chaddz3

My city just installed Red light enforcement cameras and Speed Enforcement cameras through out town. If you get tagged by one of them, there is no criminal penalty as if you were pulled over by an officer, but the city will turn the "fine" over to a collection agency and report it as a bad debt on your Credit Reports if you fail to pay it. If this were to happen, what would be the best way to defeat them using FDCPA and FCRA and other Credit Repair techniques? Just curious.

I didnt recommend trashing the car, just dropping it off as is. I mentioned that i had trashed my car prior to repo as that is what had happened in my case. The car is no where near in value what is owed against it and in my honest opinion, the car's value doesnt justify the additional cost to repair. I would just cut my losses on it and deal with the collection aspect once it gets to that point. Wells Fargo is a large enough company that it is likely they will mess up this repo like they did mine, making any deficiency balance a non issue (per UCC code article 9) . And they will very likely sell the debt off to a JDB for pennies on the dollar just to get it off their books and in the process, the JDB/CA will not recieve any supporting paperwork to collect with. Basically at that point its thier word against yours and they have no supporting proof on deficiency at which point they have no case. At that point the OP then can count thier blessings and learn from the mistakes they have made and not repeat them in the future.

Alright.. Maybe I can help here. I had a 1999 Chevy Cavalier Financed thru Wells Fargo. Nothing was initially wrong with my car, but I had some "bumpy" payments over the 4 years i owned that thing. and After 4 years I was 3 payments behind on it. I tried to work out a plan to get caught up only to get the run around and told there was nothing they could do to help, they wanted the full amount I was behind, Plus the current month's payment. I ended up doing a voluntary repo after nearly destroying the car, I took it out on a 4 wheel drive truck/snowmobile/ATV trail near where i live and when i was done, the car had both air bags deployed, the hood buckled, bent frame, hole in the oil pan and virtually no clutch left. I limped the car to the Wells Fargo Bank Branch in the town i lived in and left the thing sitting with the back bumper butted up against thier lobby doors and locked the keys in the thing and took my plates. They call the next morning wondering why i left the car there.. I told them because if you aint gonna work with me, you can eat that car for all i cared. Well they eventually sold it (scrap price i would assume), and attempted to collect the deficiency balance on it. They never sent me all of the required paperwork either before or after the repo. (they sent me some but left out some of it too) and tried for about 6 months to collect on thier own before it ended up in about 2 or 3 collection agencies which i ignored hoping they would give up. They would and it would only end up in another CA until it finally ended up with a JDB that was ruthless and wouldnt give up for nothing about 3 years later. I sparred back and forth for almost a year before i found this site and started using Whychat's methods and eventually threatened to sue the JDB for attempting to collect a debt that didnt legally exist (improper repo/paperwork procedures). I also turned them in to AG of thier state and mine, along with the FTC and the morning i planned to file the lawsuit, they overnighted me a letter telling me that they effectively give up and wanted no part of me. This was back in 2006, so things may have changed since then, but hopefully it gives you some insight in what to expect and how things could work. Yes you can voluntarily surrender the vehicle at anytime.. dont let them use scare tactics on you.. Just drop it off.

if liberty point now is the owner of your account, watch them like a hawk. They WILL sue eventually, at least from all the research i have done. They are an extremely aggressive CA, you NEED to find out what they have as far as proof. Your case is a little different as you said the OC did cross it's T's and Dot all of its I's. in my case my repo was illegal which gave me an Ace to play. You're situation is most likely going to be more difficult. Also in my case, Liberty Point didn't have substantial proof that i owed them anything, during my last phone call with them, i baited them for information and i took their response as they had no justifiable proof of the debt, so i went to war with them... Also keep your radar up for FDCPA violations, they very likely WILL violate them attempting to collect this thing.

basically elcheapo, this is whatcha gotta do... if they effectively give ya the finger when ya use the whychat doctrine as im gonna call it.. you have to be willing to ENFORCE it... complain to the proper people and complain LOUDLY... SUE the CA and OC if you have to, sometimes a lawsuit is the only thing that they will respond to. otherwise they'll just think... yea he's right, we're are breaking the law, but he aint gonna actually do anything about it... NEXT... you GOTTA not only show teeth but you have to USE them if they force ya too. Thanks for the kind words frisbee... btw. Chaddz

