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Should I app now with Amex and Chase?


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7 hours ago, CTSoxFan said:

 

Call the recon line and ask them to take another look.  Nothing to lose.  Be prepared to talk through anything/everything on your CR, why you had issues in the past and why they won't happen again.  888-270-2127

 

Also, as others mentioned, dump credit one ASAP.  You don't need to pay ~$100 per year for the privilege of carrying around that piece of crap.

You're awesome! Thanks!

 

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Amex APPROVED!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!!

After 15 months, I finally got my scores into the 700's:   Experian 735  Equifax 733  Transunion 725   I settled for the less than the full amount a few years ago with Am

Thanks for the very encouraging words @cv91915. I'm going to call again today to see if I can still make it happen.   If it doesn't work, I'll wait 6 months and reapp. 

Posted (edited)

@CTSoxFan I called the recon line that you provided and they reviewed my application again. The rep told me I was declined for the following reasons. 

 

  1. Recent delinquency and/or bankruptcy - I have no bankruptcy and the recent delinquency is from my old charge off account.
  2. Charge off account. I only have one that is 5.5 years old. 
  3. Too much available credit. I only have about $7,300.
  4. Not long enough established credit. I have accounts that are 16 years old. 

I then proceeded to plead my case and told her the absolute truth. That I was on my death bed in 2015 causing my business to shut down, my wife lost her job, and we had our first born all within a 4 month span. I told her that I settled with my all my creditors expect the 1 which is the charge off (5.5 years old). I told her that Amex just gave me $9,500 credit card just days ago. I told her the only reason why my credit declined was because of this life threatening event. I have had perfect payment history since I have had my credit cards now for 3.5 years now and that my scores moved from 584 on 4/20 to 735 right now. I expressed to her that I don't care if they grant me just $500. What's important to me is reestablishing my credit with Chase and gaining trust once again. 

 

She sounded like she wanted to give me the credit card and I thought I was going to get it but she said the charge offs are what is knocking me out the box. 

 

I asked when I should reapply and said, "Anytime you'd like". 

 

Should I call back and perhaps talk to someone else or should I just give it time and reapply in months to come? 

Edited by maverick9
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Sorry for the decline.  I'd be patient for six months and try again.  If you'd reached someone who didn't seem to project any empathy, I'd say try again now.

 

Nice job on the recon.  The first one or two recon calls can be unnerving, but as you can see, the phones are answered by humans, and humans by nature want to help if they can.

 

Onward and upward.

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10 hours ago, cv91915 said:

Sorry for the decline.  I'd be patient for six months and try again.  If you'd reached someone who didn't seem to project any empathy, I'd say try again now.

 

Nice job on the recon.  The first one or two recon calls can be unnerving, but as you can see, the phones are answered by humans, and humans by nature want to help if they can.

 

Onward and upward.

Thanks for the very encouraging words @cv91915. I'm going to call again today to see if I can still make it happen.

 

If it doesn't work, I'll wait 6 months and reapp. 

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My gut impression is that there are a couple of things to still be fleshed out here to get a stronger handle on the situation and what may have played into the denial you received.  (FWIW, on the surface, given what details you have spelled out, I wouldn't be very inclined to encourage a second recon on the denial ... although it's very much a "no harm, no foul" situation.)

 

Let me note that if I've overlooked details in this thread, please excuse my ignorance in what I post.  I'm running with a 3-year old's attention span, given what's on my plate in the moment.  In any case, let me touch on a possibility that niggles me most in this thread (I may follow up with additional feedback) ...

 

If you applied for a Chase card with a strong sign up bonus (SUB), such as Chase Sapphire Preferred's current 100k point offering, you have to anticipate that your application is going to be run through a tougher sieve than if you're applying for a card with a $100 SUB

 

If I recall correctly, it's not been ages since you settled on another Chase card, shorting them $200.  While your current credit scores point to strong recent credit performance, Chase might be expected to think twice before putting forward a $1200 value bonus without having established a longer track record.  In your shoes, I might have restricted my application to something that front's only a limited value incentive as my first salvo in getting back in with Chase.  (But, mind you, this reflects only are own subjective biases.)

