Citi - CLI Denial/Due to TU "credit score"(Range 1-2500)

[MP80]

4 hours ago, hegemony said:

well I think the score is similar to the myfuko resiliency score which has me as "sensitive" since I have no installment loans. the fact they cite old data in verbal conversations is a separate issue.

 

I've been culling cards anyway the past year or so and citi products just are not competitive for my spending pattern.

 

 

Yeah, it's a problem. Creditors view the lack of installment loan as a potential Bust-Out scenario on an individual profile. Plus, losing 15-25 points on a FICO scoring factor. 

[PotO]

Every major bank is skeptical that anomalous individuals with large credit card portfolios can build large credit exposures. Citibank refuses to take more risks to the outlier customer. They are using an abnormal device scoring system to reject your credit limit increase request. They should not use outdated materials to determine your credibility. This violates FCRA. 

I doubt it. I have virtually never had a bank hold my "large credit card portfolio" against me. Usually its only credit unions, and even then not all.

What Citi is doing with Hedge is holding his already significant Citi exposure against him and pulling excuses out of their butt to do so. I've got around $200k with Citi and even if I include my wife's income when asking for a CLI, Citi pulls harebrained excuses out of their arse to deny me. The latest was too many inquiries. For Citi "too many" equals precisely one INQ from 19 months ago.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PotO]

Yeah, it's a problem. Creditors view the lack of installment loan as a potential Bust-Out scenario on an individual profile. Plus, losing 15-25 points on a FICO scoring factor. 

I also doubt that. Even when I don't have an active loan, I have no problems.

And you do not lose 15 - 25 points with FICO. You are equating the math from the Installment Loan Hack as a score decrease. What does happen is you gain around 20 points when the loan is paid off to approximately 80%, but when paid off they claw back all but about 3 points. You end up with a net gain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MP80]

Hey pot, welcome back!  

 

I still believe what I said in the above post. You see, in this case, the big bank (Citibank) provided Hege with a credit of $100,000, mainly considering the maximum credit limit of individuals, such as Bank of America, Chase Bank, etc.

 

Now, I know that the risk exposure of a small number of people exceeds the threshold of 100,000 US dollars, but this is rare, and it is a conditional issue related to the personal assets and wealth that the bank knows.

 

But, in Hege's own words, it makes no sense if you try to combine and contextualizes these points with the reasons cited by Citibank...

 

Hege's statement...

"The Citi people simply can see my old (BK) history and cite that when I talk to them."

 

"Seems strange that if my internal risk score is so low they'd let me have 100K in limits."

 

"I currently have the FDIC max on deposit with CITI."

[MP80]

5 hours ago, PotO said:

I also doubt that. Even when I don't have an active loan, I have no problems.

And you do not lose 15 - 25 points with FICO. You are equating the math from the Installment Loan Hack as a score decrease. What does happen is you gain around 20 points when the loan is paid off to approximately 80%, but when paid off they claw back all but about 3 points. You end up with a net gain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You yourself saying it's a negative reporting factor with that installment tradeline missing.

 

The bottom line to any person's perception is an unfair determining measurement.

 

Hege and my credit report did not have any installment report, but we still exceeded 800 points. I barely passed it myself, sometimes at 798+... 

 

Hege definitely doesn't need that loan hacks, but I do for cushion.

[PotO]

Hey pot, welcome back!  

 

I still believe what I said in the above post. You see, in this case, the big bank (Citibank) provided Hege with a credit of $100,000, mainly considering the maximum credit limit of individuals, such as Bank of America, Chase Bank, etc.

 

Now, I know that the risk exposure of a small number of people exceeds the threshold of 100,000 US dollars, but this is rare, and it is a conditional issue related to the personal assets and wealth that the bank knows.

 

But, in Hege's own words, it makes no sense if you try to combine and contextualizes these points with the reasons cited by Citibank...

 

Hege's statement...

 

"The Citi people simply can see my old (BK) history and cite that when I talk to them."

 

"Seems strange that if my internal risk score is so low they'd let me have 100K in limits."

 

"I currently have the FDIC max on deposit with CITI."

 

What you state is irrelevant.

 

Citi and also, at times, almost every other bank will cite nonsensical reasons for not granting CLIs. Perhaps your experience is extremely limited and you have yet to experience this.

 

$100,000 credit limits with any particular bank is not rare. I have several. Hege may also have that same exposure with others banks or credit unions. Just because YOU don't have it doesn't mean its rare.

 

What Citi is doing is basically telling Hege that he's at maximum exposure without revealing their actual maximum exposure calculations. They've done it with me citing "too many inquires".

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PotO]

You yourself saying it's a negative reporting factor with that installment tradeline missing.
 
