Disputing Judgments: Who Verifies

[fixitmister]

When you dispute a judgment on a CR who is it that the CRA contacts for verification, the OC or the court where the judgment was issued or both or none?

 

Thanks.

[bearhug]

I don' tthink that the court ever gets contacted in Judgement verification.

[fixitmister]

I don' tthink that the court ever gets contacted in Judgement verification.

Here's what I read elsewhere on this board about judgments:

 

(judgments) have been known to come off with a simply dispute to CRAs b/c most courthouses do not have the staff or inclination to verify this information�€â€and since CRAs claim that courthouses are the furnishers of this info (which is bullsh*t, most probably westlaw or lexis nexis), it is the courthouses which have to corroborate.

bearhug, are you saying this is wrong? Can anyone else verify the accuracy of the above?

Edited October 1, 2006 by fixitmister

[Why Chat]

The best way, IMO, to dispute a judgment off your reports is to opt out, delete old addresses, get a copy of the RECORDED judgment and double check the data on the PUBLIC RECORD against the information on your credit reports which is supplied to them by services that search the PUBLIC RECORDS.

 

If there is a discrepancy, or if you have moved to another State and been able to get your old address removed, you then dispute by saying:

 

I have no such recorded judgment from this Court, for this date, for this amount.

 

I happen to disagree with those who say that because the Courts themselves do not directly verify with the CRA's that you can claim "no verification". IMO, if the Court has placed it on the PUBLIC RECORD, and a service that supplies PUBLIC RECORDS to the CRA has reported it 100% accurately, then it is, IMO verified properly.

[Guest mic]

I just wanted to add here that I followed WhyChats advice to get a copy of recorded judgments was surprised to learn that 2 of the 4 were never entered!!!

I have not dipsuted the other 2 with the CRA's that were entered at thies date yet. Got the old address removed from the 2 that were entered but we still live in the same city.

 

I really wanted to post that following WhyChat's advice about getting a copy of recorded judments is great advice.

[fixitmister]

Thanks mic and whychat.

 

I am guessing the "recorded judgment" is different from just seeing the jdgment listed on my cr.

 

How do I get a copy of the recorded judgment.

 

Also, mic, if the judgment was never "recorded" how did it ever get listed on a public record? Doesn't the fact that it was in the public record mean it would have to have been recorded?

[Guest mic]

fixitmaster - the 2 judgments that were not enterted I found online on the court of Virgnia website. That info looked legit to me until I went to the courthouse. Those 2 judgments were not reporting to the CRA's but I was flipped out because I thought they would come up when applying for a mortgage. My DH has 1 recorded judgment not showing on his reports.

 

What I leanred is that sometimes info on the courts website is not anywhere near the info on the recordred judgment from the courts.

Edited October 1, 2006 by mic

[Why Chat]

Thanks mic and whychat.

 

I am guessing the "recorded judgment" is different from just seeing the jdgment listed on my cr.

 

How do I get a copy of the recorded judgment.

 

Also, mic, if the judgment was never "recorded" how did it ever get listed on a public record? Doesn't the fact that it was in the public record mean it would have to have been recorded?

There is a link in the "stickies" on the Help I've Been Served forum on this topic.

Basically, sometimes the fact that a person was SUED and a judgment AWARDED makes it into the credit reports, even though a FINAL ENTERING of the judgment was not done because of either a technical deficiency or Court rules.

[tozion]

Thanks mic and whychat.

 

I am guessing the "recorded judgment" is different from just seeing the jdgment listed on my cr.

 

How do I get a copy of the recorded judgment.

 

Also, mic, if the judgment was never "recorded" how did it ever get listed on a public record? Doesn't the fact that it was in the public record mean it would have to have been recorded?

There is a link in the "stickies" on the Help I've Been Served forum on this topic.

Basically, sometimes the fact that a person was SUED and a judgment AWARDED makes it into the credit reports, even though a FINAL ENTERING of the judgment was not done because of either a technical deficiency or Court rules.

 

WhyChat's advice in this area has worked 100% of the time for me

[dilligaf]

I happen to disagree with those who say that because the Courts themselves do not directly verify with the CRA's that you can claim "no verification". IMO, if the Court has placed it on the PUBLIC RECORD, and a service that supplies PUBLIC RECORDS to the CRA has reported it 100% accurately, then it is, IMO verified properly.

I don't disagree with this, but, if the CRA tells you that the court verified it and they actually verified it by a service that supplies public records, isn't that an issue?

