What exactly is "validation"?

[NoMoreFEMA]

While the consumer protection laws are stronger in Texas, neither State nor Federal Law defines what is considered “acceptable†or “proper†validation by a CA.

 

My DG/DF/DW has a CA attempting to collect for a purchased debt from Dish TV for about $300. It is not hers as she was not at the address (she was a previous resident and it looks as if the next tenant got her personal info and ordered the service). The CMRRR DV was sent and received. We got a letter yesterday from them basically saying “We verified the information with Dish TV…Name, Account #, Amount Owed, blah blah blah.†They basically provided the same info that is on her credit report and nothing else. I have a CA trying to use partial account "statements" printed off of a website as validation of a credit card that is not mine. My name, my social, but not my card. I didn't know about it until I started checking my credit reports.

 

As purported by creditinfocenter dot com, the following must be supplied by the CA...

What does a debt collector need to provide as debt validation?

 

Proof that the collection company owns the debt/or has been assigned the debt. (Bob is legally entitled to collect this particular debt from you.) This is basic contract law. It is very difficult to get a judgment without a direct contract between collection agency and the original creditor.

 

At a minimum, some account statements from the original creditor. If you really want to get sticky, you can pin them down on the amount of the debt by requiring complete payment history, starting with the original creditor. (How the heck did Bob calculate this debt? What fees/interest Bob has tacked on to this debt and how he determined these fees?) This requirement was established by the case Fields v. Wilber Law Firm, Donald L. Wilber and Kenneth Wilber, USCA-02-C-0072, 7th Circuit Court, Sept 2004..

 

Copy of the original signed loan agreement or credit card application. (Your contract with Joe establishing the debt between you.) However, account statements from the original can fulfill these requirements.

 

Additionally, I pay special attention to centex and her replies (nothing but respect).

Outside of litigation, they don't have to answer that stupid checklist that some still try to send. The best rule as pertains to validation is whether it would be sufficient to persuade a Court that you owed the money.

from this thread. Not to sound prissy, but how broad is that? Should I start taking my local judge out to dinner more often?!?

 

I have also read other threads concerning validation. What’s the use of even fighting a baddie if all the CA has to do is send you a printout and not have to provide an original signed contract, etc. etc.?

 

You: This is not proper validation!

Them: Yes it is!

You: No, it isn’t!

Them: Yes it is!

 

Am I missing something here? How can a CA provide “proper validation†if the term “validation†has not been defined? This is getting worse than dealing with FEMA! Comments or ideas anyone? Any newer cases out there? What works for you?

[Stryker]

Without being state specific, it is my opinion that validation is easily ascertained. The rule of thumb that centex refeernces is very straightforward as far as I am concerned. Could a reasonable person look at what was sent and infer ownership of the obligation?

 

Let's look at some of the original DV letters and the queries therein. I have seen some ask for signed contracts for stuff like online cell service. Why ask for stuff they do not have to provide?

 

It is simply a mindset. A DV does not necessarily help one escape a debt, and I think that is why it may seem underwhelming. What it does do is stave off overly rambunctious and law-ignoring collectors. It freezes them. Most people who lose lawsuits related to collections either ignore the summons, had ignored the obligation, or both.

 

So, I would pretend that every collection could go before a judge, and act accordingly. Request validation. If it is not up-to-par, send another letter. Generic print-out on company letterhead? The follow-up letter from me would reference that as well as the fact that I could have made that myself.

 

This is why I smile at folks who bulk at the expense of CMRRR. It is pricey, but when all the chips are down, I'd rather face a judge with documented proof that I had gone above and beyond with regards to due diligence.

 

Even when settling or attempting a PFD, I say your first salvo should be a DV. Why? You know you are negotiating with the right entity, not a dumpster-diver.

 

A big key is finding your alternative. if the debt is within SOL, is sizable, the CA has a litigious reputation and you do owe the debt, the DV period should be utilized coming up with safety nets. GW/recall wih OC, settlement offers etc.

 

Hope that helps a little.

[NoMoreFEMA]

It helps a bit, Stryker. But hell...how can you make a court believe that you ARE NOT resposible for a debt? GF and the dish thing for example. She lived at the apartment, received mail there, but was not on the lease. She moved out and was late (by about a month and a half) in submitting a change of address to USPS. We surmise the new people who moved in two days later got her info from the mail and ordered the Dish.

 

All her personal info on the account is correct (giving the CA the advantage). The $300 is not the issue. I can pay that yesterday. The issue is that this is not her bill. They won't show a signed receipt from when the installer visited (which we asked for and which would benefit us), and she feels "used" because of the other people stealing her identity. A police report was filed but the people have since moved and left no forwarding address. Combine this with a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude and you can understand how she feels.

 

Thus my reason for asking what exactly is considered "validation".

