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How to get on top of mounting Debt $60,000.00


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I currently have numerous CC's 2 are zeroed out. 3 with Chase, 1 Navy Federal, 1 Discover, 1 Capital One.  My business is gone and I have been on unemployment for months.  I still have fair Credit depends on who I check but 701 EX, 694 EQ, not sure TU.  I am not behind on anything but since all I can pay is just a bit over minimums the interest is making it so I am getting nowhere.  I thought if I paid off a few of the cards I would be able to get NEW 0% cards and shift what is owed. At least then I'd be making headway towards the payoff.  I took advantage of the no payments for a few months, but they just kept adding interest so I don't think that helped me much.  I called Chase and they won't lower my interest, but will close my accounts and then lower interest.  I've looked at consolidation loans but the interest rates are as bad as the cards so why do it.  Does anyone have any ideas?  My B of A has an $11,000. limit, but it's at Zero, so I thought they might give me a new card however I'm hesitant to try because if they don't it's another ding on the credit. 

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2 hours ago, BethM said:

I currently have numerous CC's 2 are zeroed out. 3 with Chase, 1 Navy Federal, 1 Discover, 1 Capital One.  My business is gone and I have been on unemployment for months.  I still have fair Credit depends on who I check but 701 EX, 694 EQ, not sure TU.  I am not behind on anything but since all I can pay is just a bit over minimums the interest is making it so I am getting nowhere.  I thought if I paid off a few of the cards I would be able to get NEW 0% cards and shift what is owed. At least then I'd be making headway towards the payoff.  I took advantage of the no payments for a few months, but they just kept adding interest so I don't think that helped me much.  I called Chase and they won't lower my interest, but will close my accounts and then lower interest.  I've looked at consolidation loans but the interest rates are as bad as the cards so why do it.  Does anyone have any ideas?  My B of A has an $11,000. limit, but it's at Zero, so I thought they might give me a new card however I'm hesitant to try because if they don't it's another ding on the credit. 

You need to look at your overall situation not just the credit cards. Since you've been unemployed I assume you've already do this but in case you haven't are you on a written budget? There are some excellent threads in the MM forum on budgeting, cf. https://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52305-budgeting-and-saving-money-the-mother-thread/

 

You can also learn a lot of cutting back in this thread: https://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45756-here-is-what-i-do-to-have-50-extra-a-month-for-cc-payments/

 

Until you get your budget figured out, moving debt around is not much of a strategy.

 

Can you list the accounts, balances, limits, and APR? You;'re in the right place to get help as there as many people here who have survived your type of situation.

 

 

 

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Every time I see "unemployed for months" I think wtf?? At the risk of sounding like a cold-hearted "get a job" type...I had a similar amount of debt 12 months ago and I'm down to the last $8500. This is what worked for me:

 

Wake up.  Work ass off. Go to bed.  I can't remember the last date I had a day off.  

 

*moderator edit*
its easy to show a bit of empathy and support than to be an ass.... its even easier to scroll by and not say/type a word when you cant show said empathy and support.

 

 

Edited by TeeSharice
douchebaggery
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Getting on top of it is the easy part...put all envelopes in a pile on the floor and then stand on them.  Voila.  You are on top of them ;)

 

But seriously...taking on a new card is not always the best option, especially if some of the current cards are showing more than 50% utilization.  It may be worth exploring BT offers with the cards that currently have no balance.  Shifting the balance COULD simply be delaying an inevitable outcome, but in the interim, at least more of your payment each month got put towards principal instead of the interest tally.

 

You are correct that the no payment options were not customer friendly (in addition to sending up the internal flags about a struggling customer).  As I recall, the current guidelines call for 1% of the balance plus all accumulated interest.  There may be some cards that call for more than that (excluding small balances where $35 may be a minimum even with a $40 balance), but those are not the norm.  Where you are able to pay more than minimums, select the cards with the highest interest rates.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Debtsuccinylcholine said:

Every time I see "unemployed for months" I think wtf?? At the risk of sounding like a cold-hearted "get a job" type...I had a similar amount of debt 12 months ago and I'm down to the last $8500. This is what worked for me:

 

Wake up.  Work ass off. Go to bed.  I can't remember the last date I had a day off.  