[pryan67]

I happen to disagree with those who say that because the Courts themselves do not directly verify with the CRA's that you can claim "no verification". IMO, if the Court has placed it on the PUBLIC RECORD, and a service that supplies PUBLIC RECORDS to the CRA has reported it 100% accurately, then it is, IMO verified properly.

I don't disagree with this, but, if the CRA tells you that the court verified it and they actually verified it by a service that supplies public records, isn't that an issue?

 

 

This is an area where I disagree with WhyChat...

 

the CRAs are REQUIRED to give you the name and address of the FURNISHER of information. They don't do that in the case of PRs...all they do is say that the court verified it.

 

 

let's use Lexis as an example

 

Lexis gets the information from the court, but fat fingers it and says YOU, not your father, has a judgment for 50 billion dollars for stepping on someone's toe

 

 

CRA reports it

 

you say "Hey, that's not mine"

 

CRA says "ok, we'll "investigate" it" adn they actually go back to the furnisher (Lexis), which in and of itself would surprise me

 

 

Lexis looks at THEIR records, and, knowing that THEY can't make mistakes, verifies it with the CRA

 

 

CRA marks it as "verified"

 

 

 

 

what do you, as a consumer, do?

[Why Chat]

I happen to disagree with those who say that because the Courts themselves do not directly verify with the CRA's that you can claim "no verification". IMO, if the Court has placed it on the PUBLIC RECORD, and a service that supplies PUBLIC RECORDS to the CRA has reported it 100% accurately, then it is, IMO verified properly.

I don't disagree with this, but, if the CRA tells you that the court verified it and they actually verified it by a service that supplies public records, isn't that an issue?

 

 

This is an area where I disagree with WhyChat...

 

the CRAs are REQUIRED to give you the name and address of the FURNISHER of information. They don't do that in the case of PRs...all they do is say that the court verified it.

 

 

let's use Lexis as an example

 

Lexis gets the information from the court, but fat fingers it and says YOU, not your father, has a judgment for 50 billion dollars for stepping on someone's toe

 

 

CRA reports it

 

you say "Hey, that's not mine"

 

CRA says "ok, we'll "investigate" it" adn they actually go back to the furnisher (Lexis), which in and of itself would surprise me

 

 

Lexis looks at THEIR records, and, knowing that THEY can't make mistakes, verifies it with the CRA

 

 

CRA marks it as "verified"

 

 

 

 

what do you, as a consumer, do?

This is why I suggest people get a CERTIFIED copy of the RECORDED judgment and in their dispute letter to the CRA stating that they have "no such judgment of record for this Court for this date for this amount" that they ALSO state that they have certified documentation from the Court that upholds their dispute.

 

I do NOT suggest sending a copy of the judgment, as they might just result in a "corrected" entry if it is a difference in dates or amounts or staus as "paid", rather than getting a deletion.

 

If there were a FLAGRANT error or mistaken identification ( such as in your example, Pryan), then yes, send a copy of the certified judgment.

 

If the CRA does not correct or delete, then appropriate action including filed complaints can be taken, including civil suits against the CRA.

 

The difference in my approach to deletions of this type is basically that if you need to get something deleted, you also need a PROVEABLE violation on the part of the CRA , with a LEGAL paper trail in order to have any leverage. IMO a "claim" of improper or invalid "verification" is too easily open to interpretation.

[fixitmister]

And so I don't misinterpret here, I go down to the courthouse (or call the courthouse) and simply ask for a certified copy of the recorded judgment?

 

I have the down right? The court is the place I ask and this is what I ask for.

 

Is there generally a fee/waiting period for receiving this?

 

And once I do receive, any error whatsoever qualifies me for going down the path to disputing?

 

Thanks. why, for your input.

 

I happen to disagree with those who say that because the Courts themselves do not directly verify with the CRA's that you can claim "no verification". IMO, if the Court has placed it on the PUBLIC RECORD, and a service that supplies PUBLIC RECORDS to the CRA has reported it 100% accurately, then it is, IMO verified properly.

I don't disagree with this, but, if the CRA tells you that the court verified it and they actually verified it by a service that supplies public records, isn't that an issue?

 

 

This is an area where I disagree with WhyChat...

 

the CRAs are REQUIRED to give you the name and address of the FURNISHER of information. They don't do that in the case of PRs...all they do is say that the court verified it.

 

 

let's use Lexis as an example

 

Lexis gets the information from the court, but fat fingers it and says YOU, not your father, has a judgment for 50 billion dollars for stepping on someone's toe

 

 

CRA reports it

 

you say "Hey, that's not mine"

 

CRA says "ok, we'll "investigate" it" adn they actually go back to the furnisher (Lexis), which in and of itself would surprise me

 

 

Lexis looks at THEIR records, and, knowing that THEY can't make mistakes, verifies it with the CRA

 

 

CRA marks it as "verified"

 

 

 

 

what do you, as a consumer, do?

