Hospital Medical Collections 101

[purplecharm]

What rights do consumers have when it comes to disputing hospital medical collections?

 

I just recently found out that non-hospital medical collections have SOL but hospital medical collections don't.

 

 

What's the best way to deal with hospital medical collections?

 

TIA

[EasyMoney]

What rights do consumers have when it comes to disputing hospital medical collections?

 

I just recently found out that non-hospital medical collections have SOL but hospital medical collections don't.

 

 

What's the best way to deal with hospital medical collections?

 

TIA

 

 

Where did you learn that there is no SOL for hospital point of service medical collections?

[Why Chat]

What rights do consumers have when it comes to disputing hospital medical collections?

 

I just recently found out that non-hospital medical collections have SOL but hospital medical collections don't.

 

 

What's the best way to deal with hospital medical collections?

 

TIA

Opt out

Delete old addresses if possible

 

Send any CRA where any medical account is reporting, paid or unpaid hospital, Dr. or dentist ( anything except a veterinarian bill) this;( follow the directions)

http://whychat.5u.com/hipaadisp.html

 

Post back here with your results ( on THIS thread)

 

It is true that if you are SUED by a hospital or any other medical service that is "tax supported" and your ONLY defense is "SOL" that the Courts will likely rule against you. This started many years ago when people would run up big hospital bills and skip out on them, frequently going to another State or another Country for years. When they returned and were located, they tried to plead "SOL" the Courts found that it was against Public Policy to allow this as institutions that were tax supported IN ANY WAY were to be considered the SAME as a "Government" entity, i.e. NO SOL.

 

MOST of the SMALLER medical accounts on most credit reports that are from hospitals are NOT valid. The garbage CA's pick up left over discounted amounts and try to collect on them.

 

NOW, if YOUR problem is with a LARGE VALID debt from a hospital, and you have been unreachable for several years for whatever reason, then you should be careful about disputing unless you are ready willing and able to pay the hospital what is owed.

[purplecharm]

What rights do consumers have when it comes to disputing hospital medical collections?

 

I just recently found out that non-hospital medical collections have SOL but hospital medical collections don't.

 

 

What's the best way to deal with hospital medical collections?

 

TIA

 

 

Where did you learn that there is no SOL for hospital point of service medical collections?

 

On this board.

 

I started a thread last week about hospital medical collections that date back to 2000 and 2001.

 

Whycat mentioned that because they are hospital medical collections, there is no "legal" SOL.

 

Also, see his comment in this thread, which speaks to why they are treated differently.

[purplecharm]

What rights do consumers have when it comes to disputing hospital medical collections?

 

I just recently found out that non-hospital medical collections have SOL but hospital medical collections don't.

 

 

What's the best way to deal with hospital medical collections?

 

TIA

Opt out

Delete old addresses if possible

 

Send any CRA where any medical account is reporting, paid or unpaid hospital, Dr. or dentist ( anything except a veterinarian bill) this;( follow the directions)

http://whychat.5u.com/hipaadisp.html

 

Post back here with your results ( on THIS thread)

 

It is true that if you are SUED by a hospital or any other medical service that is "tax supported" and your ONLY defense is "SOL" that the Courts will likely rule against you. This started many years ago when people would run up big hospital bills and skip out on them, frequently going to another State or another Country for years. When they returned and were located, they tried to plead "SOL" the Courts found that it was against Public Policy to allow this as institutions that were tax supported IN ANY WAY were to be considered the SAME as a "Government" entity, i.e. NO SOL.

 

MOST of the SMALLER medical accounts on most credit reports that are from hospitals are NOT valid. The garbage CA's pick up left over discounted amounts and try to collect on them.

 

NOW, if YOUR problem is with a LARGE VALID debt from a hospital, and you have been unreachable for several years for whatever reason, then you should be careful about disputing unless you are ready willing and able to pay the hospital what is owed.

 

 

OK thanks. I will send out the letters to the CRA next week. I also plan on DVing Premium Asset again, because the reply they sent in response to my dv on one of the many collections they are claiming the right to collect on, they did not send me proper documentation. If they properly valid all the collections and the CRA's verify the collections, would it be best to just try to do a PFD? I really want to get rid of this so that I can move on.

[purplecharm]

bump

[bonbonXO]

purplecharm-

I also plan on DVing Premium Asset again, because the reply they sent in response to my dv on one of the many collections they are claiming the right to collect on, they did not send me proper documentation. If they properly valid all the collections and the CRA's verify the collections, would it be best to just try to do a PFD?

 

 

Don't do anything until you have the full investigation results back from the Pre Hippa Dispute- Don't communicate with the CA,

If the med collection (s) get "properly validate" why chat has "iron clad" PIF, for medical collection, but not even consider it until after you have the investigation results back from the Pre Hippa Dispute.