I used whychat's info for repo disputes... i'll let ya read the letters i received back. (granted i had to call in reinforcements and im NOT completely done as i still have the original creditor reporting and havent had time to pursue them as of yet but i will soon... also another way to get the VIN number of the vehicle if you no longer have it.. If you had your vehicle serviced (oil changes, etc) at the dealer (GM dealers keep all this info for quite awhile others im sure do as well). Call the service dept of the dealer and ask to speak to a service advisor, tell them who you are and that you need the VIN number from a vehicle you used to own for legal reasons, and describe the car (make, model, year, color, etc.) I did this to get the VIN for my car during my dispute and the service advisor at the dealership was very helpful, he got the info i needed out of his service records stored in the dealer's computer. This might work for you as well... anywho... on to the results of dealing with the collection agency on this deal... I did my disputes according to whychat's instructions, the collection agency basically said that my state laws dont apply to them on repo's since they didnt do the repo they just bought the remaining deficiency balance and was trying to collect and that i needed to pay... since the collection agency was based in Arizona, i got ahold of the Arizona Dept of Financial Institutions thru the Attorney General's office and filed a complaint against the collection agency. Told the AG basically same thing i told the CA... i get these two laters in the mail in response... First is from Arizona Dept of Financial Institutions... Aug. 23, 2006 Chaddz3 My addresss my street my city, state, ZIP Reference: Complaint #(OMITTED) Dear Chaddz3 Our review of your complaint filed against Liberty Point Corporation has been completed. Thier reply to us indicates a resolution of the problem has occurred. This complaint will remain on file with this Department in a closed status. Further correspondance or communication relating to this matter should be addressed to this agency. Sincerely Tammy J. Seto Senior Examiner Consumer Affairs Division Also Attached was this letter to them from the CA... June 1 2006 Arizona Dept of Financial Institutions File No: (OMITTED) Attn: Tammy Seto Original Creditor: (OMITTED) 2910 N 44th St Current Creditor: Liberty Point Funding 2 Suite 310 Account Balance (OMITTED) Phoenix, AZ 85018 RE: Complaint #(OMITTED) Dear Ms. Seto Liberty Point is in reciept of your letter dated May 17, 2006 concerning the complaint filed by Chaddz3 We appreciate this opportunity to respond to your inquiry. In view of Chaddz3's claims, we are able to honor the following requests: Cease further collection activities Release Chaddz3 from responsibility for debt Delete account from Credit Reporting Agencies 1099-C will not be filed We feel the above actions satisfactorily address his concerns. If you would like to discuss this matter further please contact me directly at 480-308-5017 or write to Liberty Point, 8440 S. Hardy Drive Suite 102, Tempe, AZ. 85284 Our offices are open Monday-Thursday 7am to 6pm, Friday 7am to 3pm, Saturday 7am to 10am (all times Pacific Time) Sincerely Ktahy Laninga Compliance Manager 480-308-5017 So yes it DOES work... just be patient and dont be afraid to put the pressure on them if needed. the CA did send me a copy of thier letter to the Arizona Dept of Financial Institutions VIA FedEX overnight.. I recieved it on the 2nd of June, just as i was about to file a civil lawsuit against them for FCRA and FDCPA violations. after they notified me they were going away, i just let it drop.. and now planning to deal with the OC. Chaddz

One i aint seen... The Grocery store in my town also sell gas now... they have a deal going on where you get xx number of cents off per gallon with store purchase... the discount varies based on the day of the week, figure out the day of the week it is the highest, buy your groceries on that day and fill up the tank at the same time to get the discount. also use the basic penny pinching principles during shopping to save money... usually i end up with a dime cheaper in fuel costs.. it may not be much, maybe a buck in savings over the course of a full tank, but, a buck is a buck.

