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Bank VS Retail VS Co-Brand Cards

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 - Credit "Mix" -

 

Are Co-Branded cards classified as Retail or just another Revolving (CC) account?  My goal is to retain a "Retail or Store card" even though I loath store cards and thus I would choose a Co-Brand over the other if I had a choice.

 

I've noticed that different reporting, scoring and evaluation models/methods categorize accounts differently such as Lines Of Credit (LOC) are sometimes labeled as Revolving, Other, or Loan.

 

I have plenty of (Bank) Revolving CCs and LOCs however, some evaluation comments chastise me as I have no Retail (Store) accounts.  I figured, "OK.  Fine.  I'll get one".  Then I stepped into a pile of muck because of terminology and that's why I mentioned the above varying labels and need CB's member help. Please.

 

In my quest, I saw Target and Macy's have relatively-highly regarded (Retail) Store Credit Cards and as well, they have Co-Branded cards by Master-Card (Target) and Am-Ex (Macy's).  I decided to go for the co-branded cards rather than the dreaded Retail card...  That's when that pile of ignorant muck grabbed my foot and ankle preventing me from moving forward and thoroughly froze my brain - solid.  I'm stuck.

 

Are those co-branded cards classified Bank, Retail or Co-Brand Cards?

 

And yes, Home Depot and Lowes as well as many others have Co-Branded, Retail(?) cards.

 

Thanks in advance for the shared knowledge. 🖕

 

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IME a cobranded card on a major network (Visa, Amex, MC) is a credit card account and not a store card.

 

FWIW, my scores are over 800 and the only "store" card I have is Lowes. All of my other cards are issued on Visa, MC, Amex, or UnionPay networks.

 

I think the breakdown of retail card versus credit card was mor eimportant for older versions of FICO.

 

And I don't think you "stuck" the target and macy's you have are much more useful than a retail card.

 

 

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2 hours ago, hegemony said:

IME a cobranded card on a major network (Visa, Amex, MC) is a credit card account and not a store card....

 

...more useful than a retail card.

 

 

Your experience is greatly appreciated hegemony.  Thank you.

 

My scores (VISA, MC, Am-Ex & Discover + Auto + LOC + Personal Loans) are also mostly 800+/- except for one Experian 9/19/2020 FIco 2 score from NASA(672 OUCH!)).  Incorrectly, there is a collection that should be removed after which I'll pull the 28 FICOs.  I'm baffled by a collection and 800 scores.

 

I'm stuck in the muck because I haven't been able to decide which co-brand or retail store card so, I have zero Target or Macy's accounts as of now. 

 

You have a Lowes card.  They have both Co-Branded and a few Retail cards. 

 

I have to repeat as it is an irritant to me.  "I will get a store (retail) card if I have to".  I'd much rather get what I call a real (Co-Brand or Bank) credit card if I can have it count as a Retail card.

 

In all honesty, I think that there might not be one factual, objective answer especially when you take into account the three (major) bureaus and the two (major-ish) scoring companies with their 29 models. 

Edited by sCHMOE

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Not every score factor is equally important, and a small handful of them are just bizarre. 

 

From time to time I'll get "too many consumer finance accounts," and yet by any definition I've ever seen, I don't have any. 

 

As a reference point, my FICO 8s are consistently in the 830s or 840s.  

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4 hours ago, cv91915 said:

Not every score factor is equally important, and a small handful of them are just bizarre...

Not equal and Bizarre? Agreed.  Although, in my opinion, they 'seem' to be getting better, but I may be being to optimistic as this is a long game.  I get "revolving account balances are too high" and they are below the 10% mark individually and over-all.  Another dumb one is 'Loan balances are too high" even though they too are below 10%.  I think the analyst algorithms have to say something negative, or they feel they aren't doing their job.  SMH

 

Speaking of the long game and idiotic analysis; This is a puzzle that I'm wrestling with regarding the Retail/Co-Branding card thing here.  I do hope to remove the excuses from the analysis of my CRs.    Making sense of it may-be not be possible and could simply be a lost cause.  The store card seems to be low hanging fruit, but it would be better if I could get a Co-Brand instead of a high interest low benefit store card.

 

My scores are currently, on average, low, due to the fact that I have 1 out of 4 incorrect collection accounts remaining.  My scores are not as high 'normally' as yours although Navy FCU and Pen-Fed give me 850s a lot of the time.  I would guestimate that before the 4 collections hit they were averaging about 825 with Fico 8s and 9s as well as Vantage 3.  Fico 2s seem to dislike me thoroughly which is another gardening project in the near future.

