Payday Loan Issue -(Yes, I know, never again)

[TX2MOMMY]

Okay, I have read several other posts about people getting in trouble or getting in too deep with payday loans. Unfortunately, I didn;t read them until AFTER DH & I both took one out. The week we were supposed to pay them back, his truck broke down and we had to pour a bunch of money into that to get it fixed. That has been about a month ago and we still have not been able to pay them back. Things are really tight right now. I have no idea if there has been fees or extra interest tacked on, I can only assume so. When I talked to the lady at the place she only said she couldn't tell me any amounts over the phone and that I would have to come in to the store to find out how much we owe. Well, since we are late on paying this, the woman has been calling my home, my cell phone and my work constantly. She has called my sister-in-law atleast twice and harassed her because we put her down as a reference. Well, today this woman shows up at my office and asks to speak to me! I had actually just left to go home for lunch so I wasn't there to talk to her. How humiliating is that?!? My boss and the people that work with me and for me now know that their is a creditor chasing me down. Well, when I wasn't at work, she went to my house an started banging on my door. I assume she knew I was there because my car was in the driveway but I didn't answer the door. When it was time to leave to go back to work, I was peeping out the blinds to make sure she wasn't outside in her car or parked down the street waiting for me. It made me feel like a criminal or like I had a stalker. I hate this but we can't pay it right now.

Is it legal under Federal or Texas law for a creditor to show up at your job? I know they can call until you aske them to stop, which I did and she continues anyway. But can they go there and harass you in person in front of all of your coworkers?

Are payday loans regulated under the FCRA or the FDCPA? Since the loan is through a bank but the store is basically a retail outlet to funnel it through, then how does it work when the employee of the store begins to stalk you like that?

HELP PLEASE!

[praesignis]

WTF? That sounds WAY illegal to me. A creditor CANNOT harass.

[luvgoodcredit]

All I can say is that she is lucky that it is not me that she's stalking. I would beat the dogsh*t out of her and claim that I was scared that she was my DH's crazy ex-girlfriend trying to kill me (I watch waaaay too much Lifetime Movie Network).

[DirtyHowi]

if you lack a badge or a warrant (hence the badge) i have a horrible habit of answering the door with a 12 ga. in my hand.

[hunter29180]

NEXT TIME SHE SHOWS UP AT WORK OR CALLS, HAVE YOUR BOSS OR CO-WORKER TELL HER TO NOT ATTEMPT CONTACT AT WORK AGAIN!! Untill this happens she can do this. also she is consitered a OC under the law.(at least in north and south carolina) You can also send a limited C&D to the manager of the branch you dealt with. But if you will send them a written payment plan they will usually accept it as long as you keep your word. If they dont suggest they stay in line till you are better off with the rest of the ones who dont want any money. remember ultimatly they only want your MONEY!!

[TX2MOMMY]

All I can say is that she is lucky that it is not me that she's stalking. I would beat the dogsh*t out of her and claim that I was scared that she was my DH's crazy ex-girlfriend trying to kill me (I watch waaaay too much Lifetime Movie Network).

Yeah, I am glad I wasn't here because I probably would have LOST it and embarassed myself in front of my coworkers. I can have quite the temper when tested.

 

also she is consitered a OC under the law.

In Texas, OC's are including in our debt collectors laws, if I am not mistaken. Whether she is considered an OC or a CA, it still doesn't seem like it would be legal to show up at someone's place of employment. Can someone direct me to anything that states this is a violation of Federal or Texas law?

[manlystanley]

All I can say is that she is lucky that it is not me that she's stalking. I would beat the dogsh*t out of her and claim that I was scared that she was my DH's crazy ex-girlfriend trying to kill me (I watch waaaay too much Lifetime Movie Network).

Yeah, I am glad I wasn't here because I probably would have LOST it and embarassed myself in front of my coworkers. I can have quite the temper when tested.

 

also she is consitered a OC under the law.

