Strategerizing my next steps - CLIs?

[supern8ural]

So I'm back at it again...  here's what's happened since the last update.  My landlady wants me out of my house - not in a negative way, she just wants to renovate it presumably to rent it at a higher rate.  She actually offered me to move to another property of hers which is 9 miles away from my office and I might just do that.  I'd really wanted to buy my own place however before moving again; had interest rates stayed sane I'd be already looking.  However I've had a conversation with a realtor a friend recommended and her mortgage broker and they seem to think that this is possible for me now.  I'm not sure how, but anyway...

 

as a result I've paid for a one time report from MyFICO and here we are

 

FICO 8: Equifax 732, TU 721, Experian 726

 

Mortgage:

     FICO 5, 4, & 2: Equifax 748, TU 730, Experian 765

 

Auto Loan:

 

     Auto Score 8: Equifax 740, TU 734, Experian 729

     Auto Score 9: Eq 776, TU 768, Exp 760

     Auto 5, 4, & 2: Eq 762, TU 743, Exp 751

 

Credit Cards:

     Bankcard 8: Eq 730, TU 748, Exp 740

     FICO 9: Eq 776, TU 769, Exp 756

     Bankcard 9: Eq 765, TU 762, Exp 745

     Bankcard 7, 5, & 2: Eq 757, TU 739, Exp 759

     FICO 3: Exp 699

 

New Versions:

     FICO 10: Eq 765, TU 767, Exp 731

     FICO 10T: Eq 759, TU 763, Exp 704

     Auto Score 10: Eq 781, TU 785, Exp 749

     Bankcard 10: Eq 761, TU 770, Exp 739

 

SO.  this looks better than I thought, but what worries me is that my scores differ sometimes significantly between Equifax and TU.  They ought to have exactly the same data; the only differences in the reports I'm aware of all have to do with Experian (Experian got hard pulls from 4 card apps last year whereas Equifax and TU only got one from Capital One.  An Affirm loan that I took for a cell phone purchase only reports to Experian.  Those are the only differences that I'm aware of, so I'll have to dig into this)  When I check with Credit Karma, my Equifax and TU VS3.0 are always identical, or Equifax lags a change but will return to being identical to TU once it catches up, so I really don't understand this.

 

I'm still not sure if I want to try to dive into home moanership right now; I think if I did I would probably try to rent a room as soon as I got the place livable as that is the only way I could be financially comfortable.  Will talk to realtor about this possibility later.

 

As I've mentioned before, the only real neg on my report is a 90DL with date of first delinquency January 2018 so it'll fall off this coming January hopefully.

 

Any advice as to what to do in my situation, other than scrutinize my reports carefully and try to figure out why TU is reporting generally lower than the other two?

Edited May 7, 2024 by supern8ural

[supern8ural]

so I'm scrollin, scrollin, scrollin... still not seeing what's different between Equifax and TU EXCEPT I did see one item - the time since most recent late payment is listed as 6y 2mo for Equifax and Experian but 6y 5mo for TU.  I've heard tell of people requesting early removal from the various bureaus, but I neglected to save the info.

 

How early is too early to request this?  And could I maybe make this work in my favor by getting it removed from TU early?  (if it's 6y 5mo now, in another month it'll only be 6 mo early, is my thought process...)

 

I also don't understand that in "Payment History" Equifax and TU are listed as "Good" but Experian is listed as "Very Good" - is that simply because I have more reported accounts with Experian?

[supern8ural]

A thought: would taking on a utility bill help my credit any?  I haven't had any cable, water, gas, etc. in my own name in well over a decade.

[Glacier]

Is there a mid score you are targeting?  The broker I was using, a midscore of 740 received the lowest rates.   I've heard some programs give a better rate for a 760, so maybe you are targeting that?  

 

As for the late payments, are the accounts still open?  If so, I think you just have to wait until they drop, as if you dispute as obsolete, the entire account may drop, and there may be other consequences.  

[supern8ural]

29 minutes ago, Glacier said:

Is there a mid score you are targeting?  The broker I was using, a midscore of 740 received the lowest rates.   I've heard some programs give a better rate for a 760, so maybe you are targeting that?  [/quote]

 

Really I'm just trying to get "as good as possible".  I realize anything over 760 is gravy, but with today's interest rates, everything helps.  Doesn't help that where I live, basically the lower end of the price range of actually insurable, livable housing is a budget stretch for me, or else sets me up for an hour plus commute.  (well, my CURRENT commute is creeping up to an hour going home, and it's only 20 miles from my office, but I digress.)