Oh man your gonna be IN for it... Liberty Point is very very aggressive at chasing Auto Deficiency Paper... First thing first.. Start getting all your wagons in a Row.. 1. Get the VIN number of the vehicle you had repo'ed... Car Fax the vehicle and find out its Auction date. Go over EVERYTHING in the paperwork that you should have gotten after the repo... look for ANYTHING out of place (like a sale that happened before the date given in notice of disposition) if anything is NOT kosher, they legally HAVE to go away. good luck getting them to tho without legal leverage... also if they ask for "proof" of an illegal repo DO NOT send them anything, by law they have the burden of proof... they WILL violate FDCPA tho trying to collect this, they did for me anyways.. so be ready... and stay OFF the phone... 2. Request that Liberty Point sends you copies of a Notice of Right to Cure Default (if required in your state), A Notice of Disposition of Collateral letter, A Notice of Collateral Sale outlining payoff amount at time of repo, all fees related to the repo, storage, sales prep, and sale of the car and showing how they reached the deficiency amount. and any other paperwork that would be required post repo by UCC law and your state laws. If they do NOT send you this, then the repo is considered Illegal and the Debt legally does NOT exist. 3. In my case they couldnt provide these documents, so the fact they were trying to collect were FDCPA violations along with FCRA violations since they were reporting on my credit reports.. I fought tooth and nail to get them to go away, i finally had to complain to the Arizona AG to get them to go away, along with threaten to sue... They SUCK... A former Liberty Point Victim.

tell them you no speaka engrish that dont work... my last dunning letter had it written in english on one side, and spanish on the other ...

ALot of it is going to depend on your actual situation... the reason i behind my ideas was that was the most logical way to fix the problem at the time. a little background so you might compare your situation to mine to make a more informed decision. in my case i had a loan on a car that was upside down from the time i signed at the dealer, i was upside down about 6000 bucks the day i bought it (back when i was young and had no idea what i was doing). Well about 6 months in to the loan life gets in the way the way it just loves to do and making the minimum payment wasnt an option so i paid what i could.. I never heard anything from them about this being negative so i figured it was no big deal (this was in 2000)... life turns around and im making regular ontime payments again until Feb of 2003 comes along... i get a notice of right to cure default letter in the mail... i thought ok what the hell is the deal, i been making payments as far as i can recently remember.. so i call em.. they tell me the loan is 3 payments behind, but in the records on the ladie's computer i was talking to she was seeing payment history as in good standing for as far back as it would let her look. She couldnt find the default either... anyway they do an audit on the account and find my partial payments from the first year of the loan and with the missed part of the payment plus accured interest, it equaled 3 payments... well ok... this is nice to know. 2 years later... anyway ok fine im 3 payments behind, i wanna keep the car, get back on track and fix it... i struggled to make the minimum as it was but could pay a little extra on what payments i had left (year and a half to go on the loan) or have them defer the 3 payments at the end... (hey i figure they make a little more interest, i keep the car, they get paid, everyones happy), but i was told they wouldnt accept that, i needed to pay the delinquent balance NOW. well that wasnt an option so i did a voluntary repo, told them they were getting the car back and they werent getting another dime from me. and i basically left the car in front of the door to the bank with the back bumper about 2 inches from the glass, locked the keys inside, took my plates and left it. I did this on the first of May... now fast forward to the end of june, they call wanting their deficiency... they never sent any letters they were supposed to after they got possesion of thier intent to sell, etc. (like they are supposed to), i told em to pound sand that i wasnt paying, and they could eat the thing for all i cared... this went on for about a month or so, then i didnt hear anything at all until Mar of 2005 when a JDB bought the deficiency balance and started trying to "strong arm" me in to paying it. This is when i started looking in to all the laws regarding repos in my state and what they all had to do and what they couldnt do... compared it with my situation and realized they screwed up after i gave it back by not following my state laws and UCC laws during and after the sale of the car.. I ended up having to complain to my states AG and the AG of the JDB, and i had to threaten a FDCPA and FCRA lawsuit against the JDB and OC, but they both dropped the issue and deleted the repo from my reports within a couple months after i started fighting them using the laws. THis is why i suggested a repo as opposed to the bankrupcy, both suck i know, but the repo is easier to get rid of than a BK, IMHO, because as i found out during my research, the left hand dont know what the right is doing and mistakes are made during the process that create fatal flaws in their case for a deficiency and thier ability to report the repo on your credit legally. the important thing to remember is look at all of your available options and choose the one thats going to be the easiest to recover from and does the least amount of damage. Good Luck, i hope whatever path you choose works out the way you want it to.

