Border's inconsistencies

[sanhima]

Saturday hubby and went to Borders to browse. There was no intention to get anything, but we like to browse. We've cut back on our book buying by a large margin.

 

I decided to hang in the cafe while hubby looked and wanted a drink. So grab a $1.95 bottle of rootbeer and go to counter to pay.

 

I'm asked for my ID, despite giving the clerk my Borders Rewards card that tells her who I am and matches my debit card.

 

I refused, the barista didn't make too much of a fuss after I said it was a violation of Visa merchant terms. And yes I did use the argument that my ID a permit for driving, not a permit to use my own hard earned funds. The other barista at the cafe thought that was amusing.

 

A little while later I did find a book and was NOT asked for my ID when checking out, using the same debit Visa card. I asked for a manager and questioned him as to why the inconsistencies. Why was it I was asked for ID for a $1.95 drink, not asked for my purchase, nor was my husband asked when he made his over $60 purchase. There was no answer, other than the manager shrugging his shoulders and mumbling something about corporate. I've confirmed with corporate that it is up to the managers to decide the policy regarding IDs and yes, they are aware of the Visa merchant agreement.

[GEORGE]

NO MINIMUM CHARGE ON A CREDIT CARD

 

NO MAXIMUM CHARGE ON A CREDIT CARD

 

NO FEE TO USE A CREDIT CARD

 

**NO ID ON A SIGNED CREDIT CARD**

 

But the rules don't automatically follow to DEBIT CARDS

 

Since you said you used a DANGEROUS DEBIT CARD

 

I thought BORDERS was out of business (maybe only selected locations)

[Continental]

This Border’s must be reported immediately - 1-800-VISA-911. What is their address?

 

CREDIT CARD SIGNATURE IS ALL THE ID NEEDED

 

When you pay for merchandise with a Visa card, MasterCard, or American Express any store that accepts these cards should accept yours too, no questions asked. It's part of the deal that merchants agree to when they become participating members.

 

They must check your signature and the card - electronically or by telephone - to be sure it's valid. Once the answer comes up yes, they can go ahead and charge. They can't ask you for any further identification - not a license plate number, Social Security number, proof of address, phone number or photo ID.

 

Your personal ID isn't needed because Visa, MasterCard, and American Express all guarantee payment on cards that have been properly checked. If the issuer mistakenly authorizes a sale on a bad card, it should make good. MasterCard says that merchants receive instant settlement. The contract MasterCard merchants sign specifically prevents them from asking for personal ID.

 

Unfortunately, not all merchants play by the rules. Some, apparently, haven't read them.

 

WHAT YOU CAN DO

 

MasterCard wants to hear about merchants who break their rules. Send the name and address and an account of what happened to MasterCard WorldWide 2000 Purchase St. Purchase, NY 10577 or call 1-800-300-3069. The merchant's bank will get a stiff letter, ordering it to investigate and bring the offending store into line - or pay a $2,000 fine. You may also report violations online:

 

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html

 

Visa enforces the same rules as MasterCard. "When we hear about a violation, we ask the bank that signed the merchant to get together with the merchant and see that the practice is stopped," Visa representative states. To report a merchant, send a letter to the bank that that issued your Visa card or call 1-800-VISA-911.

 

American Express also prohibits merchants from asking for IDs. "All a merchant is supposed to do is take an imprint, make sure the signature matches and swipe the card through the terminal, to get authorization."

Edited May 18, 2009 by Continental

[GEORGE]

And yes I did use the argument that my ID a permit for driving, not a permit to use my own hard earned funds. The other barista at the cafe thought that was amusing.

===========================

GOOD FOR YOU

[sanhima]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

[GEORGE]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

[sanhima]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

[GEORGE]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

 

THEN USE YOUR DEBIT...it is a little better than CASH

Edited May 19, 2009 by GEORGE

[thelowpriceleader]

"I've confirmed with corporate that it is up to the managers to decide the policy regarding IDs and yes, they are aware of the Visa merchant agreement."

