Marv please help. Complete purchase tommorrow/spot delivery question

[azjost]

We are dealing with a major Dodge/Chrysler dealer in NY.

 

At the beginning of June, this dealer told us that we could get a used Toyota Sienna for $21,000 financed through Chrysler at 10% with $10000 down. The dealer did admit it was a rental. My husband's credit score was 602, so we felt this interest rate was excellent. They did not have the van in hand, but we ran in with $1000 to get the process started. We were told that the financing was approved.

 

However, 2 weeks go by, no van. Apparently Enterprise Rental continued to let a customer drive it, saying that she refused to return it. Another week goes by, my salesperson went and retrieved it, but the condition of the van (bald, mismatched tires, not to mention the weeks and mileage tacked on) no longer warranted the price. He sent it back, and I let him hold onto the $1000 while he searched for another Sienna.

 

Well, we are now about 5 weeks since the Chrysler application was supposedly approved. We have not received a rejection letter or anything about it. However, the fear of losing that interest rate spurred me to reconsider getting something other than a Sienna.

 

Yesterday, we went in and saw a 2005 Chrysler Town and Country Touring, off lease, 22000 miles that had just come in. We liked it. The salesperson said that it would be certified, he accepted my offer of $18000 (although he tried to get $18900). He said that he'd talk to the financial person today and have the van ready today. I asked that they ask Chrysler to accept $8500 down on this since we were buying a cheaper van.

 

Today, I personally spoke to the finance person, and she said that it was approved. I asked for proof, but all she faxed was the form with the Truth in lending disclosure, with a rate of 9.49%, down payment, interest, payments, etc..

 

The salesperson also faxed me stuff, and amongst it was the "spot delivery" form. I told him that I am not at all comfortable with taking the van unless the financing is a done deal. I've just been through too much disappointment, I don't want to take it and have the fiancing fall through. I told him that I am willing to wait to pickup when Chrysler sends some acknowledgment or even the coupon book. He said (today) that I don't have to sign it, but that the loan was approved, and that sometimes they can take weeks to send a coupon book. He said he'd print out the screen that says we were approved.

 

He then moved onto the issue of an extended warranty, wanting to sell me powertrain wraparound for $1795. I told him that I'd think about it overnight, that I may go with warranty direct.

 

So we are to meet tommorrow. I am scared. My current van is dying more by the day and I want to get into this other van. I think that they have worked hard for me, despite my disappointments, but then again, these are not my friends, they are there to make a profit. My biggest concern is that I will bring in the remaining $7500 tommorrow and have to return the van a week from now because of a financing problem, and under that spot agreement, the could deduct wear from my deposit. Not to mention that they may make me wait to get my money.

 

How should I handle this? Pay them the rest of the money, sign the documents, but leave the van there until I get something from Chrysler? Or drive away with the van if he shows me the screen saying "approved"? Or should I sign the agreement, but insist on crossing out parts of the spot agreement asking us to pay for wear and tear if we have to bring it back?

 

Any help is appreciated.

[MarvBear]

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[MarvBear]

If they are of a mind to do so, they can pivot the screen and show you the approval, provided it exists.

 

Even so, you'd still have to sign the "spot delivery" documents.

 

I don't allow any document to be altered or "crossed out".

 

They don't want your money for "wear and tear" they want you to buy a car from them and they do NOT want you to have to bring it back.

[hurricanesfans27]

spot delivery form gets signed unless you have CASH on the table.

[MarvBear]

in my store Spot Delivery gets signed even with cash cash.

[hurricanesfans27]

in my store Spot Delivery gets signed even with cash cash.

 

 

 

in florida it is true.. even the cash can be fake lol.

[azjost]

I am sure that the dealer wants it to go through, but there is also such a thing as bad judgment and some people are risk takers.

 

That form specifically states that the financing is not finalized. But if they show me the screen saying "approved", I give them the money, sign the financing contract, then why should I sign a spot form that says that nothing is finalized?

 

How am I supposed to know when the financing is "finalized" and the van is safely "mine"?

 

What is really horrible is that since we began this car shopping process a month ago, all of the inquiries caused my husband's credit score to drop 20 points! So I have to be concerned that while they may have told the dealer "approved" on that screen, on closer scrutiny say a week from now, some supervisor at Chrysler will say "No way, jack up the rate 5% more!"

 

Again, how can I protect myself? It sounds like it's all about the dealers getting these forms from everybody, but when is this form voided?

[azjost]

I have a bank draft for my remaining deposit, so there's no question of authenticity on my part!

[MarvBear]

What really horrible is that sometimes consumer's don't always tell the truth.

 

Upon investigation and verification of the application when Daimler/Chrysler actually recieve's it, they find material misrepresentation, then they will of course not cash the contract.

 

Something so simple as the consumer not having full coverage insurance would cause a contract not to cash.

 

Without that "spot deliver" agreement, the dealer has no recourse.

 

You cannot purchase a vehicle for any amount of money, nor any method of payment in my store without signing that document.

 

One solution, is sign all the documents, wait till you get the first payment coupon/book somewhere between 30-45 days from the initial signing and then go back and pick up the vehicle if you really don't trust the dealership.

[azjost]

Geez, 35-40 days to get the coupon book? They told me that they can't put a hitch on until Wednesday. I'm eally concerned about taking delivery before everything is final, but a month is ridiculous. Maybe I should give them the money, sign the papers, and tell them that I will wait to pick up the van when the hitch is done on Wednesday. And I can urge them to get something in writing from Chrysler by Wednesday. I can't imagine why they can't get SOMETHING by then.

