2 years into HAMP and still nothing

[alkemyst]

I have been trying to work with Citi since mid 2009 and now NationStar since late 2010, I purchased late 2007 when the story was the bottom had been hit. I did a conventional loan.

 

NationStar denied my HAMP finally in February after sending paperwork back and forth and phone calls 1-2x a week since 2009, because they are now including my non-purchasing spouse's income and I just barely hit the current loan payment. They told me in early February they approved me for an internal modification and I'd have the paperwork in a week. As of today it's just left processing. two weeks ago they started foreclosure proceedings and have an attorney involved now. I have always made the payments they told me to do and did so on time. I have no equity and now with this foreclosure action my little bit of credit left is going away. Previously they pushed me to 24.99% APR's but at least I had emergency funds...this past week I recieved letters that two of my cards with decent credit limits (~$15k each) were closed due to delinquency. I am sure the rest will follow.

 

My roof needs repair and the air conditioning is dying. A/C runs $250+ a month and it won't cool below 79. I can't afford the electric nor the repair.

 

The main problems are the house is only worth $90k on a $270k loan and the only sales at $90-100k have had a pool included which I don't have. The neighborhood has no HOA so people are buying and renting to literally 6+ people at a time for about $500 a pop. I was recently burglarized along with my neighbor and totally cleaned out...even furniture. I have since bought a home security system but we just don't feel safe anymore. I took the entire insurance claim and used it to pay off a majority of my college debt ($32k) and just did without my stuff. I figured it would show good faith to my new servicer that I was trying to help my situation. I should have just bailed and used it as a down payment on a new place prior to them destroying my excellent credit (700ish with 20 year tradelines)

 

I am not sure what to do. Many are telling me to have my wife buy a home and/or let this one just go. Now not only am i looking at $270k in loan balance, but now a $20k add-on for past due fees + 'maybe $20-30k from the attorney WE had to hire'. It's going to be a $325k loan on a $90k house.

 

I am not sure if I should now go back to the original mortgage company as in reality they should never have qualified me on this loan. They assured me I could 'afford' it...I can't. It was a $2300 payment and my gross income was $4100 with about almost $1000 in credit/loans from college.

 

I feel like I am trying to screw someone in getting out of my home, but at the same time I am really getting it everyday...people come on my property, my alarm has been set off and I have had to pay fines, stuff gets broken, tire tracks on my lawn...phone calls and letters everyday, having to pay my mortgage in cash to a western union or money gram location....it's just too much.

[cinderella]

I think some of what you say is a little padded and skewed and not fair.

 

OK. You took 32K from an insurance settlement and paid off your student loans. But come on, this wasn't done for your lenders benefit. You wrote:

I took the entire insurance claim and used it to pay off a majority of my college debt ($32k) and just did without my stuff. I figured it would show good faith to my new servicer that I was trying to help my situation. I should have just bailed and used it as a down payment on a new place

 

You paid off what? A $1000 month credit obligation that you could probably never escape by bk'ing the creditor, Student Loans/the Feds. Please. The servicer could give a rats if you paid off your student loans - there is zero financial benefit to them, but it benefited you. Why turn this into a negative thing and twist it around saying how hard you worked for a possible mod and even went in so far as to pay f32K in student loans for the servicer to acknowledge your good choices?

 

Regardless of if you receive a mod or not, you now are free and clear of a debt, 32K you would never escape. This is a good thing.

 

Secondly, your servicer did not destroy your credit. They didn't. Being delinquent is a requirement, EVERYONE WILL HAVE THEIR CREDIT DAMAGED. EVERYONE. When you contact your lender for a federal hardship program, and send in the paperwork including a hardship affidavit, you are telling because of my income, I WILL Default on my mortgage.