 

EDIT-->

Let's look at some of the original DV letters and the queries therein. I have seen some ask for signed contracts for stuff like online cell service. Why ask for stuff they do not have to provide?

What DO they HAVE to provide? VALIDATION. What is validation? THAT is the $64,000 question! Edited August 26, 2008 by NoMoreFEMA

[Guest grendel]

It helps a bit, Stryker. But hell...how can you make a court believe that you ARE NOT resposible for a debt? GF and the dish thing for example. She lived at the apartment, received mail there, but was not on the lease. She moved out and was late (by about a month and a half) in submitting a change of address to USPS. We surmise the new people who moved in two days later got her info from the mail and ordered the Dish.

 

All her personal info on the account is correct (giving the CA the advantage). The $300 is not the issue. I can pay that yesterday. The issue is that this is not her bill. They won't show a signed receipt from when the installer visited (which we asked for and which would benefit us), and she feels "used" because of the other people stealing her identity. A police report was filed but the people have since moved and left no forwarding address. Combine this with a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude and you can understand how she feels.

 

Thus my reason for asking what exactly is considered "validation".

 

EDIT-->

Let's look at some of the original DV letters and the queries therein. I have seen some ask for signed contracts for stuff like online cell service. Why ask for stuff they do not have to provide?

What DO they HAVE to provide? VALIDATION. What is validation? THAT is the $64,000 question!

 

 

So, now that she's found out about this, has she sent the ID theft report to the CA/OC?

 

Filed ID Theft/Fraud with the CRA?

 

Those are the items that will help a judge. Your question about normal forms an OC should have regarding installation is a good one, too. Asking for something they should have is a great form of validation. Have you tried going directly to the OC?

 

Simply, as a common man, I would expect a service that has to come to a residence to provide their service to have something with my signature on it, to prove it's mine.

[Stryker]

It helps a bit, Stryker. But hell...how can you make a court believe that you ARE NOT resposible for a debt? GF and the dish thing for example. She lived at the apartment, received mail there, but was not on the lease. She moved out and was late (by about a month and a half) in submitting a change of address to USPS. We surmise the new people who moved in two days later got her info from the mail and ordered the Dish.

 

All her personal info on the account is correct (giving the CA the advantage). The $300 is not the issue. I can pay that yesterday. The issue is that this is not her bill. They won't show a signed receipt from when the installer visited (which we asked for and which would benefit us), and she feels "used" because of the other people stealing her identity. A police report was filed but the people have since moved and left no forwarding address. Combine this with a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude and you can understand how she feels.

 

Thus my reason for asking what exactly is considered "validation".

 

EDIT-->

Let's look at some of the original DV letters and the queries therein. I have seen some ask for signed contracts for stuff like online cell service. Why ask for stuff they do not have to provide?

What DO they HAVE to provide? VALIDATION. What is validation? THAT is the $64,000 question!

 

 

I would take it out of the hands of the CA.

 

Now, I would DV them with a specific DV (the type Jen talks about).

 

Then, I would be getting at the OC.

 

CAs are full of one track people. Reasoning with them is almost always futile. A reasonable GW attempt, particularly if you can take care of any obligation assignable to you, is in order.

 

NMF, as far as the validation thing goes, obviously, YMMV. But, I always say, assume you are a judge. I believe most will at leas give some benefit of doubt to the consumer who has a paper trail, regardless of the documentation shown. This has to be tempered with common sense. If you owe the debt, I would suggest thinking of alternatives BEFORE getting to court, like settlement or PFD with or without recall.

 

IMHO, a printout on CA letterhead is not validation, and I am willing to bet that most judges would agree.

 

The biggest tool CA have is the default judgment. A DV trail helps prevent that.

[Kevin3344]

Simply put validation is proof the debt is yours. I have a 3-ring binder full of it...original contracts, account history, etc...certainly "we called the OC and the account #XYZ is yours" is not validation. I want to caution you, though, that a DV will solve everything...it won't...and in some cases you'll have to take it to the BBB, AG, or hire your own atty to get this straightened out. If they say "this is validation" and you say "no it's not", then you'll have to take another route. In most cases, though, I have optioned to settle if the amount was small even if they provided validation. "Choose your battles wisely" is a saying I strive to live by...I'm not going to spend all my time fighting over a $100-200 debt...if that's the case I would just settle.

[EarnIt]

Simply put validation is proof the debt is yours. I have a 3-ring binder full of it...original contracts, account history, etc...certainly "we called the OC and the account #XYZ is yours" is not validation. I want to caution you, though, that a DV will solve everything...it won't...and in some cases you'll have to take it to the BBB, AG, or hire your own atty to get this straightened out. If they say "this is validation" and you say "no it's not", then you'll have to take another route. In most cases, though, I have optioned to settle if the amount was small even if they provided validation. "Choose your battles wisely" is a saying I strive to live by...I'm not going to spend all my time fighting over a $100-200 debt...if that's the case I would just settle.