In Texas, OC's are including in our debt collectors laws, if I am not mistaken. Whether she is considered an OC or a CA, it still doesn't seem like it would be legal to show up at someone's place of employment. Can someone direct me to anything that states this is a violation of Federal or Texas law?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if this helps, but it may lead you in the right direction:

 

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/AG_Publications/txts/debt.shtml

 

Here's another link which addresses work harassment:

 

"How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts. "

 

http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/consumer...on/DebtColl.htm

Edited May 26, 2005 by manlystanley

[belleama]

Wholey Crap!!! I can't believe she did that!! If I were you I'd just start filing complaints against them with the AG, banking comissioner, the FTC, the BBB, and anybody else you can think of. Make sure you also send or fax them a letter IMMEDIATELY telling them that they can only contact you in writing at you HOME and that they are not to contact you at work EVER!!

 

This crap makes my blood boil

[belleama]

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure you did not agree to be contacted in person at work, right?

[centex]

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not agree to be contacted in person at work, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

Edited May 26, 2005 by centex

[TX2MOMMY]

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

Wow, I have never had anyone be this bold before so I naturally didn't think to send them a letter saying please don't show up on my place of employment. Guess I will be doing that now. It just blows my mind that they would stoop that low. I checked the Tx Finance Code and it doesn't specifically prohibit this. It says they can't harass you by using abusive language or causing your phone to ring repeatedly in order to annoy you, but it doesn't say they can't pay you a visit at work. That sucks!

[belleama]

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not agree to be contacted in person at work, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It says "unless you agree." It doesn't say unless they feel like it.

[centex]

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

Wow, I have never had anyone be this bold before so I naturally didn't think to send them a letter saying please don't show up on my place of employment. Guess I will be doing that now. It just blows my mind that they would stoop that low. I checked the Tx Finance Code and it doesn't specifically prohibit this. It says they can't harass you by using abusive language or causing your phone to ring repeatedly in order to annoy you, but it doesn't say they can't pay you a visit at work. That sucks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you had a cooperative executive staff, then I would suggest that they draft a letter that places the company on notice that future appearances in the building or on the property would be considered Criminal Trespass (30.05 TPC). That extends protection to any employee that had a similar situation with that lender...

[centex]

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not agree to be contacted in person at work, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It says "unless you agree." It doesn't say unless they feel like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Please tell me where specifically in either the federal statute or in the Texas Finance Code an agreement is required before an initial contact at a place of employment may be made (notwithstanding prior notice that such is not permissible). Short answer- you won't be able to do it. An administrative dumbing down of an interpretation is not binding. The contact appears to have, at least thusfar, occurred ONE time. That is not something that would be a violation of ANY law unless there was a prior notice pertaining to criminal trespass that was posted at the worksite.

[belleama]

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not agree to be contacted in person at work, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But if no express written direction is given NOT to come into the workplace and no trespass warnings have been given to that party or company, then the appearance is not illegal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It says "unless you agree." It doesn't say unless they feel like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It says ...

 

 

 

Please tell me where specifically in either the federal statute or in the Texas Finance Code an agreement is required before an initial contact at a place of employment may be made (notwithstanding prior notice that such is not permissible). Short answer- you won't be able to do it. An administrative dumbing down of an interpretation is not binding. The contact appears to have, at least thusfar, occurred ONE time. That is not something that would be a violation of ANY law unless there was a prior notice pertaining to criminal trespass that was posted at the worksite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It says...

 

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

Of course they know that it is inconvient to contact you at work in person and you did not agree to have them, or anyone else for that matter, show up and harrass, or attempt to harrass, you at work.

 

 

Edited to add: I got that quote from this site http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/consumer...on/DebtColl.htm

Edited May 26, 2005 by belleama

[centex]

It says...

 

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

Of course they know that it is inconvient to contact you at work in person and you did not agree to have them, or anyone else for that matter, show up and harrass, or attempt to harrass, you at work.

 

 

Edited to add: I got that quote from this site http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/consumer...on/DebtColl.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And what you quote is not the law...it is a dumbed down interpretation for the masses. The phrase "unless you agree" appears nowhere in the actual statute.

