Firemen ignore burning house over unpaid fee

[Jen23514]

See, this is where I get a little miffed. If that department is funded through sales tax and stuff, they ARE paying for it. If they life just outside the town, they must shop there and therefor paying sales tax and stuff. Why is there a secondary fee? There are so many loopholes and areas of grey that the $75 fee seems like a petty risk for the FD. I dunno

 

Maybe you should actually try and be involved in your local city council to glean a little knowledge here young grasshopper. Sales tax, etc goes to specific purposes and allocations - and none of the ST allocations in the city I reside in are for emergency services. Each municipal is different, depending on the codes/charter of the city. Part of a local sales tax is also for county and state allocations which a municipal has no control over.

 

Why is there a secondary fee? Because that is how that county does it. There's nothing "grey" or loophole-ish about this. It's a simple equation:

 

paying $75 = fire protection (Choice A = consequence Z)

 

not paying $75 = watching your house burn (Choice B = consequence Y)

 

Choice B does not equal consequence X (RoShamBo of deciding whether to put out the fire (or not) based on if the residents spending habits at the local market, gas station, and walmart).

 

How is this a risk to the FD? If anything based on the litigious nature of our country, I would venture to guess there would be more liability to the FD if they risked their lives and equipment to put out a fire that they were not authorized to do so.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Jen23514

[random42]

I understand there is no expectation of service without pay.

 

But as human beings to stand there and watch someone's house burn down over $75, when they have the absolute means to stop it, is incomprehensible to me. $75 effing dollars.

 

Would you risk YOUR house and belongings to save this families? THAT's the choice. The city politicians made the call, and everyone obeyed their boss down the line, because we're sitting at 20% unemployment in a double (triple?) dip recession, and you just don't disagree with your boss in this work environment unless they are breaking the law. I sure wouldn't throw away my entire career and get my family turned out on the street due to unemployment, over THE POSSESSIONS of some salamander who refused to fork over a measly $75.

 

They should have invested that $75 in more extinguishers anyway.

 

Bringing life or death scenarios into this is fallacious. No one has made the argument that people should be left to die. Therefore arguing against that is a classic Straw Man fallacy.

[orangecrush]

 

Would you risk YOUR house and belongings to save this families? THAT's the choice. The city politicians made the call, and everyone obeyed their boss down the line, because we're sitting at 20% unemployment in a double (triple?) dip recession, and you just don't disagree with your boss in this work environment unless they are breaking the law. I sure wouldn't throw away my entire career and get my family turned out on the street due to unemployment, over THE POSSESSIONS of some salamander who refused to fork over a measly $75.

 

They should have invested that $75 in more extinguishers anyway.

 

Bringing life or death scenarios into this is fallacious. No one has made the argument that people should be left to die. Therefore arguing against that is a classic Straw Man fallacy.

 

You are really sexy, when you spit hot fire.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

Maybe they need a reform so all the people who do pay can pay for everyone else's, too. FIRE CONTROL FOR ALL!

 

Too thin? I'm sorry.

[Jen23514]

They should have invested that $75 in more extinguishers anyway.

 

 

[Snork Maiden]

Special assessments yes, but those really aren't an option, now are they?

 

Why are you arguing this? Is it cause you think people are too stupid and need to have these decisions made for them?

[Bad Doctor Frost]

Special assessments yes, but those really aren't an option, now are they?

 

Why are you arguing this? Is it cause you think people are too stupid and need to have these decisions made for them?

Do you want me to answer that? Probably not.

[Snork Maiden]

 

Would you risk YOUR house

 

You are really sexy, when you spit hot fire.

 

You cheating skank..

[Echo_X]

Mm... So.. The fire chief got his flowers handed to him... Good... Frankly he is lucky that the man didnt pull out a gun and shoot him, or better yet, take his head off its shoulders by a fire axe, as would have been more suitable in the situation.

 

Or perhaps had a bucket of petrol thrown on him and set ablaze, i wonder if he would remember to "stop drop and roll"...

 

All I am saying is there is a special place in hell for people who sit by and twiddle their thumbs while they watch someone lose everything they own, simply because they don't HAVE to do something. This situation is not failure to perform your duties. It was a failure to be human beings. If the firemen had proceeded to IGNORE orders and extinguish the blaze anyway, and been in any way penalized for it, this fire chief's head would be mounted on a pike in the center of town by the local media. They could have helped, they just happened to be shaven apes wearing fireman outfits.

