Another look at Goodwill and PFD arrangements

[Stryker]

Okay...

 

I promised that I would do this. Hopefully, we can input from the general body to make one, all-encompassing thread.

 

For simplicity, I am dealing with goodwill arrangements borne out of CR baddies assigned/or sold to CAs.

 

First, I believe that goodwill arrangements are mostly about diplomacy. You have to be a good diplomat, and a good diplomat has to have an outlook based on healthy measures of empathy, optimism and honesty. You have to believe that you have a chance, but you have to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the creditor.

 

Let us look at the empathy part. You are a CSR at a major bank. A customer who has been delinquent calls you, and asks for a goodwill adjustment of an over-the-limit fee. Maybe you have the power to remove it, maybe not, but in that brief moment, you hold the power over

that customer. The likelihood of that customer receiving any help depends on, frankly, whether or not you feel like giving it. Your

performance and response to customers depends on a myriad of factors: nasty boss, ticked off spouse, unrealistic work quotas.

 

Now, compare that with the CEO. Wanna know the biggest difference between him/her and the frontline CSR? Yep, it's money, but IMHO, it isn't necessary cash. The CEO is almost always way more vested than anyone else. Simply put, there is more of the CEO's soul in that company, and rightfully so. They get paid the big bucks.

 

So obviously, shouldn't be too hard of a choice. CEO every time, right?

 

Wrong.

 

CEOs are the most insulated people in corporate America. When you think of all they go through, it isn't too hard to see why. When you communicate with one, you can be assured that regardless of the mode of contact, even if you get a response, it is not coming directly from the CEO. Welcome to a new term: The Executive Office. It is a euphemism for the special forces-trained team of people whose main job is to ensure NOTHING gets to the CEO.

 

You may be one of those people that has a knack for piercing through the red tape and getting to the head guy or gal. Great! Well now, your in the hands of the final decision maker. Good? Well, yeah. But that sword swings both ways.

What happens if your hero says no? Case closed. You're outta luck.

 

I propose that you stay away from both the top rung and the bottom rung. Start smack dab in the middle. Find a mid-level executive. Make it personal.

 

I don't mean that one need take any negative answer as a personal affront that must be met with profanity-laced abuse. Basically, I believe that generic letters sent to generic departments (read Executive Office) have their place, but a lot of times, you will just get a generic answer, most likely a "no" cloaked in extra-flowery language.

 

When I say "make it personal," I mean make this mid-level exec your ally. Make your issue his/her issue. Make them empathize with you. Make this person understand that his/her help is invaluable. Make someone responsible for caring.

 

Now, how do you approach this? How do you initiate contact? Heck, how do you find a good contact?

 

BE PREPARED TO PAY. IN FULL!

Finding a mid level exec is possible, and it may require an intense amount of work. All you really need is internet access, a simple understanding of Google, a few hours to spare, and patience.

 

(Let me preface this part by saying that I am an email kinda guy, so most of this portion will pertain to email contact. I'll explain my rationale later). Almost every major corporate website has list of senior management in the "About Us" or "Who We Are" section. I then look for the basic email form via google. For example, cb.com would have me googling "@cb.com" (with quotation marks). Using CB as the same example, googling "CB corporate contacts" is useful. Get to know sites like Consumerist and My3cents.

 

Heck, some sites have actual emails listed (T-mobile comes to mind). For utilities, getting in through a media rep (PR staffers) is a great tactic. The PR people are almost always listed by email, and they have a vested interest in preserving the company's image. IME, they are very prompt about at least getting you to a person who will listen.

 

Now, the kicker is that for some organizations, the search will yield thousands of results. For instance, do this with Amex, you'll get mostly PR reps (which as I previously stated can be very viable leads). The hard part is sifting through all the information. Don't take shortcuts; you've come this far. If you look hard enough, you'll hit paydirt. You'll find a manager with title and email that is related to your quest.

 

Some companies, notably Citibank, have so many email formats (citi.com, citigroup.com, etc.) I literally would cycle through all forms till I found the one that worked, based on mail Delivery failures.