 

It is equally irrational to automatically presume that the workplace is an inconvenient place of contact. There is nothing here that is suggestive of the legal burden of harassment having been met. The mere fact that someone the OP is ducking appeared at the workplace is neither stalking nor harassment. If you would like, I will be more than happy to provide you with a faxed copy of the relevant Texas law (since that Code IS on my desk).

 

edited to add that the comment on harassment applies to the one-time uneventful arrival in the place of employ...not enough information to know whether there is a basis to file criminally for the home contact.

Edited May 26, 2005 by centex

[belleama]

It says...

 

How may a debt collector contact you?

A collector may contact you in person, by mail, telephone, telegram, or fax. However, a debt collector may not contact you at inconvenient times or places, such as before 8:00 a.m. or after 9:00 p.m., unless you agree. A debt collector also may not contact you at work if the collector knows that your employer disapproves of such contacts.

 

Of course they know that it is inconvient to contact you at work in person and you did not agree to have them, or anyone else for that matter, show up and harrass, or attempt to harrass, you at work.

 

 

Edited to add: I got that quote from this site http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/consumer...on/DebtColl.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And what you quote is not the law...it is a dumbed down interpretation for the masses. The phrase "unless you agree" appears nowhere in the actual statute.

 

It is equally irrational to automatically presume that the workplace is an inconvenient place of contact. There is nothing here that is suggestive of the legal burden of harassment having been met. The mere fact that someone the OP is ducking appeared at the workplace is neither stalking nor harassment. If you would like, I will be more than happy to provide you with a faxed copy of the relevant Texas law (since that Code IS on my desk).

 

edited to add that the comment on harassment applies to the one-time uneventful arrival in the place of employ...not enough information to know whether there is a basis to file criminally for the home contact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Perhaps you are correct about what the statue says but I'd be very surprised if the AG and OCCC agreed that they are allowed to show up at her place of employment, announce to everyone there that she was from a payday loan company looking for payment, and then show up at the OPs home and start banging on the door. That is atleast staking and harassment. Regardless of whether or not she's trying to collect a debt a person cannot do what she did. Just like I can not just show up at your office and at your home just because I felt like it.

[centex]

Perhaps you are correct about what the statue says but I'd be very surprised if the AG and OCCC agreed that they are allowed to show up at her place of employment, announce to everyone there that she was from a payday loan company looking for payment, and then show up at the OPs home and start banging on the door. That is atleast staking and harassment. Regardless of whether or not she's trying to collect a debt a person cannot do what she did. Just like I can not just show up at your office and at your home just because I felt like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Strictly speaking, the OP has never claimed that the person announced who they were with or what their purpose was in seeking out the OP. A single appearance is neither stalking nor harassment.

 

On the subject of strictly speaking...you could show up at my office simply because you felt like it because there was no prior notice to you or posted that such was not welcomed...in the office, I would have my receptionist kindly provide you with that warning if I did not want to talk with you, while at the house, it would likely be me chambering a round in a Colt Z-40 if you chose to disregard my guidance to leave the property. And since it is Texas, better make sure it isn't night time that you come knocking

[TX2MOMMY]

If it isn't illegal to appear in person at an individual's place of employment in order to harass or coerce them into paying a debt then I am surprised more creditors and collectors aren't doing it. We all know that they do alot of things that are pretty low in order to get payment out of a debtor. That is kindof why I thought this was way out of line and possibly illegal, because it is the first time I have heard of anyone doing that.

I did find this......

Texas Administrative Code

Title 7. Banking And Securities

Part 1. Finance Commission Of Texas

Chapter 1. Consumer Credit Commissioner

Subchapter K. Prohibitions on Authorized Lenders

§1.861. COLLECTION CONTACTS. (a) A licensee or the licensee's agent shall have the right to contact any person in order to secure information concerning a borrower unless any person other than the borrower, the borrower's spouse, a member of the borrower's household, a comaker, endorser, surety, or guarantor of the obligation, objects to any contact by a licensee or the licensee's agent. Upon receipt of the objection, the licensee or agent, shall cease and desist from any further contact with the person.