 

Further, it serves the public interest to extinguish any blaze before it can spread. That is why we have fire departments, to keep CITIES from catching fire, like they had a habit of doing in by gone eras...

[orangecrush]

Mm... So.. The fire chief got his flowers handed to him... Good... Frankly he is lucky that the man didnt pull out a gun and shoot him, or better yet, take his head off its shoulders by a fire axe, as would have been more suitable in the situation.

 

 

 

Actually, the guy who hit is more likely to get his flowers handed to him. He facing jail time.

 

 

Further, it serves the public interest to extinguish any blaze before it can spread. That is why we have fire departments, to keep CITIES from catching fire, like they had a habit of doing in by gone eras...

 

That CITY does have a fire department. The county does not.

Edited October 4, 2010 by orangecrush

[Bad Doctor Frost]

For all the threads I've seen in here about human decency and people just "walking past and not doing anything," I'm surprised people here are OK with this. Wasn't there one where a person was on the street dying or something and no one did anything? This is the same thing to me. Sure, it's just things, but I like things. Everyone complains about how crappy humans have become and all that, well..hello?

 

I'm feeling feisty today...

[Jen23514]

For all the threads I've seen in here about human decency and people just "walking past and not doing anything," I'm surprised people here are OK with this. Wasn't there one where a person was on the street dying or something and no one did anything? This is the same thing to me. Sure, it's just things, but I like things. Everyone complains about how crappy humans have become and all that, well..hello?

 

I'm feeling feisty today...

 

I think it's already been brought up that life was not in danger here, so you're comparing apples and poop.

[Fallon]

i'm sorry but there should not be a "fee" for basic services like polie/fire safety.

Normally, in an incorporated area, these fees still exist, they're just called "taxes".

[Fallon]

Mm... So.. The fire chief got his flowers handed to him... Good... Frankly he is lucky that the man didnt pull out a gun and shoot him, or better yet, take his head off its shoulders by a fire axe, as would have been more suitable in the situation.

 

Or perhaps had a bucket of petrol thrown on him and set ablaze, i wonder if he would remember to "stop drop and roll"...

 

All I am saying is there is a special place in hell for people who sit by and twiddle their thumbs while they watch someone lose everything they own, simply because they don't HAVE to do something. This situation is not failure to perform your duties. It was a failure to be human beings. If the firemen had proceeded to IGNORE orders and extinguish the blaze anyway, and been in any way penalized for it, this fire chief's head would be mounted on a pike in the center of town by the local media. They could have helped, they just happened to be shaven apes wearing fireman outfits.

 

Further, it serves the public interest to extinguish any blaze before it can spread. That is why we have fire departments, to keep CITIES from catching fire, like they had a habit of doing in by gone eras...

I disagree. They put this one out, and they can kiss their $75's goodbye from every other rural homeowner. In which case, no one would have fire protection.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Fallon

[Bad Doctor Frost]

For all the threads I've seen in here about human decency and people just "walking past and not doing anything," I'm surprised people here are OK with this. Wasn't there one where a person was on the street dying or something and no one did anything? This is the same thing to me. Sure, it's just things, but I like things. Everyone complains about how crappy humans have become and all that, well..hello?

 

I'm feeling feisty today...

 

I think it's already been brought up that life was not in danger here, so you're comparing apples and poop.

 

I tend to value my things over most human lives so...

 

 

And apples turn into poop so...yeah. Just sayin..

[orangecrush]

For all the threads I've seen in here about human decency and people just "walking past and not doing anything," I'm surprised people here are OK with this. Wasn't there one where a person was on the street dying or something and no one did anything? This is the same thing to me. Sure, it's just things, but I like things. Everyone complains about how crappy humans have become and all that, well..hello?

 

I'm feeling feisty today...

 

Yeah and many of us would have only called 911 if we saw someone who needed help or was dying. They did call 911 and the people who paid for the service, got help.

[blackberry74]

For all the threads I've seen in here about human decency and people just "walking past and not doing anything," I'm surprised people here are OK with this. Wasn't there one where a person was on the street dying or something and no one did anything? This is the same thing to me. Sure, it's just things, but I like things. Everyone complains about how crappy humans have become and all that, well..hello?