 

When financial destruction hits, i.e. you lose your job - your spouse dies - you are diagnosed with cancer and are moved to disability making 1/2 of your regular income, there is no such thing as being procative. When financial destruction hits....(you get hit a car and end up a paraplegic, you go into work and are laid off, you bury your spouse) you are always reactive. When a person tells their lender they have a hardship, credit is forgone, most people that have a financial hit, are in a reactive situations. And if you check their credit, defaults can often be seen across the board on the credit reports.......(credit cards, utilities in collection, auto payments late or repossesed).

 

They should have told you your credit will be trashed, but anyone that signs a hardship affidavit and contacts their lender for a hardship program is telling their lenders I will default on my mortgage w/o help, and if it is true, credit is or will be trashed in the very near months.

 

I think you should move past this:

I am not sure if I should now go back to the original mortgage company as in reality they should never have qualified me on this loan. They assured me I could 'afford' it...I can't. It was a $2300 payment and my gross income was $4100 with about almost $1000 in credit/loans from college

 

Yeah, they probably shouldn't have given you and thousands of other loans. But they did. And you agreed to it. If you weren't upside down now or had massive equity, this would be a non-issue.

 

The main problems are the house is only worth $90k on a $270k loan

 

Of course it is. I've seen thousands of mod requests. Thousands. And thousands. Many who don't qualify or have often have no issue with income (there are people with a lot of revovling debtt and installment loans - cars etc. which are huge issue but a loan won't be modified to finance one's credit cards or car payments) are underwater and that is the issue. A bad investment, buying at the top is not a hardship. Being a surviving spouse with three mouths to feed and losing 60% of your spouse's income leaving you unable to pay the mortgage (forget credit cards, they'll never get a dime!) is a hardship. I've looked at the numbers in detail. It is incredibly common to have underwater homeowners applying for mods on hardship requests.

 

What if they do foreclose? You live in a crappy neighborhood, you said you were robbed, you've said before how much you hate where you live. You've been posting for well over a year on being underwater. WOuld it really be so bad?

 

Move on with your life. Being significantly underwater is making you miserable. Your freed from 32K in debt from student loans that you now don't have to worry about and live in a crappy neighborhood you don't feel safe in. Work on your credit, be thankful you and your wife have jobs in Florida - because it is miserable economy down there right now and jobs are hard to come by - and do a SS/DIL or worse case f/c.

 

Your servicer is not a miracle worker. They can't bypass federal guidelines and restore your credit, they can't take a loan down from $270K to your opinion of market value - $90K and that isn't what modifications are about -the intent of mod is not to restore value to a homeowner significantly underwater.

 

Your lucky. You have jobs in a crappy economy - just paid off your student loans, and your wife is a non-obligor spouse - which means you can walk and probably buy in her name.

[alkemyst]

I think some of what you say is a little padded and skewed and not fair.

 

OK. You took 32K from an insurance settlement and paid off your student loans. But come on, this wasn't done for your lenders benefit.

 

You paid off what? A $1000 month credit obligation that you could probably never escape by bk'ing the creditor, Student Loans/the Feds. Please. The servicer could give a rats if you paid off your student loans - there is zero financial benefit to them, but it benefited you. Why turn this into a negative thing and twist it around saying how hard you worked for a possible mod and even went in so far as to pay f32K in student loans for the servicer to acknowledge your good choices?

 

wow..a bit angry or something? First my total debt was around $70k. The actual FEDERAL school loans about $26k and 3.25% interest...those I was not talking about.

 

I was in a good position for a B/K...due to Citi destroying my credit after telling me there would be no affect on it, my interest payments alone went from about $250 a month to close to $900. By injecting that insurance money into the debt and then working out the rest on a few lines that didn't get rate bumped and a $7k personal loan in someone elses name for me I stemmed that bleeding they caused.

 

DTI is a big part of the mod formula. In reality, with $70k in debt and $4100 in income per month I should never have qualified for a $2300 mortgage payment. That's a separate issue though to why this has taken 2 years.

 

Regardless of if you receive a mod or not, you now are free and clear of a debt, 32K you would never escape. This is a good thing.