 

( A licensee or the licensee's agent shall not solicit the payment of all or any part of any debt subject to this title from any person other than the borrower, the borrower's spouse, a member of the borrower's household, a comaker, endorser, surety, or guarantor of the obligation.

 

© Without the prior written consent of the borrower given directly to the licensee or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a licensee may not communicate with a borrower in connection with the collection of a loan at any unusual time or place. In the absence of any knowledge to the contrary, a licensee can assume that the convenient time for communicating with a borrower is after 8:00 a.m. and before 9:00 p.m., local time at the borrower's location.

(d) Without the prior written consent of the borrower given directly to the licensee or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a licensee may not communicate with a borrower in connection with the collection of a loan at the borrower's place of employment if the licensee knows or has reason to believe that the borrower's employer prohibits the borrower from receiving the communication.

[sbbent]

My mom just told me yesterday about what happened to her recently...

 

My family owned a business, which has had some pretty bad financial problems lately. So bad that they sold the business a couple of weeks ago, and only got enough money out of the sale to pay secured creditors. There was no money to pay unsecured creditors.

 

One of these creditors was a towing company for a $600 bill (yeah, they TOTALLY overcharged). This was one that couldn't be paid, and my mom told the company about the sale of the business, etc.

 

Well, the owner of the company and another large man came to the office when my mom was there by herself tying up some loose ends. The one guy completely blocked the door so she couldn't go anywhere, and the owner of the towing co got in my mom's face screaming at her and intimidating her. They wouldn't leave, and wouldn't let her get near a phone so she could call the police.

 

Needless to say, she was terrified. She ended up writing them a check, even though she really couldn't afford to, because she really didn't have any other options.

 

They shouldn't be able to get away with stuff like this. It's one thing for creditors to call and harass you about a bill, but to come to your work or home is ridiculous! Especially when their only motive is to intimidate the hell out of you.

 

Sorry...just had to rant about that. When she told me about that I was just dumbfounded.

[centex]

(d) Without the prior written consent of the borrower given directly to the licensee or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a licensee may not communicate with a borrower in connection with the collection of a loan at the borrower's place of employment if the licensee knows or has reason to believe that the borrower's employer prohibits the borrower from receiving the communication.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which brings us back to the question of what steps had you taken to communicate what your employer permitted? There is nothing present thus far in this thread that is suggestive of that direction being communicated. As such, the single contact IS NOT a breach of Texas law.

[travelgrl]

I would be putting a stop payment on that check!

[belleama]

Well, since we are late on paying this, the woman has been calling my home, my cell phone and my work constantly. She has called my sister-in-law atleast twice and harassed her because we put her down as a reference. Well, today this woman shows up at my office and asks to speak to me!

 

My boss and the people that work with me and for me now know that their is a creditor chasing me down. Well, when I wasn't at work, she went to my house an started banging on my door.

 

And all of this is considered ONE contact under the TX state laws?

 

 

 

Edited to fix typos

Edited May 26, 2005 by belleama

[TX2MOMMY]

I have personally asked her to not call me at work. My receptionist has asked her to not contact me at work on several occasions. She has continued to call and put in a personal appearance today when she was unsuccessful in reaching me. Now, I would say since she has been told atleast 5 times that she has reason to believe it is inconvenient to try to collect a debt from me while I am at work. I will be putting it in writing now since she obviously doesn't listen to verbal instructions.

[belleama]

I have personally asked her to not call me at work. My receptionist has asked her to not contact me at work on several occasions. She has continued to call and put in a personal appearance today when she was unsuccessful in reaching me. Now, I would say since she has been told atleast 5 times that she has reason to believe it is inconvenient to try to collect a debt from me while I am at work. I will be putting it in writing now since she obviously doesn't listen to verbal instructions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Make sure you Mail(CMRRR) and Fax that to her. Then start with the complaints to the appropriote agencies. This kind of crap has go to stop!!