 

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

[thelowpriceleader]

To clear another point up here, Borders does not accept PIN-based debit. Borders accepts credit cards only; therefore the debit cards are accepted only with a Visa or MasterCard logo and processed as credit requiring a signature (unless the purchase is under $25, then no signature is needed) and not pin based.

[GEORGE]

"I've confirmed with corporate that it is up to the managers to decide the policy regarding IDs and yes, they are aware of the Visa merchant agreement."

 

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

The POST OFFICE has a sign that says something like--->YOU MUST HAVE A SIGNATURE ON THE BACK OF YOUR CREDIT CARD...IT IS PART OF YOUR CREDIT CARD POLICY...WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY UNSIGNED CREDIT CARDS

[sanhima]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

 

THEN USE YOUR DEBIT...it is a little better than CASH

 

 

Yet you proclaim that debit is dangerous. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't?

[sanhima]

"I've confirmed with corporate that it is up to the managers to decide the policy regarding IDs and yes, they are aware of the Visa merchant agreement."

 

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

 

 

Then someone is not on the up and up or they weren't that concerned at all that my ID was requested for a $1.95 drink, but not my book nor my husband's books. In the 10 years we've shopped at the various locations in our area (10 stores total, including Waldenbooks) we've never ever come across this. Ever. Before I filed for bankruptcy, we could spend upwards of $150 on books (hey, manga is expensive, especially if you don't get it for a couple of months). Not once were we ever carded.

[GEORGE]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

 

THEN USE YOUR DEBIT...it is a little better than CASH

 

 

Yet you proclaim that debit is dangerous. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't?

CREDIT CARDS YOU RISK $0.00 OF YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (if fraud happens)

 

DEBIT CARDS YOU RISK EVERY SINGLE $1.00 DOWN TO THE LAST $0.01 (and then some) YOU CAN GO $100's NEGATIVE

 

THOSE ARE THE FACTS...I CAN'T CHANGE THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A CREDIT CARD

 

Getting mad at me won't change anything

 

Edited May 20, 2009 by GEORGE

[sanhima]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

 

THEN USE YOUR DEBIT...it is a little better than CASH

 

 

Yet you proclaim that debit is dangerous. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't?

CREDIT CARDS YOU RISK $0.00 OF YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (if fraud happens)

 

DEBIT CARDS YOU RISK EVERY SINGLE $1.00 DOWN TO THE LAST $0.01 (and then some) YOU CAN GO $100's NEGATIVE

 

THOSE ARE THE FACTS...I CAN'T CHANGE THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A CREDIT CARD

 

Getting mad at me won't change anything

 

 

George, you're reading waaaay too much into my replies. Apparently you haven't had a good debate in a while. If I was angry, you'd know it.

 

And FYI, I'm not the one who used an angry face, you did.

 

P.S. Don't forget that CAPS is the same as yelling, so please don't yell at me.

 

Thanks

[GEORGE]

I don't have credit cards. Neither does my husband. I gave mine up when I filed for bankruptcy. He gave his up when he paid the last one off. Our debit cards ARE our credit cards.

 

I don't carry cash because I have had my purse stolen. I lost over $500 once because of it. So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

Point being...YOU RISK YOUR TOTAL CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (and then some) EVERY TIME YOU USE A DEBIT CARD

 

(subject to fraud)

 

My credit cards do not risk even $0.01 of my checking account balance if FRAUD happened

 

That's all well and good, but you did not answer my question:

 

So how else do you propose I pay for my merchandise?

 

If you don't have an answer, say so.

 

Again, I do not have credit cards. Lost them in my bankruptcy.

 

THEN USE YOUR DEBIT...it is a little better than CASH

 

 

Yet you proclaim that debit is dangerous. So I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't?