 

You owe me $150.00 please remit payment before I report you to the CRA.

 

To me, that is what the CA is doing in this case. And, I believe the term is extortion. OP, file a police report, fraud, ID theft, whatever is necessary if the debt is truly does not belong to your GF. Not doing so will leave you open down the road. I would hate to tell a judge,

 

Really it is not mine, but I was to lazy to file a police report, etc.

 

Most likely, the judge won't believe it.

[NoMoreFEMA]

Kevin...

in some cases you'll have to take it to the BBB, AG, or hire your own atty to get this straightened out. If they say "this is validation" and you say "no it's not", then you'll have to take another route. In most cases, though, I have optioned to settle if the amount was small even if they provided validation. "Choose your battles wisely" is a saying I strive to live by...I'm not going to spend all my time fighting over a $100-200 debt...if that's the case I would just settle.

BBB is, in the words of centex a "toothless tiger". I found that out for myself and washed my hands of them. Not worth the time, ink, paper and postage to deal with them. Especially when the BBB investigator has the legal council of the CA listed as "Jenny" on their outlook account (I got a copy of an unaltered email). I have had success with 2 baddies being removed by CA just by DV. This one intrigues me. Makes me wish I had listened to my momma and become a lawyer. All over $300.00, and yes, you can change my mane to "Bullheaded" or "Hardheaded" or whatever. I'm not paying. I think the best thing is to let them file suit and then counter.

 

Stryker...

Then, I would be getting at the OC.

 

CAs are full of one track people. Reasoning with them is almost always futile. A reasonable GW attempt, particularly if you can take care of any obligation assignable to you, is in order.

Debt has been purchased and OC won't play. One track people...ever delt with a computer stuck in a loop??? Why can't we just unplug the CA???

 

grendel...

So, now that she's found out about this, has she sent the ID theft report to the CA/OC?

 

Filed ID Theft/Fraud with the CRA?

 

Those are the items that will help a judge. Your question about normal forms an OC should have regarding installation is a good one, too. Asking for something they should have is a great form of validation. Have you tried going directly to the OC?

 

Simply, as a common man, I would expect a service that has to come to a residence to provide their service to have something with my signature on it, to prove it's mine.

CA says police report was filed after the debt was made and after they contacted us. I guess in their opinion WE are attempting to fraud them, even if they won't come right out and say it. OC doesn't care...CA purchased debt.

Yes

Asked for something they should have (service call receipt showing sig), but as usual, they say they don't have to provide that info. Billing is considered "proper" by them.

[Kevin3344]

Only you can decide who to contact (BBB, AG, your own atty?) and how far to take it...that is up to you. But there are other options. Of course parting with your hard-earned cash should always be your last resort..

[NoMoreFEMA]

Only you can decide who to contact (BBB, AG, your own atty?) and how far to take it...that is up to you. But there are other options. Of course parting with your hard-earned cash should always be your last resort..

 

 

It would be a cold day in he!! and the judge would have to be whacking me in the head with his gavel before I spun the combination dial on my wallet!

[Guest grendel]

Kevin...

in some cases you'll have to take it to the BBB, AG, or hire your own atty to get this straightened out. If they say "this is validation" and you say "no it's not", then you'll have to take another route. In most cases, though, I have optioned to settle if the amount was small even if they provided validation. "Choose your battles wisely" is a saying I strive to live by...I'm not going to spend all my time fighting over a $100-200 debt...if that's the case I would just settle.

BBB is, in the words of centex a "toothless tiger". I found that out for myself and washed my hands of them. Not worth the time, ink, paper and postage to deal with them. Especially when the BBB investigator has the legal council of the CA listed as "Jenny" on their outlook account (I got a copy of an unaltered email). I have had success with 2 baddies being removed by CA just by DV. This one intrigues me. Makes me wish I had listened to my momma and become a lawyer. All over $300.00, and yes, you can change my mane to "Bullheaded" or "Hardheaded" or whatever. I'm not paying. I think the best thing is to let them file suit and then counter.

 

Stryker...

Then, I would be getting at the OC.

 

CAs are full of one track people. Reasoning with them is almost always futile. A reasonable GW attempt, particularly if you can take care of any obligation assignable to you, is in order.

Debt has been purchased and OC won't play. One track people...ever delt with a computer stuck in a loop??? Why can't we just unplug the CA???

 

grendel...

So, now that she's found out about this, has she sent the ID theft report to the CA/OC?

 

Filed ID Theft/Fraud with the CRA?

 

Those are the items that will help a judge. Your question about normal forms an OC should have regarding installation is a good one, too. Asking for something they should have is a great form of validation. Have you tried going directly to the OC?