 

 

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6 hours ago, hdporter said:

My gut impression is that there are a couple of things to still be fleshed out here to get a stronger handle on the situation and what may have played into the denial you received.  (FWIW, on the surface, given what details you have spelled out, I wouldn't be very inclined to encourage a second recon on the denial ... although it's very much a "no harm, no foul" situation.)

 

Let me note that if I've overlooked details in this thread, please excuse my ignorance in what I post.  I'm running with a 3-year old's attention span, given what's on my plate in the moment.  In any case, let me touch on a possibility that niggles me most in this thread (I may follow up with additional feedback) ...

 

If you applied for a Chase card with a strong sign up bonus (SUB), such as Chase Sapphire Preferred's current 100k point offering, you have to anticipate that your application is going to be run through a tougher sieve than if you're applying for a card with a $100 SUB

 

If I recall correctly, it's not been ages since you settled on another Chase card, shorting them $200.  While your current credit scores point to strong recent credit performance, Chase might be expected to think twice before putting forward a $1200 value bonus without having established a longer track record.  In your shoes, I might have restricted my application to something that front's only a limited value incentive as my first salvo in getting back in with Chase.  (But, mind you, this reflects only are own subjective biases.)

 

 

Thank you so much for your input.

 

I applied for the Chase Freedom Unlimited. 

 

So you're saying to wait a few months to reapply instead of going in for a 2nd recon now?

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5 hours ago, maverick9 said:

Thank you so much for your input.

 

I applied for the Chase Freedom Unlimited. 

 

So you're saying to wait a few months to reapply instead of going in for a 2nd recon now?

 

That information helps; I'd say that at your point in "rebuilding" this was a reasonable card to apply for.  And, yes, I think it likely that Chase just needs a little longer positive history on your recently acquired card(s) to feel comfortable welcoming you back into the fold.

 

That said, @cv91915 is reasonably steering you in a helpful direction by suggestion you might try a 2nd recon call.  Truth is, I do expect that you're on the cusp of approval, where the right CSR might tip things in your favor. 

 

If I understand correctly, you have no recent derogatory info newer than 4 years ago.  However, at that time you burned Chase for a modest $200.  While almost inconsequential, Chase won't gloss over it entirely.  And, you've opened 4 accounts in the last 2 years, which is on the threshold of their 5/24 cap; something else that they won't gloss entirely over as well.  I suspect it's the combo of these two facts that makes them hesitant to approve you now.

 

My advice (just a gut feel, no science) is to wait until you drop to 3/24 and app again.  If you're game, you can also go for a 2nd recon now, but I'd keep it short and simple rather than doing a hard sell.  This card will wait and it seems like you've got a lot of fairly new plastic to put some mileage on already :)

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4 hours ago, hdporter said:

 

That information helps; I'd say that at your point in "rebuilding" this was a reasonable card to apply for.  And, yes, I think it likely that Chase just needs a little longer positive history on your recently acquired card(s) to feel comfortable welcoming you back into the fold.

 

That said, @cv91915 is reasonably steering you in a helpful direction by suggestion you might try a 2nd recon call.  Truth is, I do expect that you're on the cusp of approval, where the right CSR might tip things in your favor. 

 

If I understand correctly, you have no recent derogatory info newer than 4 years ago.  However, at that time you burned Chase for a modest $200.  While almost inconsequential, Chase won't gloss over it entirely.  And, you've opened 4 accounts in the last 2 years, which is on the threshold of their 5/24 cap; something else that they won't gloss entirely over as well.  I suspect it's the combo of these two facts that makes them hesitant to approve you now.

 

My advice (just a gut feel, no science) is to wait until you drop to 3/24 and app again.  If you're game, you can also go for a 2nd recon now, but I'd keep it short and simple rather than doing a hard sell.  This card will wait and it seems like you've got a lot of fairly new plastic to put some mileage on already :)

Gotcha.

 

I opened 4 cards, have perfect payment history on all of them, and  1keep utilization under 5%:

 

Amex7/21

Discover CC 5/20

Capital One CC - 6/20

NFCU cashRewards CC 7/20

 

I did open a NFCU pledge loan on  6/20 but I don't think this counts as it's not a credit card right? 

 

I just got off the phone with Chase for a 2nd recon and they declined me because of recent charge offs (I have 1 that 5.5 years old, too much credit ($7,300 is too much credit?!, and high balances (my balances are $5.). Though my scores are in the 700's, they said, "We are not a credit score lender. We look at the entire file). 