[purplecharm]

Thanks a bunch bonbonXO.

[purplecharm]

Per your request Whycat, I am updating this thread with the results.

 

The 2 hospital medical collections that Premium Asset reported to EX back in June are both gone.

 

I could not have done it with your help! Thanks a bunch.

[assetkicker]

Whychat

 

That isnt exactly correct about the SOL.

 

Hospital debt that is tax payer subsidized still has a SOL. The thing that "tolls" the SOL is mala fide actions that are meant to avoid payment.

 

One must leave state in order for the SOL to be tolled.

 

The mere fact that the debt is paid by taxpayers isnt what tolls the SOL. The DC has the burden of proving that you acted in bad faith by hiding to avoid payment. Absent evidence of that, the SOL is still intact even on unpaid hospital bills that are eventually paid by DOR.

 

The legality of ther SOL is intact absent evidence of this.

 

This is similar to the affirmative defense of laches. If you, in bad faith, purposely wait to file a claim until after the defendants star witness dies so they can not testify, the affirmative defense of laches is available even though the claim is within the SOL.

 

The mala fide behavior is why and the same applies to medical debts where the SOL is tolled by a bad faith effort to avoid payment.

 

This is not automatic and evidence of bad faith actions must be present.

 

An expired SOL is an ABSOLUTE affirmative defense on medical claims absent evidence of tolling.

 

A judge is in error if he rules otherwise and should be appealed for this mistake. What happens is that Pro Se litigants dont object and waive their right to appeal so the claim becomes valid.

 

They are barred from introducing new evidence on appeal.

 

Always object if a judge allows a time barred claim to be heard. Then, insist the judge rule on the objection to get it on the record as to preserve the right to appeal to a higher court if needed.

 

No appeals court would uphold a trial court error of that magnitude.

 

Medical debt is consumer debt and is covered under the FDCPA.

 

Student loans, court fines, tickets, and child support are not consumer debt which is why the SOL doesnt apply.

Edited August 13, 2008 by assetkicker

[undertakeress]

What do you mean by "tolls" ? Only reason I ask is my old medical collections (about 75 TL's) that I'm trying to get rid of are from 2002-2004 and in Colorado. I moved to Michigan in 2004.

[Why Chat]

Whychat

 

That isnt exactly correct about the SOL. NONSENSE

 

Hospital debt that is tax payer subsidized still has a SOL. The thing that "tolls" the SOL is mala fide actions that are meant to avoid payment. NONSENSE

 

One must leave state in order for the SOL to be tolled. NONSENSE

 

 

Student loans, court fines, tickets, and child support are not consumer debt which is why the SOL doesnt apply. NONSENSE

I am not going to get into a "quasi" legal argument with you.

 

You are mistaken

 

The reason "Governmental" debts are exempted from State's legal SOL's is found in the State Statutes.( as well as child support)

 

The fact that a Court will apply the appropriate State statutes to a lawsuit has nothing to do with "tolling" or "fraud".

By the way, you are also incorrect on tolling. Moving out of State does not toll the SOL unless there is fraud proven to avoid legal service.

 

As to your contention that a Judge can be sanctioned for applying the State exemption on Governmental debt to a SOL defense, please provide me with any case-law that supports this strange and illogical supposition.

[assetkicker]

I agree that government debt is defined in state statutes that way but government debt is defined as government debt.

 

Unpaid consumer debt isnt converted to government debt anywhere and only a perverted definition by some lame trial court judge could make that leap. The states all define medical debt as household debt. The only place where the states differ is in whether they are open or written contracts. Also, I never said that moving tolls the SOL but it can be used to make an argument that the SOL is intact since you moved out of state. The trier of fact would have to determine the motive based on credible facts.

 

Also, I never said the judge can be sanctioned.

 

I said he can be appealed.

 

But instead of engaging in a quasi legal argument, steer me to the statutes that define unpaid hospital bills as government debt if paid by the taxpayer.

 

Im not confused on anything.

 

You said the courts have ruled that too.

 

Where?

 

I know of no state law that makes the claim that medical debts, when unpaid, now suddenly become government debt.

 

Thats nonsense.

 

That is quite a stretch that would never hold up on appeal.

 

Youre spreading bad info as that would be on a state by state basis.

 

Start by naming one statute in just one state that defines unpaid consumer debt as "government" debt.

 

Just one...

 

Instead of arguing with me, cite me a state that does this and steer me to the appropriate statute.

 

Heres your chance to back up that nonsense.

Edited August 14, 2008 by assetkicker

[assetkicker]

Why Chat

 

I didnt come on here to be confrontational but you are convoluting legal theory.

 

The only time hospital debt can be considered government debt is if the Police take you in. A psych evaluation and drug test on a domestic violence arrest would be an example.