[MarvBear]

They already got it in writing if your loan is actually approved.

 

It will look something like this:

 

 

Dealership Name/Number:   Cxxxxx CHRYSLER Dxxxx Jxxxx-69999 /  

Applicant(s):   Dxxxxxxx , Fxxxxxxx  

Decision:   Approved	07/13/2007  07:34 PM  

Finance Source/FS APP #:   Chrysler Financial / 070713xxxxxxx Analyst/Phone :   /  






Application Details	   Decision Details Decision Details	 
R  - Transaction Type - R		
2005 Chrysler Town & Country  - Vehicle - 2005 CHRYSLER TOWN & COU APR Buy Down:	
$5049   - Financed Bal./Net Cap: - $5049 Lender Fees:	
$164   - Total Monthly Payment: - $162  Maximum Payment To Income:	
$8900   - Total Dn/Cap Cost Red: - $8900  Dealer Participation:	
36  - Term - 36 Maximum Mark Up:	
  - Tier - A+ Dealer Flat:	
  - Buy/Lease Rate: -  LTV Actual:	
  - Program -  

Application Comments:	





Reasons:	





Decision Comments:	
Dealer-entered amount used to value vehicle 





Stipulations:	





Standard Stipulations & Conditions:	
As part of a like-kind exchange program for leased vehicles, the owner of the
vehicle has engaged DCFS Account Services, LLC as a qualified intermediary.
Dealer is hereby notified that if this is a vehicle to be leased to a lessee,
that the owner of the vehicle has assigned to DCFS Account Services, LLC
its rights (but not its obligations) in the agreement for the purchase of this
vehicle. 




Message Log:	
From: Application Comments 
Message:  
Date/Time:

 

you'd still have to sign the spot delivery agreement though.

 

The above customer did.

[MarvBear]

usually your first payment is not due until sometime between 30-45 days from the initial signing. You should receive the coupon book/payment reminder shortly before due date.

[Starsky]

Looks like your customer got the same vehicle too as the one the OP wants Marv. Only they paid $4K less at your dealership

[azjost]

I talked to the salesperson today, he said that I am worrying myself needlessly. He said that the score was rerun and that in 18 years, he's only seen a creditor make a customer bring the car back because they had 2 other contracts out there. Maybe I can safely take the van...?

 

He's working on me on these extended warranties. I was going to decline to buy from the dealer and go with Warranty Direct for $1503 for Power Wrap, but now the dealer is coming back with Chrysler Maximum Care for $1895 which can be put into the financing. The only thing is that Warranty Direct is not only cheaper, but I can go anywhere. Anyone have opinions on it?

[azjost]

Well, we picked it up last night, and I signed that paper, along with about 10 others!

[MarvBear]

congrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrats.

[DRTDEVL]

I'm sorry, Marv, but your dealer would lose this customer.

 

Say I come home from Deployment in 2009, walk in, negotiate a cash price of $15,000 for a car on your lot, then bust out the cash.

 

You would let me walk for refusing a spot delivery agreement? How can the transaction go bad for you?

 

It's all legal tender, fresh from a local bank branch (with copy of withdrawl receipt, and that form I would have to sign for that >$10,000 cash transaction has been completed)...

 

How again could you lose the sale and money?

 

 

 

I think I'd find a dealer who would sell without the agreement myself. I, like your dealer, frown on being opened up to liabilities, too.

[hoapres]

I'm sorry, Marv, but your dealer would lose this customer.

 

Being third baseman i.e. helping one to buy a car has taught me one thing with regards to purchasing cars. The dealers (to a large extent) make the rules and are not likely to bend. I have sometimes with cash customers been able to minimize the CRs by making sure F&I knew it was cash. In some rare cases, i.e. personal relationship with the GM and the customer willing to wait a couple of days for the check to clear before picking up the car then (does not happen often) the purchaser would walk out with a CR pull.

 

As a third baseman, I tell customers to expect a credit pull but I will try to keep the inquiries to a minimum.

 

If you insist on "your way or the highway" then (It may not make sense but...) the dealer may very well tell you to take the highway.

 

 

Say I come home from Deployment in 2009, walk in, negotiate a cash price of $15,000 for a car on your lot, then bust out the cash.

 

You would let me walk for refusing a spot delivery agreement? How can the transaction go bad for you?

 

Quite likely, the majority of the dealers will tell you "to take the highway".

 

I agree that it may not make much business sense but that is the way (I suspect the majority of dealers and MarvBear may have a different opinion) it is.

 

It's all legal tender, fresh from a local bank branch (with copy of withdrawl receipt, and that form I would have to sign for that >$10,000 cash transaction has been completed)...

 

How again could you lose the sale and money?

 

See above. Happens more than you might think. I personally have seen one customer thrown out of a dealer for refusing to sign the five liner.

 

 

 

I think I'd find a dealer who would sell without the agreement myself. I, like your dealer, frown on being opened up to liabilities, too.

 

You might find a dealer but it is getting more and more difficult to do so. Particularly if the dealer is part of a big chain that has a "rule book" that you as the customer are going to have to follow (assuming you purchase a car) whether you like it or not.

 

I don't like it either (You should be able to buy a car for cash without a CR pull) but those are the facts of life.

[MarvBear]

You the consumer do not have to complete the IRS form 8300 nor even sign it. It would be done behind the scenes, you might expect it, but you would not be aware of it. If for suspicious transactions I am required to complete that form for any amount of cash.

 

There is so very much consumer fraud in the automobile business, it may be true dealers will err on the side of cautions in the required forms to be signed.