 

Bottom line is that if you look hard enough, you'll get somebody.

Now, how do you get this started? As I stated, I am a fan of email. Letters get lost (I don't usually advise sending goodwill communications CMRRR). Also, many executives routinely have subordinates read and reply to correspondences without ever reading them. Phone calls are too easily intercepted by secretaries and/or executive assistants. IMHO, an email is the perfect compromise. Somewhat non-threatening, and read receipts help the sender know they have a valid address. You have time to compose an email; they have the time to research and send back a helpful reply (yes, emails do get intercepted too).

 

The biggest challenge is getting your need(s) across. I learned to send out an exploratory email first, something along the lines of: Hello, I need some help, and I have not been able to get this situation fixed. I'd appreciate if you can help get this fixed, or assist me in forwarding it to somebody who can. I know you must be busy, and I hate coming this far up the chain, but I really need someone who can correct this error. Thanks...

 

All about psychology. I have tried to empower this executive. Hopefully, they'll rue the idea of passing this off unless absolutely necessary. Hopefully, I have projected myself as a customer that has an opportunity to be satisfied.

 

So, after he/she replies that they'd be happy to help, I then give an honest depiction of the events. Avoid embellishing. Do emphasize any mistakes made by the OC (and there almost always is at least one): never received a final bill, request to cancel contract not honored, etc. I also own up to any telling error on my part, like not providing a forwarding address. I always used to add the desire to make this right, not simply go away; I also add that I would love the possibility of reopening a business relationship with them in the near future.

 

Have dates, account numbers and any other info handy. Be prepared to back up this info. Be prepared to be pawned off to somebody else (a good thing). You might get somebody who helps you immediately. Well, that is why I say you need to be prepared to pay immediately. He/she might accept a payment plan, but I wouldn't chance it.

 

If you don't get a positive answer, you have a few options: you can politely ask to speak to a supervisor (see why you shouldn't start at the top?) or you can start the process from the beginning. The key is to not get discouraged.

 

If you stick with it, most likely, you'll get what you want. Now, you can ask for the debt to be recalled (make sure to be clear that you are ready to pay). Usually, I let them figure it out. Be polite but firm. Many people do not know the rules. Most CA assigned AND sold debt can be recalled. Just flow into it: so, will the collection agency notify me when this has been deleted? Ease them into the agreement; there should be no problem with a letter or email confirming the deletion.

 

Take my first successful goodwill/PFD. It was with the terror CMI who were hurting me badly with a recent derogatory notation. For weeks, I read CB to figure out an action plan. I knew that CMI was a pain, and that they probably would validate, but DV'ed them anyway. Simultaneously, I started calling execs to figure out a way to get the situation fixed. To summarize, I went through nine (9) execs across three (3) states. Eight of them said no... it cannot be done... you must deal with the CA.... it is illegal... I finally found an exec, lower than the ones I started with, got the deletion, paid off part of the collection (fees removed) and today I still benefit from special pricing with that same cable company. I learned perseverance too; from beginning to deletion it took almost ten months!

 

And I didn't even have to mention "PFD". They did.

 

Another collection popped up while I was dealing with CMI. Much easier. It took only three emails. I ended up calling the collections manager. She told me that they would have to buy the debt back for three times the amount they sold it. Hogwash.

 

I went to the website, found an exec, and had the thing done within half an hour of my first call. It was deleted within 24 hours. NCO later wrote me a letter of apology for the inconvenience.

 

Keep this in mind: You may be told "no" the first, second or third time. Still, If it isn't illegal, it can probably be done. Your job is to find the person who can get it done.

 

With Verizon, a PR rep was my "in." With my Student Loan (yes, I said student loan) the chief executive of the guaranty agency was my link. End result: A current special status with Verizon (they waived the collection amount and deleted the account); and my student loan was completely laundered. I did not tell one lie, either.

