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4506-T request from Discover


zwerb
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I wa invited to apply; I applied on Saturday; approved immediately.

 

Account opened with balance transfer.

 

This morning received email with 4506-t request via Equifax -- they want my tax returns as follows:

 

"Return Transcript, which includes most of the line items of a tax return as filed with the IRS. A tax return transcript does not reflect changes made to the account after the return is processed. Transcripts are only available for the following returns: Form 1040 series. Form 1065, Form 1120. Form 1120-A, Form 1120-H, Form 1120-L, and Form 1120S. Return transcripts are available for the current year and returns processed during the prior 3 processing years."

 

Er -- I'm not comfortable giving them 3 years of my tax returns so checking to see:

  • Is it safe to do so (I reported accurately in my application)?
  • Do they actually look at three years???
  • If I would rather not, is there a ding to my credit report? (They already opened the account before verifying apparently)
  • Will they close my existing Discover accounts?
  • Is there any impact to my non-Discover accounts?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

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In response to your questions ...

 

-- It's not "unsafe".  Although most creditors to past overall account performance for some indication of consistency with your reported income and typically don't ask for access to tax transcripts, it's within the right of any creditor to do so (and such requests are becoming more prevalent).  Presumably if your transcript reflects income reasonably consistent with your reported income, you should expect to change to your current account standing.

 

-- Most likely any creditor is most interested in the most recent year's reported income.

 

-- If you don't accede to the request, you can bank on the account being closed.  The only related credit "ding" would be reduced credit availability.

 

-- Whatever the outcome of the review, there should be no impact to your accounts with other issuers.

 

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There is really nothing to worry about unless you lied about your income on the application.

 

Whether or not you want to do business with a subprime company like Discovery is another matter.

 

Let us know how this turns out, and good luck!

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Posted (edited)
Quote

-- It's not "unsafe".  Although        most creditors look to past overall account performance for some indication of consistency with your reported income and typically don't ask for access to tax transcripts, it's within the right of any creditor to do so (and such requests are becoming more prevalent).  Presumably if your transcript reflects income reasonably consistent with your reported income, you should expect to no change to your current account standing.

 

< Sometime my fingers have a mind of their own >

Edited by hdporter
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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2021 at 8:09 PM, hdporter said:

The only related credit "ding" would be reduced credit availability.

Sounds like OP did a BT when opening the account. So unless they have a viable option to either pay off the balance or transfer it elsewhere there will be a major utilization hit against their FICO scores should the card be closed.
 

If everything stated on the application is true and verifiable, it makes sense to comply with the request. 

Edited by DPB
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  • 5 months later...

It's the pandemic causing not just Discover but Amex and Capitalone getting on the bandwagon of kicking people off the credit rolls knowing people will flunk the credit reviews or bail before signing the 4506.  The industry looks for signs of hardship knowing people will not pay their bills or be slow in paying. Credit card holders are dying.  Profits are at stake.  Account holders call in asking for more credit stating they are in hardship which actually goes the other way with the issuer.

The biggest thing is I would be signing over my tax history which is a laugh in the first place to the people over at Experian. The data breaches and farming out their work to India or Malaysia. No way Jose.  Industries buy and sell and info is shared.  Its too risky having your info splayed all over the financial world.  Identify theft invariably occurs. Looking towards my future I need to close my new Discover card which is no heartbreak.  I will call Discover and say I got the card in the mail and I'll tell them I got it and also say thanks but no thanks I changed my mind.   I'm pretty sure theyll know the real reason I'm bailing but Experian also serves Capitalone as well so I could be screwed over there too and get my Quicksilver shut down because I wouldnt sign a 4506 with Disco.  I had a good thing going with Quicksilver before I signed up for Discover It.  I didnt even need Discover in the first place.   Live and learn o guess even at my ripe old age of 64.

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BINGO!!!!


The true issue isn't honesty in stating your income. I'd like to believe that most people are if not only for the simple act that it would be a federal felony to lie on a credit application.

The real issue with providing tax documents is security. While the data the IRS provides from a 4506-T request isn't as detailed as when some banks demand copies of your full tax returns, you'd be surprised at how data can be reverse engineered to give strong indications on many aspects of your personal and financial life. If you file a joint return with your spouse, you are giving up their data, too, as well as that of any dependents you claim.

Yet another important factor is who exactly has access to the information once you provide it. It's a fact that American Express and HSBC, for example, have this data processed and reviewed by their staff in India.

