Avoiding Duns headaches

[losartworks]

In over one year of lurking and two more years of actual posting I have noted one ever constant factor.... Dun & Bradstreet are the leading cause of headaches for businesses trying to build a credit file. New business owners are especially prone to the sales pitches thrown by commission hungry Duns sales reps. Just about every new business owner tends to ask a question about Duns or ends up complaining about them. Understandable! The front lines of D&B are covered by the lecherous scum also known as Duns sales representatives. Heck, more often than not if you are trying to get a Duns number from them it starts the vicious cycle of how worthless simply having the number will be and how you 'need' to buy CreditBuilder or another product to have a full rated file. If you haven't surmised it from other threads yet, the plain and simple fact is, you do NOT need to buy Anything from Duns to end up with a fully rated file! Duns sales reps will lie to you six ways from Sunday to make a sale.

 

Unlike personal credit CRAs, Duns is not governed by the FCRA. They are a loose canon existing within a realm of pure gray area when it comes to regulation. Simply put, they can screw you and get away with it if your not watching!

 

First thing that has often been misunderstood because it's stated in one of the newbie stickies is that you need to get a Duns number in order to have a file. That you need to contact Duns to open a file/number. This is misinformation! The stickies are vastly informative and have a lot of great info. But this bit of info is completely false.

a Duns number can and is Automatically created by either of these things: 1- When your first net 30 account reports the tradeline the Duns system will automatically create you number and file. 2-if your incorporated, the Secretary of State in your state will often automatically report your corporation's existence as it reports quarterly or semi annually to Duns. I am unsure if Every states SOS office in fact does this. Many I know Do. The best bet for auto creation is to simply open some starter net 30 internet based office suppliers (Nebs, Reliable, Quill, Uline, etc, etc). Be sure and USE the account and then promptly pay the invoice you get. Most of these places will open you a net 30 terms account with as little as a 411 phone listing for your company. There are enough of these vendors out there to use if one or the other gives you grief insisting they need to see a credit file. Some of these vendors may ask you to place an initial prepaid order. No biggie. Get it out of the way and move on to having a net 30 terms account. Many will open you one from the start no questions asked.

 

If you need a Duns number immediately it can often be gotten from the government contracts site....

http://fedgov.dnb.com/webform/displayHomeP...559AD8125BD2A47

 

Though it's just as easy to let it auto create. The thing you MUST be is PATIENT! It's not gonna all happen in a day or even a week. If you miss out on the vendors reporting cycle it may take a number of weeks for the net 30 to report. But given your alternative of calling the main Duns numbers and getting the load of crapola from the commission hungry reps and possibly getting your file flagged by a rep who is going to try to hamstring you or otherwise extort services from you, it would be wise to just let it auto create.

 

Again, you do NOT NEED to go calling Duns to get a number or file. Just like Experian business files, Duns too will auto create with the SOS or first tradeline data!

 

When you do a search on Duns for your business and it finally shows up, then you want to get eupdate access. In order to access your eupdate report you need two things, your Duns number and an eupdate password. The easiest way to accomplish this is to click your business when it shows up in a search. It will give you several different type reports you can buy on the company. Select the cheapie $9.99 basic report. All your wanting is the Duns number here. Buying more expensive reports will likely not yield any other info given how new your company is. Don't waste your money. Spend the $9.99. Buy the report. You will then get to see your Duns number.

 

Ok, go to eupdate....

https://eupdate.dnb.com/default.asp?cm_re=H...s*UpdateProfile

Bookmark this page. Bu t do not do anything yet cause chances are if you fill out the sign up info at this point your just gonna get an error page saying your entered info doesn't match whats on file. The real problem actually is that your report doesn't have all the info on file for the eupdate system to match against.