This is why I suggest people get a CERTIFIED copy of the RECORDED judgment and in their dispute letter to the CRA stating that they have "no such judgment of record for this Court for this date for this amount" that they ALSO state that they have certified documentation from the Court that upholds their dispute.

 

I do NOT suggest sending a copy of the judgment, as they might just result in a "corrected" entry if it is a difference in dates or amounts or staus as "paid", rather than getting a deletion.

 

If there were a FLAGRANT error or mistaken identification ( such as in your example, Pryan), then yes, send a copy of the certified judgment.

 

If the CRA does not correct or delete, then appropriate action including filed complaints can be taken, including civil suits against the CRA.

 

The difference in my approach to deletions of this type is basically that if you need to get something deleted, you also need a PROVEABLE violation on the part of the CRA , with a LEGAL paper trail in order to have any leverage. IMO a "claim" of improper or invalid "verification" is too easily open to interpretation.

[iluvthedusk]

And so I don't misinterpret here, I go down to the courthouse (or call the courthouse) and simply ask for a certified copy of the recorded judgment?

 

I have the down right? The court is the place I ask and this is what I ask for.

 

Is there generally a fee/waiting period for receiving this?

 

And once I do receive, any error whatsoever qualifies me for going down the path to disputing?

 

Thanks. why, for your input.

 

 

yes I would like to know this also. DH has two satisfied judgments that we would love to get off his reports!!

[fixitmister]

Whychat, I went down to the courthouse today and requested a copy of my judgment and the clerk pulled one page from the file (I saw the file, thick folder with all of the motions, etc.).

 

I have a hard time believing it, but is THiS the copy of my actual recorded judgment? All it has is the name of the court and court's address, docket number, and the amount of the base judgment -- it does not have the amount for attorney's fees just says, "attorney fees to be awarded."

 

It lists my name but no address for me. It has the name and sig of the court clerk.

 

Is there anything which gives me leverage here or is this how a judgment is supposed to look?

 

Thanks.

[Why Chat]

Whychat, I went down to the courthouse today and requested a copy of my judgment and the clerk pulled one page from the file (I saw the file, thick folder with all of the motions, etc.).

 

I have a hard time believing it, but is THiS the copy of my actual recorded judgment? All it has is the name of the court and court's address, docket number, and the amount of the base judgment -- it does not have the amount for attorney's fees just says, "attorney fees to be awarded."

 

It lists my name but no address for me. It has the name and sig of the court clerk.

 

Is there anything which gives me leverage here or is this how a judgment is supposed to look?

 

Thanks.

I don't know what the clerk "pulled" from your file, however, as I said before, you need to get a CERTIFIED COPY of the RECORDED judgment.

 

In most States, this is available ON LINE under your County Clerk's website.

 

If it was a RECORDED judgment it would have had a recording ID # and the date it was recorded, i.e. book and page #.

[fixitmister]

Whychat, your head would spin if I told you what I have had to go through to locate the clerk's office in my large city where requests for certified copies of recorded judgments can be made. It is a different recording clerk than the one who handles non-court records, and I only located that office after going down numerous dead ends handed to me by the court where the case was filed. So at least now I understand that the process for the CRA receiving "public records" information, such as judgments, comes from this specialized office where limited civil judgments are supposed to be recorded (and not from the OC or from the courthouse.)

 

Let me say this: The city in which I live has no method for requesting the document online. The only way to request is by mail, with enclosed check, or in person.

 

On the phone, the clerk will not tell me whether or not the judgment was recorded.

 

She says the only way to find out whether or not it was recorded is to make the request for the certified copy and if they don't have a copy of the recorded judgment then they will let me know by return mail; if they do have it they will send it to me.

 

I checked with the county's superior court online system and they allow search by case number -- the only thing I turned up there was the case summary (which doesn't include anything about whether or not the case was recorded.)

 

My Question: Is this a waking the sleeping giant situation? In other words, if the judgment was never "recorded" will the records division make an effort to obtain the judgment and record it? (I am guessing no since they have enough to do without making up for someone else's oversight, but I am curious to know your opinion.

 

Also, Whychat, thank you for being available to answer questions here; I can see that you are one of the mentors and guides to the masses of us seeking answers and I appreciate your time and efforts.

 

Whychat, I went down to the courthouse today and requested a copy of my judgment and the clerk pulled one page from the file (I saw the file, thick folder with all of the motions, etc.).