 

Simply, as a common man, I would expect a service that has to come to a residence to provide their service to have something with my signature on it, to prove it's mine.

CA says police report was filed after the debt was made and after they contacted us. I guess in their opinion WE are attempting to fraud them, even if they won't come right out and say it. OC doesn't care...CA purchased debt.

Yes

Asked for something they should have (service call receipt showing sig), but as usual, they say they don't have to provide that info. Billing is considered "proper" by them.

 

Yes, but you asked what was reasonable to a Judge/Jury to determine if your validation request is reasonable. I'd sue them. Basically, this is a poker game. They don't have what it takes and it's time to call their bluff.

Edited August 26, 2008 by grendel

[Stryker]

Don't forget that going through the BB could look good for you down the road, if it got to court.

[NoMoreFEMA]

grandel...

Yes, but you asked what was reasonable to a Judge/Jury to determine if your validation request is reasonable. I'd sue them. Basically, this is a poker game. They don't have what it takes and it's time to call their bluff.

Then all I need is a copy of a pleading paper. Got the filing & service fees right here (digging in right pocket). Hate to bring crappy looking complaint to a judge. Maybe ask him about it at dinner tomorrow?!? Seriously, that is something I have not seen here...pleading papers for State or Federal. I would have no idea how to start to represent myself as far as writing a pleading paper or complaint. Can read and comprehend the laws, but can't...loss of words...enact them? Does that sound right? Google here I come!

 

Stryker...

Don't forget that going through the BB could look good for you down the road, if it got to court.

Yah, I guess you are right. One of the reasons I like it here. Different perspective from different people. Keeps your eye on the ball. Thanks.

[Kevin3344]

Don't forget that going through the BB could look good for you down the road, if it got to court.

 

Good point, by the way, the BBB worked for me. I tried everything to get rid of a CA (it was either AFNI or NCO, forgot now) even DV'd, and they responded with a full account history. I thought I was stuck. I contacted the BBB from the state where they had an office and 30 days later, presto, the CA agreed to delete.

 

That's not the end of the story though, and as Stryker mentioned another reason why you should enlist their help...

 

2 years later a new CA came calling for the same debt. See how these things go? I sent them a C&D CMRRR - but also copied the letter from the CA and the BBB that said "case closed" - and sent that to them as well.

 

Just something to keep in mind. The more of paper trail you can have the better..

[Guest grendel]

To be specific: As you've already found, there's no set recipe of what validation is. The debts vary, as do the documents and processes used to create those debts. I often wonder HOW internet transactions/accounts can really be valid at all...so, I fall back to the reasonable man test: What would my peers consider proof that a debt is mine. Some is obvious, others not so much. It's craptacular.

 

As for suing them, I'd go small claims... plainly worded, hand written. No need for legal jargon.

[NoMoreFEMA]

Don't forget that going through the BB could look good for you down the road, if it got to court.

 

Good point, by the way, the BBB worked for me. I tried everything to get rid of a CA (it was either AFNI or NCO, forgot now) even DV'd, and they responded with a full account history. I thought I was stuck. I contacted the BBB from the state where they had an office and 30 days later, presto, the CA agreed to delete.

 

That's not the end of the story though, and as Stryker mentioned another reason why you should enlist their help...

 

2 years later a new CA came calling for the same debt. See how these things go? I sent them a C&D CMRRR - but also copied the letter from the CA and the BBB that said "case closed" - and sent that to them as well.

 

Just something to keep in mind. The more of paper trail you can have the better..

 

 

Yah, I got to thinking of different "circumstances" where more is better after reading Stryker's response. Now if I could justify more beer being better...

[Jen23514]

Despite finding your attitude kinda crappy (if you want to eye roll at mods/leads/and those that have BTDT, then I'm going to assume you're probably not going to listen to me either), I'll put in my opinion............ only because there might be others reading this thread that find it useful.

 

 

Kevin...

in some cases you'll have to take it to the BBB, AG, or hire your own atty to get this straightened out. If they say "this is validation" and you say "no it's not", then you'll have to take another route. In most cases, though, I have optioned to settle if the amount was small even if they provided validation. "Choose your battles wisely" is a saying I strive to live by...I'm not going to spend all my time fighting over a $100-200 debt...if that's the case I would just settle.

BBB is, in the words of centex a "toothless tiger". I found that out for myself and washed my hands of them. Not worth the time, ink, paper and postage to deal with them. Especially when the BBB investigator has the legal council of the CA listed as "Jenny" on their outlook account (I got a copy of an unaltered email). I have had success with 2 baddies being removed by CA just by DV. This one intrigues me. Makes me wish I had listened to my momma and become a lawyer. All over $300.00, and yes, you can change my mane to "Bullheaded" or "Hardheaded" or whatever. I'm not paying. I think the best thing is to let them file suit and then counter.

