medical collection, HEY LOOK a HERE!

[trinity]

I sent a validation letter to a collection agency that was showing up on my husband credit report, and this is what they sent back.

 

Dear Hubby,

 

I am writing in reference to the certified letter I received from you today dated September 19, 2004. As I have explained to you numerous times, your account was reported to Equifax as an unpaid collection account due to your failure to pay it. Once I receive your past due amount I will gladly update your credit file.

 

I am only at liberty to provide the information you need to pay the bill, which I have sent to you several times previously. Enclosed you will find another copy of the bill which provides the original creditors information.

 

This office is under contract with our client to collect their debt accounts; thus giving us the authority to collect and obtain the information necessary in compliance with HIPPA (Personal Health Information Privacy Agreement).

 

If you have any questions, please don not hesitate to contact me.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Judy C. Wood

Accounts Receivable, Inc.

 

They also sent me a printout from their computer with there letterhead, my husband name and previous address,(not address that we live to now), account number, dates of service, diagnosis, and the charge, payment, and balance. Is this considered validation, and if not what kind of letter do you think I need to send next.

This company is located in St. Simons Island, Georgia. I live in Georgia as well.

[old_trout]

have you offered to pay for deletion?

[TeeSharice]

I sent a validation letter to a collection agency that was showing up on my husband credit report, and this is what they sent back.

 

Dear Hubby,

 

I am writing in reference to the certified letter I received from you today dated September 19, 2004. As I have explained to you numerous times, your account was reported to Equifax as an unpaid collection account due to your failure to pay it. Once I receive your past due amount I will gladly update your credit file.

 

I am only at liberty to provide the information you need to pay the bill, which I have sent to you several times previously. Enclosed you will find another copy of the bill which provides the original creditors information.

 

This office is under contract with our client to collect their debt accounts; thus giving us the authority to collect and obtain the information necessary in compliance with HIPPA (Personal Health Information Privacy Agreement).

 

If you have any questions, please don not hesitate to contact me.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Judy C. Wood

Accounts Receivable, Inc.

 

They also sent me a printout from their computer with there letterhead, my husband name and previous address,(not address that we live to now), account number, dates of service, diagnosis, and the charge, payment, and balance. Is this considered validation, and if not what kind of letter do you think I need to send next.

This company is located in St. Simons Island, Georgia. I live in Georgia as well.

 

 

If this is a medical bill...you should follow Whychat's HIPAA procedure NOT the normal DV route...

[SassyinAz]

Disagreeing with Tee :shock: though it reads from the response like the OP already sent a Hipaa letter of some sort.

 

Send a validation letter to preserve all your options, IF and when they validate, try Hipaa if willing to pay and/or the information being reported is NOT inaccurate. Reads to me though as if their butts are covered and they've provided you with the information requested as well as having a partnership agreement in place.

 

However, the problem with WhyChat's Hipaa series is that it ultimately ends up in a complaint to enforce Hipaa violations -- OCR, who investigates the complaints has determined it is NOT a violation to communicate the information even after payment has been received.

 

Sooooo, the short answer is, there is NO Hipaa violation and if even there was a Hipaa violation it wouldn't address the reporting.

 

See this thread (current from today):

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...ht=hipaa+closed

 

Sassy

 

EDITED to clarify: I don't want a BUDFOMW trade-marked, he he he, please see the linked thread -- additional and solid confirmation, as of today (there are others as well but never quoted and never after having followed WhyChat's series exactly, so a bunch of ifs) that the OCR is indeed ruling that additional communication after payment is not a Hipaa violation.

[radi8]

They also sent me a printout from their computer with there letterhead, my husband name and previous address,(not address that we live to now), account number, dates of service, diagnosis, and the charge, payment, and balance. Is this considered validation,

 

No, information printed from their own computers is specifically NOT validation.

(Spears V. Brennan)

 

 

I'm not certain that OCR's response is directed at accounts that are paid in full:

Section 164.506(a) of the privacy rule permits entities such as ABC Hospital to disclose its patients' protected health information for the purpose of payment for services provided. OCR therefore is closing this complaint.

 

"for purposes of payment".

What about if there is no payment involved, as the bill is already paid in full?

Can the OC still share your PHI with a third party collector- even if there is nothing to collect?

The referenced letter doesn't answer that question, in my opinion.... Or am I missing something, ?

[SassyinAz]

Yeah, there's an additional ruling that Whit received from the OCR saying they consider it (the sharing after payment) as part of the payment purpose and not a violation.