 

So there you have it. 

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6 hours ago, maverick9 said:

I just got off the phone with Chase for a 2nd recon and they declined me because of recent charge offs (I have 1 that 5.5 years old, too much credit ($7,300 is too much credit?!, and high balances (my balances are $5.). Though my scores are in the 700's, they said, "We are not a credit score lender. We look at the entire file). 

 

 

 

Don't take it to heart too much.  And understand that NO LENDER will tell you precisely why you were declined because, for some customers (they're greater nightmares) to do so is an open invitation to then beginning arguing specifics.

 

As a consequence, when pressed for specifics on a denial, a lender will cite a litany comprised of anything that might be deemed the least "negative" ... they particularly like to cite facts that you can't refute.

 

For example, "You have $7300 in open credit, and we think that's a little too high".  What the hell are you going to counter that with?  Whereas, on the other hand, if they say, "You stiffed us for $200, you don't have a lot of credit experience since then, and for the time we're adhering to the adage 'once bitten, twice shy' ", there's room for you to discuss that the amount is relatively immaterial, that your credit experience isn't as thin as they suggest, and that there's every reason for them to trust that you're good for your debt given the good faith you've demonstrated to other creditors, ...

 

Do you get the gist of what I'm trying to convey here?  It's for this reason that a recon call is not about discussing the reasoning for decline whatsoever.  Instead, the real intent is to soft pedal your way into an assessment that you take your debts seriously, intend to handle them responsibly, and are a good prospect as a profitable client going forward (all in soft terms that depend much more on being amiable and persuasive in a casual fashion, then being persuasive in terms of hard facts).

 

------------

 

At heart, recons are a crap shoot.  Sometimes you simply don't roll a seven on come out roll and proceed to crap out on the next.  Chalk it up to bad luck and move on.

 

Deciding when to reply involves a lot guess work.  Because the reps won't volunteer precise reasons for your denial, you can only rely upon informed guesswork.  Typically, only time will cure a lot of the reasons for the decline.  When I was rebuilding, I waited for 24 months of absolutely clean history, which happened to bring my FICO's to 680 (and, at that time, 2004, that was the threshold most issuers were generally happy with).  (fwiw, I had no unpaid charge offs or settlements, and the 90+ bad stuff was 4+ years old).

 

In your case, I single out your 4/24 status.  One thing that's near engraved in stone with Chase these days is "5/24".  It's infrequent that they bend this rule.  Treated as seriously as it is, I speculate that someone in your shoes, applying with "4/24" and a modestly soft history, will see some scrutiny of recent credit apps.  If they happen to be bunched into the last 6 mo or 12 mo, I expect that to weigh somewhat against you, even though you haven't pushed up against "5/24".

 

So my call for you is to wait until one of your recent opens rolls out of your most recent 24-mo history before applying again (assuming you don't apply for anything else in the interim).

Edited by hdporter
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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, hdporter said:

Do you get the gist of what I'm trying to convey here?  It's for this reason that a recon call is not about discussing the reasoning for decline whatsoever.  Instead, the real intent is to soft pedal your way into an assessment that you take your debts seriously, intend to handle them responsibly, and are a good prospect as a profitable client going forward (all in soft terms that depend much more on being amiable and persuasive in a casual fashion, then being persuasive in terms of hard facts).

I do get what you're trying to convey. The reasoning for my delinquency at all is a strong case and the absolute truth which was that I was on my death bed for 11 days due to a tumor causing me to lose my business (and all income), my wife lost a very well paying job, and our family expanded with our firstborn all within 4 months. I told them look at my 19 years of impeccable payment history and scores prior to 2015. In 2017, I started to recover and never skipped a beat since then. It was a "one-time" incident and real life happens to people. You would think the fact of this was a great one. 

 

I told the reps:

  1. I never filed BK like I could have so easily done. Chase would have gotten zero like all the other creditors. I decided it was my debt and was proud I could settle and pay you 90% of what I did owe you. 
  2. I never was delinquent prior to and 2 years after it happened. 
  3. My last 4 years show perfect payment history and I have only 1 outstanding CO.
  4. My credit score has increased 176 points from 4/7/20 because I feverishly worked on it.
  5. Amex just granted me $9,500 prior to me applying for this Chase card.

