PsychDoc's seminar transcript #2

[breeze]

LESSON TWO TRANSCRIPT

CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, 9/22/2005

PSYCHDOC'S CREDIT REPAIR SCHOOL FOR BEGINNERS

 

PsychDoc> Hi

 

tomurphjr> Hello

 

ismism> hello all

 

tomurphjr> hello ismism

 

IDare> howdy

 

stevenassco> as kim jong-il would say

 

PsychDoc> LOL

 

stevenassco> hirrroo

 

PsychDoc> We'll start a few minutes after 7...

 

PsychDoc> give stragglers a chance to straggle

 

ismism> you got that magic mirror doc?

 

PsychDoc> which of course is unfair to those for whom straggling would be viewed as a reprehensible endeavor.

 

PsychDoc> But still.

 

PsychDoc> ismism, lol

 

phnominon> CSI season premiere is on tonight doc, I love credit boards that much

 

PsychDoc> Oh lordie...

 

PsychDoc> do you have TiVO?

 

ismism> thoses are real big word there doc

 

phnominon> lol.. cant afford tivo

 

richandpoor> Hiyas Doc

 

PsychDoc> Tivo's gotten expensive.

 

ismism> im a product of the nyc board of ed ok

 

IDare> lol ism

 

PsychDoc> Hey rich

 

PsychDoc> I'll dumb it down just for you, ism.

 

ismism> thanks pal

 

ismism> lol

 

PsychDoc> anytime

 

PsychDoc> bud

 

PsychDoc> I use to work with a guy who always called me "cowboy"

 

PsychDoc> I don't look like a cowboy.

 

ismism> on a good note ive had succses with a validation letter

 

PsychDoc> "Say, cowboy, how's it going?"

 

richandpoor> lol

 

PsychDoc> very good, ism

 

ismism> tyty

 

richandpoor> hiyas LKH

 

PsychDoc> did they remove the tradeline, forgive the debt, or both?

 

sweetmotions> Good evening

 

LKH> Hi everyone.

 

LKH> Hey doc

 

Anarone> hi

 

PsychDoc> hi LKH!

 

IDare>

 

tomurphjr> Hi

 

LKH> Hi IDare

 

ismism> going to delet the tl

 

PsychDoc> ism: great!

 

PsychDoc> we'll start in two minutes

 

ismism> the ca was park dansan

 

PsychDoc> aha

 

ismism> the acct was mci

 

IDare> validation letters have worked well for me, but so did the first letter i sent, pre-CB, that was.... unclassified, lol

 

PsychDoc> You gotta feel sorry (well, maybe not) for the CAs who bought up MCI Worldcom's bad debt. What a business.

 

ismism> i wish i knew this stuff 3yrs ago

 

stevenassco> i hear you

 

PsychDoc> Maybe they acquired that stuff for a half cent on the dollar.

 

richandpoor> i wish i knew it 6 mos ago!@!@

 

tomurphjr> What ever happened to MCI?

 

ismism> thank god were here now

 

tomurphjr> Never hear much about them anymore

 

stevenassco> they to promote classes in college on the 1 - 2 punch!

 

PsychDoc> They dropped the "Worldcom" part of their name, entered bankruptcy, and are still in business.

 

ismism> i thank god for you doc

 

PsychDoc> Goodness.

 

PsychDoc> I wish my wife felt that way.

 

tomurphjr> oh okay, thanks Doc

 

IDare> lol

 

PsychDoc> Ok, well, hi to those who just entered the room. I'm Randy Padawer (PsychDoc)... It's good to see some participants from last week and some new ones too.

 

ridgefire> Wow do some work and come back and the place is full

 

richandpoor> they were robbed by the execs and bought back for pennies on the dollar

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, 9/22/2005

 

richandpoor> the wallstreet shuffle

 

PsychDoc> Before we begin, I'd like to thank those who invited me to facilitate this course -- breeze, Pam, LKH, and radi8. They founded Creditboards.com, and I think it's fair to say that this site changes peoples lives for the better every single day.

 

cadicae> Hi!

 

PsychDoc> (They're the ones who deserve the accolades, ism, lol)

 

PsychDoc> Well, once again, I'd like to review how this course will proceed.

 

PsychDoc> There will be 8 sessions every other Thursday evening, including tonight's. Each session will begin at 9 p.m. Eastern Time (or 8 p.m. Central, 7 p.m. Mountain, 6 p.m. Pacific) and will last about an hour.

 

PsychDoc> We may finish early, or we may finish late. Some may want to stay longer even after the session's done to chat. We'll have a mix of lecture, group discussion, and Q&A.

 

PsychDoc> The 8 sessions are:

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 101: The Ethics of Credit Repair, 9/8/2005 (two weeks ago)

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, (tonight)

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores, 10/6/2005

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 104: Triaging Your Reports, 10/20, 2005

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting, 11/3/2005

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting, 11/17/2005

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting, 12/1/2005

 

PsychDoc> and

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 108: Fighting With LKH

 

PsychDoc> (sorry)

 

richandpoor> My volumn isn't working

 

IDare> ROFL

 

PsychDoc> CREDIT 108: Small Claims Lawsuits, 12/15/2005

 

tomurphjr> LOL

 

PsychDoc> (he'll kick me soon)

 

PsychDoc> For those who have just joined us, I should mention that the 8 lessons are divided into two sections...

 

PsychDoc> the first three lessons (where credit repair is framed as an ETHICAL enterprise in opposition to the many UNETHICAL business practices which comprise the consumer credit industry)...

 

PsychDoc> and the last five sessions (where we discuss the nitty-gritty of credit repair -- interventions which leverage your RIGHTS as a citizen).