 

29 minutes ago, Glacier said:

As for the late payments, are the accounts still open?  If so, I think you just have to wait until they drop, as if you dispute as obsolete, the entire account may drop, and there may be other consequences.  

 

No, it was one account and it was closed in March 2018.  Without going into excruciating detail, what happened was I had a balance on the card, did not pay it off in full, but stopped using it and was making automatic slightly-over-minimum payments without looking at it.  SiriusXM charged an auto renewal in January 2018 of which I was unaware (at this point I never even used the service anymore, had basically only kept it through several different retention offers) and while I made payments on the card in Jan, Feb, and Mar they were now below the minimum payment so Citi considered them late.  Account went 90DL and was closed before I even noticed.  Before you ask, how could you not notice, at the time I was dealing with a lot of stuff, not the least that my girlfriend at the time had lost her job and also was having to undergo several neurosurgeries, while I was trying to both be supportive and hold down a full time job so we wouldn't be homeless.  (that was successful, thanks for asking, but yeah my stress level was a little elevated for pretty much the duration of that relationship)

 

I know that is going to reduce my AAoA when it falls off (it was my oldest account, off the top of my head 2004 or thereabouts - in actuality I opened it in the early-mid 90s, but due to wanting to take advantage of a 0%BT I closed it and opened another at the recommendation of a phone representative, in retrospect not good advice, but not much I can do about it now) but I'm assuming the removal of the 90DL will offset the score hit from removing the account altogether, yes?

Edited May 7, 2024 by supern8ural

[Glacier]

So, the account that was closed in March 2018, could falling off in September 2024.  Some bureaus allow for "obsolete disputes" up to 6 months early.  Do a search on this board and you should find some threads discussing this.   At this time, I would not expect a huge increase, as it may not be impacting as much as you may think, due to its age.  And, yes perhaps since this is your oldest account, losing the age may offset.  I think it may depend on just how old is your next oldest account. 

No judgements on not noticing things from my view, trust me, I know how life gets in they way of life at times.  

[supern8ural]

I guess I'm getting more confused the more I research.  It looks like I could ask for an "early exclusion" but what I'm not clear on is when the account as a whole disappears, is it when the derogs do or 10 years from closure?

 

I have pretty much decided that I am not buying a house this year so waiting until early 2025 doesn't really hurt me, much as I would like to see the derogs just go away.

 

- if they fall off naturally does the account disappear or does it still contribute to AAoA for another three years?

- if I ask for early exclusion and it is granted, does the account then disappear or no?

 

In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't matter in a huge way, but if I can make one decision that's better than the other, I'd prefer to do that.  Lord knows I haven't always done that in my life...

[ShawnPY1972]

6 hours ago, Glacier said:

So, the account that was closed in March 2018, could falling off in September 2024.  Some bureaus allow for "obsolete disputes" up to 6 months early.  Do a search on this board and you should find some threads discussing this.   At this time, I would not expect a huge increase, as it may not be impacting as much as you may think, due to its age.  And, yes perhaps since this is your oldest account, losing the age may offset.  I think it may depend on just how old is your next oldest account. 

No judgements on not noticing things from my view, trust me, I know how life gets in they way of life at times.  

 

Derogatory credit such as charge off's or late payments fall off 7 years from the date it first went past due and not from when the account closed.

 

Taxes is seven years from the date paid and I think that student loans is the same.

[supern8ural]

I guess what I'm trying to figure is will the account still contribute to AAoA after the derogs fall off, and does it make any difference whether I ask for early exclusion or not?

 

I know there's the possibility of goodwill letters as well and I may try those again just for shiggles.

 

In an ideal world I would really like to keep the contribution to AAoA for another three years if it is possible, as this was my oldest account before it was closed.

[Glacier]

Your experience may be different.  However, in my experience, if an account went late, and was never brought current before the account was closed, the account dropped "around" the 7 year mark from when it first went delinquent.   Also in my experience, if an account went current, but was brought current before it was closed, the late payments dropped "around" the 7 year mark, and the account remained on my report until "around" the 10 year mark from closure.  

