Statute of limitations for hospital bills in Florida

[madscientist]

Hey guys, I am trying to find the Florida statutes that specifically state and describe that the statute of limitations for Florida debt (4 oral/5 written) does not apply to hospital bills. I have been to several law libraries and spent countless hours there, talked to librarians, etc, and I have not been able to find anything indicating that the SOL does not apply to hospitals. I have consulted two consumer attorneys who practice law in FL who seem to be under the impression that a hospital bill falls under the category of the 5-year written contract for purposes of the statute of limitations. They are not familiar with any Florida laws who specifically state that hospitals bills are exempt and must be treated under a different category.

 

 

Clearly, this information must be written and defined somewhere. I am aware of judges ruling in favor of hospitals based on the "no SOL" concept. However, how can this hold up in court again and again if it is not explicitly defined anywhere? I would appreciate it if someone can provide more information about this including caselaw, if possible. Thanks.

[madscientist]

Anybody?

[llcc]

First of all I want to say that I am not an attorney. I am a former law student. However, I do associate with attorneys and experts in matters of law. I would also like to add that I don't think there is any excuse for not paying a medical/hospital bills where services were rendered in good faith (most of the time). If you have a medical debt that is authentic, you should make arrangements to settle it.

 

Now, having that stated, here is the answer to your question. There is no Florida legislature that I am aware of that states hospital bills are exempt from the Florida statute of limitations. The Florida statute of limitations for hospital bills is 5 years since they are mostly considered a written instrument. Even if you did not sign any paperwork, they are usually considered a written instrument because it shows an agreement was made at the time you received the medical services. The medical paperwork needs to show how the amount was calculated. An itemized statement has to exist that shows how that figure came to be. The SOL for this is 5 years and 5 years only. This means that a litigation route of recovery cannot be pursed for this debt beyond the 5 year period. The SOL defense can be raised at this point. As I said previously, I know of no Florida legislature that describes how hospital debt is exempt from this. I will have to research it in detail among my attorney friends in order to clear any doubts. I have had this conversation in the past with my attorney friends and they all agree the 5-year SOL always apply and can always be used as a defense.

 

As for caselaw? See the following case Mercy Hospital, Inc. v Carr, 297 So.2d 598 (Fla. App. 3 Dist. 1974) which clearly states the following

 

 

“Where there is an affirmative obligation expressed in writing to do the act for the nonperformance of which an action is brought and the writing is signed by the party to be charged and there is consideration for the promise, there is a contractual obligation in writing subject to five-year statute of limitations.â€

 

There are many, many more caselaw like this. As I said earlier, I have to research this further in order to give a definite answer but in Florida there is no legislation I am aware of that allows hospitals to prevail past the SOL. Florida courts have repeatedly upheld the 5 year SOL. Which leads me to conclude that the SOL defense is valid.

[Why Chat]

With all due respect to "llcc", much of the actual effect of "SOL" laws as it applies to hospital debt would only be found in case law having to do with that subject.

 

Technically speaking, the "SOL" on medical accounts of any kind, either doctors, dentists or hospitals is 4 years under the UCC, as unless there is a valid written contract that fulfills the requirement of the statute of frauds the "contract" devolves to an unwritten contract.

 

However, the Courts have ruled that SOME medical debts from SOME hospitals are exempt from the ordinary "SOL" statutes and must be treated the same as a "Governmental" debt, because the Municipality, State or Federal Government reimburse those institutions for "no-pays" out of tax $$. The cases I have seen in the past involve mostly people who have had the means to pay, but have left the Country for a period of time ( 5-6 years) and then returned.

 

Remember, even IF you are beyond the 4 or 5 year "normal" SOL and have not yet been sued by the hospital, ( double check the Court as you may HAVE been sued and have a default judgment) the possibility still exists IF the hospital was reimbursed by tax $$ that you will lose in Court if your ONLY defense is a "SOL" defense.

[sonicanatidae]

because the Municipality, State or Federal Government reimburse those institutions for "no-pays" out of tax $$.