 

PsychDoc> Like last session, I hope we'll all learn something new, but I especially hope that those who are new to their credit repair campaigns come away from these sessions with something that will contribute to their eventual success.

 

PsychDoc> Tonight's syllabus...

 

PsychDoc> -1-- Course overview and format (which we've already done)

 

PsychDoc> -2-- Brief review of the last session

 

PsychDoc> -3-- "Three Musts" for beginners

 

PsychDoc> -4-- The laws we reference

 

PsychDoc> -5-- How to invent credit repair interventions

 

PsychDoc> Ok, any questions about course format or the syllabus before we jump in?

 

PsychDoc>

 

alkascan> Type here

 

Savantrice> not yet...

 

PsychDoc> Ok, well, to assist those who weren't here for the first session, I'd like to open this up for discussion briefly... Who remembers the main messages from that session?

 

cadicae> Nope - let's go!

 

PsychDoc> There were a couple.

 

sweetmotions> have a goal

 

ismism> never lie

 

PsychDoc> very good

 

alkascan> Do We have Sound ?

 

richandpoor> you defined intervention

 

PsychDoc> (I don't have sound)

 

PsychDoc> right...

 

PsychDoc> Know what you're going for.

 

alkascan> Thanks

 

PsychDoc> Tell the truth.

 

richandpoor> you hammered truth

 

PsychDoc> One doesn't have to lie in order to do this.

 

dubzero> be polite

 

PsychDoc> Basically... the first message... Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests, b} requests for information, and c) legal demands.

 

PsychDoc> dubzero... just a quick note for those who weren't here before

 

PsychDoc> being polite doesn't necessarily mean being solicitous

 

PsychDoc> or kissing someone's behind

 

PsychDoc> essentially it means that a calm legal-based approach can be far more effective than

 

PsychDoc> a bunch of screaming and yelling

 

PsychDoc> someone who calmly demands that the other party comply with federal law

 

dubzero> right, just state your request and legal backup "matter-of-factly", right?

 

PsychDoc> is going to be far more of a threat than someone who thinks they're going to get great results by trying to intimidate the other side

 

richandpoor> true, true, and its even better if you know your audience...

 

PsychDoc> very true, dub and rich

 

airborne4vr> Helo all

 

PsychDoc> Well, enough about last session... there is a transcript for those newcomers here who would like to review that.

 

PsychDoc> (hi air)

 

airborne4vr> Hello

 

PsychDoc> That transcript can be found on the main credit repair board attached to a sticky message at the top.

 

PsychDoc> Since this is primarily a course for beginners, and since it's likely that many other beginners will read these transcripts later, I want to mention my "Three Musts" for beginners.

 

PsychDoc> 1. You must be willing to learn. Actually, this is really about attitude. I once spent an awful lot of time in another credit-related community preaching the virtues of "BE WILLING TO BE A NEWBIE FOR AWHILE BEFORE PROCLAIMING YOUR EXPERTISE."

 

PsychDoc> What I was trying to do with that is help people to understand that they would indeed be accepted even if they didn't know anything at all. I had seen plenty of newcomers, time and again, either not post because they thought they didn't know enough to participate.

 

PsychDoc> Or they didn't post because they were afraid that someone would think they're stupid.

 

PsychDoc> Or, worse, they would try to present themselves as knowing more than they actually did know because they thought that was the clear path to acceptance.

 

PsychDoc> (I think that irritates everybody the most, lol.)

 

PsychDoc> The truth is far better than some newcomers might expect. Creditboards.com is frequented by a whole bunch of folks who want nothing more than to help somebody get through what they once got through.

 

PsychDoc> For that reason, you simply must feel free to identify yourself as somebody who's seeking help! And, for goodness sakes, feel free to do it without apology.

 

PsychDoc> Just get in there and say, "Hey, I'm new here, this is my situation, and I want to learn and would appreciate anybody's help." The Creditboards swimming pool is warm.

 

PsychDoc> 2. You must participate. You've not only got to be willing to learn, you've got to participate.

 

PsychDoc> Some people introduce themselves, and then wait for the ambulance to come to take them away to the Credit Repair Emergency Room where the experts will do all their work for them. Then when it doesn't happen, we never from them again.

 

PsychDoc> Creditboards isn't an emergency room. Rather, it's a community, so after you introduce yourself and state your problem, you may not get an instant answer. Rest assured, though, people are already getting to know you, and they may well be thinking about what you've posted.

 

PsychDoc> After that, you've got to "keep coming back" as I once heard elsewhere, continue interacting, and always ask more questions. Staying with the community and participating fully is the key to your ultimate success.

 

PsychDoc> Over the long haul, you'll probably find you're answering more questions than you're asking. But even when others think you're an old grizzled expert, you should still feel free to ask even basic questions. Even the old-timers are still learning.

 

PsychDoc> 3. You must read more than this. Homework is not fun. But you've got to do it if you don't want to fail.

 

PsychDoc> Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that you venture onto the Internet right now and find the laws we'll mention tonight and read them fully. (Of course that wouldn't be a bad idea, frankly, and many of the most successful among us have done just that.)

 

richandpoor> My pause button doesnt work

 

PsychDoc> uh-oh...

 

tomurphjr> Wheres the pause button?

 

richandpoor> ok ty

 

PsychDoc> On the other hand, get ready to at least READ ABOUT them. One way to do that is to spend at least an hour a day reading Creditboards.com for one full week. Just get in there, and start reading. You'll definitely come across stuff that makes no sense to you at all, but keep reading anyway.

 

PsychDoc> If you do that for a significant amount of time, the material will begin to congeal, and you will find yourself understanding more and more. Make a commitment to yourself to read the daylights out of this board for a brief period of time before you do anything else. Consider it your Master's Degree in Credit Repair.

 

PsychDoc> Just as a bit of discussion

 

PsychDoc> Who here has actually read the FCRA?