 

All of this doesn't matter though. The one time legitimate event that caused this financial debacle of me being sick with a life threatening issue doesn't matter. They simply default me to, "This guy just doesn't pay his debts. Loser". No common sense underwriting. So stupid that it's irritates me as I write this. It makes me want to rack up these credit cards and stick it to them the more so to be honest. 

 

I'll wait 1 year and then I'll be 1/24.

Edited by maverick9
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6 hours ago, maverick9 said:

All of this doesn't matter though. The one time legitimate event that caused this financial debacle of me being sick with a life threatening issue doesn't matter. They simply default me to, "This guy just doesn't pay his debts. Loser". No common sense underwriting. So stupid that it's irritates me as I write this. It makes me want to rack up these credit cards and stick it to them the more so to be honest. 

 

Now that's cause to pause and take a chill pill ...

 

Trust me when I say I fully understand and appreciate your frustration with what's transpired, and there's no problem with venting a bit  But I'm sure you recognize that frustration is largely a counterproductive emotion that is best held in check when the day is done.

 

No one ad Chase is being judgmental.  They reasonably need to assess the risk that you might stick them with unpaid debt, and that's a very imprecise science.  You carry into the application, aside from your overall credit history (positive and negative), two key data points that, all said and done, hurt your position:  the account settlement for less than the full amount due, and the four new accounts in the last two years.

 

Under the right circumstances, your recon would have panned out on the favorable side of the consideration knife's edge.  It didn't (simply bad luck, nothing more).  I know you recognize that no one "deserves" credit extension ... just as with most transactions it's one that occurs at the consent of both parties.

 

Fortunately, there's nothing critical at stake here ... and there's every reason to expect approval on a re-app with the passage of some time and aging of accounts.

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8 hours ago, hdporter said:

 

Now that's cause to pause and take a chill pill ...

 

Trust me when I say I fully understand and appreciate your frustration with what's transpired, and there's no problem with venting a bit  But I'm sure you recognize that frustration is largely a counterproductive emotion that is best held in check when the day is done.

 

No one ad Chase is being judgmental.  They reasonably need to assess the risk that you might stick them with unpaid debt, and that's a very imprecise science.  You carry into the application, aside from your overall credit history (positive and negative), two key data points that, all said and done, hurt your position:  the account settlement for less than the full amount due, and the four new accounts in the last two years.

 

Under the right circumstances, your recon would have panned out on the favorable side of the consideration knife's edge.  It didn't (simply bad luck, nothing more).  I know you recognize that no one "deserves" credit extension ... just as with most transactions it's one that occurs at the consent of both parties.

 

Fortunately, there's nothing critical at stake here ... and there's every reason to expect approval on a re-app with the passage of some time and aging of accounts.

Well said. With that said, Chase can be a strange animal so again, congrats on the Amex approval. The rest is just business and nothing personal.

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12 hours ago, maverick9 said:

I do get what you're trying to convey. The reasoning for my delinquency at all is a strong case and the absolute truth which was that I was on my death bed for 11 days due to a tumor causing me to lose my business (and all income), my wife lost a very well paying job, and our family expanded with our firstborn all within 4 months. I told them look at my 19 years of impeccable payment history and scores prior to 2015. In 2017, I started to recover and never skipped a beat since then. It was a "one-time" incident and real life happens to people. You would think the fact of this was a great one. 

 

I told the reps:

  1. I never filed BK like I could have so easily done. Chase would have gotten zero like all the other creditors. I decided it was my debt and was proud I could settle and pay you 90% of what I did owe you. 
  2. I never was delinquent prior to and 2 years after it happened. 
  3. My last 4 years show perfect payment history and I have only 1 outstanding CO.
  4. My credit score has increased 176 points from 4/7/20 because I feverishly worked on it.
  5. Amex just granted me $9,500 prior to me applying for this Chase card.

 

All of this doesn't matter though. The one time legitimate event that caused this financial debacle of me being sick with a life threatening issue doesn't matter. They simply default me to, "This guy just doesn't pay his debts. Loser". No common sense underwriting. So stupid that it's irritates me as I write this. It makes me want to rack up these credit cards and stick it to them the more so to be honest. 

