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Chase closed all 11 of my credit cards with them !!

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Posted (edited)

Greetings,

 

I recently had 11 Chase credit cards closed. Seven were personal, and four were business cards. The combined lines were 186k. The balances on them were 211k. My overall utilization was 55% and overall credit lines were 474k. The credit scores at the time were around 700 each, and average age of accounts was 10 years. I had 22 total accounts.  I was paying close to $3k in interest monthly. A few days before the closures, I added four authorized users on three of the cards. I assume this may have triggered it. In total, I have spent over $15,000,000 on Chase cards in the last 10 years.

 

In summary:

-My total open accounts went from 22 to 11.

-My average age of accounts went from 10 years to 6 years.

 

 

These are my questions:

 

1.      What would be the reasons why an institution such as Chase would take would such drastic measures without first discussing any possible issues directly with the customer?

 

2.      Are there any state or federal regulations that banks need to follow when terminating relationships?

 

3.      If banks do use rules and guidelines, are these rules and guidelines internal or can they be known by the public?

 

4.      If the rules are internal, is there any state or federal regulatory agency that reviews the rules to make sure they are legal?

 

5.      If there is, how can the public know that the government agencies are actually doing their job?

 

6.      Has any of you had something similar happen to you?

 

 

Any answers, tips, or comments are greatly appreciated.

Edited by AlexR

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5 hours ago, AlexR said:

-My average age of accounts went from 10 years to 6 years.

AAoA includes closed accounts.

 

The right to close an account belongs to both the issuer and the card holder.  If you decided to close all 11 accounts, which government agency would you recommend Chase contact in order to force you to keep the accounts open and active?

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Well the Economy is forcing banks to cut on exposure and since you are already using their cards to the fullest, and adding AU's triggered this action.

 

You can call EO and plead your case and show them you are capable of paying it back and you were a good customer with a big spending and paying habits, may be.. I say May be.. they will reopen a few cards.. but highly unlikely in this environment.

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Were these AU's persons who resided with you or were they people you recruited to help with manufactured spending?  Chase has long made it known they had little tolerance for M$.

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Don't worry, you're still paying that 3k/mo in interest even though the accounts are now closed. 

 

Why would you add AUs to maxed out cards anyway? 

 

There is no government entity that's going to help you here. The best thing you can do is help yourself. 

 

Do you bank with Chase for your business? Start with your branch banker or branch manager.

 

Do you bank personally with Chase? Go to your Private Client relationship manager.

 

Contact the EO on the phone if they are answering now. I wasn't able to get ahold of them a month or so ago. Be polite and discuss with them why you have been a good, reliable client for 10 years. 

 

Send an email to various C level executives. Be polite and brief and ask for their assistance. 

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2 hours ago, cv91915 said:

AAoA includes closed accounts.

2 hours ago, cv91915 said:

AAoA includes closed accounts.

 

The right to close an account belongs to both the issuer and the card holder.  If you decided to close all 11 accounts, which government agency would you recommend Chase contact in order to force you to keep the accounts open and active?

The right to close an account belongs to both the issuer and the card holder.  If you decided to close all 11 accounts, which government agency would you recommend Chase contact in order to force you to keep the accounts open and active?

That right is there, but just because it is their right to do it, does not make it right. My wife may have the right to divorce me without any reason, but it would not seem "right" if she does. If there was a reason, her action would seem more right. Same concept with banks. They program algorithms that take actions that may not be optimal in all situations, meaning they are prone to error. If an algorithm says there is a 99.5% chance you are a pedophile based on gathered statistics, and then you cannot be allowed to part-take in a society like normal people can, you would feel offended right? Sure, it is each person's right to deny you into their home, and it is each business's right to deny service to you, but is it truly right if you yourself know there is a 0% chance you are a pedohile. This is an extreme example, but banks have already begun to use data-mining to deny credit to people for very strange reasons.

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1 hour ago, Krish said:

Well the Economy is forcing banks to cut on exposure and since you are already using their cards to the fullest, and adding AU's triggered this action.