 

Secondly, your servicer did not destroy your credit. They didn't. Being delinquent is a requirement, EVERYONE WILL HAVE THEIR CREDIT DAMAGED. EVERYONE. When you contact your lender for a federal hardship program, and send in the paperwork including a hardship affidavit, you are telling because of my income, I WILL Default on my mortgage.

 

That was not how it was presented to me when I started this. I wanted a 5% mortgage rate vs the 6.875% I had. Citi told me no problem and then had me make two new payments at the lower rate. This was the method they used to put me behind. I had told them I didn't want a program that would affect my credit, I was looking for a pure rate modification. My servicer damaged my credit. I am not sure where you get I'd never escape my debt though.

 

Yeah, they probably shouldn't have given you and thousands of other loans. But they did. And you agreed to it. If you weren't upside down now or had massive equity, this would be a non-issue.

 

why do you say that? I'd have to sell the home even if I had equity.

 

Of course it is. I've seen thousands of mod requests. Thousands. And thousands. Many who don't qualify or have often have no issue with income (there are people with a lot of revovling debtt and installment loans - cars etc. which are huge issue but a loan won't be modified to finance one's credit cards or car payments) are underwater and that is the issue. A bad investment, buying at the top is not a hardship. Being a surviving spouse with three mouths to feed and losing 60% of your spouse's income leaving you unable to pay the mortgage (forget credit cards, they'll never get a dime!) is a hardship. I've looked at the numbers in detail. It is incredibly common to have underwater homeowners applying for mods on hardship requests.

 

so it's obvious you are on the lender's side of things...they put food on your table. I bought at the end of 2007...when prices had fallen a lot and it was reported the 'bubble' had burst.

 

Are you a single mom or crippled or something? You keep mentioning that death of a spouse and some kind of accident being the only real reasons for a hardship?!?!?

 

What if they do foreclose? You live in a crappy neighborhood, you said you were robbed, you've said before how much you hate where you live. You've been posting for well over a year on being underwater. WOuld it really be so bad?

 

Move on with your life. Being significantly underwater is making you miserable. Your freed from 32K in debt from student loans that you now don't have to worry about and live in a crappy neighborhood you don't feel safe in. Work on your credit, be thankful you and your wife have jobs in Florida - because it is miserable economy down there right now and jobs are hard to come by - and do a SS/DIL or worse case f/c.

 

Not only was I robbed but my neighbor, his neighbor and as of the 16th the person across the street. This month alone in this small town there were 8 burglaries...it's off the chart.

 

I didn't know posting over a year here was a bad thing? I guess you know it all or something?

 

I am not miserable though, it's a financial matter. You do indeed sound miserable though, venomous...perhaps you should work on yourself first.

 

In the last call with the servicer I was told they owned my home and could do what they want, even change my locks. I have no idea why they are playing this game, but apparently me doing what they ask me to do each month is not getting anywhere.

 

I have met with legal counsel now and they will formulate a plan to get this resolved. Especially in Florida our courts are growing tired of homeowners being screwed with.

 

Your servicer is not a miracle worker. They can't bypass federal guidelines and restore your credit, they can't take a loan down from $270K to your opinion of market value - $90K and that isn't what modifications are about -the intent of mod is not to restore value to a homeowner significantly underwater.

 

Your lucky. You have jobs in a crappy economy - just paid off your student loans, and your wife is a non-obligor spouse - which means you can walk and probably buy in her name.

 

Market value is not 'my opinion', I sat with a realtor to project a selling price. This past week a similar house to mind listed at $100k was sold for $76k. The intent of the modification is to get a more managable payment plan and also tame some of that upside down issue.

 

My 'school loans' are not paid off. I still owe $26k on them and have about another $17k in credit card debt. You are trying to paint this picture I am rolling in dough and want to gain more by duping the bank.

Edited April 3, 2011 by alkemyst

[cinderella]

DTI is a big part of the mod formula. In reality, with $70k in debt and $4100 in income per month I should never have qualified for a $2300 mortgage payment. That's a separate issue though to why this has taken 2 years

 

No. That is materially wrong.Anyone reading here would be doing themselves a huge diservice to rely on this.