 

Instead, call 866-834-4699. This is the entity department. Tell them your Duns number and your having an issue getting your eupdate password. They will either verify company info with you right then and there or they will take your company and phone number and put you on the callback list for their department. If they tell you the rep will call you, they will and be sure to Answer the phone when you see them calling (this department is not the sales department) they will run down the company info asking about biz stats and owners, etc. They will probably ask for financials to round out your report. All this really means is they want a copy of a balance sheet. If you don't do them typically, go on Google and find a balance sheet template and fill it out. They will give you a fax number to send it to.

After they take your info you need to let the new info register in their system. This may take a day or two. At this point if they haven't already emailed you an eupdate password, the info that will allow the system to send you one should now be on their system and you can go up to the aforementioned eupdate link and sign up. They should simply send you one within a day or two after taking all your info. Be sure to give them your email and speak clearly since many of these guys are outsourced and English is a second language.

 

When you talk to the rep at the above number or the one that calls you back, be sure to get their direct number and extension as to follow up should they put an error in your file like an incorrectly spelled name or phone number.

 

When you get your eupdate password log in. Do Not choose the edit profile option. Just choose the one that lets you see the report. Any time you hit the edit button, Duns keeps a running count and if you go into edit mode too much they will flag your file. You can get updates done easier when dealing with this department anyway. Most things you enter into eupdate will get you a verification call from Duns anyway, so just don't screw with the edit section.

Also don't look at your eupdate every day. Updates are typically only done once a week and visible on Sundays anyway. So look on Sunday.

 

Other helpful hints.... Do NOT go on app sprees. Inquiries set off alarms with Duns and gets your file sent to an early fraud department which often results in your file being frozen with all reporting data and ratings removed and them writing some nasty comments down.

 

There is NO reason to call the main Duns numbers or even deal with the sales scum. There is not even any good reason to go get your Duns number as to simply letting it auto create. I know some folks need it for Government bidding, but plan it out a little ahead of time and get the number by auto creation and you will have taken a serious step at avoiding the front line sales slime that is the main reason for most peoples complaints.

There are departments within Duns who are not on commission and will never try to sell you a thing. You just need to go in the back door.

 

Good luck!

[OJOY]

Simply put, they can screw you and get away with it if your not watching!

 

Great post but I don't think they care if you are watching or not.

 

I've also read that if you check eupdate every Sunday they will sometimes target you because you appear to be building Biz credit.

 

I check every Sunday anyway!

[gregcjackson]

This should be a sticky.

[losartworks]

Simply put, they can screw you and get away with it if your not watching!

 

Great post but I don't think they care if you are watching or not.

 

I've also read that if you check eupdate every Sunday they will sometimes target you because you appear to be building Biz credit.

 

I check every Sunday anyway!

 

a couple years back when some of us were a lot more naive and reckless, we checked eupdate just about every day. Some paid the ultimate price for it. Over time the thought has developed that Duns seems to monitor our monitoring. So not only do they count how often we go into edit mode, but also how often you check to look at your eupdate. The edit counter is one that I'm sure has a lower threshold of setting off alarms, though prevailing wisdom suggests to stay out of edit all together and only check the eupdate no more than once a week, and if you can hold off every other Sunday. I personally don't think it's any huge deal if you look every Sunday, but just keep in mind that they see and know when you check your report and the last thing you want them thinking is you are obsessed with your report.

 

Oh, and I do agree. They will screw you looking or not.

[DonDeal]

I personally wouldn't pay them anything to see a free eupdate report ...

 

The gov't side of duns will give you your dnb number over the phone if your file is already created. If the information matches up when you request an eupdate pw then it's instantly emailed to you.

 

To avoid this hassle just take 5mins and create your own file to guarantee that the information you input matches up and your pw will instantly be sent to you when you request it.

 

(I had alot of problems trying to get an eupdate pw for one of my older companies last year because the phone company auto-created my file. They wouldn't give it to me. I have given up trying to get it for that business and just rely on experian for that one.)

 

Also, another one of my businesses has been locked out because of an app spree so definitely tread lightly with the apps.