 

richandpoor> ME

 

ridgefire> me

 

dubzero> yep

 

deedee_e> me

 

PsychDoc> wow

 

richandpoor> Ordered it

 

TzuMom> me

 

IDare> me

 

kemi4u> me

 

800SomeDay> me

 

airborne4vr> No

 

tomurphjr> It's a little confusing to me

 

stevenassco> no

 

PsychDoc> some no's...

 

cadicae> Not yet

 

PsychDoc> lots of yesses

 

tomurphjr> but I've tried

 

PsychDoc> lol, tom

 

shabby_51> Type hereno

 

kemi4u> I agree..confusing with the legal terms

 

PsychDoc> rich, you said that you "ordered" it...

 

PsychDoc> I hope nobody's charging you for it

 

richandpoor> yes it came in the mail

 

PsychDoc> free from the FTC?

 

richandpoor> CB, lkh llinked it

 

richandpoor> yeah

 

PsychDoc> very good

 

PsychDoc> ok, who's read the FCBA (if you don't know what that is, I'll detail that in a minute)

 

PsychDoc> hands up

 

Savantrice> i havent read it...feels very over my head...i read the sections ppl reference in posts though...

 

richandpoor> I ordered all of em for free

 

dubzero> not yet

 

richandpoor> not me

 

PsychDoc> FDCPA?

 

tomurphjr> Not yet

 

deedee_e> haven't digested that one yet

 

stevenassco> nope

 

shabby_51> no

 

richandpoor> nope

 

tomurphjr> no

 

kemi4u> no

 

jcolon68> nope

 

airborne4vr> No

 

cadicae> not yet, either - I read the boards a lot, though!

 

dubzero> some of fcdpa

 

PsychDoc> FDCPA is one I would encourage you to read.

 

richandpoor> its much shorter though

 

richandpoor> read it online

 

vsu_mom> some of it

 

PsychDoc> very good, vsu_mom

 

stevenassco> where can you access online copies of these - should we just google it?

 

PsychDoc> well, they're tough to read

 

PsychDoc> but

 

PsychDoc> if you can't make yourself read 'em

 

PsychDoc> as I said

 

ismism> no

 

PsychDoc> at least read ABOUT them as much as you can on the board

 

PsychDoc> here are a few links

 

PsychDoc> FCRA:

 

cadicae> There are copies linked on the creditboards.com site, right?

 

PsychDoc> http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm

 

zappagal> sorry I am late

 

PsychDoc> http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

 

cadicae> Oh, well, and here are links now!! LOL!! Thanks Doc!

 

PsychDoc> (That last one was the FDCPA)

 

PsychDoc> and for FCBA:

 

PsychDoc> http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcb/fcb.pdf

 

PsychDoc> That's a pdf file (Adobe Acrobat)

 

PsychDoc> I would encourage you to at least look over them

 

PsychDoc> look at the subsection titles and dip in

 

richandpoor> LKH had that GREAT link.....

 

PsychDoc> it will help as we move forward through the course

 

PsychDoc> For those who are interested in HIPAA (more later)

 

PsychDoc> regarding medical accounts

 

richandpoor> http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/us..._sup_01_15.html

 

PsychDoc> Here's a great link

 

PsychDoc> http://www.hipaacomply.com/

 

cadicae> Alright

 

PsychDoc> Very good stuff

 

PsychDoc> Now, while we begin to talk about the legal basis for all of this

 

PsychDoc> it's bears mentioning for a moment that there are other tactics

 

PsychDoc> I'm keeping in mind that there will be newcomers reading the transcript of this in the future

 

PsychDoc> so...

 

PsychDoc> You may have come across credit repair methods which are strictly illegal. These range from booklets and consultants who will advise you to do everything from identifying someone near your age who died as a child and attempting to establish credit in their name, to simply making up a Social Security number in accordance with some geographically-based insider information regarding the numbering scheme, to acquiring an IRS Taxpayer Information Number (TIN), which looks like a Social Security Number, and establishing credit with that, to you-name-it.

 

PsychDoc> Needless to say, all such methods risk loss of freedom, income, and community standing. Anytime you see an advertisement for "NEW CREDIT FILE OVERNIGHT," steer clear. Truly legal credit repair is a gradual process that takes time to complete.

 

PsychDoc> In fact, what is advocated here is putting Federal statutes to work in the service of improving your credit standing. Here, laws are chased and embraced -- rather than shunned and avoided.

 

PsychDoc> Sometimes members of this community use those laws to actually file lawsuits against abusive original creditors ("OCs" for short), collection agencies ("CAs"), and credit bureaus (officially "consumer reporting agencies" or "CRAs") to meet their goals.

 

PsychDoc> The laws we most commonly reference are:

 

PsychDoc> The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), which basically tells the bureaus what they can and can't do.

 

PsychDoc> The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA), which is a subset of the more comprehensive Truth in Lending Act, which essentially tells original creditors how they should behave.

 

PsychDoc> As an aside... I really like this second one (FCBA)

 

PsychDoc> It's not one we commonly use in this community...

 

PsychDoc> but it forms the basis of most so-called "OC validation" interventions

 

PsychDoc> like the Nutcase Series and other good ones you'll see from time to time.

 

PsychDoc> More shortly.

 

PsychDoc> The Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), which regulates debt collectors.

 

PsychDoc> Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which regulates health providers.

 

PsychDoc> Here's a very very brief way to think about these...

 

PsychDoc> The FCRA...

 

PsychDoc> Ensures access to credit reports.

 

PsychDoc> Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report

 

PsychDoc> Limits how long information can be reported.

 

PsychDoc> Details how a CRA must handle disputes.

 

PsychDoc> And of course...