[supern8ural]

1 hour ago, Glacier said:

Your experience may be different.  However, in my experience, if an account went late, and was never brought current before the account was closed, the account dropped "around" the 7 year mark from when it first went delinquent.   Also in my experience, if an account went current (I assume you mean late), but was brought current before it was closed, the late payments dropped "around" the 7 year mark, and the account remained on my report until "around" the 10 year mark from closure.  

 

yeah that's kind of what I was getting at.  If I could have those extra 3 years of the account contributing to my AAoA that would be helpful.  In my case the account went late, and I brought it current, but it was only current after I found out it was closed (but within a month)

 

I guess what I really wanted to know was if I asked for early exclusion would that make it more likely to disappear completely at 7 years or is there a chance it'd continue on?

[Glacier]

If the account was close before it was brought current, my guess is (not an expert by any stretch), the account will drop in total at around the 7 year mark.   

[supern8ural]

Back to the top...

 

Got two CLIs this morning as I posted in the CLI thread and when I got home from out of town I checked my CK account and my Equifax VS3.0 was suspiciously higher

 

pulled a report from annualcreditreport.com and sure enough the 90DL is gone!  I thought it would fall off in Jan. 2024 but I am NOT complaining at all!

 

my scores are a little low because of a 0%BT I did but next month I'm guessing all three FICO scores will be >760 between the 90DL falling off and three CLIs.

 

You guys have no idea how huge this is for me.  I had two cards and *Admin and our Terms of Service prohibit profanity* credit a year and a half ago and thanks to you and other knowledgeable people online I've been doing all the right things while waiting for that 90DL to go away.  And I was just talking to a friend's realtor the other day too...

[supern8ural]

MyFICO hadn't updated yesterday but I got a notification while eating lunch, my Experian FICO 8 went up 58 points to 761, and that's with a 4 month old card and higher utilization than normal (2 cards reporting at 90+ because they are low limit and I was deliberately maxing them), plus a 0%BT reporting on one card but $2k that I've paid off hasn't reported yet on another card, stuff like that) and there are three CLIs that I don't think have reported yet (Citi Double Cash, Discover, and CFU all got CLIs this month)

 

Experian is sitting at 750, I'm guessing that one's lower because that's the one Citi pulled for the Double Cash and now the other two have no hard pulls less than a year old.

 

Basically, life is good!

 

I'm gonna have to talk to loan guy tomorrow and see if he wants me to optimize now or if he thinks it really doesn't matter.

[shifter]

3 hours ago, supern8ural said:

2 cards reporting at 90+ because they are low limit and I was deliberately maxing them

Maxing cards is fine to try to get a CLI, but there's no advantage and only potential problems caused by letting that report. Always pay it down before the statement cuts. 

[supern8ural]

On 5/15/2024 at 2:05 PM, supern8ural said:

I guess what I'm trying to figure is will the account still contribute to AAoA after the derogs fall off, and does it make any difference whether I ask for early exclusion or not?

 

I know there's the possibility of goodwill letters as well and I may try those again just for shiggles.

 

In an ideal world I would really like to keep the contribution to AAoA for another three years if it is possible, as this was my oldest account before it was closed.

 

FWIW it appears that I still have the account reporting but not the lates.

[supern8ural]

38 minutes ago, shifter said:

Maxing cards is fine to try to get a CLI, but there's no advantage and only potential problems caused by letting that report. Always pay it down before the statement cuts. 

 

I thought there were some that liked to see it actually hit the statement?

 

And yes, I do know that you can't assume that any issuer will be OK with cycling, I'm not doing that.

[supern8ural]

So 760 is when you get the best rates right?  Check this out...  And I'm still not fully optimized.  Logged onto Experian this AM and my FICO 8 is 761.  Today is a good day!

[supern8ural]

Well guys, I did it - with your help of course.

 

My latest three CLIs have now all reported, derogs have dropped off all three bureaus, and with just organic spend, no optimization (so two cards almost maxed, my two Citi cards sitting at $1K CL) my FICO 8s are...

 

Eq 768, TU 760, Exp 761

 

my 5/4/2, which is of more concern to me is

 

Eq 756, TU 757, Exp 763

 

I'm going to have to see what the differences are between the reports because theoretically TU and Eq should be identical and Exp should be a tick lower because of a <1yr old hard pull.

 

What this tells me is what I needed to know, which is that with optimization I can likely get my 5/4/2 over 760 which means that yeah, I'm actually back in the game as a real, creditworthy adult again.

