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texasmorrell

What is the diff between "verify" and "validate"?

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I wanna try and answer this

 

 

Verify is what Cra does with debts that are reported to them. They verify the info with people who post the info. The CRA asks for Name SS # and addy. If the CA or OC provides 2 of 3 asked,the info stays on your report. If 1 or none is given,the CRA deletes the info

 

Validate is when you ask the CA to actually prove you owe the money they are claiming you owe.For proper validation you need a bit more info. A CA need to prove they are licensed or bonded in your state<depends on your state laws>.They need to proof they have the authority to collect the debt and they have to prove/show they have something in writing when you agreed to pay the debt.

 

You as the consumer can ask for either process to be done

 

 

Im new to this board so may info may be off but I know someone far more learned than I will correct me if I misspoke

Edited by newagespidey

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So CAs have to validate then? This means what exactly? Provide written documents proving you owe the debt and the amount? Or just say they called such and such and were told it was correct, end of story?

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So CAs have to validate then? This means what exactly? Provide written documents proving you owe the debt and the amount? Or just say they called such and such and were told it was correct, end of story?

 

 

Look in the Letter forum of the board and look at some one the sample validation letter and you will get an idea of exact what is needed

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A CA would have to validate, yes. This would include anything to prove you owe the debt (signed contract, etc), a full accounting (past statements, etc), proof they can collect on the debt as well.

 

Verifying could also be done with the OC

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So do you actually have to ask in your letter for documentation and proof of license and bond and such or is it implied when you simply ask for verification I mean validation no wait verification I think?

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Like newagespidey suggested, in the sample letter forum, there's a simple debt validation letter. Once you see it, I think it will become more clear to you.

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From this thread in the index and starting point thread, in both the newbie's and sample letters forum: http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3802

 

Q1. Validation is done by the CRA's and that is the action that should occur upon receipt of your mailed or online dispute, correct?

No., that is verification per the FCRA.

 

The FCRA applies to CRA's and information furnishers.

 

Information furnishers can be both OC's and CA's

 

Validation is the FDCPA and what debt collectors/CA's must do.

 

Q2. Validation technically is supposed to have the CRA do more than just make a call to the OC/CA and have a clerk read some info back off a screen or file, correct?

Validation is a specific section of the FDCPA applicable to debt collectors, 3rd party, section 809. It requires a specifically worded notice to consumers, "disputing the validity" of an alleged debt requires validation, which is proof of the debt and the person being dunned.

 

Verification = FCRA = disputing options for information that is not accurate and complete, updated and verifiable. You can dispute directly with the CRA's reporting the information and/or directly with the furnisher of the information to the CRA's for reporting.

 

Q3. If the CRA reports back (to the consumer) that an item is validated, then the next step is to verify the info, correct?

No.

 

Q4. Verification is done directly with the OC/CA? Or is done via the CRA by way of follow up letter requesting details, copies of notes, signed forms, etc.?

No. OC's don't have to provide you anything. CA's have to provide validation or cease collection activity until it is provided.

 

Verification is done directly BY the CRA's.

 

Verification is provided by information furnishers (which can be BOTH OC's and CA's) to the CRA's but for which individual's also have a private right of action.

 

Validation is done by CA's/3rd party collectors and provided to consumers.

 

Q5. Why bother with validation at all? Why not proceed directly with the verification process? I think I know the answer to this one, but I am interested to hear anyway.

You bother with validation because it establishes what you owe and who it is owed to as well as what records the debt collector's have, if any. If they don't have the records, or can't obtain them, then validation can't be accomplished. Once it is requested, collection activity must cease until it is provided.

 

Q6. Any functional difference between an online dispute and a CRRR letter?

Mostly no., if depends on the CRA's format and your diligence in printing.

 

I am also a little bit confused as to whom the onus lies for carrying out a proper verification. Must the CRA do so if clearly asked by the consumer? Or does the consumer have to deal directly with the OC/CA ?