 

 

They may be a "toothless tiger" in some regards, but there has been lots of documented success on this board by using them. Myself included. It may not be worth the time IYO, but I think that is because you already "know" what will work and what won't. Since you know this won't work, you're not willing to try.

 

If you want to counter, that is fine..... but what are you going to counter with? "they wouldn't validate my debt"? "they wouldn't respond to my letters"? Seriously, you need to find what they are in violation of, or stop whining that they won't provide you with a contract.

 

 

 

 

Stryker...

Then, I would be getting at the OC. CAs are full of one track people. Reasoning with them is almost always futile. A reasonable GW attempt, particularly if you can take care of any obligation assignable to you, is in order.

Debt has been purchased and OC won't play. One track people...ever delt with a computer stuck in a loop??? Why can't we just unplug the CA???

 

Are they reporting? ( I assume so since your so upset by this). If so, then you need to attack them as a data furnisher per the FCRA. If you go to my profile (or in my siggy maybe) there is a link to a FDCPA/FCRA dispute. But you need to add some teeth to your dispute. I'm guessing that they didn't take your first DV seriously by reading the troubles you've having.

 

 

grendel...

So, now that she's found out about this, has she sent the ID theft report to the CA/OC?

 

Filed ID Theft/Fraud with the CRA?

 

Those are the items that will help a judge. Your question about normal forms an OC should have regarding installation is a good one, too. Asking for something they should have is a great form of validation. Have you tried going directly to the OC?

 

Simply, as a common man, I would expect a service that has to come to a residence to provide their service to have something with my signature on it, to prove it's mine.

CA says police report was filed after the debt was made and after they contacted us. I guess in their opinion WE are attempting to fraud them, even if they won't come right out and say it. OC doesn't care...CA purchased debt.

Yes

Asked for something they should have (service call receipt showing sig), but as usual, they say they don't have to provide that info. Billing is considered "proper" by them.

 

How were you supposed to know about the debt before they notified you? It doesn't mean much legally, but I've had good luck writing up an affidavit of fact (or something to that effect) stating the facts, then having my signature notarized and sending it to a JDB. They seem to know you're serious and getting it notarized takes less than 5 min at my CU.

 

 

 

grandel...

Yes, but you asked what was reasonable to a Judge/Jury to determine if your validation request is reasonable. I'd sue them. Basically, this is a poker game. They don't have what it takes and it's time to call their bluff.

Then all I need is a copy of a pleading paper. Got the filing & service fees right here (digging in right pocket). Hate to bring crappy looking complaint to a judge. Maybe ask him about it at dinner tomorrow?!? Seriously, that is something I have not seen here...pleading papers for State or Federal. I would have no idea how to start to represent myself as far as writing a pleading paper or complaint. Can read and comprehend the laws, but can't...loss of words...enact them? Does that sound right? Google here I come!

 

Stryker...

Don't forget that going through the BB could look good for you down the road, if it got to court.

Yah, I guess you are right. One of the reasons I like it here. Different perspective from different people. Keeps your eye on the ball. Thanks.

 

There are copies of filings around here, and you are free to use PACER to look up and see if there have been other suits filed against this JDB. You'll want to brush up on RCPs and go to a local law library and look at the self help books by NOLO. My courthouse has a law library in the basement for the public.

 

Also, I want to point out one more thing, your first line in this topic said:

While the consumer protection laws are stronger in Texas, neither State nor Federal Law defines what is considered �€œacceptable�€� or �€œproper�€� validation by a CA.

 

No, it doesn't. But you are lucky that under TX law, there are strict guidelines and it would be WELL worth your time to read the threads around here about the Texas Finance Code and how it PROBABLY applies your situation

 

 

We can't define validation for you. The CA can't define it either. Either you can accept what they send you or you keep fighting.

 

 

If I were you?

 

Take the police report, and make a notarized affidavit that the debt is not hers and at no time has she had service with Dish, write up a FDCPA/FCRA dispute letter, put all of this together and send them a FULL C&D and nicely tell them to FOAD and remove it from your reports. Make sure it is plain as day that you have also sent all this information to the following:

 

Then send a copy to your local DA and emphasize the fact that not only are they harming her credit score, but ask the DA to consider how many uninformed consumers in your great county they may also be harassing and ask him NICELY to look into the matter. Use your state laws to back up your complaint.

 

THen send a copy to your state AG and emphasize the fact that not only are they harming her credit score, but ask the AG to consider how many uninformed consumers in your great state they may also be harassing and ask him NICELY to look into the matter. Use your state laws to back up your complaint.

 

THen send a copy to the FTC and file a complaint.

 

Then send a copy to the BBB and file a complaint.

 

You might also want to look up their registered agent and CC him as well, and also let the agent know by signing for this, you are also confirming the address at which papers will be served if this is not off her report in 15 days.