 

 

Edited by sCHMOE

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1 hour ago, sCHMOE said:

Not equal and Bizarre? Agreed.  Although, in my opinion, they 'seem' to be getting better, but I may be being to optimistic as this is a long game.  I get "revolving account balances are too high" and they are below the 10% mark individually and over-all.  Another dumb one is 'Loan balances are too high" even though they too are below 10%.  I think the analyst algorithms have to say something negative, or they feel they aren't doing their job.  SMH

 

Speaking of the long game and idiotic analysis; This is a puzzle that I'm wrestling with regarding the Retail/Co-Branding card thing here.  I do hope to remove the excuses from the analysis of my CRs.    Making sense of it may-be not be possible and could simply be a lost cause.  The store card seems to be low hanging fruit, but it would be better if I could get a Co-Brand instead of a high interest low benefit store card.

 

My scores are currently, on average, low, due to the fact that I have 1 out of 4 incorrect collection accounts remaining.  My scores are not as high 'normally' as yours although Navy FCU and Pen-Fed give me 850s a lot of the time.  I would guestimate that before the 4 collections hit they were averaging about 825 with Fico 8s and 9s as well as Vantage 3.  Fico 2s seem to dislike me thoroughly which is another gardening project in the near future.

 

 

If you have a collection reporting and you get declined for new credit, having a collection + a store card won't make any difference.

 

In fact, having a store card isn't going mean the difference between approval and denial under almost any circumstance, except perhaps going from a completely empty file to having only one store card reporting 6 months of history (this would also mean going from having no FICO score to having your file be scorable).

 

I get one or more score factors every time my FICO 8 isn't at 850.  That doesn't mean the score factors are worth "addressing."

 

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6 hours ago, cv91915 said:

 

The collection is, indeed, the largest negative factor that needs to be addressed.   It is and will be removed PDQ.  In this case a comparison could be my car.  If it has a flat that needs addressing, I can't ignore the gas, water and oil.

 

I agree.  Credit MIX counts for 10% of a FIco score.  ONE account of that mix wouldn't mean a whole-lot.  The inquiry, the 2 year 'new account' status, the over-all AOA and then the "lacking account information" on revolving accounts almost makes opening a new account not worth-while at all.  The credit report/score game.  {eye-roll} Like budgeting, and scheduling - credit report/scoring can't be ignored either.

 

You say, "That doesn't mean the score factors are worth "addressing."  Again, I agree - especially when they are commonly inaccurate, however when they are accurate, I take the opposite position.

 

cv,  I haven't said thank you.  Forgive me.  I do appreciate your time, knowledge and willingness to share them.  Thank you.

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1 hour ago, sCHMOE said:

The collection is, indeed, the largest negative factor that needs to be addressed.   It is and will be removed PDQ.  In this case a comparison could be my car.  If it has a flat that needs addressing, I can't ignore the gas, water and oil.

 

I agree.  Credit MIX counts for 10% of a FIco score.  ONE account of that mix wouldn't mean a whole-lot.  The inquiry, the 2 year 'new account' status, the over-all AOA and then the "lacking account information" on revolving accounts almost makes opening a new account not worth-while at all.  The credit report/score game.  {eye-roll} Like budgeting, and scheduling - credit report/scoring can't be ignored either.

 

You say, "That doesn't mean the score factors are worth "addressing."  Again, I agree - especially when they are commonly inaccurate, however when they are accurate, I take the opposite position.

 

cv,  I haven't said thank you.  Forgive me.  I do appreciate your time, knowledge and willingness to share them.  Thank you.

Happy to offer an opinion at any time.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do.  

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I concur with CV. Having a "retail" card wold be very low on my rank order of items to fret about.

 

  1. get your reports clean.
  2. obtain cards that offer you rewards and benefits that fit your regular spending patterns.
  3. always PIF.

 

Put differently, according to some versions of FICO my score isn't higher because I have no open installment loan. Do you think it is worth my time and money to open a car loan, mortgage, or "self loan hack" just for a few fico points? I don't.

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This thread also got me thinking how worthless the category of "retail card" has become owing to the huge consolidation in creditors in this space over the past 15 years.

 

Today there are only a handful of large issuers: Synchrony, Citi Retail Services, Comenity, Alliance Data Systems, Wells Fargo Private Label, and TD Bank. It used to be that large, regional retailers issued their own store cards. Starting the 1990s this all changed and now one is hard pressed to name a retailer that issues its own. Even for gas/oil cards there has been a shift to outsource card offerings.