 

More like, it is their duty (under the FDCPA) to update the information and the Hipaa regulations (enacted to not conflict) allow them to do so.

 

Looking for the thread now.

 

Sassy

[radi8]

Gotcha.

 

So- where does that leave HIPAA in terms of our use? Seems to be fairly useless if the OCR has stated that such uses are permissable.

[TeeSharice]

*admitting confusion at this point*...

Id think that makes HIPPA useless, if what the Sasser is saying is correct(not that Im doubting ya)....

 

 

Hmmmmmmm

 

 

 

Oh yeah

 

 

 

 

here ya go:

BUDFOMW™

although id NEVER Use that kinda language <clutching at my pearls>

 

 

TPABTTS™

[JoeDirtPharmD]

OK PM me with the decryption

[trinity]

I called this collection company a couple of months ago, and questioned them about this bill. They told me that they had sent it to my insurance company but the insurance company did not pay. I called Cigna to check using the date of service that they had given me and they told me they never received anything from them. Well when I explained that to the collection agency and I told them that the insurance company told me to tell them to resubmit it, but this collection agency refused too. They told me that I could submit the claim to my insurance company, but they was not going to. This bill was actually suppose to be paid by the insurance company. Also when I sent the validation letter, I did not use the HIPAA one. What can I do now?

[trinity]

I called this collection company a couple of months ago, and questioned them about this bill. They told me that they had sent it to my insurance company but the insurance company did not pay. I called Cigna to check using the date of service that they had given me and they told me they never received anything from them. Well when I explained that to the collection agency and I told them that the insurance company told me to tell them to resubmit it, but this collection agency refused too. They told me that I could submit the claim to my insurance company, but they was not going to. This bill was actually suppose to be paid by the insurance company. Also when I sent the validation letter, I did not use the HIPAA one. What can I do now? :oops:

[SassyinAz]

This was posted by Whitsend (a Hipaa compliance officer) after seeking clarification from the OCR:

 

Quote:

Federal Register/Vol. 65, No. 250/Thursday, December 28, 2000/Rules and Regulations Pg. 82495

 

Payment

We proposed the term payment to mean:....

 

In addition, we modify this definition to clarify that the activities described in section 1179 of the Act are included in the definition of "payment." We add new subclause (vi) allowing covered entities to disclose to consumer reporting agencies an individual's name, address, date of birth, social security number and payment history, account number, as well as the name and address of the individual's health care provider and/or health plan, as appropriate. Covered entities may make disclosure of this protected health information to consumer reporting agencies for purposes related to collection of premiums or reimbursement. This allows reporting not just of missed payments and overdue debt but also of subsequent positive payment experience (e.g., to expunge the debt). We consider such positive payment experience to be "related to" collection of premiums or reimbursement.

 

The above is from this thread, OC paid CA after Hipaa letter:

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...er=asc&start=15

 

And, this thread:

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...=sassy+whit+ocr

 

I've tried to post the same caution to everyone having difficulties with this since clarified, mostly screwed's problems are foremost in my brain and got me thinking this through:

 

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...der=asc&start=0

 

Since that thread, whit has received an interpretation from the OCR, that supports that payment purpose includes the history:

 

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...er=asc&start=15

 

File the Hipaa complaint but know that you may get the same ruling and either way it won't take care of the reporting.

 

http://www.creditboards.com/phpBB2/viewtop...t=sassy+screwed

 

blah, blah, blah -- problem is, in a nutshell, if you just send the Hipaa letter without having first requested validation, you've nothing to pursue, because after payment validation doesn't have to be provided.

 

If even it would have been a Hipaa violation, before the clarification and rulings, the OCR can't tell a CA to do anything (they are the one's reporting), they could fine the doctor (fines aren't yet being imposed though), and as long as what is reporting meets the reporting requirements, there is no violation of FCRA to pursue as a furnisher either.

 

Hipaa violations can't be pursued by a consumer -- so, if the OCR doesn't think it is a violation, we are SOL.

 

Sassy

[cotterpin]

I called this collection company a couple of months ago, and questioned them about this bill. They told me that they had sent it to my insurance company but the insurance company did not pay. I called Cigna to check using the date of service that they had given me and they told me they never received anything from them. Well when I explained that to the collection agency and I told them that the insurance company told me to tell them to resubmit it, but this collection agency refused too. They told me that I could submit the claim to my insurance company, but they was not going to. This bill was actually suppose to be paid by the insurance company. Also when I sent the validation letter, I did not use the HIPAA one. What can I do now?