 

It really works, with the right approach, and it actually pays to be honest. It can be used for other purposes. Early this month, I was able to increase my available credit from under $60K to six figures (no hard pull). It's all about leveraging relationships.

 

Finally, a quick take on PFDs. I like to approach them with the same methods outlined above. If with a CA, 1-2 punch it. At the very least, DV. I say it again: GENERALLY, AVOID STARTING WITH PFDs.

 

I don't care how "sure" you are. This is not attacking your desire to pay; make sure you know you are dealing with the right agency. These people dumpster-dive, sell/resell debt, and lose contracts all the time. You think if you send the wrong one money they'll apologize and send it back?

 

If you get a CA to agree to a PFD, watch your back, and be careful. Get the agreement in writing, on letterhead. I have never done a PFD with a CA (batting .1000 with OC/CA recall). I would approach this informally as well; instead of sending a cookie-cutter letter to the main office, I would try to find a specific contact, and simply hint at the fact that I do not agree with the trade line, and that I would be willing to pay. What works for both parties? I know what works for me...

 

People wonder why the general PFDs arrangement tend not to work. Again, put yourself in their shoes (don't gag). Clearly, CA folks generally have no idea of the law. Now, pretend you work for a CA. If you were in your office, and you received a letter stating that you should do this and do that, containing legal-sounding terms demanding a deletion for money, what would you do? Chances are, you would toss the letter, and stick to the tried and true methods of harassing and scaring people to pay. I truly believe that CAs don't ignore PFDs out of spite. They simply don't understand them for the most part, so they avoid them, because PFDs take them far out of their comfort zone.

 

Think outside the box.

 

To summarize, some points. YMMV. Nothing is etched in stone. Tailor to suit your needs.

 

***Goodwill arrangements are best done with OCs. If working with a CA, exhaust every other avenue. DV the CA.

 

***Informal works best. Legalese scares people.

 

***Be prepared to pay.

 

***Honesty is the best policy

 

***Perseverance is rewarded

 

***You don't have to start with the CEO/President/Chairman, but don't be scared to.

 

POST #28 CONTAINS INTERESTING GOODWILL SAMPLES FROM MEMBERS !!!

Edited March 15, 2009 by Stryker

[Kindred]

+1

 

PFD, despite how 'easy' it sounds... there's nothing easy about it. I've learned the hard way that it's not easy as a few posts here might have said otherwise. If you are somehow able to get a fully signed agreement in writing, then PFD might be a good way to go. There's no way I'd ever send a remittance and a PFD letter in the same envelope unless I have something official from the opposing party.

 

PFDs are rare and is always YMMV.

[Stryker]

+1

 

PFD, despite how 'easy' it sounds... there's nothing easy about it. I've learned the hard way that it's not easy as a few posts here might have said otherwise. If you are somehow able to get a fully signed agreement in writing, then PFD might be a good way to go. There's no way I'd ever send a remittance and a PFD letter in the same envelope unless I have something official from the opposing party.

 

PFDs are rare and is always YMMV.

 

[FIRE MEDIC]

That's one helluva write up you did there!

Maybe you can give me some advice on sending a GW to my mortgage company. My FHA loan is current at this time and was opened in Oct of 2002. I did have 2 lates back in Jan and May of 2006 and have been current since. The mortgage company is local and was going to see if a GW would work. Since they are local, I was wondering if going there and speaking to a 'higher-up' would be better in my case. I certainly wouldn't want to annoy the person by just showing up at his/her office. Would you say making an appointment or sending an Email would suffice in my case? I was indeed late, however at the time was really going through finacial problems and it probably helps that both lates were just a few months apart, right?

[powers64]

WOW! Great explanation Stryker. Thank you for taking the time to do all of that!!!

 

[Stryker]

That's one helluva write up you did there!