 

You are describing a trial court error if that happened.

 

Government isnt a party to Joe Blow going in without Police involvement.

 

Besides, when the debt is paid, even by government, the collection rights cease to exist since there are no damages for which to base a cause of action.

 

The Dept. of Revenue would have to be the creditor for it to be government debt.

 

Thats because they have legal standing and damages to base a cause of action.

 

This isnt a quasi legal process.

 

A mistake like you described would be big enough to drive a truck through.

 

But I can see a novice pro se defendant not knowing any of this and waiving the SOL by not objecting.

 

That has no precedental value though and is not law.

[assetkicker]

I think youre passing on bad info Why Chat

 

The judge cant ignore the SOL even if its your only affirmative defense. The SOL is an absolute defense if expired. Student loans, fines, DMV fees, library dues etc. all are exempt because they are not consumer debt and the government has standing as a party to the claim.

 

The collector can only get that immunity by collecting government debt for a government entity. The immunity is assigned in the agency relationship. Sallie Mae guarantees loans thru their programs so they are an involved entity.

 

Joe Blow who cuts his and with a knife and goes to the hospital accumulates a consumer oriented debt and his relationship is with the hospital and not the government. This differs from some guy the cops pick up on a domestic violence complaint and haul him to mental health for an evaluation and a drug test.

 

One is consumer debt and the other is government debt.

 

The governments relationship with the hospital doesnt alter the nature of the debt or the standing necesasary to bring a viable cause of action.

 

DOR can not legally collect consumer debt and only accounts regulated by DOR guidelines are exmpt from any state SOL.

 

Please dont tell me that my opinions are nonsense without a statute to back it up.

 

I never said a word about a judg ebeing sanctiuoned for not doing what the law requires. I said he can be asppealed for not following the rules of evidence admissability and have his decision overturned on that basis.

 

That would be a clear case of the judge acting beyond his authority.

 

Last, no state judge has the authority to redefine any federal definitons of the debt using state statutes as a guide.

 

The SOL is legal and applicable on consumer originated debts.

 

Period!

.

[loderunner]

Whychat:

 

You said "DO NOT send it RR" in regards to the pre-HIPAA letter. What does RR stand for?

 

As far as hand-addressing the envelope, using eye-catching colors and such... why do you think it's necessary to stand out (vs. showing professionalism)?

 

Are there any medical-dispute scenarios in which you'd advise against sending the pre-HIPAA letter to the credit bureaus?

 

NOW, if YOUR problem is with a LARGE VALID debt from a hospital, and you have been unreachable for several years for whatever reason, then you should be careful about disputing unless you are ready willing and able to pay the hospital what is owed.

 

My collection accounts total about $2600 (roughly $2100 being the biggest chunk), and they are listed as being two years old (though the incident is three years old.) The claim is "valid" insofar as services were performed; they were performed without my legal consent, but I think that would be quite hard for me to prove. At this point in time, I am fully able and willing (if necessary) to pay off the debt to make it go away. (By "go away", I mean removing the collection accounts from my credit reports entirely.)

 

It's also worth mentioning I had brief verbal and written contact with one of the collection agencies two years ago. I do not believe that the letter I wrote can be used against me (I used very precise language), but if nothing else it does show that I was aware of the claim shortly before it was submitted to the credit bureaus.

[undertakeress]

Asset, while I'm not as familiar with what you're discussing with Why Chat, I don't think you needed to post 3 posts basically stating the same thing, right in a row. You could edit your first post.

[Why Chat]

Whychat:

 

You said "DO NOT send it RR" in regards to the pre-HIPAA letter. What does RR stand for? return receipt

 

As far as hand-addressing the envelope, using eye-catching colors and such... why do you think it's necessary to stand out (vs. showing professionalism)? prevents automated computerized handling and "off-shore" CSR reponse

 

Are there any medical-dispute scenarios in which you'd advise against sending the pre-HIPAA letter to the credit bureaus?

 

NOW, if YOUR problem is with a LARGE VALID debt from a hospital, and you have been unreachable for several years for whatever reason, then you should be careful about disputing unless you are ready willing and able to pay the hospital what is owed.

 

My collection accounts total about $2600 (roughly $2100 being the biggest chunk), and they are listed as being two years old (though the incident is three years old.) The claim is "valid" insofar as services were performed; they were performed without my legal consent, but I think that would be quite hard for me to prove. At this point in time, I am fully able and willing (if necessary) to pay off the debt to make it go away. (By "go away", I mean removing the collection accounts from my credit reports entirely.)

 

It's also worth mentioning I had brief verbal and written contact with one of the collection agencies two years ago. I do not believe that the letter I wrote can be used against me (I used very precise language), but if nothing else it does show that I was aware of the claim shortly before it was submitted to the credit bureaus.