 

I have a hard time believing it, but is THiS the copy of my actual recorded judgment? All it has is the name of the court and court's address, docket number, and the amount of the base judgment -- it does not have the amount for attorney's fees just says, "attorney fees to be awarded."

 

It lists my name but no address for me. It has the name and sig of the court clerk.

 

Is there anything which gives me leverage here or is this how a judgment is supposed to look?

 

Thanks.

I don't know what the clerk "pulled" from your file, however, as I said before, you need to get a CERTIFIED COPY of the RECORDED judgment.

 

In most States, this is available ON LINE under your County Clerk's website.

 

If it was a RECORDED judgment it would have had a recording ID # and the date it was recorded, i.e. book and page #.

[Why Chat]

Whychat, your head would spin if I told you what I have had to go through to locate the clerk's office in my large city where requests for certified copies of recorded judgments can be made. It is a different recording clerk than the one who handles non-court records, and I only located that office after going down numerous dead ends handed to me by the court where the case was filed. So at least now I understand that the process for the CRA receiving "public records" information, such as judgments, comes from this specialized office where limited civil judgments are supposed to be recorded (and not from the OC or from the courthouse.)

 

Let me say this: The city in which I live has no method for requesting the document online. The only way to request is by mail, with enclosed check, or in person.

 

On the phone, the clerk will not tell me whether or not the judgment was recorded.

 

She says the only way to find out whether or not it was recorded is to make the request for the certified copy and if they don't have a copy of the recorded judgment then they will let me know by return mail; if they do have it they will send it to me.

 

I checked with the county's superior court online system and they allow search by case number -- the only thing I turned up there was the case summary (which doesn't include anything about whether or not the case was recorded.)If the summary does not include final adjudication then there is NO recorded judgment

 

My Question: Is this a waking the sleeping giant situation? In other words, if the judgment was never "recorded" will the records division make an effort to obtain the judgment and record it? (I am guessing no since they have enough to do without making up for someone else's oversight, but I am curious to know your opinion.

If the judgment was recorded, it is in the public records. If it was NOT recorded, your request for a certified copy will not create a problem, as the REASON it was not recorded is NOT a "clerical error" but the fact that the Court did not approve an actual entering of the judgment.

 

I don't know where you are looking on line, but if you will PM me your County and State I will get you the proper internet location to obtain a copy of a recorded judgment, ( or to see if there IS one at all).

[mbaez1953]

Whychat, your head would spin if I told you what I have had to go through to locate the clerk's office in my large city where requests for certified copies of recorded judgments can be made. It is a different recording clerk than the one who handles non-court records, and I only located that office after going down numerous dead ends handed to me by the court where the case was filed. So at least now I understand that the process for the CRA receiving "public records" information, such as judgments, comes from this specialized office where limited civil judgments are supposed to be recorded (and not from the OC or from the courthouse.)

 

Let me say this: The city in which I live has no method for requesting the document online. The only way to request is by mail, with enclosed check, or in person.

 

On the phone, the clerk will not tell me whether or not the judgment was recorded.

 

She says the only way to find out whether or not it was recorded is to make the request for the certified copy and if they don't have a copy of the recorded judgment then they will let me know by return mail; if they do have it they will send it to me.

 

I checked with the county's superior court online system and they allow search by case number -- the only thing I turned up there was the case summary (which doesn't include anything about whether or not the case was recorded.)If the summary does not include final adjudication then there is NO recorded judgment

 

My Question: Is this a waking the sleeping giant situation? In other words, if the judgment was never "recorded" will the records division make an effort to obtain the judgment and record it? (I am guessing no since they have enough to do without making up for someone else's oversight, but I am curious to know your opinion.

If the judgment was recorded, it is in the public records. If it was NOT recorded, your request for a certified copy will not create a problem, as the REASON it was not recorded is NOT a "clerical error" but the fact that the Court did not approve an actual entering of the judgment.

 

I don't know where you are looking on line, but if you will PM me your County and State I will get you the proper internet location to obtain a copy of a recorded judgment, ( or to see if there IS one at all).

 

 

IS THERE A PLACE I CAN GET JUDGEMENT INFORMATION ONLINE IN MIDDLESEX COUNTY NEW JERSEY

[Why Chat]

IS THERE A PLACE I CAN GET JUDGEMENT INFORMATION ONLINE IN MIDDLESEX COUNTY NEW JERSEY

Go to google, type in "middlesex county new jersey recorded documents"

 

You will probably be directed to Search Systems, you can use the system free, it just takes longer. Go to New Jersey, then Middlesex County look for the line that says "recorded documents".

[tozion]

Question pertaining to topic...