Maybe you can give me some advice on sending a GW to my mortgage company. My FHA loan is current at this time and was opened in Oct of 2002. I did have 2 lates back in Jan and May of 2006 and have been current since. The mortgage company is local and was going to see if a GW would work. Since they are local, I was wondering if going there and speaking to a 'higher-up' would be better in my case. I certainly wouldn't want to annoy the person by just showing up at his/her office. Would you say making an appointment or sending an Email would suffice in my case? I was indeed late, however at the time was really going through finacial problems and it probably helps that both lates were just a few months apart, right?

 

Well, that defines thinking outside the box!

 

The good history since definitely helps.

 

How do you feel about email? Depending on that, I would send an exploratory email to your contact, asking to discuss an issue either in person or via email, his/her choice.

 

If there are any extenuating circumstance, mention it but don't dwell. No sob stories. Make sure you point out that you know an adjustment can be done if they say otherwise.

 

The toughest thing is maintaining a balance between firm confidence and obnoxious pushiness.

 

Best wishes!

[Stryker]

WOW! Great explanation Stryker. Thank you for taking the time to do all of that!!!

 

 

Thanks... I appreciate it. Just regurgitating the stuff I picked up here!

[powers64]

Quick question on your pfd stance:

 

Finally, a quick take on PFDs. I like to approach them with the same methods outlined above. If with a CA, 1-2 punch it. At the very least, DV. I say it again: GENERALLY, AVOID STARTING WITH PFDs.

 

I realize that you recommend letting OCs offer to delete as opposed to asking for pfd, but does your 'avoid pfds' stance apply to dealing with OCs too? ie - exhaust all other means to dispute an OC and how they are reporting before going the pay/gw/pfd route?

[Stryker]

Quick question on your pfd stance:

 

Finally, a quick take on PFDs. I like to approach them with the same methods outlined above. If with a CA, 1-2 punch it. At the very least, DV. I say it again: GENERALLY, AVOID STARTING WITH PFDs.

 

I realize that you recommend letting OCs offer to delete as opposed to asking for pfd, but does your 'avoid pfds' stance apply to dealing with OCs too? ie - exhaust all other means to dispute an OC and how they are reporting before going the pay/gw/pfd route?

 

I probably should fix that. I meant to convey a warning. So many newbies it seems jump to attempt PFDs with CA as the first option. IMHO, this should be avoided.

 

When I say avoid asking for a PFD, all I am really doing boils down to semantics. If possible, let the OC executive come up with the solution.

 

I believe your average executive would treat a direct PFD offer the same way a CA would view a PFD offer: with suspicion. Once they get spooked, they will simply leave as is, which is the easy thing to do. Remember, this may be someone who truly believes it is illegal to delete; if in doubt, they'll just leave it with the CA, and be done with it.

 

That is why I suggest "leading" them to where we want to go.

 

A better way to phrase it would have been for me to simply say not to use the term "PFD" at all.

[powers64]

Since they are local, I was wondering if going there and speaking to a 'higher-up' would be better in my case. I certainly wouldn't want to annoy the person by just showing up at his/her office.

 

I have used a tactic to deliver resumes that might be helpful: The goal is to make personal contact, bypass the mail room/regular mail delivery, but not to interrupt the busy person. By not having a stamp, not being delivered in a giant pile with more important items, it will generally get read.

 

For your situation, I would call the company and find out if the person you need to contact has an assistant. This works very well if you need to contact the CEO (their assistants usually rule the roost ). Talk to the assistant, say that you are having some difficulty with your account and wanted to drop off a letter for the exec. Find out if the assistant will be around at a time when you could stop by. (note: you aren't asking to deliver to the exec in person..only to the assistant, note #2i: if i am applying for a job, I don't contact the assistant, in that case, I am trying to drop of my resume in person and do a "live handoff" to get a quick 'first impression moment with the exec' " It works really well. )

 

The assistant can also tell you if email is more effective.