dont file bankrupcy.. if you have to, give them back the car, but DONT sign anything.. note the date that you lost possession of the vehicle and keep it in a safe place. Also, Keep an eye on your mailbox for a few specific letters afterwards that you have to be sent. one is a notice of disposition of collateral, that tells you they have possession, that they intend to sell it, when and where they will sell it, etc. they have to send you this by law. After the sale, they have to notify that the vehicle sold, how much it sold for, what the payoff was at the time of the sale, along with any repo/storage fee's, etc. and document all costs in to the deficiency balance. If they fail to send any of these papers, the repo is illegal, and depending on the state you live in, a deficiency balance may be denied by law. Also.. Check to see if you live in whats called a "Right To Cure" state. If you live in one of these, they HAVE to send you a right to cure default letter XX number of days before they can legally repo it. which gives you a chance to cure the default as if the default did not occur. Once everything is done and over with.. Get copies of the repo information on the vehicle from your country treasurer or DMV. you want to make sure all the info sent to you is accurate. if anything is NOT correct, the REPO is illegal and no deficiency balance is owed. Read up on your states laws regarding Repossessions, Retail Installment Sales Contracts/Agreements, Motor Vehicle Installment Contracts/Agreements and responsibilities required by the leinholder during a repossession/disposition. Make sure to find out if they followed all laws... VERY RARELY do repo's ever get done completely correctly, and if ANYTHING is out of place, you can use it as leverage to not only have the deficiency dismissed, but to remove the entire repo from your credit, and to get any collection activity related to it to stop. BUT.. you have to bring up the deal, they aint gonna automatically give up unless you press it... Good Luck...

sounds like they definately screwed up... Check your state's vehicle repo laws very carefully, as well as Article 9 of the U.C.C. They Speficifically state what guidelines must be followed.. Remember, if any part of the repossession or resulting disposition arent performed specifically as required by law, the repossession/disposition is illegal, not only are they denied a deficiency balance, but you may also be able to sue them for damages. Im not 100% sure but, i remember reading somewhere that deficiency judgements on automobile loans are prohibited by law in california.. try looking here, under repo information. http://whychat.5u.com very good source of info.. it bailed me out of a mess that i was in post repo. Good Luck.

I won't ever pay a JDB... because the original creditor no longer OWNS the debt in question meaning i no longer have the option of paying THEM. I will not pay up to 50% more than the original balance to ANYONE that paid 3¢ for each dollar of debt, ESPECIALLY after the Original Creditor has sold it off and written the loss off on thier taxes. me paying or not paying no longer affects the company i originally had the debt with at all, and at this point they dont care if i pay or not.. I'll never pay a CA either after a debt has been assigned to them. If the debt is legitamate, i'll pay it to the outfit i originally opened the account with.. if they dont accept payment directly, i consider the debt PAID in full.

i fought em for about a year before i figured out what i was doing and started doing the right things... after i used this tactic on Liberty point, they caved in about 2 weeks.. from when i sent my first letter. my case was dealing with an auto repo deficiency which i have heard is real hard to get rid of sometimes. im not quite sure how to read PM's... still pretty new to the site myself.. i lurked around here for about a month before i started throwing punches...

remember, its not a threat, its a promise.. if they dont make it 'right' your gonna hold thier (well you get the idea) to the fire and make em scream.. your just giving them a LAST chance to correct the problem before you correct it FOR them... <hint hint> as far as worrying about a countersuite for threats.. dont worry bout that, as long as you have a valid case its not a threat.. besides, last thing asset wants to do is go to court, especially if you are contesting them at all, it costs them money (lots of it) if this does end up in court... the only way they are likely to pursue you in court for anything is if you dont do anything at all... that shows them you aint going to contest it and your hiding from it.. which to them is an avantage because they can hit you with a Default (since you dont show up)... this is real cheap for them and guarantees them the money... if you contest, that just made any profit of thiers if they ARE able to collect just take a BIG dive... by the time they pay their lawyer and legal fees (check with your state to see how attorneys fees are handled). your goal here is to make them go away, if they decide not to go away your plan then is to make it very expensive for them to collect... its normal to be scared.. hell i was scared too.. but i was more pissed at them then scared so i didnt give in... i grabbed on to em and just bared down with both jaws until they cried and ran. Good Luck.. you can do it... just remember patience is the key and this is a your move, their move game.. its kinda fun... especially when ya know you got em over a barrel..