 

They are under NO obligation to bill your insurer. Request a copy of the HCFA-1500 (prounounced HICFA) and send it to Cigna yourself.

[SassyinAz]

There's an awesome relatively new thread out front in the consumer protection forum (stickied) by Char, detailing the process of dealing with an insurance company and filing a complaint with your state's department of insurance.

 

Sassy

[trinity]

I sent letters to all the medical collections on my DH credit report to validate, but I have not even spoken with the original creditor. Is it still possible that I can send the HIPAA validation request to the original creditor. They are doctors for emergency rooms and hospital bills.

[SassyinAz]

I think you could go 3 ways or some combination:

 

1. Pursue with the CA that what they sent wasn't validation because the records didn't come from the OC through the CA to you (see Radi8's post) -- don't know how far you'll get with that though as they state they've the required business associate agreement in place.

 

2. Give the Hipaa series a try, however, you may well end up as screwed did in the link thread, they forward to the CA and the CA updates to a paid collection -- which doesn't help you a yot and no violations to pursue.

 

I don't think you are understanding the Hipaa series or process though, it is not a validation request as you keep saying.

 

The whole underlying theory is, you're allowed to communicate my information (OC to CA, same information needed to verify with the CRA's) with a payment purpose -- once paid, there is no payment purpose and therefore no communication that would allow you (CA, who is the one reporting) to receive the information needed to verify with the CRA's. That's the problem now, the underlying theory, with the OCR interpretation that payment purpose includes payment experience/history.

 

2 things in your letter received tell me the CA understands exactly what you are trying to do and have their butts covered -- they've the required business associate agreement under Hipaa and their statement that they are only allowed to communicate the information needed for you to pay, in other words, meet the validation request (minimum information necessary to comply).

 

3. Gather all your documentation and submit a complaint to your state's department of insurance.

 

You should read Char's thread out front as previously linked.

 

Sassy

[trinity]

I really feel that I have screwed myself because I sent letters to all the collection agencies to validate. This is the letter that I used:

 

Husband Name

Address

City, State, Zip

 

 

Collection Agency Name

Address

City, State, Zip

 

Date

 

RE: Amounts and account numbers

 

 

Your company is reporting the above referenced account on my credit report as a collection. I have disputed this item with the credit reporting agency and they reported you confirmed the account as valid.

 

In a good faith effort to resolve the matter amicably, I must demand proof of this debt, specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature, as well as proof of your authority in this alleged matter. Absent such proof, you must correct any erroneous reports on this past debt as mine.

 

I must ask you to provide the following information:

 

1. Please evidence your authorization under the 15 USC 1692(e) and 15 USC 1692(f) in this alleged matter.

 

2. What is your authorization of law for your collection of information?

 

3. What is your authorization of law of your collection of this alleged debt?

 

4. Please evidence your authorization to do business or operate in this state.

 

5. Please evidence proof of the alleged debt, including specifically the alleged contract or other instrument bearing my signature.

 

6. Please provide a complete account history, including any charges added for collection activity.

 

You have thirty (30) days from receipt of this Notice to respond. Your failure to respond, on point, in writing, handsigned, and in a timely manner, will work as a waiver to any and all of your claims in this matter, and will entitle me to presume that you placed this on my credit report(s) in error and that this matter is permanently closed. Provide the proof, or correct the record and remove this invalid debt from all sources to which you have reported it.

 

For the purposed of 15 USC 1692 et seq., this Notice3 has the same effect as a dispute to the validity of the alleged debt and a dispute to the validity of your claims. This Notice is an attempt to correct your records, and any information received from you will be collected as evidence should further action be necessary. This is a request for information only, and is not a statement, election, or waiver of status.

 

I sent this to all the medical collection on my husband credit report. These bills still have balances on them. I sent this to one collection agency called CMRE financial services, and they sent me a list of about 11 accounts that they had, and deleted them from their collection agency. They also stated that they will be contacting the CRA to have them deleted as well. This letter definitely worked when I sent it to them. Do you think I should just pay it with the original creditor, and them use the HIPAA and get it off my credit report then. :cry:

[SassyinAz]

Trinity,

 

You didn't screw up, you're just not understanding the validation nor the hipaa series -- that letter is perfect, well I prefer short but sweet, but it will work either way.

 

Wait it out, re-dispute with the CRA's, and follow-up.

 

Sassy