 

You can call EO and plead your case and show them you are capable of paying it back and you were a good customer with a big spending and paying habits, may be.. I say May be.. they will reopen a few cards.. but highly unlikely in this environment.

I will most certainly try this. Thanks!

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29 minutes ago, AlexR said:

That right is there, but just because it is their right to do it, does not make it right. My wife may have the right to divorce me without any reason, but it would not seem "right" if she does. If there was a reason, her action would seem more right. Same concept with banks. They program algorithms that take actions that may not be optimal in all situations, meaning they are prone to error. If an algorithm says there is a 99.5% chance you are a pedophile based on gathered statistics, and then you cannot be allowed to part-take in a society like normal people can, you would feel offended right? Sure, it is each person's right to deny you into their home, and it is each business's right to deny service to you, but is it truly right if you yourself know there is a 0% chance you are a pedohile. This is an extreme example, but banks have already begun to use data-mining to deny credit to people for very strange reasons.

First, you do understand that Chase has been known to do these types of things for years. They do close people's accounts because they find an old felony from 20 years ago and stuff like that. So this should not surprise you.

 

Second, I think your own view of yourself is rather skewed. Looking at the data you posted, you are a huge risk of loss to their bank. Maxed out cards, huge amount of debt, making min payments each month. This isn't about anecdotal information about pedophilia, this is hard evidence of financial stress. That is the definition of a large risk. And we don't even know anything about the $15M you've spent in the past 10 years or what you are using this credit for currently. It may be an even higher risk based on that data.

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49 minutes ago, centex said:

Were these AU's persons who resided with you or were they people you recruited to help with manufactured spending?  Chase has long made it known they had little tolerance for M$.

I added the AU so that they would have the cards incase they purchased anything for the company. Had no intentions of increasing spending with M$ since 99.9%+ of our spending is done by me for inventory. Adding AU to get 1%-2% cash back for .1% or out total revenue is by no means practical or even worth spending time on.

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29 minutes ago, shifter said:

First, you do understand that Chase has been known to do these types of things for years. They do close people's accounts because they find an old felony from 20 years ago and stuff like that. So this should not surprise you.

 

Second, I think your own view of yourself is rather skewed. Looking at the data you posted, you are a huge risk of loss to their bank. Maxed out cards, huge amount of debt, making min payments each month. This isn't about anecdotal information about pedophilia, this is hard evidence of financial stress. That is the definition of a large risk. And we don't even know anything about the $15M you've spent in the past 10 years or what you are using this credit for currently. It may be an even higher risk based on that data.

 

31 minutes ago, shifter said:

First, you do understand that Chase has been known to do these types of things for years. They do close people's accounts because they find an old felony from 20 years ago and stuff like that. So this should not surprise you.

 

Second, I think your own view of yourself is rather skewed. Looking at the data you posted, you are a huge risk of loss to their bank. Maxed out cards, huge amount of debt, making min payments each month. This isn't about anecdotal information about pedophilia, this is hard evidence of financial stress. That is the definition of a large risk. And we don't even know anything about the $15M you've spent in the past 10 years or what you are using this credit for currently. It may be an even higher risk based on that data.

Although debt rates and risk could be correlational for groups, when analyzing individual cases, it does not mean that every person with high debt, is a high risk. There is always exceptions to the rule. Our company generated with just swipe fees enough money to pay for 1-2 bankers' saleries for a whole year. How can it not beneficial for a bank such as Chase to find a system to not let this sort of revenue vanish from their balance sheets? If it happened to me, chances are it happened to thousands just like me. So do the math. 1000 (people) * $100,000 (salary) is $100,000,000. Bank is losing 100M if these are the numbers. What would it take for them not to lose this revenue?? Wouldn't 3-4 experienced underwriters dedicating 1 day to review each client be enough for each 1000 cases per year? Even is the salary of the underwriters is 250k each, it would mean that 99% of that 100M could be salvaged. I may be wrong, but just consider my theory. 