Probably THE most important factor for me, is what happens to this data once your bank uses it for evaluation of your account. Many major banks have suffered data breaches resulting in critical data being accessed by criminals. The credit bureaus have been hacked. Even the CIA has had data breaches. Anybody who tells you that your data is 100% secure is regarded. And anybody who believes them when they tell you that story has the IQ of a gerbil.

Does anybody really believe that the data they get from your tax documents is only used for evaluation of your account? They also mine that data and use it for marketing purposes. Years ago I was stupid enough to provide tax returns to a certain financial institution and within a week all of a sudden they are sending me solicitations for child educational savings products and life insurance to ensure my children don't suffer financially when I croak. Then, shortly thereafter when one child turned 18, she miraculously gets a credit card pre-approval from that same financial institution. Coincidence? No effing way.

I don't need to lie about my income. My income and my employment is a matter of pubic record. If anything, I understate my income. I never include any extraneous income I get and I don't include my wife's. The only thing any entity that demands my tax data will ever hear from me is suck my richard.


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15 hours ago, PotO said:

 


The true issue isn't honesty in stating your income. I'd like to believe that most people are if not only for the simple act that it would be a federal felony to lie on a credit application.

The real issue with providing tax documents is security. While the data the IRS provides from a 4506-T request isn't as detailed as when some banks demand copies of your full tax returns, you'd be surprised at how data can be reverse engineered to give strong indications on many aspects of your personal and financial life. If you file a joint return with your spouse, you are giving up their data, too, as well as that of any dependents you claim.

Yet another important factor is who exactly has access to the information once you provide it. It's a fact that American Express and HSBC, for example, have this data processed and reviewed by their staff in India.

Probably THE most important factor for me, is what happens to this data once your bank uses it for evaluation of your account. Many major banks have suffered data breaches resulting in critical data being accessed by criminals. The credit bureaus have been hacked. Even the CIA has had data breaches. Anybody who tells you that your data is 100% secure is regarded. And anybody who believes them when they tell you that story has the IQ of a gerbil.

Does anybody really believe that the data they get from your tax documents is only used for evaluation of your account? They also mine that data and use it for marketing purposes. Years ago I was stupid enough to provide tax returns to a certain financial institution and within a week all of a sudden they are sending me solicitations for child educational savings products and life insurance to ensure my children don't suffer financially when I croak. Then, shortly thereafter when one child turned 18, she miraculously gets a credit card pre-approval from that same financial institution. Coincidence? No effing way.

I don't need to lie about my income. My income and my employment is a matter of pubic record. If anything, I understate my income. I never include any extraneous income I get and I don't include my wife's. The only thing any entity that demands my tax data will ever hear from me is suck my richard.


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I don't disagree on your concerns here. 

 

I would not complete 4506-t for a discovery card or for synch but I have no problem with amex or chase or real banks that provide me with services I benefit from knowing. Then again, I have often lied on credit applications by understating income and then there are some years where we have no idea what her annual bonus will be so in June I might say income is X when it turns out in December to be 1.5*X.

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I don't disagree on your concerns here. 

 

I would not complete 4506-t for a discovery card or for synch but I have no problem with amex or chase or real banks that provide me with services I benefit from knowing. Then again, I have often lied on credit applications by understating income and then there are some years where we have no idea what her annual bonus will be so in June I might say income is X when it turns out in December to be 1.5*X.

Yes, for AmEx I *might* relent and provide 4506-T transcripts. Transcripts contain far less hard data then your actual tax returns. Maybe even for Chase, but it depends. For USAA? Or even Navy or PenFed? Nope. Never. Out of the question. They can SMD.

 

Actual tax returns? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

 

Using your definition of lying, I lie on a frequent basis. I do not include Pharmaho's income. I exclude a lot of extra income and allowances.

 

By the way, 50 people in my unit and about 10 personal friends gave USAA a dishonorable discharge today. As soon as my direct deposit hits on Monday, I am calling them to tell them to FOAD.

 

 

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Interesting.

 

My current income is pretty low compared to my spending. When Covid-19 hit I put all the rental income from my apartment complex into refurbishing. I also haven't sold any appreciated assets in the last 3 years. Rather unusual for me but I have fairly large liquid assets too and I thought it best not to sell anything. So income was only a local rental and SS payments.

 

The net result is that my IRS income for the last 2 years was low enough I got stimulous checks/deposits. Lucky timing.