 

I ALWAYS get a call on monday or tuesday from a rep telling me that he saw me login to one of my corps eupdate 2 days ago and the information in my file is not correct ....blah blah blah ..... I ignore them because I can afford to at times. In the sense that if I ever get screwed by DNB I always have an experian file building as well. So the world would be great with them indeed, but I could definitely live without them if push comes to shove with my file.

Edited March 16, 2007 by DonDeal

[losartworks]

I certainly concur that IF you can get the info free from them then it's the way to go. But it's very inconsistent as even the folks at the government number give you grief to buy products on occasion or try to extort. I simply suggest that the path of lowest risk is the $9 method. But sure, if you can get the right guy on the phone who won't jerk you around you can get the number for nothing. But you can always get it quick for the $9. It boils down to a matter of preference. You can avoid the $9 price if you call the government number and get someone who shoots straight (if you don't hang up and try again) or if you want it fast with no issues just pay the $9. But whatever you do, do NOT call the main lines.

[Jasonc5]

Last week i applied for Home depot, I was denied cause they said my file had nothing in it and was blank, But the week before that i was given a Office depot card for 2k. So far i have a Staples card for 750.00 and a office depot card for 2k, also was approved for dell last nite for 5k.

 

So do i contact Duns or contact home depot again and see what the next person can do?

 

My corp has been in business since 9/06 and paid all on time.

[slobutsure]

Last week i applied for Home depot, I was denied cause they said my file had nothing in it and was blank, But the week before that i was given a Office depot card for 2k. So far i have a Staples card for 750.00 and a office depot card for 2k, also was approved for dell last nite for 5k.

 

So do i contact Duns or contact home depot again and see what the next person can do?

 

My corp has been in business since 9/06 and paid all on time.

 

 

Have you pulled your file on eupdate lately? Probably something you can fix by talking to D&B. Hopefully you get a good rep.

[Deaf CEO]

Last week i applied for Home depot, I was denied cause they said my file had nothing in it and was blank, But the week before that i was given a Office depot card for 2k. So far i have a Staples card for 750.00 and a office depot card for 2k, also was approved for dell last nite for 5k.

 

So do i contact Duns or contact home depot again and see what the next person can do?

 

My corp has been in business since 9/06 and paid all on time.

 

I have to go back and reedit this...

 

How long have you have the Staples Card?

 

You just got the Office Depot Card - so you gonna have to wait till it reports.

 

From what I understand now there a cycle thing.. Sept 2006 wasnt that long ago.. but you are already over the 90 days marks for your business. Getting 2k for office depot is good vs the dinky $250

Edited March 16, 2007 by Deaf CEO

[vecm1]

Thanks so much for this info it is priceless

[losartworks]

Good luck! I think that the newbie stickie offers great info, but is definitely flawed with our current knowledge that you don't need to call and solicit Duns for a number/file and it will simply auto create.

I would speculate that well over 90% of the reasons people are beating their heads against a wall over Duns could be avoided if they just did just a few simple things....

 

A-Don't deal with Duns front line sales slime. Find one of the back doors.

 

B-Stay out of eupdate edit mode and don't monitor your eupdate more than 3 times a month.

 

C-Lay off the damn App Sprees!

 

you control these factors and your chances of having crap from Duns drops greatly!

[gregcjackson]

A. I got my Duns # about 3 years before I started building business credit. I used to sell a product to businesses and ran business apps with DNB# so I just knew I needed one- and then basically forgot about it. I was able to retrieve my # because the Duns# Used to showup in the URL for your company record. I don't think that is the case anymore, but not sure.

 

So my sense of how easy this works is obviously time-skewed. It's good to always get more info and continuously re-evaluate the processes.

 

B. I used "'Edit" once and never again. I think doing that may have contributed to my previous issues with DnB. Personally, not only do I not check BIR through eUpdate weekly, I do it at most once a MONTH. Even starting out I tried to limit it. Especially now, I am not actively applying for new accounts. I am just trying to maintain,pay, get CLIs,etc. So I just check every once in awhile to make sure things are cool. Even when I was actively building, I didnt feel the need to check all the time. Things take time, whats the point.