 

So back to the first thought in this post, given the standardization of underwriting and that so many retail cards are now issued by a handful of companies -- companies that also offer network cards -- how meaningful can the retail card distinction be for credit risk? I bet the share of default risk FICO found in "retail cards" in the credit mix portion of scores was much higher in 1995 than it is today.

 

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1 hour ago, hegemony said:

I concur with CV. Having a "retail" card wold be very low on my rank order of items to fret about.

 

  1. get your reports clean.
  2. obtain cards that offer you rewards and benefits that fit your regular spending patterns.
  3. always PIF.

 

Put differently, according to some versions of FICO my score isn't higher because I have no open installment loan. Do you think it is worth my time and money to open a car loan, mortgage, or "self loan hack" just for a few fico points? I don't.

I agree with CV as well as hegemony too and appreciate their replies they've offered.  Opening a Retail or a Co-branded card are easy-peasy, quick and easy.  I have had no reason to open a store card as my Am-Ex, MC's, VISA and Dicover cards are cash back cards.  My Arco isn't but some of my debit cards are even cash-back.  Rewards a-plenty here.

 

I mentioned the collection account to reflect my know-how regarding Credt Reports and Scoring.  I've been doing it for decades and decades.  I have 672 - 796 FIco scores and >800 Van 3 scores with that 1 of 4 collections still reporting.  That is Top tier credit scores aside from 3 (see sig) and that is with a collection... that is being removed shortly.   Multi-tasking eh ?  Your advice is solid.  How I may have mislead you is that the other 3 of 4 collections are already removed and there is only 1 left.

___________________

Bank VS Retail VS Co-Brand Cards

 - Credit "Mix" -

Are Co-Branded cards classified as Retail or just another Revolving (CC) account?

___________________

My ignorance is regarding Retail Cards.  Hegemony (TYVM) has implied through experience (subjectively) that Co-Branded store cards are NOT Retail.  If I knew that as factual (objective), case closed.  I go get a horrid retail card.    No problem-o, but if I can get around it, I would love it.

 

If I offend, I am not only ignorant, but stupid as well.  As a long time lurker, I know and highly respect cv and hegemony and their generosity in sharing their knowledge and presence on CB and in this thread.  Very righteous behavior.

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"co branded" store cards issued on a major payment network (Visa, MC, amex, UnionPay) are not retail cards.

 

But AFAIK FICO sees a card like Lowes issued by Sync as a retail card.

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6 hours ago, hegemony said:

This thread also got me thinking how worthless the category of "retail card" has become owing to the huge consolidation in creditors in this space over the past 15 years.

 

Today there are only a handful of large issuers: Synchrony, Citi Retail Services, Comenity, Alliance Data Systems, Wells Fargo Private Label, and TD Bank. It used to be that large, regional retailers issued their own store cards. Starting the 1990s this all changed and now one is hard pressed to name a retailer that issues its own. Even for gas/oil cards there has been a shift to outsource card offerings.

 

So back to the first thought in this post, given the standardization of underwriting and that so many retail cards are now issued by a handful of companies -- companies that also offer network cards -- how meaningful can the retail card distinction be for credit risk? I bet the share of default risk FICO found in "retail cards" in the credit mix portion of scores was much higher in 1995 than it is today.

 

Although, and of course, I am still agreeing with you,  it is for different reasons than stated.  Retail cards are virtually worthless potentially more dangerous than the major branded cards..

 

I see Retail cards as high-risk cards to carry.  (hypothetical question) Why would someone carry a High Interest card that carries roughly 24%+ interest, higher penalties and higher fees ?  Building or rebuilding credit is the only reason I can see.   And if that reason applies, go get one !  Good for you. 

 

Major network, bank, branded cards have less interest, penalties and fees.  If you have decent credit, you can qualify for more benefits as well (Rewards) like Cash Back and Points and MANY more benefits.

 

"how meaningful can the retail card distinction be for credit risk?" I suggest Zero distinction or higher risk and as far a risk, what about cost to benefit ratio for the cardholder! - SMH

 

And yet, I know, if I can't find an answer for my silly question here, I will be getting and using one myself.  (Boooo) (shrug)

 

 

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2 hours ago, hegemony said:

"co branded" store cards issued on a major payment network (Visa, MC, amex, UnionPay) are not retail cards.

 

But AFAIK FICO sees a card like Lowes issued by Sync as a retail card.

"Are not retail cards" THAT is exactly what I needed and was hoping for.  Thank you Very much hegemony !

 

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