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Are you just here to complain about the injustices of the banking system or to work on a solution to your current situation? It sounds like the former.

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34 minutes ago, hegemony said:

why were you running such high utilization? given the current economic times, high utilization will scare a lot of banks

I did not think they would shutdown a customer that I believed was quite valuable to them without a proper review. 

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26 minutes ago, AlexR said:

I did not think they would shutdown a customer that I believed was quite valuable to them without a proper review. 

Then you have NOT paid attention to banking environments and signals since the 2007-2008 fiascos...

 

There are PLENTY of reasons that raise the risk flag.  And no, they are not going to tell you that you are being risky because they would be encouraging an ill-minded person to run the account up and then walk it. 

 

You have expended far too much emotion on something that is, at the most basic level, just business.  Without my knowing what your business is, Chase has deemed YOU as a risk.  Whether it is what your business might be, or whether it was the excess utilization (55% is just insane), or whether it was adding AU's in the current climate, the reality is they decided they did not want to do business with you.

 

As others noted, you COULD try to get your Private Client contact (presuming you actually BANK with Chase) to go to bat for you...but even that has no assurance of getting accounts restored. 

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33 minutes ago, centex said:

Then you have NOT paid attention to banking environments and signals since the 2007-2008 fiascos...

 

There are PLENTY of reasons that raise the risk flag.  And no, they are not going to tell you that you are being risky because they would be encouraging an ill-minded person to run the account up and then walk it. 

 

You have expended far too much emotion on something that is, at the most basic level, just business.  Without my knowing what your business is, Chase has deemed YOU as a risk.  Whether it is what your business might be, or whether it was the excess utilization (55% is just insane), or whether it was adding AU's in the current climate, the reality is they decided they did not want to do business with you.

 

As others noted, you COULD try to get your Private Client contact (presuming you actually BANK with Chase) to go to bat for you...but even that has no assurance of getting accounts restored. 

I would love to find out how I am a risk. Then, I would know there is a problem with me and not the rest of the world. I would feel very relieved. 🙂

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28 minutes ago, hegemony said:

at the kiddie pool site you said chase wants you to talk to the fraud department. what did the fraud folks say?

I was told it may be better to go speak with someone in person. Maybe it would be a good idea to go directly to Chase headquarters in NYC. 

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25 minutes ago, AlexR said:

I would love to find out how I am a risk. Then, I would know there is a problem with me and not the rest of the world. I would feel very relieved. 🙂

1) your balances were higher than your limits; overall utilization matters little to chase when you run 110% on its cards and fail to PIF NPSL cards you run over-limit

2) you were adding AUs -- were these being added to the biz or the personal cards and are these people relatives in the same household? you said you added 4 people to 3 cards so the 4 were added to ALL 3?

3) paying interest is not a positive risk indicator for a card issuer -- card issuers try to balance risk of default against profit modeling

4) $15M over 10 years is nothing to a bank like Chase. $15M in a month might get you some attention.

5) do you have amex personal or biz cards? I wonder how a FR will go if you get on Amex's radar.

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26 minutes ago, AlexR said:

I was told it may be better to go speak with someone in person. Maybe it would be a good idea to go directly to Chase headquarters in NYC. 

In my experience, retail "bankers" even CPC branded will end up calling the card and/or fraud departments. They have no authority to do anything about actions taken by card services and fraud mitigation services. but good luck and please let us know how it goes.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, hegemony said:

1) your balances were higher than your limits; overall utilization matters little to chase when you run 110% on its cards and fail to PIF NPSL cards you run over-limit

2) you were adding AUs -- were these being added to the biz or the personal cards and are these people relatives in the same household? you said you added 4 people to 3 cards so the 4 were added to ALL 3?

3) paying interest is not a positive risk indicator for a card issuer -- card issuers try to balance risk of default against profit modeling

4) $15M over 10 years is nothing to a bank like Chase. $15M in a month might get you some attention.