 

I'll probably reverse that next year. Or not.

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14 hours ago, PotO said:

By the way, 50 people in my unit

Which are you a ranking CO to -  A Brigade, Regiment, Battalion, or Platoon. Haha... Obvious the latter is a joke. :D

 

Unless it's the consists of three to four squads or sections. Which a company contains three to five platoons and a total of 60 to 200 soldiers.

 

My take - The ranks of O-5 pay grade, true? I don't think you're a Brigade commander, whereas your ranks must be a Brigadier general. In any case, even an O-5 rank binds you to 15-20 years of military service or more.

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5 hours ago, MP80 said:

Which are you a ranking CO to -  A Brigade, Regiment, Battalion, or Platoon. Haha... Obvious the latter is a joke. :D

 

Unless it's the consists of three to four squads or sections. Which a company contains three to five platoons and a total of 60 to 200 soldiers.

 

My take - The ranks of O-5 pay grade, true? I don't think you're a Brigade commander, whereas your ranks must be a Brigadier general. In any case, even an O-5 rank binds you to 15-20 years of military service or more.

here I figured him for a General der Fallschirmtruppe

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5 hours ago, hegemony said:

here I figured him for a General der Fallschirmtruppe

Hahaha... Are you saying his ranks are equivalent to a US Lieutenant general, O-9 pay grade? That WW2 General der Fallschirm Truppe Deutsche Luftwaffe German rank is crazy to compare to modern US ranking insignia.  :lol:

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here I figured him for a General der Fallschirmtruppe

O9? Thanks, Hege, but not yet. In fact, it would be impossible for me to reach Lt. General unless I start some serious ... Ooops, political comments & discussions are against the CB T&C.


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Which are you a ranking CO to -  A Brigade, Regiment, Battalion, or Platoon. Haha... Obvious the latter is a joke. 
 
Unless it's the consists of three to four squads or sections. Which a company contains three to five platoons and a total of 60 to 200 soldiers.
 
My take - The ranks of O-5 pay grade, true? I don't think you're a Brigade commander, whereas your ranks must be a Brigadier general. In any case, even an O-5 rank binds you to 15-20 years of military service or more.

Brigade? Our concept of brigade is probably a bit different than in other branches. We call them MEB.

Before I landed my current cushy assignment, I was the HMFIC of a unit of slightly under 5,000. After my current assignment, assuming I don't pull the plug, I'll have two choices: 1) AHMFIC of a unit of around 15,000 or moving through the hierarchy of the largest open sewer system the US has located in D.C.

Smart money is on pulling the plug.

By the way, I have over 30k numbers in my Apple phone book. As soon as I get motivated enough to find out how I can do a mass SMS, I expect there will be far more than 50 who give USAA a dishonorable discharge.


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Interesting.

 

My current income is pretty low compared to my spending. When Covid-19 hit I put all the rental income from my apartment complex into refurbishing. I also haven't sold any appreciated assets in the last 3 years. Rather unusual for me but I have fairly large liquid assets too and I thought it best not to sell anything. So income was only a local rental and SS payments.

 

The net result is that my IRS income for the last 2 years was low enough I got stimulous checks/deposits. Lucky timing.

 

I'll probably reverse that next year. Or not.

Were you with USAA, their new MOET Gestapo Team would be giving you a deep rectal probe as we speak.

 

 

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And my old paid mortage aged off my reports. Addy is a PO Box and no history of employment. Might look like a bust out candidate.

Hopefully they will look at one's long stellar credit history. Bust out candidates probably wouldn't wait 29 years to make their move.


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I generally understate my income, but I don't go to elaborate tricks to smooth it.  I report whatever it is right now, minus some safety factor.  That may be more or less than last year's income, so past tax records are not an accurate representation of my current situation.  That's in addition to the whole idea being offensive to me, as well as being insecure.  There is no credit card I would value highly enough to comply with a 4506-T request.  If they all required that, I'd rather live without credit cards.

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21 hours ago, PotO said:


Hopefully they will look at one's long stellar credit history. Bust out candidates probably wouldn't wait 29 years to make their move.

Yeah. Unfortunately, my history starts in 2009 because in the 90's I stopped using credit cards because debit cards were less paperwork. Big mistake that. I had a few CCs with >50k CLs which was quite a bit back then. Started wondering why hotels were giving me a hard time with debit cards which led to google then creditboards. I had no idea at the time. Promptly picked up a secured card and autopay took care of the paperwork.

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