 

Then after all those letters have been signed for, send a dispute to the CRAs

 

overkill? maybe. But really it goes quicker than it looks (the letter to the CA takes the longest I think), and frankly, after a judge (if you do sue to get it off) sees all the effort you went into get this removed, I think the point will be made and they will have to reimburse you for your costs and I would explore if you're allowed any additional for other damages.

 

good luck.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jen23514

[yellorose]

NOMOREFEMA - I like Jen's advice and I bet it would work for you. I was going to suggest turning the tables on them. remember that they probably think they are right, so a well thought out letter outlining the problems with their reporting and validation cc'd to all the right people will be what you need to start with, even if you do eventually pursue a suit.

 

include the department of consumer affairs, if you have one, and have a look at the Texas state AG's website to see if it lists who oversees which professions, there may be another entity like the utility commission that they have to answer to.

 

just my .02. I wouldnt settle either, but that's me.

[NoMoreFEMA]

JEN23514...

 

Despite finding your attitude kinda crappy (if you want to eye roll at mods/leads/and those that have BTDT, then I'm going to assume you're probably not going to listen to me either), I'll put in my opinion............

 

I do believe I have found everyone's opinion helpful and/or informative. Thus the reason for answering personally to each person by quoting the information given. Not that I would expect everyone to understand or appreciate that. You feel that my attitude is "kinda" crappy? You've BTDT...how was your attitude? Now you want to try and pull that splinter out of your own eye? Eye roll at who?? Eye roll when speaking of CAs and laws that are incomplete? Yes. Eye roll mods/leads/others? Perhaps you need to read my posts again?

 

They may be a "toothless tiger" in some regards, but there has been lots of documented success on this board by using them. Myself included. It may not be worth the time IYO, but I think that is because you already "know" what will work and what won't. Since you know this won't work, you're not willing to try.

 

If you want to counter, that is fine..... but what are you going to counter with? "they wouldn't validate my debt"? "they wouldn't respond to my letters"? Seriously, you need to find what they are in violation of, or stop whining that they won't provide you with a contract.

 

I too have read about using the BBB. In this very post, AFTER saying I washed my hands of them, I recanted because of what Stryker posted. I guess that's not listening too, right? As far as countering, I can actualy file against them myself or wait for them and then counter. I would rather not do so for reasons outlined below, but will if forced to.

 

My whole point exactly. All the talk of "validation" on this board, yet NO ONE can say what proper validation is because the LAWS don't define the term "validation". If it was proof positive beyond a shadow of a doubt evidence of ownership of a debt (ie: signature on a contract), then that would clear up a bunch, don't you agree? So what exactly is ANY CA in violation of if no one, not even the lawmakers, know what validation is? I hope you get my overexagerated point here. I didn't wine about them not providing a contract. I stated a fact.

 

Are they reporting? ( I assume so since your so upset by this). If so, then you need to attack them as a data furnisher per the FCRA. If you go to my profile (or in my siggy maybe) there is a link to a FDCPA/FCRA dispute. But you need to add some teeth to your dispute. I'm guessing that they didn't take your first DV seriously by reading the troubles you've having.

 

Yes. Already attacked them as data furnisher with state law. Ball is in my court right now because they sent their "validation". Thus the post that started this all. I have seen your profile and I have even noticed how regular you are. Just like Stryker, centex and a number of veterans. I have picked up a lot since starting a short time ago and still value your-and everyone elses-words of wisdom.

 

How were you supposed to know about the debt before they notified you? It doesn't mean much legally, but I've had good luck writing up an affidavit of fact (or something to that effect) stating the facts, then having my signature notarized and sending it to a JDB. They seem to know you're serious and getting it notarized takes less than 5 min at my CU.

 

I never thought of doing that. I've read about it...makes them think you are a sue happy nut job. Read that thread, never tried it though. Perhaps now is the time.

 

There are copies of filings around here, and you are free to use PACER to look up and see if there have been other suits filed against this JDB. You'll want to brush up on RCPs and go to a local law library and look at the self help books by NOLO. My courthouse has a law library in the basement for the public.

 

Also, I want to point out one more thing, your first line in this topic said:

While the consumer protection laws are stronger in Texas, neither State nor Federal Law defines what is considered �€œacceptable�€� or �€œproper�€� validation by a CA.

 

No, it doesn't. But you are lucky that under TX law, there are strict guidelines and it would be WELL worth your time to read the threads around here about the Texas Finance Code and how it PROBABLY applies your situation

 

Did not find filings on CB. Will look some more, as I was doing prior to reading your post. Did not know about PACER or NOLO. Of course, before speaking with centex I did not know you could look up bonds on the internet either. Like I said before...different perspectives from different people. While I'm no centex, I am AWARE of the laws in Texas as it pertains to debt collection, consumer protection, property, etc (head nod to centex). I just have never praticed exercising those laws in court by myself through self-representation. Hell, you're talking to a guy that had his attorney show up for speeding tickets. Well, the attorney has been dead for some time and I'm a bit troubled at trusting anyone else.