 

C. I have always done what I refer to as MINI app-sprees. I would do at an absolute maximum 4 apps at a time, then I would wait at least a month and usually several months before applying for anything else. At the very least I would wait for any new accounts to report AND report as paid/paidoff ( in the case of net 30s at least- I preferred to have a $100 line with $100 paid and $0 Now Owes).

[OJOY]

Excellent advice!

 

I think that the people who will disregard this will be the people who are chomping at the bit to get their credit building going.

 

Early on I went the “I WANT IT NOW†route and paid for it with about 6 weeks of trying to straighten things out.

 

Had I known this info when I started out last September, I’d at least be where I am now or possibly even further along without a huge amount of DNB hassles.

[losartworks]

I don't think theres anything at all wrong with limiting yourself to 5 apps or less in a month, but even at that quantity you do not want to do it every month.

The things that will get Duns into a hissy fit are the folks who do about 15-25 apps in a month! Or have a day where they fax an app to every vendor known to man. It's Not about quantity. If your going for quantity, or otherwise being an Elmo just for the fun of it, then your gonna end up getting in a hole real quick. You can Not follow the patterns of the scammers.

Scammers build up credit without concern for much other than getting as much as they can. they are simply going to convert it to product or convert to gift card and sell for cash! So they will go for credit anywhere! You just can't replicate their patterns or you'll eventually get your file locked. Scammers don't care because they typically have multiple businesses going on at once and if one gets knocked out, so what. They start another.

 

 

Patience is a Big thing lacking for some people. Lack of it will lead to disaster.

[Jasonc5]

Well i opened the mail containing the letter from HD today, Well it says they need to to send verifaction of my address, and company name, Basically they want a utility bill faxed over to them. when i called for the fax number they said i was approved, but the next step they required was the letter. Intresting.

[DonDeal]

Well i opened the mail containing the letter from HD today, Well it says they need to to send verifaction of my address, and company name, Basically they want a utility bill faxed over to them. when i called for the fax number they said i was approved, but the next step they required was the letter. Intresting.

 

Hmm strange. Just fax over the utility bill. HD is easy.

[Jimmy Page]

Thanks so much for this info it is priceless

Anytime.

[losartworks]

Me thinks someone is a bit Dazed and Confused. Or just trying to stir the pot, in which case I'm not interested.

[my2sons]

Thank you Los. This info is much appreciated.

[blackop]

Great post Los ! I applied for my 2nd business through your link on Saturday 3/17 and got the email with duns# on Tuesday 3/20. Talked with no one.Good looking out on this one.

[Jimmy Page]

This should be a sticky.

Sure should be.

 

To The Moderators: Please edit the unnecessary references to human beings as "slime" and other cruel, derogatory remarks and Sticky this baby.

[empire3g000]

I wish I would of read this article sooner, my stuff and i had no idea. But even that , They are still incorrect.

CAN ANYONE ADVISE ME WHAT TO DO WITH THIS UNJUST ACT FROM DNB? The Following is part of a letter we send to DNB Seriver Risk Dpt. after getting shut down and falesely accused.

 

We are outrage beyond words after yesterday we find this written paragraph on Em**** Evalue report ( OUR P SCORE WAS 80 WITH SIX REFERECES ALL CHECKOUT ):

 

SPECIAL EVENT: 03/20/07

 

In previous communications, management submitted information to D&B indicating that Em****, Inc is a corporation that started in 2002 and operates as a business consultant. Additionally, management indicated that the company has six total employees and operates from 923 N ******* ***, Los Angeles; CA. Management provided a business phone number of (213) ***-****.

 

On March 20, 2007, a check with the California Secretary of State revealed that a corporate charter was registered under the name Em**** 3G, Inc on June 9, 2004. In addition a check with the D&B historical database revealed that the report for Em******, Inc was created in 2005. The extent of operations prior to 2005 could not be verified through third-party sources and as a result 2005 will be used as the business start date.