 

I'm feeling feisty today...

 

You're also feeling wrong today. Somebody paying a fee in advance to have the services of firefighters available to them is not even remotely close to people walking by after somebody gets shanked or beaten in the streets.

Edited October 4, 2010 by blackberry74

[Tigz]

I think the only way that there would be a lawsuit is if there were someone trapped in the premises and the FD did nothing to help get them out.

 

The only other way I could see a lawsuit is IF property tax is what is used to pay for emergency services, AND the millage is the same county wide (ie, city and county.....many places the property tax is assessed by the county, not the city) with no extra fees/charges for the city.....Then yes, I could see a lawsuit (regardless if the "city" owns the fire department - if county funds pay for it then the service should be countywide).

 

Since I don't know how the taxes are applied for this particular city/county, I can't really venture to guess.

[orangecrush]

 

 

You're also feeling wrong today. Somebody paying a fee in advance to have the services of firefighters available to them is not even remotely close to people walking by after somebody gets shanked or beaten in the streets.

 

That's a normal state of being for him, so he would not notice, unless someone told him.

[Fallon]

As for the likelihood of insurance denying a claim for their not paying the fee, it's doubtful. They're probably already rated as a class 10 (no fire protection). As my dad used to say, a firetruck responding to a class 10 property didn't need to bother bringing water. All they'd have to bring were scoop shovels and push brooms.

[orangecrush]

I think the only way that there would be a lawsuit is if there were someone trapped in the premises and the FD did nothing to help get them out.

 

The only other way I could see a lawsuit is IF property tax is what is used to pay for emergency services, AND the millage is the same county wide (ie, city and county.....many places the property tax is assessed by the county, not the city) with no extra fees/charges for the city.....Then yes, I could see a lawsuit (regardless if the "city" owns the fire department - if county funds pay for it then the service should be countywide).

 

Since I don't know how the taxes are applied for this particular city/county, I can't really venture to guess.

 

 

I think the city residents pay an assessment or tax for the fire department. I may be crazy, but I think I read that.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

I'm trying to grasp the idea of pay-fire-service. Must be a royal po-dunk. *Google* Population 2515. Yep. I'm done.

[blackberry74]

I'm trying to grasp the idea of pay-fire-service. Must be a royal po-dunk. *Google* Population 2515. Yep. I'm done.

Ah...we can only hope.

 

As for podunk...don't you live - ? Never mind.

[Bad Doctor Frost]

I think the only way that there would be a lawsuit is if there were someone trapped in the premises and the FD did nothing to help get them out.

 

The only other way I could see a lawsuit is IF property tax is what is used to pay for emergency services, AND the millage is the same county wide (ie, city and county.....many places the property tax is assessed by the county, not the city) with no extra fees/charges for the city.....Then yes, I could see a lawsuit (regardless if the "city" owns the fire department - if county funds pay for it then the service should be countywide).

 

Since I don't know how the taxes are applied for this particular city/county, I can't really venture to guess.

 

 

I think the city residents pay an assessment or tax for the fire department. I may be crazy, but I think I read that.

 

The tone of doubt proves it.

[Tigz]

I think the only way that there would be a lawsuit is if there were someone trapped in the premises and the FD did nothing to help get them out.

 

The only other way I could see a lawsuit is IF property tax is what is used to pay for emergency services, AND the millage is the same county wide (ie, city and county.....many places the property tax is assessed by the county, not the city) with no extra fees/charges for the city.....Then yes, I could see a lawsuit (regardless if the "city" owns the fire department - if county funds pay for it then the service should be countywide).

 

Since I don't know how the taxes are applied for this particular city/county, I can't really venture to guess.

 

 

I think the city residents pay an assessment or tax for the fire department. I may be crazy, but I think I read that.

 

Ahhh, OK. That would make sense. So the residents of the city are also paying the fee...it is just called something else.

 

However, I do see one issue, For IRS purposes (for those that do the long form), since I presume it is lumped in with the property taxes, a resident would be able to write it off on their taxes, whereas those rural people will not as it is a "fee". But that is an altogether different subject.

 

Carry on.