 

 

Let's remember we are judgement free here.

 

But, OP, although the message was a little harsh it is on point.  Only way you are going to really solve the problem (without a major credit hit) is to pay off the cards.  While looking for refinancing solutions is one thing to do, you should also be looking at your budget and where you can cut expenses and if you can increase income.  As Hege mentioned, there are some good threads over in MM, but simple things to think of (granted maybe not all are feasible):

 - get another job

 - reduce # of cars in household/downgrade car

 - Take in a renter

 - no entertainment spending (much easier with COVID).  No dining out, take out, etc.

 - cut cable.  cut streaming services.  reduce internet speed

 - have a tag sale/craigslist/ebay unneeded items.

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@BethM as someone who filed bankruptcy 11 years ago, I look at your post and am worried about the level of debt you have relative to your income. (no income, high debt)  Getting more credit is NOT going to solve your debt problem. As Hegemony says, moving your debt around is not going to get rid of it either. With that much debt and no income, anything you do except pay the debt off will be a cosmetic cover up and at best and not a real solution.

 

I was seriously ill two years ago (ironically with a lung issue similar to COVID). My debt piled up quickly even with good insurance. I ended up owing over 50k after my insurance paid their part. This was in addition to about 18k of credit card debt. I paid it all off by concentrating on paying off the smallest balances first and getting them out of the way and then using all of my discretionary income to pay off the rest. 

 

I now owe about 7k total on 75k worth of credit cards. All medical debt has been paid off for over a year. (I took a 401k loan and paid the loan back early with my yearly bonuses. Not sure this board approves of that or not lol) 

 

I was employed with a decent salary so it's not a fair comparison I get it. But the key here is that 60k of debt is not going to go away. If you are unemployed, there is almost no way you can fix that problem without cutting your budget and paying down the balances. Sooner or later the credit bureaus will "guess" that your income situation may have changed and might follow up to find out income verification, especially if you start spending more on the cards or your patterns change on the cards.

 

Pay as much as you can on them. 

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2 hours ago, Debtsuccinylcholine said:

 

 

*moderator edit*
its easy to show a bit of empathy and support than to be an ass.... its even easier to scroll by and not say/type a word when you cant show said empathy and support.

 

 

Empathy:  I've been where you are recently, and in fact I'm STILL battling debt.  Wait, that was in my post. 

 

Support: What worked for me was this... wait, that was in my post. 

 

I scratch the part about unemployment if that is what triggered the mod.  It was one of the biggest red flags I saw in the OP, but I suppose it was pointing out the obvious. 

 

Good luck BethM!  Seek tough love from within and go slay your debt your way!!!  Best wishes!

 

Edited to add: Sprinkling in more empathy and support just in case!

Edited by Debtsuccinylcholine
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To the OP. A lot of great advice has been presented. Many of us have been in your shoes. Yes, the love here is a little tough at times. With that said, I'm gonna hold off on my recommendation, of trying the Velvet Jones get out of debt method. You can do this.

 

Don't be afraid to share your progress, ask for advice, or simply vent if you need to.

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Since I didn't go into any GREAT detail regarding my situation, here is a bit:  I have run a children's nonprofit program - musical theatre - for 14 years.  I had to shut it down in March.  Since then I have cut bills drastically by 1. Moving - Saving $1500 a month over past rent 2. Lowered all bills - Elec, Gas, cut off home phone completely, lowered Cell bill, cut internet, Oh and by the way, I'm 67.  

I'm not complaining because I LOVED my work with the kids, however, the pay was not great.  I did get a disaster loan, and I am looking for new ways to offer alternative programs, so I'm not just sitting on my A**, so to speak.  

I've always been a hard worker, and I'm not afraid to work, however, at 67 I am afraid of contracting COVID. I have had 2 friends who got it thus far and another whose mother just died from it. 

I realize this is my situation and I am looking at every possible solution. 

I sincerely appreciate everyone's responses and will take each suggestion into consideration. 