 

PsychDoc> the credit repair intervention commonly associated with this statute is of course the credit bureau dispute.

 

PsychDoc> We'll delve into the FCRA in more detail in the fifth lesson November 3 (CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting)

 

PsychDoc> FCBA:

 

PsychDoc> The FCBA requires creditors to bill correctly and completely, and it's the FTC's job to make sure that the statute is universally applied.

 

PsychDoc> (But it can be your job to ask that your creditors comply as well, LOL.)

 

PsychDoc> The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges; charges that list the wrong date or amount; charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed; math errors; failure to post payments and other credits, such as returns; failure to send bills to your current address --

 

PsychDoc> provided the creditor receives your change of address, in writing, at least 20 days before the billing period ends; and charges for which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification."

 

PsychDoc> As you read the list of requirements the FCBA stipulates, just think about the credit repair possibilities. Consider something like this:

 

PsychDoc> "In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing, including charges and interest, as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed, for the life of the account, or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected."

 

PsychDoc> That's something that no original creditor wants to fool with.

 

PsychDoc> This constitutes a truthful request for information.

 

PsychDoc> Call this example FCBA Nutcase, or call it chopped liver, or -- even better -- invent your own creative approach using the statute.

 

PsychDoc> Keep in mind that the FCBA is actually intended to assist consumers with CURRENT charges in dispute, however creditors do not welcome the idea that they may have broken the law with your account even several years before. And of course even though you WON'T accuse them of that (because perhaps they broke no laws), they almost always seem to get spooked when asked for such information.

 

PsychDoc> We'll cover the FCBA more fully in the sixth lesson November 17 (CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting)

 

PsychDoc> FDCPA:

 

PsychDoc> What a goodie.

 

PsychDoc> Who here has ever sent a validation letter?

 

PsychDoc> (I know ism has.)

 

IDare> moi

 

deedee_e> getting ready to

 

PsychDoc> great

 

tomurphjr> I have sorta

 

richandpoor> sent 1 #2 goes out in the morning

 

diddledee> yep

 

PsychDoc> ok, so I may be telling you what you already know... but a validation letter is an FDCPA intervention

 

cadicae> Getting ready, too

 

kemi4u> yep

 

PsychDoc> super

 

PsychDoc> a quick mind-map of the FDCPA

 

PsychDoc> Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior.

 

PsychDoc> Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors. (Before, CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were.)

 

Savantrice> i have sent one

 

PsychDoc> Allows the debtor to formally request (i.e., by letter -- hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further.

 

PsychDoc> Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt. Such procedures are termed debt validation (as so many here know) and are so POWERFUL that we'll devote an entire lesson to the matter on December 1 (CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting).

 

PsychDoc> You'll sometimes see the credit repair mavens...

 

PsychDoc> the titans

 

PsychDoc> LOL

 

PsychDoc> argue about what constitutes true validation

 

PsychDoc> or which legal cases require what item, etc.

 

PsychDoc> Most of that is interesting if you're way into it...

 

PsychDoc> but the wonderful thing is

 

PsychDoc> that validation requests often just work.

 

PsychDoc> For the same reason that FCRA interventions (aka credit bureau disputes) and FCBA interventions (pestering OCs) work.

 

deedee_e> because they don't have the paper trail?

 

PsychDoc> They simply don't want to fool with your lawful request for information.

 

PsychDoc> true enough, dee

 

PsychDoc> CAs in particular would rather just move along to the next person who'll roll over. They cost less and pay more.

 

cadicae> Yay!

 

PsychDoc> Again, we'll get more into the detail of all of that in the FDCPA session.

 

PsychDoc> But I want to talk more here at the start about the PHILOSOPHY of creating interventions.

 

PsychDoc> here's why

 

stevenassco> so a VL is only useful in the case if you have a collector after you?

 

PsychDoc> when you use somebody else's intervention letter, that's fine

 

PsychDoc> but when 25,000 people use the same letter, it may be flagged

 

PsychDoc> (steven, basically yes... we'll talk about exceptions later)

 

PsychDoc> if you begin to create your own interventions... or even if more people begin to create unique ones... we'll all be better off collectively

 

PsychDoc> and it's pretty darned easy!

 

cadicae> So - use your own words!!!

 

PsychDoc> well, it cuts even deeper than just using your own words (although I agree with that wholeheartedly)

 

PsychDoc> Pretend for a moment that there was something called the FAIR CREDIT REPORT REQUIREMENT RAZZMATAZZ ACT (FCRRRA). And let's further pretend that that law requires these things: First, let's say that the FCRRRA says that CRAs must send thank you notes to creditors every time they report new information to them.

 

PsychDoc>

 

PsychDoc> Second, let's say that the FCRRRA stipulates that they must print their consumer credit reports with ink bought only from Cartier New York.

 

PsychDoc>

 

cadicae> Well, yes, you need to include the "buzzwords"

 

PsychDoc> Finally, let's say that the FCRRRA requires credit bureaus to mail their reports to consumers only on Thursdays.

 

PsychDoc>

 

PsychDoc> Now, remember that citizens (including you and me as well as corporate citizens) can't pick and choose which parts of a statute deserve compliance. They must comply with the whole act. And if they don't comply with every bit of it, then they've broken the law. If corporate citizens like Equifax or Citibank or NCO violate a statute, they've likely injured a real person, and there are serious penalties for doing so

 

PsychDoc> So, back to our silly fictional federal statute. A good credit repair intervention wouldn't directly accuse the recipient of malfeasance (unless you are sure that they ABSOLUTELY did commit the malfeasance). Rather, the credit repair intervention would simply ask the other party to DOCUMENT THEIR COMPLIANCE with the law.

 

PsychDoc> So, in this case, it would look something like...