In general, if you have a VALID medical/hospital bill that is less than 4 years old, I suggest paying it to the OC with the HIPAA letter insert "a" AFTER using the "pre" HIPAA dispute letter to verify that the REPORTING CA is in CURRENT communication with the OC.

http://whychat.5u.com/hipltr.html

[loderunner]

Whychat: I want to thank you wholeheartedly for the tremendous effort you've obviously been putting into this. I will post my results here.

 

One last thing, what is the "courtesy letter" mentioned here http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=175055 ? I'm assuming this would be a notification of an impending HIPAA complaint, to be sent out right before one makes the actual complaint (assuming one was necessary... here's hoping it doesn't get that far.)

[bonbonXO]

loderunner

Whychat: I want to thank you wholeheartedly for the tremendous effort you've obviously been putting into this. I will post my results here.

 

One last thing, what is the "courtesy letter" mentioned here http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=175055 ? I'm assuming this would be a notification of an impending HIPAA complaint, to be sent out right before one makes the actual complaint (assuming one was necessary... here's hoping it doesn't get that far.)

 

Your are correct the courtesy letter would go to the HIPPA compliance department and (I have to double check this the legal department) with the OC, you give a 10 notice before you file a complaint with the OCR. You are absolutely right this is a last resort. You don't this only when you have been through all the steps in the HIPPA process. You may want to start you own thread too, it is easier if each person starts their own thread/post, it helps keep track of what is going on with only your situation and nothing gets mixed up with some one else's post. I am not scolding you, I am just trying to give you some helpful advice.

[assetkicker]

I was told by Nightstar at another site that WhyChat is the guru on this so I came by to find out.

 

I must say that Im just not seeing it.

 

Now, I can go back and report that he is full of it.

 

I came here to set the record straight but obviously his ego is bruised by some newbie on the board showing him up. He could have backed up his claim but has nothing to back it up with. I gave him plenty of red meat to work with. I didnt come to start an argument, I came to set his straight on some bad info that hes passing that adversely effects those in here and leaves them vulnerable to CA abuses. His unwillingness to engage in a debate shows hes more interested in being the big cheese on this site than he is with being accurate.

 

Take everything he says with a grain of salt because I can only wonder what other bad advice he is giving.

 

The response he gave insured me that he has no business weighing in on legal matters like that.

 

He may fool his little groupies on this site but he doesnt fool me.

 

Never willfully waive your rights. THats what he is teaching you to do.

 

People did for those rights.

 

Pathetic Why Chat!

 

You arent interested in doing your people a service. You are interested in being the big enchilada to appease your ego.

 

Otherwise, you would have engaged me for the benefit of your board.

 

I will now discredit you on the other board.

[purplecharm]

[Why Chat]

Do you have a question??

I have placed " Asset" on ignore, ( and I suggest everyone else does the same)

[Chris123]

Since these are going to the CRA (right?), how do we do it for multiple bills? Should we just send a separate letter for each one, or just add them all and send them in one letter? Obviously we shouldn't send it while there is already an open dispute, so we don't give them an extension on it. Can we send it with other disputes at the same time?

[Why Chat]

Since these are going to the CRA (right?), how do we do it for multiple bills? Should we just send a separate letter for each one, or just add them all and send them in one letter? Obviously we shouldn't send it while there is already an open dispute, so we don't give them an extension on it. Can we send it with other disputes at the same time?

The medical dispute letter to the CRA's should NOT be used while you have any other "open" disputes.

It should ONLY be used for MEDICAL accounts, and no other disputes at the same time.

Dear CRA,

My name is xxxxx xxxxxx , my SS # is xxx xx xxxx.

 

I am sending this dispute certified mail # xxxx to make sure you receive it.

 

I have no knowledge or records of the following accounts on my report # xxxxx;

account # xxxxx from xxxxxx .

account # xxxxx from xxxxxx

account # xxxxx from xxxxxx

etc. etc.

 

Please advise me as to the names and addresses of the medical providers, the dates and types of service,and to whom the services were provided, as any accounts I might have had would be obsolete.

 

If you can obtain this information, I also would need the names of the persons providing this data, and the manner in which it was provided in order that I may pursue additional legal remedies.

 

Very truly yours,

xxxxxx

 

Make sure you HAND ADDRESS the envelope, use personalized stationery and purple or teal font, ( preferably italic).

DO NOT send it RR -WAIT FOR THE FULL RESPONSE FROM THE CRA BEFORE CONTINUING WITH THE HIPAA LETTER PROCESS

 

You should list ALL your medical accounts, paid or unpaid in one dispute letter to each CRA, make sure the account names and #'s MATCH the CRA report you are disputing.