 

With great gratitude for your thoughts and time, 

BethM

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On 8/31/2020 at 4:08 PM, BethM said:

I currently have numerous CC's 2 are zeroed out. 3 with Chase, 1 Navy Federal, 1 Discover, 1 Capital One.  My business is gone and I have been on unemployment for months.  I still have fair Credit depends on who I check but 701 EX, 694 EQ, not sure TU.  I am not behind on anything but since all I can pay is just a bit over minimums the interest is making it so I am getting nowhere.  I thought if I paid off a few of the cards I would be able to get NEW 0% cards and shift what is owed. At least then I'd be making headway towards the payoff.  I took advantage of the no payments for a few months, but they just kept adding interest so I don't think that helped me much.  I called Chase and they won't lower my interest, but will close my accounts and then lower interest.  I've looked at consolidation loans but the interest rates are as bad as the cards so why do it.  Does anyone have any ideas?  My B of A has an $11,000. limit, but it's at Zero, so I thought they might give me a new card however I'm hesitant to try because if they don't it's another ding on the credit. 

A balance transfer is a horrible idea. If things head south and you are out for an even longer period and can't make payments it will create issues. Right now bankruptcy is not on the radar, but if you eventually can't make the payments it will be. You'll get there if you continue to have employment issues. Having large balance transfers within 18 months would be a potential problem should BK become an issue.

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2 hours ago, CreditCurious20 said:

A balance transfer is a horrible idea. If things head south and you are out for an even longer period and can't make payments it will create issues. Right now bankruptcy is not on the radar, but if you eventually can't make the payments it will be. You'll get there if you continue to have employment issues. Having large balance transfers within 18 months would be a potential problem should BK become an issue.

Not at all, so many problems here. Terrible advice. No trustee or judge would look at a 0% BT with even remote curiosity. Especially considering it's likely the individual would max out whatever cards they have before filing. Even if they didn't, the look back period for new debt is 90 days. Not to mention any claw back would be the creditor's problem, not the individual's. 

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On 9/1/2020 at 4:08 AM, BethM said:

... My business is gone and I have been on unemployment for months.  ... get NEW 0% cards ...  so I thought they might give me a new card however I'm hesitant to try because if they don't it's another ding on the credit. 

 

I'm just wondering ... what would you put for employment and income on an application for a new card?

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3 hours ago, PotO said:

 

I'm just wondering ... what would you put for employment and income on an application for a new card?

 

PotO's concern here is very relevant ...

 

I applaud @BethM inasmuch as it appears she has honored her debt obligations to date under very trying circumstances, positioning her with reasonably strong FICO's.  And the tone of this post suggests that she is looking for any means by which to continue making required payments, with stronger prospects of making progress in repayment the debt.

 

That said, BethM needs to take full stock of her situation and see how realistic the prospects are that this debt can be liquidated within a reasonable time frame.  @hegemony advises taking the first step of that process ... you need at least a rough budget to realistically assess how much free cash you have each month to support debt payments.

 

If BethM were, say, age 35, with future employment prospects, and could allocate at least $1200 a month toward the debt to begin with, then I'd suggest digging in for the long haul (looking to repay the debt over 4-5 years, taking advantage of 0% promo bt's where possible to reduce interest carrying costs).

 

But at the disclosed age of 67, no matter how willing the heart, it seems to me most prudent to sideline this debt if at all possible, even if it means starting over with a clean credit slate (bankruptcy).  I can't imagine any rationale to carry this albatross around BethM's neck under the circumstances described.  In my book, her circumstances are the precise ones for which bankruptcy provision were designed.

 

So, back to PotO's concern:  At the very least, I advise serious consideration be given to bankruptcy as a course of action and investigating all that's involved.  In the interim, seeking out a 0% bt card is advisable, but be scrupulously honest about your income and source.  In the event that you do file for bankruptcy protection, any misrepresentation of income when applying for a debt can "potentially" exclude that debt from inclusion in the bankruptcy.

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1 hour ago, hdporter said:

 

PotO's concern here is very relevant ...

 

...

 

In the event that you do file for bankruptcy protection, any misrepresentation of income when applying for a debt can "potentially" exclude that debt from inclusion in the bankruptcy.