CREDIT CARDS YOU RISK $0.00 OF YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE (if fraud happens)

 

DEBIT CARDS YOU RISK EVERY SINGLE $1.00 DOWN TO THE LAST $0.01 (and then some) YOU CAN GO $100's NEGATIVE

 

THOSE ARE THE FACTS...I CAN'T CHANGE THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A CREDIT CARD

 

Getting mad at me won't change anything

 

 

George, you're reading waaaay too much into my replies. Apparently you haven't had a good debate in a while. If I was angry, you'd know it.

 

And FYI, I'm not the one who used an angry face, you did.

 

P.S. Don't forget that CAPS is the same as yelling, so please don't yell at me.

 

Thanks

ANOTHER CAPSLOCK PHOBIC I SEE

 

Had I invented the internet instead of algore caps would not be yelling at all

 

You would be required to use caps every day or you would be banned from using the internet

 

 

If caps were so bad...why would the POST OFFICE require them???

[sanhima]

Had I invented the internet instead of algore caps would not be yelling at all

 

You would be required to use caps every day or you would be banned from using the internet

 

 

If caps were so bad...why would the POST OFFICE require them???

 

I'm not caps phobic. I look at it as a matter of common courtesy. I get yelled at all day at work by customers who probably send their complaints in all caps. I'd prefer to not be "yelled" at in posts.

 

I'm not quite sure what the post office has to do with caps. Would you care to elaborate (and no, I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely interested).

[GEORGE]

Had I invented the internet instead of algore caps would not be yelling at all

 

You would be required to use caps every day or you would be banned from using the internet

 

 

If caps were so bad...why would the POST OFFICE require them???

 

I'm not caps phobic. I look at it as a matter of common courtesy. I get yelled at all day at work by customers who probably send their complaints in all caps. I'd prefer to not be "yelled" at in posts.

 

I'm not quite sure what the post office has to do with caps. Would you care to elaborate (and no, I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely interested).

GEORGE JOHNSON

1427 GEORGE ST

GEORGETOWN CO 80444

[sanhima]

Had I invented the internet instead of algore caps would not be yelling at all

 

You would be required to use caps every day or you would be banned from using the internet

 

 

If caps were so bad...why would the POST OFFICE require them???

 

I'm not caps phobic. I look at it as a matter of common courtesy. I get yelled at all day at work by customers who probably send their complaints in all caps. I'd prefer to not be "yelled" at in posts.

 

I'm not quite sure what the post office has to do with caps. Would you care to elaborate (and no, I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely interested).

GEORGE JOHNSON

1427 GEORGE ST

GEORGETOWN CO 80444

 

 

Okay, so if it's a requirement, why doesn't the Post Office refuse to deliver those letters that are improperly addressed and not in caps? Why am I not rung through the ringer when I send anything out Priority, Express or any package that is not in block letters?

[GEORGE]

Had I invented the internet instead of algore caps would not be yelling at all

 

You would be required to use caps every day or you would be banned from using the internet

 

 

If caps were so bad...why would the POST OFFICE require them???

 

I'm not caps phobic. I look at it as a matter of common courtesy. I get yelled at all day at work by customers who probably send their complaints in all caps. I'd prefer to not be "yelled" at in posts.

 

I'm not quite sure what the post office has to do with caps. Would you care to elaborate (and no, I am not being sarcastic; I am genuinely interested).

GEORGE JOHNSON

1427 GEORGE ST

GEORGETOWN CO 80444

 

 

Okay, so if it's a requirement, why doesn't the Post Office refuse to deliver those letters that are improperly addressed and not in caps? Why am I not rung through the ringer when I send anything out Priority, Express or any package that is not in block letters?

[Continental]

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

Then someone is not on the up and up or they weren't that concerned at all that my ID was requested for a $1.95 drink. In the 10 years we've shopped at the various locations in our area (10 stores total, including Waldenbooks) we've never ever come across this. Ever. Before I filed for bankruptcy, we could spend upwards of $150 on books (hey, manga is expensive, especially if you don't get it for a couple of months). Not once were we ever carded.