 

Another thing I do when selling/cold calling (because i hate it). I will call during a time when I assume I will get voice mail and leave a very brief message: "Oh so sorry i missed you. I"m having a problem with my account that I was hoping you could take a look at. I am sure you must be very busy, so I will send you an email with the information. If you could take a moment at your convenience to help me out i would greatly appreciate it." Then you can send a simple direct, but more detailed email. This way, they can deal with you in their own time, they will remember you and recognize the name in their email box and you aren't leaving a super rambling voice mail or having to explain your issue 'live' without knowing if you've caught them at a bad time.

Edited May 22, 2008 by powers64

[Stryker]

Another thing I do when selling/cold calling (because i hate it). I will call during a time when I assume I will get voice mail and leave a very brief message: "Oh so sorry i missed you. I"m having a problem with my account that I was hoping you could take a look at. I am sure you must be very busy, so I will send you an email with the information. If you could take a moment at your convenience to help me out i would greatly appreciate it." Then you can send a simple direct, but more detailed email. This way, they can deal with you in their own time, they will remember you and recognize the name in their email box and you aren't leaving a super rambling voice mail or having to explain your issue 'live' without knowing if you've caught them at a bad time.

 

I like this approach.

[MB34]

This should definitely be pinned!!

 

I was just about to begin writing a GW to Crap1 to let

me pay off my CO account in 4 installments and this gives

me lots of info.

Edited May 22, 2008 by MB34

[FIRE MEDIC]

This should definitely be pinned!!

 

I was just about to begin writing a GW to Crap1 to let

me pay off my CO account in 4 installments and this gives

me lots of info.

I second that!!! All of this info is valuable!

[clambert1273]

LOL stryker - unless you are me then there is an exception to EVERY rule

[Stryker]

LOL stryker - unless you are me then there is an exception to EVERY rule :)

 

LOL!

 

You are crazy -- and very wrong!

 

I need to go find a screen capture of my scores from less than two years ago...

[clambert1273]

LOL stryker - unless you are me then there is an exception to EVERY rule :D

 

LOL!

 

You are crazy -- and very wrong!

 

I need to go find a screen capture of my scores from less than two years ago...

 

no I mean the crazy things that seem to happen LOL but I guess it makes me appreciate my credit that much more cuz I have to fight for it that much more lol

[alicia671]

GREAT write-up!! It certainly CAN be hard work searching for email addresses. I've come down to actually guessing from a name and title and sending away.

[Stryker]

GREAT write-up!! It certainly CAN be hard work searching for email addresses. I've come down to actually guessing from a name and title and sending away.

 

 

BT, DT!

[Guest meggie]

You have the most perfect timing!

[Stryker]

You have the most perfect timing!

[Lovepalmtrees]

Thanks so much for this! I need to do a goodwill for Chase Manhattan Mortgage and I have gotten advice to send to the CEO and then just to the random address.

 

I think I have a very legit reason - mortge late for 2 mo in 2003 and that is when mom was very ill, had hospice and passed away (she was also a joint on acct). Anyway, I just need to find that darn acct number and I will send it off.

 

+1

[TheChosenOne]

Great informative post. Should definitely be pinned. Learned something new again thanks to strykaaa!

[Stryker]

Great informative post. Should definitely be pinned. Learned something new again thanks to strykaaa!

 

Thanks... as always, you are too kind...

[Stryker]

Thanks so much for this! I need to do a goodwill for Chase Manhattan Mortgage and I have gotten advice to send to the CEO and then just to the random address.

 

I think I have a very legit reason - mortge late for 2 mo in 2003 and that is when mom was very ill, had hospice and passed away (she was also a joint on acct). Anyway, I just need to find that darn acct number and I will send it off.

 

+1

 

 

I would definitely give it a shot. make sure your explanation isn't too "sobby."

[Carrie2008]

THANK YOU, Stryker! The CEO e-mail method just worked for me for a hold that was put on a check I just deposited in my bank (new account). I really needed the money now, not 10 days from now! I called and e-mailed the bank's customer service, but got absolutely nowhere. After e-mailing the CEO I heard back within just a few hours. I didn't talk to the CEO himself, but this guy obviously had the ability to make things happen!

 

Oh, by the way ~ THANK YOU!!!