I'd say a major concern is the felony she is committing by misrepresenting actual income and / or employment.  Granted, people lie all the time and getting caught is rare, but no sense it taking the risk.  Especially if bankruptcy is an option since you have to list employment and income.  
 

Can people in prison access CB?

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On 9/1/2020 at 1:05 PM, Debtsuccinylcholine said:

Empathy:  I've been where you are recently, and in fact I'm STILL battling debt.  Wait, that was in my post. 

 

Support: What worked for me was this... wait, that was in my post. 

 

I scratch the part about unemployment if that is what triggered the mod.  It was one of the biggest red flags I saw in the OP, but I suppose it was pointing out the obvious. 

 

Good luck BethM!  Seek tough love from within and go slay your debt your way!!!  Best wishes!

 

Edited to add: Sprinkling in more empathy and support just in case!

Hi :) 

 

If you don't agree with a moderator's action, please feel free to send a PM to one of the admins.  But in general, arguing with a moderator on the board itself, disrupting someone else's thread, isn't productive.  Remember that tone and inflection don't carry through on the written word, so while you might think your original response conveyed empathy and support, my reading of the post was exactly the same as Tee's.  That's my free advice for you, for the day.

 

Enjoy your holiday weekend.

 

 

 

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Since I didn't go into any GREAT detail regarding my situation, here is a bit:  I have run a children's nonprofit program - musical theatre - for 14 years.  I had to shut it down in March.  Since then I have cut bills drastically by 1. Moving - Saving $1500 a month over past rent 2. Lowered all bills - Elec, Gas, cut off home phone completely, lowered Cell bill, cut internet, Oh and by the way, I'm 67.  

I'm not complaining because I LOVED my work with the kids, however, the pay was not great.  I did get a disaster loan, and I am looking for new ways to offer alternative programs, so I'm not just sitting on my A**, so to speak.  

I've always been a hard worker, and I'm not afraid to work, however, at 67 I am afraid of contracting COVID. I have had 2 friends who got it thus far and another whose mother just died from it. 

I realize this is my situation and I am looking at every possible solution. 

I sincerely appreciate everyone's responses and will take each suggestion into consideration. 

 

With great gratitude for your thoughts and time, 

BethM

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I am getting confused.  People are suggesting the best course of action is Bankruptcy and then talking about committing a felony and Prison!  What?!  Maybe I am clueless but what felony?  Why am I now going to prison simply because I am in debt?  

 

Could it be that some of you have been on these chats for a while and there are things I don't understand?  If so, I would appreciate clarity. 

 

thanks again for your time and input, 

BethM

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3 hours ago, BethM said:

I am getting confused.  People are suggesting the best course of action is Bankruptcy and then talking about committing a felony and Prison!  What?!  Maybe I am clueless but what felony?  Why am I now going to prison simply because I am in debt?  

 

Could it be that some of you have been on these chats for a while and there are things I don't understand?  If so, I would appreciate clarity. 

 

thanks again for your time and input, 

BethM

You are not going to prison @BethM  

 

You do have an amount of debt that is unmanageable for someone who is unemployed however. This is most likely where the bankruptcy discussions are coming in. Bankruptcy is one option for you, but you cannot use your credit cards for "luxury goods" for more than $725 per creditor 90 days before you file for bankruptcy. You cannot get a cash advance from a card totaling $1000  from a single creditor for 70 days before filing. Those actions are considered fraud.

 

Of course all of that is open to legal interpretation and most of the things you would put on your card such as utilities, food, household goods are NOT considered "luxury" goods anyway. But why put yourself in that grey area? That is why applying for a balance transfer card would be advised against, if you are going to file for bankruptcy soon.

 

Other posters are talking about the information you would put on the credit card application to get approved. If you are unemployed, most cards are unlikely to approve you unless you lie about your income and employment which is also a fraud. 

 

I don't think you were suggesting you would lie. I just think you were exploring your options for managing your card payments. But the physics just aren't there. With no income and $60k of debt, you really do not have a lot of options other than Bankruptcy, forbearance or a structured payment plan of some sort.

 

The other reason people are advising you not to get another credit card, is that with that amount of debt and no income, you are just masking your problem. There is no way to pay off that debt with no money coming in. Balance transfers are not going to solve your debt problem.