 

I'll wait 1 year and then I'll be 1/24.

 

You are up against another thing banks fear. Increased defaults because of Covid-19. For the last year plus banks have had tightened credit requirements and have rejected some applications that otherwise would be accepted. So breathe and relax. In 6 to 9 months or so you will be gold to them. Covid-19, in spite of Delta's impact, in cases not deaths, is mostly over. 9 months from now things will be much more normal.

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4 hours ago, cashnocredit said:

You are up against another thing banks fear. Increased defaults because of Covid-19. For the last year plus banks have had tightened credit requirements and have rejected some applications that otherwise would be accepted. So breathe and relax. In 6 to 9 months or so you will be gold to them. Covid-19, in spite of Delta's impact, in cases not deaths, is mostly over. 9 months from now things will be much more normal.

Thanks for the encouraging words here my friend. Yes, I do believe Covid is playing a role in that and it's a great observation. Being that I improved my scores 176 points in 15 months during all of Covid, you'd think would be a great victory the more so in their eyes but nah. 

 

I'll take your advise and reapp though in 6-9 months as you suggest. 

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Posted (edited)

I called in to Credit One Bank and cancelled the account. I told them I want them to report to the CRA's "Closed per customer request". Rep said they would do so and mail me the document. 

 

Should I remove myself from my relatives Barclay and Wawa CC's or is it okay to remain as an AU

Edited by maverick9
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5 hours ago, maverick9 said:

I called in to Credit One Bank and cancelled the account. I told them I want them to report to the CRA's "Closed per customer request". Rep said they would do so and mail me the document. 

 

Should I remove myself from my relatives Barclay and Wawa CC's or is it okay to remain as an AU

 

I applaud the Credit One closure if it had an annual fee.  You're ready to move on.  However, in terms of your credit profile, what prompted the closure?  Also, has there been anything in this thread to suggest that your AU accounts factor against you?

 

Again, I'm incredibly distracted ... in dealing with fit up of our home for sale and other factors involved in relocation, I feel like I'm taking a 2"x 4" to the head about once every couple of hours.  So if the answers I request are readily found in this thread, be kind ;)

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12 hours ago, maverick9 said:

I called in to Credit One Bank and cancelled the account. I told them I want them to report to the CRA's "Closed per customer request". Rep said they would do so and mail me the document. 

 

Should I remove myself from my relatives Barclay and Wawa CC's or is it okay to remain as an AU

 

Congrats on flushing that bowl winder!  Rite of passage.  :D  

 

You can keep the AU accounts as long as they're contributing something positive to your profile.  I am an AU on one of my mom's Chase cards.  While technically unnecessary at this stage, it is "my" oldest account so it has value.  

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17 hours ago, hdporter said:

I applaud the Credit One closure if it had an annual fee.  You're ready to move on.  However, in terms of your credit profile, what prompted the closure?  Also, has there been anything in this thread to suggest that your AU accounts factor against you?

Well, many here suggested that I close the account. I can still reinstate. They sent me to the retainment department and were begging me to stay. I see in the account that I can reinstate it. Should I do so? 

 

No one in this thread suggested remove myself from the AU accounts but in other threads they have suggested I do so because Barclay is considered a subprime card and it's better to get it off your reports. I don't need the AU accounts any longer as I have 4 credit cards now and my scores finally hit 735 so I'm wondering if I should remove myself from the AU accounts. Yes or no?

17 hours ago, hdporter said:

Again, I'm incredibly distracted ... in dealing with fit up of our home for sale and other factors involved in relocation, I feel like I'm taking a 2"x 4" to the head about once every couple of hours.  So if the answers I request are readily found in this thread, be kind ;)

LOL. No problem. I'm grateful for all your input. I've learned so much from you. Thank you! :)

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10 hours ago, cv91915 said:

 

Congrats on flushing that bowl winder!  Rite of passage.  :D  

 

You can keep the AU accounts as long as they're contributing something positive to your profile.  I am an AU on one of my mom's Chase cards.  While technically unnecessary at this stage, it is "my" oldest account so it has value.  

 

Thanks @cv91915! LOL

 

They are all positive tradelines but Barclay? Isn't it considered a subprime card which underwriters kind of frown upon? And Wawas is a gas card. I guess I should keep them? 