 

 

I can confirm this happens in hospitals from the inside.

 

WhyChat Speaketh Sooth....

[llcc]

WhyChat, I am not disagreeing with you. Please take a look at my post from 2 years ago where I said exactly what you are saying here. Where I am disagreeing is on the separate legislation that specifically states hospitals are excluded from the statute of limitations. Like I said, I have to find more information about that.

 

My post from two years ago (last post in the thread)

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry3273937

[Why Chat]

WhyChat, I am not disagreeing with you. Please take a look at my post from 2 years ago where I said exactly what you are saying here. Where I am disagreeing is on the separate legislation that specifically states hospitals are excluded from the statute of limitations. Like I said, I have to find more information about that.

 

My post from two years ago (last post in the thread)

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry3273937

You would find it in each State's legislation that excludes "Government entities" from many statutes, it is the same as the exclusions in the FDCPA, FCRA and FACTA that allow reporting and continued collection activities on taxes and student loans, library fines and parking tickets.

[madscientist]

Thank you, guys, for the information you have provided. To put things into perspective so that I understand correctly...

 

If you receive medical care at a county hospital and you were not ensured at the time. If the hospital sues you 7 year later, they still can collect the amount? This leads me to another question. How long do hospitals keep your accounts active in their systems and can still sue you? I am trying to gather information for a friend. Thank you.

[sonicanatidae]

How long do hospitals keep your accounts active in their systems and can still sue you?

 

I manage the data at a hospital. We keep your records forever. Its only HDD space,

so it doesnt cost us anything to maintain your bill. Your chart may be destroyed after

7 or 10 years, I dont remember specifically, but your bill lives in the system forever.

 

As a matter of fact, we divested a sister hospital 5+ years ago and another company

is STILL working their past due A/R.

[madscientist]

Thank you. So I guess it is all a matter of whether the hospital wants to pursue it or not. Is there a possibility that there will be no lawsuit?

[Why Chat]

Thank you, guys, for the information you have provided. To put things into perspective so that I understand correctly...

 

If you receive medical care at a county hospital and you were not ensured at the time. If the hospital sues you 7 year later, they still can collect the amount? This leads me to another question. How long do hospitals keep your accounts active in their systems and can still sue you? I am trying to gather information for a friend. Thank you.

Did your friend apply for assistance?? Was it offered to him/her??

He/she may not actually owe anything if they were both uninsured and unable to pay at the time of service.

 

The "SOL" referred to as being invalid for hospitals really only refers to those who WERE able to pay and did NOT. Otherwise there would be no "cause of action".

 

When a hospital decides to take collection activities on old accounts they frequently "bundle" them and assign them to a CA, if the CA checks a credit report and believes that there are assailable assets, they MAY after making some collection efforts return the account to the hospital for litigation.

[madscientist]

Thank you, WhyChat. My friend does not remember whether he applied for assistance or not at the time. He remembers meeting with a social worker about it, though. At the time he did not make much money and could not afford the bill. The collection account appears in his credit report (entered in 2003) by a CA. No changes or updates have been made to his credit report for this particular account since 2005. It displays "last update: 2005" for the accounts. My friend has terrible credit and several charged-off accounts that resulted from severe financial hardships.

 

In the present time, however, his life has turned around significantly and he is making more money now. Still not enough to cover all his charged off debts. That's basically why the question surfaces. Could he still be sued for this debt even? He has not received any letters or calls from the CA on this since 2004. Oh, one more thing. There is an entry in his report saying these items are due to be removed later this year.

 

I would appreciate any information and insights you can provide on this based on your past experience and what you have seen.

Edited February 9, 2010 by madscientist

[madscientist]

Thank you, guys. I have passed the information here along to my friend. Can you help me with the above questions so that I can pass the answers along?

[sonicanatidae]

Oh, one more thing. There is an entry in his report saying these items are due to be removed later this year.

 

I would appreciate any information and insights you can provide on this based on your past experience and what you have seen.

 

Personally, I say let sleeping dogs lie. If its dropping on its own within the next

10 months, then really, you're done, if you're sole goal is removal.