 

CRA's are responsible for verification and for following "reasonable procedures to ensure maximum possible accuracy" in the information they report.

 

Information furnishers have a responsibility to both the CRA's and consumers.

 

The CRA must do so if requested by the consumer AND the OC/CA must do so if requested by the consumer. The FCRA allows for both. However, the latter doesn't have to provide the verification to the consumer as an information furnisher. Only the validation process requires documentation be provided to the consumer directly.

 

Concise clarification appreciated.

Well, that's a challenge indeed.

 

Nice to meet you, Jim!

 

Sassy

 

Sorry, no way around the homework, and in the order that I think will be most useful for an overall understanding:

 

FTC, FCRA, Summary of consumer rights: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/2summary.htm

 

FTC, FCRA, Summary of furnisher of Information's responsibilities: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/2furnshr.htm

 

FCRA, Dispute resolution, a summary of the overall process: http://mixsix.com/credit/ Applicable to CRA's and Information Furnishers to the (which can be both OC's and CA's)

 

FDCPA, Debt validation, a summary of the overall process: http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/de...alidation.shtml

Applicable to debt collectors, 3rd party only

 

FCRA, statutes: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra.htm

Be sure to note the PURPOSE

 

FDCPA, statutes: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

Be sure to note the PURPOSE

 

FCRA FTC Staff Opinion letters: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/

 

FDCPA FTC Staff Opinion letters: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters.htm

 

FDCPA FTC Staff Commentary: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/commentary.htm

 

And:

 

It's a manner and order of disputing and validating, the combination, that forces a 30-day time frame and violation potentials.

 

VALIDATING first, instead of disputing first is the key to forcing the timeframes.

 

You should only DISPUTE first if you've a lot of negatives and they are old, and you've not done any work on your reports. That is only to get as many deletions as possible upfront.

 

The only time, I think, DISPUTING before CA validating or an OC verification, should be done, is initially. You should always force the time constraints, it only helps you.

 

Seems to me lately, mostly people just dispute, dispute and dispute again, endlessly -- disappointing that is.

 

While endless disputing may eventually be effective and it certainly is the easiest, disputing alone isn't what this board is about. That is what the CRO's do -- no rocket science there, just dispute every 30 days and save yourself whatever the monthly charges are for those services (Lexington and the like).

 

1. Send validation letter, when green card is returned, dispute with the CRA's.

 

Disputing with the CRA's forces a 30-day time frame.

 

The CA can't verify with the CRA before mailing validation to you without being in violation.

 

The TL has to be marked as disputed.

 

2a. If the CA doesn't respond send some version of an estoppel.

2b. If the CRA verifies, send a procedural request.

 

Depending on what happens next and what your goals are, there are endless options after that.

 

Mostly there is 3 steps, the 2 above, a followup, and a final letter drawing the boundary line AND then following through.

 

Your best bet, I say, is pursuing the CRA's if your goal is clean reports and to stay out of court.

 

But, better too, to hold those fully responsible that are, that's the furnishers of information.

 

Maybe one day all of the above will be willing to do their jobs -- they don't and that is what works -- MAKE THEM DO WHAT IS REQUIRED OF THEM. No secret there.

 

The don't like the rules and they won't play by the rules unless you are going to force them -- they are counting on intimidating you and you not having the stamina and endurance to follow-up. Everyone starts out believing you just have to find a contact with a functioning brain cell, that is reasonable and surely will do what is required and what you've requested. NO, there isn't. They LIE first and ALWAYS.

 

Read the FCRA and FDCPA -- know what the requirements are and settle for nothing less. There's NOTHING shady going on, nor any magic, they refuse to do what is required of them, create a papertrail that shows the same.

 

Should they ever decide to do what is required of them and their businesses, we'd not be here -- THAT is what it is all about.

 

Important too, the FCRA and FDCPA does NOT apply to consumers, nor is reporting to anyone mandatory (save Freddie and Fannie to Innovis).

 

The CRA's are NOT a part of the government and they have no authority -- they'd like for us to believe it is the opposite; that's a farce and just what they would like to happen -- step by step, they try at every turn.