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Barclays is not sub-prime to any extent (there are some individuals who don't want anything to do with Barclays .. that's their prerogative).  No lender views a Barclays tradeline on a credit report as a negative factor.

 

I've had more than one Barclays card open consistently since it purchased the US book of business from Juniper Bank (2004-2006).  I currently have 3 open Barclays credit cards.

 

Re Credit One, depending upon how aggressively they sought retention of the account, in your shoes I might have countered to see if I could get something worth keeping it open for a couple of years (factoring in fees).  However, odds of that are slight.  It's not a bad thing to have that card firmly visible in your rear view mirror.

 

As far as AU accounts in general, if they have appreciable age attached to them (say, 8+ years since opening), they're not a bad thing to keep around even after your score advances into prime turf. 

 

One of the battles waged by individuals who aggressively seek to take advantage of strong credit card bonuses is the dilution impact on average account age as a consequence of multiple new accounts each year.  Accounts with age serve as a valuable anchor against that dilution.  The more seasoned accounts on your credit report, the less impact opening a new account has  on your average account age.

 

One of the oldest reporting accounts reporting on my credit report i an Citi AU for which my wife is the primary cardholder.  I have no use for the account, but I'm not letting my AU status go any time soon.  The card was opened in 1989.

Edited by hdporter
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4 hours ago, hdporter said:

Barclays is not sub-prime to any extent (there are some individuals who don't want anything to do with Barclays .. that's their prerogative).  No lender views a Barclays tradeline on a credit report as a negative factor.

 

I've had more than one Barclays card open consistently since it purchased the US book of business from Juniper Bank (2004-2006).  I currently have 3 open Barclays credit cards

Than I'll keep it. 

 

4 hours ago, hdporter said:

Re Credit One, depending upon how aggressively they sought retention of the account, in your shoes I might have countered to see if I could get something worth keeping it open for a couple of years (factoring in fees).  However, odds of that are slight.  It's not a bad thing to have that card firmly visible in your rear view mirror.

 

They were charging me $100 AF and giving me zero rewards. They offered to waive my AF till January then said for me to call in January to have them waive it more. They wouldn't give me any CLI and I only had a $700 limit with them. If I did want a CLI, I would have to pay them $25 for a $200 CLI. Pathetic. I had the card for 3.5 years which is why I was wondering if I should keep it open. As others suggested here it will still report on my CRA's as a positive tradeline even though it's closed but my underwriter friend would have liked to see me keep it open. So this is why I ask if I should keep it open or not. 

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4 hours ago, maverick9 said:

Than I'll keep it. 

 

 

They were charging me $100 AF and giving me zero rewards. They offered to waive my AF till January then said for me to call in January to have them waive it more. They wouldn't give me any CLI and I only had a $700 limit with them. If I did want a CLI, I would have to pay them $25 for a $200 CLI. Pathetic. I had the card for 3.5 years which is why I was wondering if I should keep it open. As others suggested here it will still report on my CRA's as a positive tradeline even though it's closed but my underwriter friend would have liked to see me keep it open. So this is why I ask if I should keep it open or not. 

 

@cv91915 nailed that one on the head:  "bowl swirler"  (or something to that effect ;) )

 

In your shoes, it would take an offsetting benefit of $500 before I would consider keeping that open.   Not sure why your friend would advise you keeping that pit viper in the nest.

 

(btw, I edited my post to comment further re AU cards)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, hdporter said:

 

@cv91915 nailed that one on the head:  "bowl swirler"  (or something to that effect ;) )

 

In your shoes, it would take an offsetting benefit of $500 before I would consider keeping that open.   Not sure why your friend would advise you keeping that pit viper in the nest.

 

(btw, I edited my post to comment further re AU cards)

 

 

 

My friend is not as savvy as you all here. She just seen it as an aged account of 3.5 years, that's open, with perfect payment history so suggested it's a healthy tradeline for when I go purchase my new home next year. 

 

I read your edited post. The Barclays was open in 2012 and the Wawa in 2019 so I'll keep them after what you told me. 

 

Also, I just checked my EX report online and my AAOA is 8 years old and my oldest account is 22.3 years old. It states, "Exceptional Credit History Length". So I guess this is good?

Edited by maverick9
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