 

Fiddling with that account by disputing, etc, COULD cause it to be re-aged,

changed, +120 lates added or anything. If you ignore it, it will apparently

fall off shortly and be a non-issue.

 

Note: Re-aging, etc are violations, but would you rather argue that or

just simply be done with the entry?..

 

 

Focus on the things that arent falling off this year and by the end of the year

the credit report will reflect the work + the freebies. Mess with the freebies

and you never know. You can always start the WhyChat process later, if it

doesnt drop within 30 days of the stated drop date.

 

WhyChat and BonBon are the experts here. I'm simply trying to help

by sharing my experiences, not expertise.

 

I have had mixed results disputing things due to fall off soon. In some

cases they dropped early, in others, I gained 9 +120 lates..

These instances were non-medicals tho. All of my medicals were

going to be there awhile, so I've attacked them and beaten 4 of 6

with a 5th likely moving to victory shortly. Starting complaints on

the 6th entry next week.. EXP's timer is up...muhahahaha

 

Good luck!

[llcc]

Mad,

 

Excellent advice from sonicanatidae.

 

I have requested help from one of my friends who is an attorney and specializes in medical debt. I will give you details as soon as I get them.

[Why Chat]

Thank you, WhyChat. My friend does not remember whether he applied for assistance or not at the time. He remembers meeting with a social worker about it, though. At the time he did not make much money and could not afford the bill. The collection account appears in his credit report (entered in 2003) by a CA. No changes or updates have been made to his credit report for this particular account since 2005. It displays "last update: 2005" for the accounts. My friend has terrible credit and several charged-off accounts that resulted from severe financial hardships.

 

In the present time, however, his life has turned around significantly and he is making more money now. Still not enough to cover all his charged off debts. That's basically why the question surfaces. Could he still be sued for this debt even? He has not received any letters or calls from the CA on this since 2004. Oh, one more thing. There is an entry in his report saying these items are due to be removed later this year.

 

I would appreciate any information and insights you can provide on this based on your past experience and what you have seen.

I do not agree with the suggestion to allow accounts of ANY KIND to "fall off".

 

Unless there is a record of dispute and a letter of deletion it is too easy for the garbage CA's to re-age and re-insert old accounts just when you need clean credit the most.

 

I suggest your friend opt out

http://whychat.5u.com/OPTOUTINST.HTML

Get old addresses deleted

 

Send the medical dispute letter ( if most of his bad accounts are medical)

http://whychat.5u.com/hipaadisp.html

Or the "SOL" letter initial dispute if most of his accounts are non medical and they are past the legal SOL for his current State of residence.

http://whychat.5u.com/initdispltrsol.html

Once one set of disputes is complete and the accounts are deleted, he can send the other.

 

I have little doubt that he will be able to completely clean his reports this way and they will STAY clean if he keeps his deletion letters and dispute documentation for at least 4 years.

[sonicanatidae]

Thank you, WhyChat. My friend does not remember whether he applied for assistance or not at the time. He remembers meeting with a social worker about it, though. At the time he did not make much money and could not afford the bill. The collection account appears in his credit report (entered in 2003) by a CA. No changes or updates have been made to his credit report for this particular account since 2005. It displays "last update: 2005" for the accounts. My friend has terrible credit and several charged-off accounts that resulted from severe financial hardships.

 

In the present time, however, his life has turned around significantly and he is making more money now. Still not enough to cover all his charged off debts. That's basically why the question surfaces. Could he still be sued for this debt even? He has not received any letters or calls from the CA on this since 2004. Oh, one more thing. There is an entry in his report saying these items are due to be removed later this year.

 

I would appreciate any information and insights you can provide on this based on your past experience and what you have seen.

I do not agree with the suggestion to allow accounts of ANY KIND to "fall off".

 

Unless there is a record of dispute and a letter of deletion it is too easy for the garbage CA's to re-age and re-insert old accounts just when you need clean credit the most.