 

Over the last year and a half I've been watching my scores like a hawk; I optimized once in February to try to get big CLIs, and sort of as a side hobby have been playing the cash back game, seeing it as a personal failing if I don't get at least 2% on every purchase

 

Anyway I thought I would share this because it feels great.  It seems crazy that I was still in debt two years ago and couldn't even get a CLI on my oldest card and now my CL on that card alone is $10k higher than it was back then.

Edited December 20, 2024 by supern8ural

[supern8ural]

So Equifax is reporting a Citi Diamond Preferred as a separate card from the Citi Costco Anywhere Visa that I PC'd it to a few months ago, with the last report obviously 8/2024.  Should I dispute this?  I'm not sure if it's helping or hurting.  It's probably dragging my AAoA down but otherwise it's good?

 

If the myFICO simulator is to be believed, if I get my utilization down (it's currently ~8% thanks to a 0%BT) I might actually break the 800 barrier...?  I'm paying it off slowly, about $500 a month, so I can keep investing.

Edited December 20, 2024 by supern8ural

[supern8ural]

Also playing with the simulator it looks like Experian is going to be lower than the other two if I pay off my 0%BT the only reason I can see is that one HP?  Basically simulator says my FICO 8 will be 803 Eq, 805 TU, 786 Exp if I pay off $4250 in CC balance.  Does that sound right?

 

I *am* looking forward to being in the 800 club...  hell I'm just tickled to be out of the 690-710 range finally.

[supern8ural]

I've been thinking about this and I just got my quarterly bonus today.  I think I am going to pay my two Citi cards early; one is going to report in a week or so, and probably continue to let them report low/zero for a few months.  I'm guessing going from 90%+ utilization on two cards to <10% will help.  We'll see.  These cards both have $1000 CLs and I can't request CLIs because one got one last month and the other the month before.  I've been hitting them hard because a) they're useful and b) obviously I want more CLIs.  Then I have to decide if I want to pay my 0%BT off early - next month is a three paycheck month so I can at least afford to get that card below 10% as well.  Everything else is PIF every month.

 

My head says stick to the plan and invest especially since the market took a dive the last two days (and I got some VOOV while prices were low!) but I also at least want to get my scores >760 so I can seriously think about house shopping.  I have a couple weeks as nobody's going to want to be showing houses over the holidays, but I'm getting real sick of renting.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention - with the three recent CLIs (the other was from $22k to $25k on my CFU) my TCL is now $92.6k...  just for the nice round number I was going to try to hit $100k by the end of the year but I think all of my cards besides my BoA ($32,600) and Savor ($15,500) I have got a CLI within the last two months so it's not gonna happen.  Last time I requested from Capital One I was at $14,500 and they only bumped me to $15,500.  BUT I'm gonna try again before the end of the month, what's the worst that's going to happen?   You think I should try with BoA or just leave it alone?  I hardly use that card (Customized Cash Rewards, my 3% category is set to "home improvement stores" because that's the one I'm not covered on by anything else) and >$30k is really more than I see myself needing... but I don't think I've ever asked for a CLI on that one, I've had it for ages and always got them automatically.

Edited December 20, 2024 by supern8ural

[hdporter]

VS 3 is a POS score.  It's of no consequence and best ignored.  (VS 4 might more closely mirror FICO 8, but only a couple of lenders use it for limited lending decisions.)

 

The credit game, by far, belongs to FICO.

[supern8ural]

OK, this is a follow up to "I think I'm going to pay my Citi cards off early".  Experian FICO 8 is up 10 pts. to 771 with only one of the maxed cards zeroed, I'm going to zero my BoA card as well as it only has something like $30 on it as well as the other Citi card which was maxed last report.  I'm hoping this will get me where I need to be mortgage rate wise.

 

I did the Costco card already, and I learned some stuff.  Cut 'n' pasted from r/CreditCards.

 

--Part One (Last Monday)

 

Noticed something interesting this week (well, you may find it interesting if you're deliberately reading this sub)

I got a quarterly bonus on Friday and realized that one of my Citi cards was going to report today, so I paid it to zero - I'd been maxing it out to try to stimulate CLIs but now I'm shifting my focus to optimizing my scores as I am going to be investigating the possibility of buying a house in the new year.

Typically what I do is I schedule a payment from my checking account for the last payday before my due date (on cards with a decent CL) or the first payday or even maybe the first day after the statement generates (for low limit cards like this one that I need to pay off to be able to use them). I've looked back and those payments have all posted as on the Friday they pushed and my memory says that they actually showed as pending on Friday and freed up my available credit immediately and changed to posted on Monday.