5) do you have amex personal or biz cards? I wonder how a FR will go if you get on Amex's radar.

2) you were adding AUs -- were these being added to the biz or the personal cards and are these people relatives in the same household? (Yes) you said you added 4 people to 3 cards so the 4 were added to ALL 3? (Yes)

3) paying interest is not a positive risk indicator for a card issuer -- card issuers try to balance risk of default against profit modeling

4) $15M over 10 years is nothing to a bank like Chase. $15M in a month might get you some attention.

5) do you have amex personal or biz cards? I wonder how a FR will go if you get on Amex's radar. Have a few Amex. Refused all FR for higher limit. Limit peaked at around 500k. Stopped using AmEx because I got tired of their unprofessionalism and low cash-back.

 

I wonder why nobody has figured out how to cut out the banks, fund their own credit cards and get the full swipe fee, minus Visa's cut.

Edited by AlexR

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1 hour ago, AlexR said:

I wonder why nobody has figured out how to cut out the banks, fund their own credit cards and get the full swipe fee, minus Visa's cut.

They DO know how to do that but MOST with that sort of money decide that the hassles and fees of becoming a regulated financial institution make it FAR less expensive to stick with the institutions who ALREADY have those costs and processes baked into the operations. 

 

Money laundering entities tend not to like the direct accounting oversight. 

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For the amount of money you are spending it seems like a corporate card program may be your best bet. Most banks do not like business spend on personal cards and being above your limits across all accounts with them in the middle of a pandemic is a huge red flag.

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12 hours ago, AlexR said:

Greetings,

 

I recently had 11 Chase credit cards closed. Seven were personal, and four were business cards. The combined lines were 186k. The balances on them were 211k. My overall utilization was 55% and overall credit lines were 474k. The credit scores at the time were around 700 each, and average age of accounts was 10 years. I had 22 total accounts.  I was paying close to $3k in interest monthly. A few days before the closures, I added four authorized users on three of the cards. I assume this may have triggered it. In total, I have spent over $15,000,000 on Chase cards in the last 10 years.

I'm surprised your credit scores are "around 700"  FICO scores with the kind of util you have, especially with 1 or more maxed cards which is implied by your Chase specific balances and CLs, would normally be around 660-680. In any case below average.

3 hours ago, hegemony said:

1) your balances were higher than your limits; overall utilization matters little to chase when you run 110% on its cards and fail to PIF NPSL cards you run over-limit.

Right. That would be an issue even without the Covid economic impact. And a business that pays 3k/mo in interest at high APRs is not typical of those highly solvent and able to withstand downturns.

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6 hours ago, AlexR said:

 

Although debt rates and risk could be correlational for groups, when analyzing individual cases, it does not mean that every person with high debt, is a high risk. There is always exceptions to the rule. Our company generated with just swipe fees enough money to pay for 1-2 bankers' saleries for a whole year. How can it not beneficial for a bank such as Chase to find a system to not let this sort of revenue vanish from their balance sheets? If it happened to me, chances are it happened to thousands just like me. So do the math. 1000 (people) * $100,000 (salary) is $100,000,000. Bank is losing 100M if these are the numbers. What would it take for them not to lose this revenue?? Wouldn't 3-4 experienced underwriters dedicating 1 day to review each client be enough for each 1000 cases per year? Even is the salary of the underwriters is 250k each, it would mean that 99% of that 100M could be salvaged. I may be wrong, but just consider my theory. 

Presumably, if Chase saw it that way or believed this form of profit outweighed exposure, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

6 hours ago, hegemony said:

at the kiddie pool site you said chase wants you to talk to the fraud department. what did the fraud folks say?

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4 hours ago, tomforr said:

For the amount of money you are spending it seems like a corporate card program may be your best bet. Most banks do not like business spend on personal cards and being above your limits across all accounts with them in the middle of a pandemic is a huge red flag.

Agree. During these pandemic times, staying under the radar is best. That is, no high balances, paying balances off quickly, and no unusual activity that could raise a red flag. 

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