 

PsychDoc> Dear Equifax:

 

PsychDoc> Pursuant to the Fair Credit Report Requirement Razzmatazz Act, please demonstrate that you sent the required thank you notes to Citibank every time they forwarded new information related to my account (number 12345).

 

PsychDoc> Moreover, show that such information was printed with ink requisitioned from Cartier New York.

 

PsychDoc> Finally, prove that you mailed the report in question to me on a Thursday. If such documentation cannot be provided, please remove the item from my report immediately.

 

PsychDoc> Sincerely, Joe Consumer

 

PsychDoc>

 

deedee_e> lol

 

PsychDoc> Essentially you're asking them to document their compliance.

 

PsychDoc> In other words, the best way to create a unique credit repair intervention is to take a close look at the federal statute in question (whether that's FCRA, FCBA, FDCPA, HIPAA, or another state or federal law which you believe is relevant), and then ask the other party to show that they aren't behaving criminally.

 

richandpoor> Yeah

 

richandpoor> Its starting to sink in!!!!

 

PsychDoc> Cool!

 

PsychDoc>

 

PsychDoc> When you approach the matter this way, you aren't crafting lies. You're simply asking a company for information related to your account, especially with respect to how that account has been reported to the credit bureaus.

 

PsychDoc> Sometimes companies don't want to take the time to address your lawful request in that manner, and some of those sometimes simply delete the offending tradeline rather than fool with it (or you) anymore.

 

PsychDoc> This approach is the essence of the credit bureau dispute (HEY BUREAU -- SHOW ME YOU'RE COMPLIANT WITH THE FCRA),

 

PsychDoc> the original creditor interventions like the "Nutcase Series" (HEY ORIGINAL CREDITOR -- PROVIDE ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT MY ACCOUNT PURSUANT TO FCBA),

 

PsychDoc> debt validation (HEY COLLECTOR -- SHOW ME THE HISTORY AND PROVENANCE OF THE DEBT PER THE FDCPA),

 

PsychDoc> and HIPAA interventions (HEY DOC -- SHOW ME YOU HANDLED MY ACCOUNT IN WAYS THAT PROTECT MY PRIVACY).

 

PsychDoc> Ok, I'll stay away from inventing anymore silly statutes because we've got too many real ones to discuss as we move forward. Still, I hope this example illustrates the similarities among the real credit repair interventions we commonly use.

 

PsychDoc> This approach... requesting information basically... is one that lawyers commonly use (what they sometimes term "discovery"). Asking for information is your right as a consumer.

 

deedee_e> yes it does

 

PsychDoc> Lawyers love discovery simply because of the nuisance factor.

 

PsychDoc> And that same principle works for you.

 

PsychDoc> Lawyers don't say to their opponent during discovery anything like... "TELL ME WHY YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE (OR HUSBAND)."

 

PsychDoc> Instead they'll say... "GIVE AN ACCOUNTING OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP FROM THE BEGINNING UNTIL THE PRESENT."

 

PsychDoc> And then they look for discrepancies.

 

PsychDoc> If you really do head toward court eventually with some matter, you'll probably collect a few discrepancies vis-a-vis some CRA's behavior... or an OC... or a CA.

 

PsychDoc> Does any of this resonate with anybody?

 

PsychDoc> (Hope so, lol.)

 

IDare> you bet

 

dubzero> yep

 

deedee_e> yes

 

Anarone> yup, chrystal clear

 

richandpoor> LOUD AND CLEAR, GO GEORGE GO

 

PsychDoc> lol

 

cadicae> Oh, yeah!

 

stevenassco> yep yep

 

tomurphjr> load and clear

 

kemi4u> yes

 

tmimages> yep

 

ismism> for shizzle

 

PsychDoc> This is basically the core method for how these crazy credit repair interventions get started.

 

PsychDoc> You know, I was looking over the transcript for the last lesson...

 

PsychDoc> and I received some accolades for a couple of interventions I created...

 

PsychDoc> and I thought, "wow, what nice people" and then I thought

 

PsychDoc> "wow, I have to UN-snow them"

 

IDare> lol

 

PsychDoc> "I have to show them that there's no magic to this"

 

PsychDoc> I mean, there's a choice point here for me...

 

PsychDoc> continue to indulge the guru thing

 

PsychDoc> or just convince others that they are the gurus

 

PsychDoc> the second is best, because I'm no guru

 

richandpoor> you're analyzing your self...?

 

PsychDoc> (LKH will confirm that, LOL!)

 

LKH> no comment. lol

 

PsychDoc> rich, how do you think I ended up being a shrink?

 

PsychDoc> Once you get the hang of this...

 

richandpoor> You're doing superb!!!

 

PsychDoc> essentially that it's about demanding compliance and demanding information

 

PsychDoc> then you'll not only be in a terrific position to radically increase your credit rating

 

PsychDoc> (i.e., your credit score... the rates you're offered... etc.)

 

PsychDoc> but you'll be in a fantastic position to help others...

 

PsychDoc> and if you're in this room

 

PsychDoc> and I see that even as we near the end of this lesson, we have 37 people still here...

 

PsychDoc> then you're probably VERY interested in the topic

 

Savantrice> indeed

 

PsychDoc> and will likely be among those people who'll help the NEXT group of beginners.

 

PsychDoc> this is a terrific community

 

richandpoor> knowledge is power, unfortunately, on this subject, I've been ignorant for far too many years!!

 

kemi4u> very interested

 

cadicae> this is a terrific community, absolutely!

 

PsychDoc> and those of us who care about helping others who've been through what we've been through (like you)

 

-GB-> 38 people, both of me are here

 

PsychDoc> want to make sure that it continues to grow... and that new credit repair interventions based upon law

 

PsychDoc> are developed

 

PsychDoc> LOL GB

 

PsychDoc> well, that's it for this time

 

PsychDoc> I hope something here was useful

 

PsychDoc> next time we'll delve into credit bureaus and credit reports ...