Because I was pretty sure I was getting a bonus but couldn't 100% count on it, I didn't have a payment scheduled for last Friday but when I realized it was sufficient to have my card report as zero balance but I needed to pay it right away as today (Monday) was the statement date. If I'd set it up through my bank on Friday to push the payment, it wouldn't have gone through until today, so I couldn't say whether it'd make it before the statement generated or not. So, I set up with Citi to pull the payment from my checking account instead, and while it zeroed my balance immediately, the negative amount didn't hit my checking account until this morning and I still don't have any available credit (it is reflecting what the available credit was before making the payment.)

This is the second time I've noticed that pushing a payment from my checking account is far better than pulling it, the other being my Barclays HYSA - when I push, the funds are there the next business day whereas if I pull it may take several days.

 

--Part Two (Last Thursday)

 

I'm starting to become concerned. It is now Thursday morning and I still have no available credit. Is Citi going to close another card on me? I have never had a late payment or cycled, card has been open about a year and a half. I have posted multiple statements with 90+% utilization in an attempt to stimulate CLIs.

I made another payment this time pushing from my checking account on Tuesday the 24th. I had it set up to pay $500 the day after the statement (monday) and forgot to cancel it. So now I have a -$500 balance but no available credit. I'm hoping this is just weird because yesterday was a holiday but I'm becoming concerned. I certainly am not going to be able to use my full CL this month when I've lost a whole week of spend.

 

--Part Three (Last Friday)

 

So I called, and apparently it was held up for several reasons:

1. because I pulled from my checking account instead of pushing, which I'd never done before (even though it's the same account I've been paying from, and in fact was the same account I'd been paying Citi from in general since 2001? I think?) it was considered a "new account" and as such they were going to hold the funds for a full 7 business days. It was "credited" to my balance but not my available credit - that was the whole issue, I have a silly low limit so I don't have that three weeks of float to pay it like you'd think I would; I would have paid it anyway normally the day after the statement cut for this reason (my usual procedure with my two Citi cards)

2. because of the holidays that would have pushed the availability of credit out until January 2nd

3. BUT because I called Citi they verified with my bank that the payment had in fact cleared on Monday the 23rd.

The balance did report on the statement also on the 23rd as $0.00 so that goal was achieved; it showed up on Experian on the 26th and my FICO score went up 10 points which was the whole point of the exercise. I'm going to do the same thing with my other Citi card and see where I'm at then. I am, however, not going to pull the money this time - the only reason I did it that way was I realized when I woke up that I had in fact received a bonus (which I couldn't have counted on, because, you know, it's a bonus) and it hit my bank account on Friday but my card statement was cutting Monday, so even if I scheduled a payment immediately it likely wouldn't have been credited until after the statement cut.

So it was a combination of factors, I'm posting back because I didn't realize the "new account" 7 day thing. Web site says "up to" 7 days but I didn't think they'd hold it that long as SOP.

I just logged out and logged back in and I now have my full credit limit back, so all's well that ends well, but I learned some stuff today and if you've read this far, so did you.

I'm more relieved now because I pissed Citi off a little over 7 years ago and really am trying to get back in with them. The bad thing is the card I messed up on would be over 20 years old today, and I'd had a different card with them for 10 years before, all over inattention... lessons.

 

--Additional comments (not previously posted)

 

While the $500 payment was posted and I now show a negative balance, my available credit is still only $1000.  I'm going to keep an eye on it but I think they may be holding it there to keep me from cycling.  Fair enough, I didn't plan on it because I wanna be a good boy and do things right.  My current balance is now ~$460ish as I got gas the other day and some other small things.

 

I will, of course, post back if my guess is incorrect.

[supern8ural]

Holy crap y'all.  It's been about a year and a half of playing games with my credit and I'm finally optimizing to see where I'm at.  I'm not done but I just paid off one of my low limit cards and it just posted a statement at $34 (was trying to do zero but I messed up).  I'm not even AZEO or close to it as my Discover card won't report for a couple weeks.

 

My Experian FICO 8 this morning is *792*.

 

This is real.  I was low 700s when I started.

 

I just had to share because yeah I know what you are going to say, "of course, because you did the right things" but it hits hard when you actually see it live.