify the card numbers printed on the receipt against the card numbers embossed on the card swiped) and then submit the copy of the sales draft within the required time period, your store is still paid in the event of fraud.

 

Don't get me wrong, you need to pay attention to these transactions and identify the areas where fraud takes place and look at ways to address the fraud issue. However, you need to follow the rules set forth by the credit card networks in doing so. You are now aware of the rules, so there is no excuse for any deviation. This means you stop accepting unsigned cards. This means you make that Code 10 Call when someone comes through with $500 of gift cards or wants 10 cartons of cigarettes. This means you do compare the signature on the back of the card with what is signed by the customer. This does not mean you require ID.

Edited November 27, 2009 by thelowpriceleader

[GEORGE]

NO ID ON SIGNED CARD

 

Thank you

 

You want to violate...you WILL be reported

 

Just because they "ACT" like it is no big deal...they can still report you after they get home

[Grizzly Bear]

MB82x-

 

Here are a couple of things to ponder.

 

1) Checking ID has little or no effect on deterring fraud. This is because a thief can simply move on to the the next business and max out a card in short order, unless you you confiscate the card. And if you confiscate the card from the legitimate owner who refuses to show ID, then you are guilty of theft.

 

2) When you say 99.99% of people don't have a problem with it, you have no hard facts to base that number on. 99.99% of the population does not agree on virtually anything, and the number you throw out is just wishful thinking. ID is actually quite controversial and has been the subject of blogs, several news reports, and recently a tv commercial (for Identity Guard and they don't portray it favorably). If you alienate as few as 5% of your customers over this, that is huge to your store's bottom line.

 

3) Much of why MC and Visa rules don't get enforced is because most people who have a problem with your policy are not aware that requiring ID is prohibited and think that they have no recourse other than to shop where they are treated with more respect.

 

4) Just because you don't view an ID request as disrespectful doesn't mean that many of your customers feel the same way.

[improper_validation]

I once got refused because a cashier knew me by name.

 

"This is DWs card, not your card, do you have yours?"

 

WTF lady, just process the transaction, DW wanted to pay for this, I'll sign her name...

[Uncle Leo]

I once got refused because a cashier knew me by name.

 

"This is DWs card, not your card, do you have yours?"

 

WTF lady, just process the transaction, DW wanted to pay for this, I'll sign her name...

No offense intended, and I have no doubt your actions and intentions were above board, but this is exactly why I'd prefer to see signature transactions replaced with PINs or some other less ridiculously easy to thwart method of ID verification.