 

PsychDoc> and credit scores

 

LKH> well done again doc

 

IDare> TY Doc

 

stevenassco> thanks doc

 

PsychDoc> and we'll talk about how to improve your score EVEN WITHOUT these intervention letters

 

deedee_e> thanks

 

kemi4u> yes, thanks

 

richandpoor> Doc, you just removed the dark spot in my field of vision!!! Thanks!

 

diddledee> Thanks, Doc!

 

PsychDoc> then we'll get into the street fighting

 

tomurphjr> Thanks DOC!!

 

PsychDoc>

 

PsychDoc> shucks

 

cadicae> Rigbht on!

 

ismism> you really are a shrink ...this wasnt a full hour

 

-GB-> uh,

 

shabby_51> very good stuff

 

IDare> yesssssssssssss to street fighting

 

PsychDoc> very good

 

PsychDoc> hey we do 45 minute hours, LOL

 

MomOf_3Teachers> Thank you

 

PsychDoc> you are welcome

 

RoadGlider05> street fighting.. yep

 

PsychDoc> (thanks, LKH!)

 

Savantrice> thanks a lot psychdoc

 

IDare> ::up ::up

 

LKH> No,. thank you

 

PsychDoc> wow, IDare, thank you

 

<tomurphjr> sent sound: whistle

 

PsychDoc> ok, I'm going to rescue my kids who are now killing each other

 

PsychDoc> hehe

 

ismism> is this q &a time??

 

IDare> lol

 

PsychDoc> but I'm sure this room will stay open

 

-GB-> 45 minute hours is ok, my DW tells me im only good for 30minutes, I swear its at least a hour and ahalf

 

Stephlynne> For once, I don't feel so hopeless about this process. Thanks, PsychDoc.

 

LKH> doc, you've got questions

 

PsychDoc> ok

 

PsychDoc> I'll stick around

 

PsychDoc> Q&A

 

LKH> lol

 

PsychDoc> ism... shoot

 

ismism> ok

 

kemi4u> I think the FCBA nutcase is exactly what I was looking for.

 

PsychDoc> fire away with your question ism

 

ismism> i have a jugdment.iwasnt served ia paid it but i want it off

 

PsychDoc> hey, that looked like a new word... questionism

 

cadicae> hehe

 

RoadGlider05>

 

PsychDoc> ok, paid judgment

 

tmimages> lol

 

ismism> y

 

ismism> settled

 

PsychDoc> is this a court record ... or are you referencing a tradeline reported by an OC

 

richandpoor> It really is making sense to me now, by knowing the acts, you're simply insisting on your lawful right to see their complaince of the law

 

ismism> 2ys ago

 

PsychDoc> (exactly, rich!)

 

ismism> court

 

PsychDoc> court records are tough...

 

ismism> land lord cacse

 

PsychDoc> tougher than creditor tradelines

 

PsychDoc> There's no harm in asking the court to verify their procedures for reporting to credit bureaus

 

PsychDoc> You may see some success.

 

ismism> didnt know i could do that with court

 

PsychDoc> Most people simply dispute and re-dispute with the CRAs until they're gone.

 

ismism> if they dont reply in 30 days

 

PsychDoc> Well, ism, you can ALWAYS ask your opponent -- in this case, the court -- for information.

 

ismism> are they required to delete?

 

PsychDoc> Asking for information violates no laws.

 

PsychDoc> No, they're not required to delete.

 

LKH> .did they follow your state landlord tenant laws exactly?

 

richandpoor> unless its national security

 

stevenassco> isn't it 30+5

 

PsychDoc> To my knowledge (and let me stress that operant phrase)

 

PsychDoc> LKH's question is right in line with this.

 

ismism> i wasnt served

 

PsychDoc> Ask them to demonstrate that they abided by all laws.

 

ismism> ok thanks

 

richandpoor> This is just WAY to powerful

 

LKH> they claimed to have served you

 

ismism> i didnt know of judgment till i saw it on my ccreport

 

PsychDoc> Very interesting.

 

LKH> then you need to file a motion quashing service. But first

 

LKH> go to the cthouse and get the file and see the affidavit of service

 

PsychDoc> agreed

 

ismism> i live in another stae now

 

LKH> Of course lol

 

LKH> you might be able to get them online

 

ismism> but ill get right on it

 

PsychDoc> or do it by letter

 

PsychDoc> certified letter

 

LKH> yep

 

richandpoor> yes

 

ismism> i saw a letter from why chat

 

PsychDoc> ok... this strikes me as something that you should also post on the board

 

ismism> but im alilttle worried with fooling with courts

 

PsychDoc> about being worried re fooling with courts...

 

LKH> you aren't trying to fool the cts

 

PsychDoc> YOU DON'T OWE ANY MORE MONEY

 

ismism> no

 

PsychDoc> THE CASE WAS SETTLED

 

PsychDoc>

 

ismism> not at all

 

PsychDoc> You are now just a nuisance.

 

PsychDoc> You're not threatening anybody.

 

PsychDoc> You're simply demanding some information.

 

ismism> they make me nervous tho

 

ismism> cops too

 

ismism> lol

 

PsychDoc> Don't be nervous, lol.

 

PsychDoc> Ok, on that note...

 

richandpoor> Do you have 'open' warrants?

 

ismism> no

 

ismism> but still

 

IDare> ism you need to learn the Joy of Pestering ;-)

 

richandpoor> no sweat then

 

PsychDoc> Any other questions before I go rescue my kids..

 

diddledee> my mother in law wrote that book

 

PsychDoc> I like that IDare...