Crooked cashier may well be an identity thief who belongs in prison.

 

NO MINIMUMS

 

NO MAXIMUMS

 

NO SURCHARGES

 

NO ID

 

…And if any cashier ever attempts any of these stunts, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911.

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=265954

[GEORGE]

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

Then someone is not on the up and up or they weren't that concerned at all that my ID was requested for a $1.95 drink. In the 10 years we've shopped at the various locations in our area (10 stores total, including Waldenbooks) we've never ever come across this. Ever. Before I filed for bankruptcy, we could spend upwards of $150 on books (hey, manga is expensive, especially if you don't get it for a couple of months). Not once were we ever carded.

Crooked cashier may well be an identity thief who belongs in prison.

 

NO MINIMUMS

 

NO MAXIMUMS

 

NO SURCHARGES

 

NO ID

 

…And if any cashier ever attempts any of these stunts, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911.

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=265954

...and for the rest of the story

 

MOST CASHIERS WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO GO TO JAIL FOR THEFT OF MONEY...why would they theft your ID

 

Not saying it WON'T happen...just that it is rare

 

I would be more worried about that 30+ year old cashier showing up at your door to visit your 15 YEAR OLD HOTTIE GIRL ABOUT A DATE

 

You gave him your ID...actually you forced him take your ID if you think about it

 

He just happened to see your address...................

 

Not saying it will happen...JUST THAT IT CAN

Edited May 21, 2009 by GEORGE

[Uncle Leo]

The post office does not *require* CAPS, but they do recommend and prefer them. Supposedly CAPS are easier for their automated mail sorter machines to read.

[Continental]

A good identity thief will be able to steal your identity after seeing your license for five seconds. The scam is relatively easy to pull off.

[sanhima]

Wrong. It is their corporate policy to not ask for any additional ID. Also, it is their corporate policy to refuse to honor unsigned cards. They have signage posted in the checkout area stating that credit cards are gladly accepted if signed by the bearer. After I pointed out to Borders corporate that a location here was requiring ID, I received a call from the store manager who addressed it, told me what their policy is, and told me that if I had any other problems to please see her or one of the floor supervisors. This was when I learned they would no longer be accepting unsigned cards.

Then someone is not on the up and up or they weren't that concerned at all that my ID was requested for a $1.95 drink. In the 10 years we've shopped at the various locations in our area (10 stores total, including Waldenbooks) we've never ever come across this. Ever. Before I filed for bankruptcy, we could spend upwards of $150 on books (hey, manga is expensive, especially if you don't get it for a couple of months). Not once were we ever carded.

Crooked cashier may well be an identity thief who belongs in prison.

 

NO MINIMUMS

 

NO MAXIMUMS

 

NO SURCHARGES

 

NO ID

 

…And if any cashier ever attempts any of these stunts, immediately call 1-800-VISA-911.

 

http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=265954

...and for the rest of the story

 

MOST CASHIERS WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO GO TO JAIL FOR THEFT OF MONEY...why would they theft your ID

 

Not saying it WON'T happen...just that it is rare

 

I would be more worried about that 30+ year old cashier showing up at your door to visit your 15 YEAR OLD HOTTIE GIRL ABOUT A DATE

 

You gave him your ID...actually you forced him take your ID if you think about it

 

He just happened to see your address...................

 

Not saying it will happen...JUST THAT IT CAN

 

I have refused to show ID to various places and have yet to be told I can't take the items I've purchased.

 

Places I've refused to show ID:

 

Best Buy

FYE

local grocery store

Walmart

Target

 

I haven't posted here because honestly it was a matter of the cashier shrugging and going on with their duties. Only FYE gave me a hassle and told me they'd refuse to give me the item I just purchased. So I asked for my money back. After all, if they can't agree to be bound by the Visa Merchant agreement, they can't have my money. Period.

 

I only posted about the Borders incident because I found it interesting that they'd want to card me for a drink, yet let a more expensive purchase go.