 

I suggest your friend opt out

http://whychat.5u.com/OPTOUTINST.HTML

Get old addresses deleted

 

Send the medical dispute letter ( if most of his bad accounts are medical)

http://whychat.5u.com/hipaadisp.html

Or the "SOL" letter initial dispute if most of his accounts are non medical and they are past the legal SOL for his current State of residence.

http://whychat.5u.com/initdispltrsol.html

Once one set of disputes is complete and the accounts are deleted, he can send the other.

 

I have little doubt that he will be able to completely clean his reports this way and they will STAY clean if he keeps his deletion letters and dispute documentation for at least 4 years.

 

 

Very good point WhyChat.

 

My advice stemmed from 2 entries on my own report from Midland. They will be conclusively

7 years old and will drop. In my case, simply sending in the pre and the post reports would

show it re-aged and immediate removal should it appear later.

 

But, in non-medicals, we dont have a specific method, aimed directly at leveraging

a deletion based on HIPAA, so I stand corrected as usual when WhyChat posts...

 

OP: In the end, its your choice, but I will say WHYCHAT is much more the expert in

this than I am. If you choose to follow my suggestion, its easier, ie. do nothing,

but *could* come back later. If you'd prefer to have this thing done, never to be seen

again, I would definitely suggest following WhyChat's Advice.

[madscientist]

Thank you, WhyChat. I will pass this information to my friend. Quick question, though. Doing all of this would it not be like saying to the hospital or CA "Hey, hey, I am here, I am here!"? Would that not be a cause for a lawsuit?

[Why Chat]

Thank you, WhyChat. I will pass this information to my friend. Quick question, though. Doing all of this would it not be like saying to the hospital or CA "Hey, hey, I am here, I am here!"? Would that not be a cause for a lawsuit?

The CA can not file a lawsuit on a medical debt, only the hospital could, and they have long since written this off and removed it from their active collection accounts.

 

NOW, it IS possible that IF your friend HAD been able to pay, and IF he had not met with a social worker to get assistance, ( and presumably qualified for assistance) and IF he had been out of the State or Country for several years, and IF this were a sizeable amount (over $5,000) then the CA COULD return the account to the hospital for action.

[madscientist]

WhyChat, thank you for your response. Ok, I am looking at my friend's credit report. All his accounts are charged off and in collections. All of his accounts (credit cards) are passed the 5 year SOL for the state of Florida. The medical account in question for this thread is actually composed of 3 separate accounts with the same local hospital totaling $10,000. He has never gone out of the country and has always lived at the same address. The last update from the local collection agency to the credit report shows a date in 2005. Last contact with the collection agency was in 2004. No letters or telephone calls since then. The marks are scheduled to fall off his credit report later this year. What would be the appropriate course of action for him in this particular scenario that either eliminates or minimizes the risk of getting sued for this? With my limited experience in hospital debts, I am inclined to advise him to simply "let sleeping dogs lie" and wait for these items to fall off, hopefully uneventfully. I'm afraid that if he starts a cleanup or dispute process, that would just make the CA point their radar directly to him. Am I correct in this assessment of the situation?

[madscientist]

Any final and conclusive advice? Thanks.

[Why Chat]

Any final and conclusive advice? Thanks.

My advice remains the same.

I do not agree with the suggestion to allow accounts of ANY KIND to "fall off".

 

Unless there is a record of dispute and a letter of deletion it is too easy for the garbage CA's to re-age and re-insert old accounts just when you need clean credit the most.

 

I suggest your friend opt out

http://whychat.5u.com/OPTOUTINST.HTML

Get old addresses deleted

 

Send the medical dispute letter ( if most of his bad accounts are medical)

http://whychat.5u.com/hipaadisp.html

Or the "SOL" letter initial dispute if most of his accounts are non medical and they are past the legal SOL for his current State of residence.

http://whychat.5u.com/initdispltrsol.html

Once one set of disputes is complete and the accounts are deleted, he can send the other.

 

I have little doubt that he will be able to completely clean his reports this way and they will STAY clean if he keeps his deletion letters and dispute documentation for at least 4 years.