 

-GB-> ummmmm

 

PsychDoc> THE JOY OF PESTERING

 

PsychDoc> that's the key!

 

ismism> im a latino with one of those faces

 

IDare> it's fun!

 

richandpoor> Doc, thanks a ton, great job, c u next time!!!!

 

LKH> thanks Doc

 

PsychDoc> Ok, see you in two weeks.

 

RoadGlider05> will the transcript be available? I came in late

 

Anarone> thanks doc

 

PsychDoc> I really enjoyed it.

 

LKH> take care

 

deedee_e> thanks for your time go save your off spring

 

IDare> seeya Doc!

 

ismism> thanks for all the help

 

PsychDoc> I'll prepare the transcript and shoot it over to breeze tonight

 

PsychDoc> bye

 

PsychDoc>

 

TWO WEEKS FROM NOW @ 9 PM EASTERN TIME:

CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores, 10/6/2005

[blackberry74]

I.forgot.AGAIN.

 

I'm setting the alarm in cell phone NOW for the next one. Geeze.

[ufjoe21]

interesting read

[marsimms]

Well, I can't actually attend these things, but they're really just SUPER! Thanks so much to PsychDoc for your time and expertise, and LKH and Pam and Breeze and Radi8 for the forum! The transcripts are not only a terrific read, but they are an invaluable resource - just great!

 

Thanks again, I'm already incorporating some of what I've learned!

 

-m-

[KickingMyself]

Thank you again Psych Doc. The clarification of all the information we try to absorb on the boards is invaluable! Sorry I couldn't attend #2, had emergency pet sitting duty.

[tal]

I just want to thank all of the parties involved in these transcripts. They are much appreciated. I hope to get out of class in time to catch the third and ongoing installments. thanks again

[blgs]

Doc ? i missed the show ! how would you handle your local court and a cra in reporting a tax lein ?? thanks.

[Original]

These transcripts are great I can't wait to join in the next session.

[crazyfor8s]

Thank you so much for posting the transcripts. I loved the first session and am looking forward to #3. Sad i missed this one! Great stuff!

[BusTex]

Thanks for the transcripts, it is great reading.

BusTex

[keli449]

I work thursday nights and cannott attend, thank you for the transcripts which I have ben reading and learning!

[Gryffindor]

My Cliffnotes for Seminar #2:

 

CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, 9/22/2005

 

PsychDoc> "Three Musts" for beginners.

 

1. You must be willing to learn. Actually, this is really about attitude. "BE WILLING TO BE A NEWBIE FOR AWHILE BEFORE PROCLAIMING YOUR EXPERTISE."

 

2. You must participate. You've not only got to be willing to learn, you've got to participate.

 

3. You must read more than this. Homework is not fun. But you've got to do it if you don't want to fail.

 

ILLEGAL METHODS OF CREDIT REPAIR:

 

PsychDoc> You may have come across credit repair methods which are strictly illegal. These range from booklets and consultants who will advise you to do everything from identifying someone near your age who died as a child and attempting to establish credit in their name, to simply making up a Social Security number in accordance with some geographically-based insider information regarding the numbering scheme, to acquiring an IRS Taxpayer Information Number (TIN), which looks like a Social Security Number, and establishing credit with that, to you-name-it.

 

Needless to say, all such methods risk loss of freedom, income, and community standing. Anytime you see an advertisement for "NEW CREDIT FILE OVERNIGHT," steer clear. Truly legal credit repair is a gradual process that takes time to complete.

 

LEGAL METHODS OF CREDIT REPAIR:

 

What is advocated here is putting Federal statutes to work in the service of improving your credit standing. Here, laws are chased and embraced -- rather than shunned and avoided.

 

Sometimes members of this community use those laws to actually file lawsuits against abusive original creditors ("OCs" for short), collection agencies ("CAs"), and credit bureaus (officially "consumer reporting agencies" or "CRAs") to meet their goals.

 

CREDIT LAWS:

The laws we most commonly reference are:

 

The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA), which basically tells the bureaus what they can and can't do.

FCRA: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm

· The FCRA ensures access to credit reports.

· Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report.

· Limits how long information can be reported.

· Details how a CRA must handle disputes

 

The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA)

FCBA:http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcb/fcb.pdf

Is a subset of the more comprehensive Truth in Lending Act, which essentially tells original creditors how they should behave. I really like this second one (FCBA) It's not one we commonly use in this community... but it forms the basis of most so-called "OC validation" interventions.

· The FCBA requires creditors to bill correctly and completely, and it's the FTC's job to make sure that the statute is universally applied.

· (But it can be your job to ask that your creditors comply as well, LOL.)

· The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges; charges that list the wrong date or amount; charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed; math errors; failure to post payments and other credits, such as returns; failure to send bills to your current address – provided the creditor receives your change of address, in writing, at least 20 days before the billing period ends; and charges for which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification."

 

As you read the list of requirements the FCBA stipulates, just think about the credit repair possibilities. Consider something like this:

 

"In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act, you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing, including charges and interest, as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed, for the life of the account, or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected."

 

That's something that no original creditor wants to fool with. This constitutes a truthful request for information. Call this example FCBA Nutcase, or call it chopped liver, or -- even better -- invent your own creative approach using the statute. Keep in mind that the FCBA is actually intended to assist consumers with CURRENT charges in dispute, however creditors do not welcome the idea that they may have broken the law with your account even several years before. And of course even though you WON'T accuse them of that (because perhaps they broke no laws), they almost always seem to get spooked when asked for such information.

 

 

The Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), which regulates debt collectors. FDCPA: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

· a validation letter is an FDCPA intervention

· Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior.

· Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors. (Before, CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were.)

· Allows the debtor to formally request (i.e., by letter -- hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further.

· Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt. Such procedures are termed debt validation (as so many here know) and are so POWERFUL that we'll devote an entire lesson to the matter on December 1 (CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting).

· Why DV’s often work: They simply don't want to fool with your lawful request for information. CAs in particular would rather just move along to the next person who'll roll over. They cost less and pay more.

 

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which regulates health providers. http://www.hipaacomply.com/

 

PHILOSOPHY of creating interventions:

 

When you use somebody else's intervention letter, that's fine but when 25,000 people use the same letter, it may be flagged. If you begin to create your own interventions... or even if more people begin to create unique ones... we'll all be better off collectively

 

Pretend for a moment that there was something called the FAIR CREDIT REPORT REQUIREMENT RAZZMATAZZ ACT (FCRRRA). And let's further pretend that that law requires these things: First, let's say that the FCRRRA says that CRAs must send thank you notes to creditors every time they report new information to them.

 

Second, let's say that the FCRRRA stipulates that they must print their consumer credit reports with ink bought only from Cartier New York.

 

Finally, let's say that the FCRRRA requires credit bureaus to mail their reports to consumers only on Thursdays.

 

Now, remember that citizens (including you and me as well as corporate citizens) can't pick and choose which parts of a statute deserve compliance. They must comply with the whole act. And if they don't comply with every bit of it, then they've broken the law. If corporate citizens like Equifax or Citibank or NCO violate a statute, they've likely injured a real person, and there are serious penalties for doing so

 

So, back to our silly fictional federal statute. A good credit repair intervention wouldn't directly accuse the recipient of malfeasance (unless you are sure that they ABSOLUTELY did commit the malfeasance). Rather, the credit repair intervention would simply ask the other party to DOCUMENT THEIR COMPLIANCE with the law.

 

So, in this case, it would look something like...

 

Dear Equifax:

Pursuant to the Fair Credit Report Requirement Razzmatazz Act, please demonstrate that you sent the required thank you notes to Citibank every time they forwarded new information related to my account (number 12345).

 

Moreover, show that such information was printed with ink requisitioned from Cartier New York.

 

Finally, prove that you mailed the report in question to me on a Thursday. If such documentation cannot be provided, please remove the item from my report immediately.

 

Sincerely, Joe Consumer

 

Essentially you're asking them to document their compliance.

 

In other words, the best way to create a unique credit repair intervention is to take a close look at the federal statute in question (whether that's FCRA, FCBA, FDCPA, HIPAA, or another state or federal law which you believe is relevant), and then ask the other party to show that they aren't behaving criminally.

 

When you approach the matter this way, you aren't crafting lies. You're simply asking a company for information related to your account, especially with respect to how that account has been reported to the credit bureaus. Sometimes companies don't want to take the time to address your lawful request in that manner, and some of those sometimes simply delete the offending tradeline rather than fool with it (or you) anymore.

 

This approach is the essence of the credit bureau dispute (HEY BUREAU -- SHOW ME YOU'RE COMPLIANT WITH THE FCRA),

 

The original creditor interventions like the "Nutcase Series" (HEY ORIGINAL CREDITOR -- PROVIDE ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT MY ACCOUNT PURSUANT TO FCBA),

 

Debt validation (HEY COLLECTOR -- SHOW ME THE HISTORY AND PROVENANCE OF THE DEBT PER THE FDCPA),

 

HIPAA interventions (HEY DOC -- SHOW ME YOU HANDLED MY ACCOUNT IN WAYS THAT PROTECT MY PRIVACY).

 

Essentially that it's about demanding compliance and demanding information Then you'll not only be in a terrific position to radically increase your credit rating (i.e., your credit score... the rates you're offered... etc.) but you'll be in a fantastic position to help others...

and will likely be among those people who'll help the NEXT group of beginners.

 

Of course this is a very condensed version of the above transcript. I highly recommend reading the entire transcript and not relying solely on these notes.

[momintn]

WOW, a year and a half after the last post, somebody's still getting use out of this! I obviously missed the real thing, so I'm going through the transcripts one at a time, taking great notes.

 

PsychDoc, you rock!

[kashboss]

I appreciate all the information as I start on what seems like an uphill battle to repair my credit. I have read quite a bit in the last few days after being member for awhile, and these seminars help alot. I just hope that I am able to achieve the same results as when these seminars posted, and that the credit agencies and debtors aren't more difficult to handle after facing people that are wiser and smarter after getting on creditboards.com

Thanks to all including PsychDoc

[reddragonz34]

There is so much information in these transcripts that it's unbelievable! I wish that I had knowledge of this board way back when and maybe I could of prevented some of the credit headache that I'm now dealing with. Thanks PsychDoc and all others for taking the time to help out!

[meNUBorange]

THANK YOU again for this great transcript! It's all becoming much clearer now. I plan on making great use of "demanding compliance and demanding information", and I will embrace the joy of pestering.

 

*on to Lesson 3 because I really can't get enough of this yet*

[Rachel2982]

I just pulled my credit report and it it 600 and lower. I am strudying to get my mortgage loan orginator license and could possibly be deined because of my credit score. I read all your seminars tonight and I am desperate need of what to do, or what letter is the right one.

[djfunz]

I was actually wonderg this as well. Here I am, a complete noob when it comes to credit repair. After reading through the first two transcripts and a lot of the beginner material, I can't help but feel that a lot of the CRAs and CAs have caught on to all of these tactics and document everything very well now. In fact if I was a manager of some of these companies, I would made it policy to document everything for these purposes. Still an interesting read though.

[moldyearwax]

I don't have a decent printer at home to print out the FCRA, FCBA, FDCPA's. I sent the FTC a message via their website (FTC.gov) asking them to send it to me. I got it within a week.

[Icbto09]

All these years later, this is still giving inspiration and clarity. I truly appreciate CB