 

On March 20, 2007, a reverse look-up revealed that the reported phone number was registered to the business in Tampa, FL. No street address was provided with that listing. On March 20, 2007, a check with the Florida Secretary of State revealed no evidence of a corporate charter or fictitious business name filing under Em******, Inc. In addition, a check with the City of Tampa, FL, revealed no evidence of a business license being issued to the company. It is also noted that *******.***, Ste 208, Los Angeles, CA, is the address of the company's registered agent. Physical location, if any, is undetermined.

 

A review of the D&B historical database shows that between January 22, 2007 and March 20, 2007, there has been in excess of three times the number of customer inquiries for that time period, as there had been during the period between November 11, 2005 and January 21, 2007.

 

In addition, since the report was created, Em***** Inc has experienced a high number of updates at the request of the business principal(s) and a high number of requests for, and/or reviews of, the company's credit report by the business principal(s).

 

Due to the discrepancies listed above, financial and credit information will be withheld.

 

They have suspended Em******s business profile and the references we had work to build for the last days, weeks, and years. At the very same time destroying our company�€™s reputation, morals and credibity. The unfortunate part of the reason why this had happening was simply the lack of communications between two parties. Without communications ones interpretation turns into assumptions and speculations that can evolve into a very dangerous predicament for the other party that is involved. All we are asking for is fairness & communications. Do not execute someone without letting him or her a chance to express their side of the story. I will dispute in the following to the best and the tunefulness of heart. In the end, there are always going to be questions and doubts being rise by the indifferent mind and will not be any different in this situation. But I still have faith that the truth will raise to the top. I will provide support to every statement I make; including your request of the Business Licenses, Phone Bill, and Sublease Agreement.

 

1/ We have only updated the company info three times; once through our sales person D******** via information transfer by email to him as suggested. When we learn from the website that we should also includes demographics of our branch office in Hong Kong, we had then fax in a more completed profile to S******* who customer service recomended to us. And a third time on the update site looking around and imputed our fax number cause we saw it missing.

 

2/ After studying the discrepancies closely, there are key points we would like to alert you that may help clarify the portion of confusions regarding the start date/ incorporation date issues. In the company profile portions pages that we faxed to Sco*****, there is a History & Missions page together with other information. But if you carefully read the History & Mission page, the very first sentence clearly stated as following, �€œ Business started 2002 by ******* & *******. Incorporated in 2004.

 

3/ The Broadway physical address is a real office that we sublease from one of our family relatives in Chinatown Los Angeles. The 213 *** **** is a real phone line that my assistant open with ATT that we at times forward to an answer service company that provide us with a 1-800 number to do so called �€œAnswerFirst�€� which is a Florida base company. Due to of the natural the high volume of traveling to Asia, it is very sensible, economical, and efficient to use a systems such as virtual sectary.

 

4/ The reason why the database shows high volume of review of our dnb report is because we pay over $800.00 dollars on the 01/21/07. None of our references started getting updated till a good 3 plus weeks later. I was told that this process of updating takes a total of 2 weeks. The point is of course there were more activities because we thought we were getting rip off. We put up close to a grant and nothing was happening. Would anyone react in a similar behavior pattern in that situation?

We kept trying to get a hold of this one specific person that is assign to our account but no one else can do anything, We finally got a hold of him, he requesred a phone bill, business lience and a sublease agreement which we provided him via fax the next day but till now, this unjust and demaging note is still posted.

CAN ANYONE HELP?

 

FOERVER GRATFUL

[alo]

Los,

 

I must say this is an EXCELLENT post!!!

[losartworks]

Well, a lot of folks seemed to be getting hung up on the solicitation of Duns for a number not realizing that they didn't need to go through that headach to begin with. the stickie above for newbies has some great info, but is flawed in regard to the necessity to get a Duns number when it will simply auto create. Just that that point needed a little clarity and hopefully will save people some grief.

[snafkins]

Los,

 

I must say this is an EXCELLENT post!!!

 

 

 

 

GREAT Post!! Answered alot of questions!