 

Bankruptcy will be the only option that stops the interest building on your account and completely forgives all the debt. But if you file for bankruptcy, your trustee and creditors will look at your card activity for the months leading up to you filing for signs of "intent to fraud".  See above for what they mean by that.

 

Good luck on making a tough decision. :)

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6 hours ago, BethM said:

I am getting confused.  People are suggesting the best course of action is Bankruptcy and then talking about committing a felony and Prison!  What?!  Maybe I am clueless but what felony?  Why am I now going to prison simply because I am in debt?  

 

Could it be that some of you have been on these chats for a while and there are things I don't understand?  If so, I would appreciate clarity. 

 

thanks again for your time and input, 

BethM

 

@lgt525 gives a pretty good rundown of why bankruptcy MAY be an alternative to consider, as well as the implications if you should pursue that course.

 

Separately, a concern has been raised that in the event you seek a balance transfer card, that such a card MAY only be available through exaggeration of your current income (and potential consequences that MAY apply to such a misstatement have been noted ... although given the wide range of possible consequences, I wouldn't have worded things quite so direly as @PotO ... but that's his style). 

 

The suggestion of legal complications has been only cited in the latter case, not in conjunction with your existing debt or out of the possibility that you might choose to file bankruptcy.

 

Please understand that this is a discussion board.  Participation tends to occur with a varying range of viewpoint and tone.  It's incumbent upon you to glean that which is most appropriate and constructive and run with it, kicking the rest to the curb.  (And, just as you have here, it's VERY appropriate for you to question feedback to better grasp what's at hand.)

 

 

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8 hours ago, BethM said:

I am getting confused.  People are suggesting the best course of action is Bankruptcy and then talking about committing a felony and Prison!  What?!  Maybe I am clueless but what felony?  Why am I now going to prison simply because I am in debt?  

 

Could it be that some of you have been on these chats for a while and there are things I don't understand?  If so, I would appreciate clarity. 

 

thanks again for your time and input, 

BethM


There's a very good reason why it's always good to read everything in the thread.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 4:08 AM, BethM said:

My business is gone and I have been on unemployment for months.  ... get NEW 0% cards ...  so I thought they might give me a new card however I'm hesitant to try because if they don't it's another ding on the credit

 

16 hours ago, PotO said:

 

I'm just wondering ... what would you put for employment and income on an application for a new card?


There is no such thing in this country as a Bank of America credit card application that does not ask for "Employment Status", "Income" and "Source of Income".  Virtually every other bank is the same.  Your chances of getting a new credit card being unemployed and your source of income being unemployment insurance are precisely zero.  Even attempting that with Bank of America is a one-way ticket to getting them to nuke your existing account.  
 

And that is why I asked the question above.

 

If you lie on the application for a new credit card, that is a felony.  It's called wire fraud.  Now, many people here on CB have likely done it before and gotten away with it, but it's still a felony.  
 

It gets further complicated when you commit that felony and then file for bankruptcy.  On the documents you must fill out when you file, you have to list employment data and income.  Every creditor has access to those documents.  If you lied to obtain new credit and if you ultimately end up filing for bankruptcy, they can easily compare your credit application with the data on your bankruptcy documents and easily see, not to mention prove, the commission of wire fraud.  It could also, as @hdporter mentioned, make that debt non-dischargeable.  
 

So, that is why I asked the question above.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, hdporter said:

 

@lgt525 gives a pretty good rundown of why bankruptcy MAY be an alternative to consider, as well as the implications if you should pursue that course.

 

Separately, a concern has been raised that in the event you seek a balance transfer card, that such a card MAY only be available through exaggeration of your current income (and potential consequences that MAY apply to such a misstatement have been noted ... although given the wide range of possible consequences, I wouldn't have worded things quite so direly as @PotO ... but that's his style). 

 

The suggestion of legal complications has been only cited in the latter case, not in conjunction with your existing debt or out of the possibility that you might choose to file bankruptcy.

 

Please understand that this is a discussion board.  Participation tends to occur with a varying range of viewpoint and tone.  It's incumbent upon you to glean that which is most appropriate and constructive and run with it, kicking the rest to the curb.  (And, just as you have here, it's VERY appropriate for you to question feedback to better grasp what's at hand.)