 

DTI as you are referring to has absolutetly nothing to do with HAMP and most internal mods.

 

Your servicer could care less if your front/back end DTI is 1000000%. It is your HTI that matters. The only time DTI is relevant under HAMP is if you > 55%. Then you will receive a letter required by HAMP to attend HUD counseling to manage debts.

 

A HAMP modification is never done to support one's revolving and installment loans, including s/l's, car payments, cc debt. Ever. These are not even considered except for govermental tracking purposed and to determine if a homeowner that has been approved will be sent a HUD CC ltr.

 

 

That was not how it was presented to me when I started this. I wanted a 5% mortgage rate vs the 6.875% I had. Citi told me no problem and then had me make two new payments at the lower rate. This was the method they used to put me behind. I had told them I didn't want a program that would affect my credit, I was looking for a pure rate modification.

 

So what if you told them you wanted 5%. If I write my servicer and ask them to buy me a mansion in the bahamas, does that mean I am right and they failed me?

 

What is a pure rate modification? No such thing exists under HAMP, you made up something you told your servicer you wanted to happen and then are upset with your servicer? Your servicer has to follow HAMP. They don't get a pass to make things up and augment the program. HAMP's are non-negotiable. Period. There is prescribed formula and guidelines that MUST BE FOLLOWED. Any deviation from this, would place the servicer in big trouble with the federal government and the investor/owner of that note.

 

Now servicer might be inept, possibly incompetent at the onset and for sometime after HAMP. But in now do they any ability to deviate. Files are audited by the feds heavily. I've seen VP's and underwriters fired after goverment audits for mistakes to guidelines. It was not deliberate, but a mistake that came across on an audit. People were given mods that should not have been by the guidelines.

 

Being behind is part of the program. Yes, it will effect your credit! Hardships, people that will be f/c on w/o a HAMP, credit is often foregone.

 

If you don't agree with it, write a politician or the government. BUt don't expect your servicer to lie or bypass federal guidelines that would result in employees being terminated for your benefit.

 

No such program exists - a pure rate mod where the homeowner applies for federal hardship program stating they will go into default w/o it hurting their credit. This isn't your servicers fault, it is just an unrealist expectation on your end.

 

Are you a single mom or crippled or something? You keep mentioning that death of a spouse and some kind of accident being the only real reasons for a hardship?!?!?

 

What if I was a single mom or "crippled or something." DO you have an issue with that? Do you have something against "single moms" or the "crippled."

 

I don't have a problem with them like you. When I see a recent single parent (male or female) or yes, someone that has survived a brutal year of chemo and is a cancer survivor or someone that was involved in a car accident that left them "crippled" or spouse that just left their spouse.......AND these folks have had their incomes significantly reduced and well above the 31% HTI's.....yes, I like to go out of my way for them. When foreclosure is nearly guaranteed because of these types of situations, I would hope a very competent person is reviewing every detail of that file to see every possibilty is exhausted to approved a HAMP that enable someone in these situations to keep their homes. I would say many "crippled" and single moms (dads too) are in their homes today because of work I've done.

 

BUt no, to answer your question, I am neither a "crippled" or single mom.

 

I am not miserable though, it's a financial matter. You do indeed sound miserable though, venomous...perhaps you should work on yourself first.

 

No, I am not miserable. I am not the one that bought in 2007. I sold my primary residence in 2007, do a search on me in GC and you will find my posts about it. Currently the home I sold sells for about 300K less than I sold. I also sold 2 other homes before 2007.

 

Hopefully, I can buy again in 2012 or 2013 when I believe a bottom will form.

 

I think you mistook what I said about being unhappy in your home and lashed out. I don't understand if someone feels unsafe in their home as you stated in the past, and also is so upside down, why keep it? I wouldn't live where I feel unsafe, and if it so happend I got stuck holding the bag in bursted bubble, being severely underwater would only be more reason to strategic default.