 

We can't define validation for you. The CA can't define it either. Either you can accept what they send you or you keep fighting.

 

Obviously. As stated before, I wish the law was rewritten to define validation that way it would be a more even playing field.

 

If I were you?

 

Aparently you don't know me or you would not have inserted that. As I am banned from using emoticons...hahah. <smile> Uh oh. Crappy attitude reappearing????

 

Take the police report, and make a notarized affidavit that the debt is not hers and at no time has she had service with Dish, write up a FDCPA/FCRA dispute letter, put all of this together and send them a FULL C&D and nicely tell them to FOAD and remove it from your reports. Make sure it is plain as day that you have also sent all this information to the following:

 

Police report is in hand, stamped true and original copy, affidavit is already in the works. I have been advised through reading other threads not to invoke FDCPA/FCRA as it would give the CA a chance to argue that the case needs to be moved to federal. Argue using state statutes only. As far as a nice FOAD letter...is that not a contridiction in terms? I would think litigation would serve that purpose.

 

Then send a copy to your local DA and emphasize the fact that not only are they harming her credit score, but ask the DA to consider how many uninformed consumers in your great county they may also be harassing and ask him NICELY to look into the matter. Use your state laws to back up your complaint.

 

DA ain't gonna touch this...he'll bounce to AG.

 

THen send a copy to your state AG and emphasize the fact that not only are they harming her credit score, but ask the AG to consider how many uninformed consumers in your great state they may also be harassing and ask him NICELY to look into the matter. Use your state laws to back up your complaint.

 

Already contacted the AG via CMRRR, and I WAS NICE, with no crappy attitude. Waiting on response.

 

Already contacted the Ag in NY via CMRRR, and I WAS NICE, with no crappy attitude. Waiting on response.

 

THen send a copy to the FTC and file a complaint.

 

See above for FDCPA/FCRA.

 

Then send a copy to the BBB and file a complaint.

 

TX BBB-We don't handle it so case closed.

 

NY BBB-Email from Jenny (CA legal) to BBBNY "We validated properly", BBBNY responded to us "If they validated then case closed".

 

You might also want to look up their registered agent and CC him as well, and also let the agent know by signing for this, you are also confirming the address at which papers will be served if this is not off her report in 15 days.

 

Why the registered agent? What's the difference? Company gets the letters, right? I send my stuff to company first, then legal dept. Also sent letter to bondholder advising of the situation and that she would seek a claim against the bond if not resolved. IN A NICE WAY. <more smiles>

 

Then after all those letters have been signed for, send a dispute to the CRAs

 

Not everything signed for. Holding.

 

overkill? maybe. But really it goes quicker than it looks (the letter to the CA takes the longest I think), and frankly, after a judge (if you do sue to get it off) sees all the effort you went into get this removed, I think the point will be made and they will have to reimburse you for your costs and I would explore if you're allowed any additional for other damages.

 

The last set of letter I sent out to a CA, Bondholder, BBB in both states and AG in both states contained 20 pages plus the cover letter. 6 letter = $45.?? in postage. I don't think anything is overkill when dealing with people like this. Original records are kept in a 3 ring binder stored in a fire resistant vault. Copies are scanned into PDF and stored on my laptop and archived off-site. Hard copies are used for working each tradeline. Excel spreadsheet used to track info from CR, CMRRR #, date sent, date arrived, number of days for their response, etc.

 

good luck.

 

Thank you. I wish you all the best in your future, look forward to reading your upcomming posts, and posting with you again. But only if I can use emoticons.

[Jen23514]

 

forget it. I was going to help, but after reading your little quips.... not to mention the way you quote posts and respond makes it hard to read and difficult to respond. Also, if you're going to quote me, quote me in context or not at all.

 

since there was no way you investigated what I said (and why you CAN include your DA and if you were a little less snide, I would tell you which poster has had success with it) in the short time it took you to respond... you're on your own or at the mercy of someone else. I have nothing to add here.

 

I've had over 100 deletes.... I've used dozens of different methods..... you have some preconceived idea of what will work and what won't. I'm not saying my way is best, but I've helped enough that I have a gut feeling what it will take to get it done. YYMV of course.

 

maybe once you've been here more than 2 months and read thousands of posts, you'll see what i'm talking about. Good luck.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Jen23514

[NoMoreFEMA]

NOMOREFEMA - I like Jen's advice and I bet it would work for you. I was going to suggest turning the tables on them. remember that they probably think they are right, so a well thought out letter outlining the problems with their reporting and validation cc'd to all the right people will be what you need to start with, even if you do eventually pursue a suit.