 

 

So well said Hd.

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On 9/5/2020 at 10:54 PM, shifter said:

Not at all, so many problems here. Terrible advice. No trustee or judge would look at a 0% BT with even remote curiosity. Especially considering it's likely the individual would max out whatever cards they have before filing. Even if they didn't, the look back period for new debt is 90 days. Not to mention any claw back would be the creditor's problem, not the individual's. 

 

The new creditor will object to the dischargeability of the debt and allege fraud, arguing that she knew she wouldn't pay the debt back or she knew that there was a good chance it would never be paid back. Her employment situation does not help.  Any reference to a specific number of days in the Bankruptcy Code is only the time frame in which a presumption of fraud exists. A creditor can go back further in time to argue/prove fraud and that would almost certainly happen if we're talking about large sums of money.  There is an excellent chance she would lose that issue and effectively transfer what was a dischargeable debt into a non-dischargeable debt.  The balance transfer approach only is feasible if bankruptcy is off the table. 

 

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On 9/5/2020 at 10:54 PM, shifter said:

Not at all, so many problems here. Terrible advice. No trustee or judge would look at a 0% BT with even remote curiosity. Especially considering it's likely the individual would max out whatever cards they have before filing. Even if they didn't, the look back period for new debt is 90 days. Not to mention any claw back would be the creditor's problem, not the individual's. 

P.S. Intentionally maxing out credit cards shortly before a bankruptcy or during a period when you know you can't repay the debt is fraud. It's called a bust out. They do look for that. See my other comments about the time period issue.

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See if you qualify for unemployment under the CARES Act. Many people that were not eligible for traditional unemployment were able to get money.  I can't advise you to take on new debt or continue using credit cards when you know you don't have the money to pay them. If you have continued to live off the cards, I would not file bankruptcy any time soon either or you will create many new problems for yourself.

 

"The purchase of goods with a credit card constitutes an implied representation by the purchaser that he has both the means and intent to repay for the goods purchased." AT&T Universal Card Servs. v. Ramirez, 184 B.R. 859, 861 (Bankr. S.D. Fla. 1995); Household Credit Servs. v. Walters, 208 B.R. 651, 653 (Bankr. W.D. La. 1997) (use of card is representation that consumer has intent and present ability to make payment); see also Norwest Bank (Des Moines, N.A.) Card Servs. Div. v. Stewart, 91 B.R. 489 (Bankr. S.D. Iowa 1988), citing Comerica Bank Midwest v. Kouloumbris, 69 B.R. 229 (N.D. Ill. 1986); In re Buford, 25 B.R. 477 (Bankr. S.D.N.Y. 1982). "If evidence indicated that the cardholder should have known that the charges cannot be paid, the creditor has established a claim of nondischargeability." AT & T Universal Card Servs. v. Ramirez, 184 B.R. 859, 861 (Bankr. S.D. Fla. 1995).  

 

P.S. How much unsecured debt (credit cards, medical bills, etc.) and secured debt (mortgages, car payments, etc.) do you have? What is your normal income?

Edited by CreditCurious20
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9 hours ago, CreditCurious20 said:

The new creditor will object to the dischargeability of the debt and allege fraud, arguing that she knew she wouldn't pay the debt back or she knew that there was a good chance it would never be paid back.

This is all theoretical. In reality it's very unlikely. Depends on the time frame and amount, but big credit card companies have little to no interest in spending good money chasing after bad in BK cases. Most of the time they write it off instantly without a second look. 

 

9 hours ago, CreditCurious20 said:

P.S. Intentionally maxing out credit cards shortly before a bankruptcy or during a period when you know you can't repay the debt is fraud. It's called a bust out. They do look for that. See my other comments about the time period issue.

No one is talking about intentional bust out. Most BK situations people are trying their best to make it out and don't file until they reach the end of their rope. That usually means they ran out of available credit before their financial situation improved. 

 

Your advice is bad not because it's patently incorrect, but because it's theoretical and generic and not applied to this individual situation the way that an actual creditor, trustee or judge would look at it in real life. 

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