 

What do you do if the address for the location of the court/judgement on your CR is TOTALLY incorrect and doesn't even exist, yet it comes back verifed?

[Why Chat]

Question pertaining to topic...

 

What do you do if the address for the location of the court/judgement on your CR is TOTALLY incorrect and doesn't even exist, yet it comes back verifed?

If there is a discrepancy between the recorded judgment and the posted public record data on your credit report you can dispute it as I have posted before.

 

If you are saying that the Courthouse address has changed since the judgment was issued, I do not believe that is a disputable item.

 

( How do you KNOW the address doesn't exist?? have you sent mail to the address? Have you gone to SEE if it exists or looked it up on mapquest?? Many public buildings have a physical address that is not the mailing address)

[fixitmister]

Alas and alack, I have the recorded judgment. It is a three page document. The recording was requested by the plaintiff.

 

It looks to me, I say with sadness, like the attorney who filed it dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

 

First, here's how I got it:

 

Following Whychat's advice, I went to Searchsystems.net. I paid them $4.95 (I didn't see an option for not paying). After paying them, they referred me to courthousedirect. (Searchsystems did not have the document.) At courthousedirect, I paid $25 one-time fee and then $6.25 for the document itself, which I got in a downloaded TIFF format. (The courthousedirect site is only optimized for Internet Explorer -- if you use Firefox, you will not be able to see the page laid out properly.) So in all I paid $36.20 to get the document instantly vs the approximately $20 I would have paid had I gone downtown in person or gone through the one-to-week process via snail mail. Saved time and a possible trip, waiting in line, etc.

 

Well, the judgment is recorded and seems meticulously filled out. The recording itself is just one page. A second page shows the fee was paid and a third page shows who made the request.

 

NOTE: This judgment was entered pre-BK. It was included in my BK but there is nothing in the public record section (I wouldn't expect there to be) indicating that it was IIB.

 

The CR lists date filed as mm/yyyy. There is no actual day listed.

 

The listing in my Experian CR is very sparse. Has the name of the plaintiff and the amount of the judgment.

 

If I change addresses and have my old address deleted, will that make the judgment drop off?

[Why Chat]

Alas and alack, I have the recorded judgment. It is a three page document. The recording was requested by the plaintiff.

 

It looks to me, I say with sadness, like the attorney who filed it dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

 

First, here's how I got it:

 

Following Whychat's advice, I went to Searchsystems.net. I paid them $4.95 (I didn't see an option for not paying). After paying them, they referred me to courthousedirect. (Searchsystems did not have the document.) At courthousedirect, I paid $25 one-time fee and then $6.25 for the document itself, which I got in a downloaded TIFF format. (The courthousedirect site is only optimized for Internet Explorer -- if you use Firefox, you will not be able to see the page laid out properly.) So in all I paid $36.20 to get the document instantly vs the approximately $20 I would have paid had I gone downtown in person or gone through the one-to-week process via snail mail. Saved time and a possible trip, waiting in line, etc.

 

Well, the judgment is recorded and seems meticulously filled out. The recording itself is just one page. A second page shows the fee was paid and a third page shows who made the request.

 

NOTE: This judgment was entered pre-BK. It was included in my BK but there is nothing in the public record section (I wouldn't expect there to be) indicating that it was IIB.

 

The CR lists date filed as mm/yyyy. There is no actual day listed.

 

The listing in my Experian CR is very sparse. Has the name of the plaintiff and the amount of the judgment.

 

If I change addresses and have my old address deleted, will that make the judgment drop off?

Well, I am sorry you had to pay so much to get the data, however, you did find it and now you need to get it removed from your reports.

 

Opt out, get old addresses deleted and dispute it as "No such judgment of record from this Court for this date for this amount"

 

Because your BK is a public record, and the judgment was included in the BK, the public record search system the CRA's use would have cross matched the judgment and eliminated it as having been voided by the BK.

[dllceo]

Hello CBers. Just wanted to say I followed whychat's advice in his post of (10-1-06) to dispute judgements (I had 6 altogether). I sent a handwritten letter to EQ 2 weeks ago and everything I requested came off my report. All 6 judgements and 13 collection accounts should have read IIB but still showed a overdue balance. Of the 13 accounts 10 came off my report the other three all say IIB with $0 balance and no late. Under public information all 6 judgements are now off my report.

I did all this via one letter to Equifax . CB rocks! My Fico score did drop 28 pts but with my perfect payment history I'll just sit back and watch my accounts age. Thanks CB and a special thanks to whychat, psychdoc and a few others whose posts I have read till 4 and 5 in the morning .