 

include the department of consumer affairs, if you have one, and have a look at the Texas state AG's website to see if it lists who oversees which professions, there may be another entity like the utility commission that they have to answer to.

 

just my .02. I wouldnt settle either, but that's me.

 

Hi yellowrose! The first person to respond to my first post I believe! Either you or pryan. FYI thanks to both of you and your insights, I got 2 off my record. THANK YOU!

 

Your .02 is worth WAY more than .02! The AGs office is the way to go it seems. Consumer Affairs is bundled under the AG. BBB here doesn't want to touch it because the CA is not based in TX. From the letter, BBB NY is in bed with the CA.

 

Interesting info...TX Finance Code 392.306 states

A creditor may not use an independent debt collector if the creditor has actual knowledge that the independent debt collector repeatedly or continuously engages in acts or practices that are prohibited by

this chapter.

 

Wouldn't that be something...tell an OC "Sorry, you can't use XYZ to collect on my debt because they have been found guilty of _____. Find another collector or I'll go after you next." Beauty of it is that the OC would have to do their own collecting. All CAs have "engaged in acts or pratices that are prohibited", so how could they use any of them? Another attack angle? Hehehe.

[yellorose]

thanks for nice words, NoMoreFema! I remember your first post.

 

the best thing about this situation is that you are in the great state of Texas! they dont play.

 

I wish you luck!

[Guest grendel]

 

forget it. I was going to help, but after reading your little quips.... not to mention the way you quote posts and respond makes it hard to read and difficult to respond. Also, if you're going to quote me, quote me in context or not at all.

 

since there was no way you investigated what I said (and why you CAN include your DA and if you were a little less snide, I would tell you which poster has had success with it) in the short time it took you to respond... you're on your own or at the mercy of someone else. I have nothing to add here.

 

I've had over 100 deletes.... I've used dozens of different methods..... you have some preconceived idea of what will work and what won't. I'm not saying my way is best, but I've helped enough that I have a gut feeling what it will take to get it done. YYMV of course.

 

maybe once you've been here more than 2 months and read thousands of posts, you'll see what i'm talking about. Good luck.

 

I am just not reading what you're reading. I didn't see any quips or negative behavior.

 

OP, sounds like you're in a holding pattern until you get more data back.

[centex]

At its simplest and most basic level, a clear and concise definition cannot exist because what it takes to prove up a claim depends on the nature of the claim and what element of the claim is being disputed. Further, the rules regarding electronic signatures that have come into play over the past decade or so drastically altered the landscape insofar as having documents with a real signature...nowadays, the 'signature' is typed in and the consumer clicked the SUBMIT key on the internet application.

 

Another problem is that people tend to ask for too much CRAP that is irrelevant. They need to focus on essential elements. Remember that the DV process is not DISCOVERY which means that much of what might be available in the litigation processes need not be presented upon demand by the consumer outside of litigation.

 

In the case presented by the OP, there was never a clearer case for the fraud report submitted to the police. You were not the one who subscribed to the service, you were not living there at the time of the service and the method of payment that cite was not one that belonged to you. Further, the new lease (or mortgage contract if applicable) should demonstrate that you were had moved elsewhere by the time service was established.

 

In addition to the police report, it would not take a lot of time to use the account number on the card they show was used and determine what bank it was issued by...my guess is that a bank would be willing to provide a letter corroborating that the card was not issued to you or anyone in your family.

 

As to cozying up with local judges...hey, it never hurts to know them, and in a small community, it becomes even easier. Campaign contributions, even when they are only $25 or $50, can be money well spent when you figure out the returns that include knowing who's who, the BBQ events you may get invited to and the ease of communicating with them on matters unrelated to a docketed event. With a pending move, I learned that one of the people learning to fly at the airport I will be in and out of is an ADA who often comes out to fly with one of the judges. Getting to know those in power in settings outside of the courthouse is rarely a bad thing...

[d00daa]

 

forget it. I was going to help, but after reading your little quips.... not to mention the way you quote posts and respond makes it hard to read and difficult to respond. Also, if you're going to quote me, quote me in context or not at all.

 

since there was no way you investigated what I said (and why you CAN include your DA and if you were a little less snide, I would tell you which poster has had success with it) in the short time it took you to respond... you're on your own or at the mercy of someone else. I have nothing to add here.

 

I've had over 100 deletes.... I've used dozens of different methods..... you have some preconceived idea of what will work and what won't. I'm not saying my way is best, but I've helped enough that I have a gut feeling what it will take to get it done. YYMV of course.

 

maybe once you've been here more than 2 months and read thousands of posts, you'll see what i'm talking about. Good luck.

 

 

Wow. Overreact much?

Edited August 29, 2008 by d00daa