 

The feds passed the FCRA and FDCPA to address THEIR businesses because they do their chosen jobs badly.

 

Do what you are supposed to do to address erroneous reporting. Have a SOLID papertrail (that is paper with proof of delivery). Knowing they don't follow the rules, don't allow them to attack your papertrail, it's not worth the chance, unless you want to start over again. The papertrail is what works and following the steps though.

 

Sassy

 

Clarifying: Under the new FACTA amendments to the FCRA, Furnishers do have to respond to consumers and within the same time frames as the CRA's would. However, like everything under FCRA section 623(a), the failure not to isn't enforceable by a consumer. A consumer would have to pursue the violation under 623(B), failure to conduct a reasonable investigation and continuing to report inaccurate information. See the Johnson v MBNA case in the consumer protection forum for what the courts have determined verification requires by the Furnisher.

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:offtopic: I'm still working on my pepsi, thanks though, those are old posts cut and pasted for your reading pleasure.

 

I cheated, shhhhhhhhh

 

Sassy

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Don't forget that Texans have the Texas Finance Code to aid in this area also. It has real teeth and coupled with the DTPA can make some issues go away. Of course, it is not 100% but Walter has a great thread on Texas that explains how these State laws can help a resident Texan with collections. I encourage people from Texas to look it up as I do not know how to link it in this thread.

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What other information are you looking for bird? The thread is almost three years old.... why the bump?

 

 

-R

 

Racer, I am looking for every bit of useful info I can find. I personally am working on my last few bodies and I can use this info. I was reading a few threads this morning and noticed that others may be able to use this too. I found that 8 times out of 10 the questions I have may have been answered before. I bumped this one, but there are many that I have not bumped because they were old. I couldn't resist this time. :rofl: There is another thread that I read at least once a week that others could benefit from (OC furnishers of info), but it is in the sample letter forum. I would have bumped it instead of this one if it was in this forum. I hope I didn't tick you or too many other people off for bumping this.

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I hope I didn't tick you or too many other people off for bumping this.

 

Not at all. I just didn't know if there was further information you were looking for as it appeared all points were covered. :rofl:

 

I just wanted to make sure you got the answers you were looking for if you needed further help. :rofl:

 

 

-R

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I hope I didn't tick you or too many other people off for bumping this.

 

Not at all. I just didn't know if there was further information you were looking for as it appeared all points were covered. :blink:

 

I just wanted to make sure you got the answers you were looking for if you needed further help. :lol:

 

 

-R

 

:rofl:

 

(i thought I was in the hot seat. I'll put a disclaimer like bump because this is good info or something next time..he he.)

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I wanna try and answer this

 

 

Verify is what Cra does with debts that are reported to them. They verify the info with people who post the info. The CRA asks for Name SS # and addy. If the CA or OC provides 2 of 3 asked,the info stays on your report. If 1 or none is given,the CRA deletes the info

 

Validate is when you ask the CA to actually prove you owe the money they are claiming you owe.For proper validation you need a bit more info. A CA need to prove they are licensed or bonded in your state<depends on your state laws>.They need to proof they have the authority to collect the debt and they have to prove/show they have something in writing when you agreed to pay the debt.

 

You as the consumer can ask for either process to be done

 

 

Im new to this board so may info may be off but I know someone far more learned than I will correct me if I misspoke

 

 

Seeing that this thread is almost 3 years old, do the rules for VERIFICATION still apply and if so are all 3 CRA's still following those rules (NAME, SS# and ADDY)?

Edited by Atien

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Sorry to restart an old thread, but this was linked to a good newbie consolidation thread.

Here's my newbie question. If a CA has to validate by not only showing assignnment/sale of debt, but a proof of the debt somehow, how come in its verification an OC doesn't have to prove the debt (as indicated on this thread)? Anybody can SAY I owe them money and give my vitals (although I am busy now trying to delete old addresses).

 

Anybody have an answer?

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