The bottom line to any person's perception is an unfair determining measurement.
 
Hege and my credit report did not have any installment report, but we still exceeded 800 points. I barely passed it myself, sometimes at 798+... 
 
Hege definitely doesn't need that loan hacks, but I do for cushion.

What you said is that "Creditors view the lack of installment loan as a potential Bust-Out scenario." This is generally false. There are few, if any, reputable credit card issuers who will deny someone with a solid history and few new accounts simply because one doesn't have an active installment loan. If any give you that reason it's simply machine-generated b.s. Where you may see something like that is with crap credit cards like Petal and other WebBank trash.

You also said that you lose 15 - 25 points for not having an active installment loan. Math is a necessary skill these days. You do not lose 15+ points for not having an installment loan. You get a net gain for a closed installment loan. You get a gift for handling your loan well, but after the tradeline is closed they take back all but a few points. There is a net gain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hdporter]

Let me preface by saying "I don't have a dog in this hunt".  My highest credit line is $40k, by choice.   So if someone doesn't agree (or like) my comment here, just disregard.

 

That said, it seems that the "elephant in the room" has been overlooked.  I don't know the utilization history of these large lines by some of those involved in this discussion, but since I presume ample resources and revolving credit typically is one of the least attractive credit vehicles, I'm going to guess that the existing lines go largely untapped the majority of the time. 

 

Now, don't get me wrong ... I'll freely admit that if someone is putting through $20k in monthly charges on a $100 k line, a bank would have to be insane not to do their damnedest to accede to a CLI request from the account holder.

 

But if the average monthly charge volume averages something like $5k, I wouldn't be surprised if a bank declined a CLI request ... even if there's an occasional month with $40k in purchases.  The existing line fully supports that charge activity and given recent greater default risk (generally speaking), I might expect a bank to act conservatively in this situation.

 

That's my take; take with a grain of salt.  It's every bit as speculative as some of MP80 statements that I disagree with (we're both entitled to that).

[CTSoxFan]

20 hours ago, hegemony said:

just to follow-up... I hit a brick wall with Citi and the complaints. I'm guessing this is some "resiliency" type score and the Citi people simple can see my old (BK) history and cite that when I talk to them. FWIW, I'm done with Citi. closed citigold, closed prestige, and will close premier when AF comes up again.

Hege I have a similar experience with Citi.  BK almost 20 years ago, and now have 3 cards with just north of $100k in combined limits, however I never get any offers for BTs or any other credit products.  Meanwhile DW gets a BT offer in the mail on her Citi cards at least once a month.  I have tried calling to ask why and they just say there are no offers available, but I know it was because of the past BK.

 

All my Citi cards are no AF cards, so I am not going to close them, but other than using the Costco card for gas when it isn't a bonus quarter on Freedom/Disco I won't be buying more than a small purchase every few months to keep them active.

[PotO]

Let me preface by saying "I don't have a dog in this hunt".  My highest credit line is $40k, by choice.   So if someone doesn't agree (or like) my comment here, just disregard.
 
That said, it seems that the "elephant in the room" has been overlooked.  I don't know the utilization history of these large lines by some of those involved in this discussion, but since I presume ample resources and revolving credit typically is one of the least attractive credit vehicles, I'm going to guess that the existing lines go largely untapped the majority of the time. 
 
Now, don't get me wrong ... I'll freely admit that if someone is putting through $20k in monthly charges on a $100 k line, a bank would have to be insane not to do their damnedest to accede to a CLI request from the account holder.
 
But if the average monthly charge volume averages something like $5k, I wouldn't be surprised if a bank declined a CLI request ... even if there's an occasional month with $40k in purchases.  The existing line fully supports that charge activity and given recent greater default risk (generally speaking), I might expect a bank to act conservatively in this situation.
 
That's my take; take with a grain of salt.  It's every bit as speculative as some of MP80 statements that I disagree with (we're both entitled to that).

I are totally correct about utilization about the credit lines. Citi tends to look at usage more closely the more you have with them.

Any time I request a CLI on my Citi DC the top three revolving excuses they give me are:

1. Not enough use of existing lines;
2. Combined limits on all Citi products (Macy's, Shell and Citi) are too high; and
3. Excessive inquiries.

At least the first two are not b.s. so I'll give them that. I also one time got the same b.s. reason that Hege got. They pulled some internal skore and said I had bad credit or something else equally absurd.

When they cited excessive inquiries my one and only inquiry was 17 months old.

Citi often just pulls b.s. reasons out of their arse instead of just coming out and saying that they ain't gonna give you any more so bugger off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PotO]

Hege I have a similar experience with Citi.  BK almost 20 years ago, and now have 3 cards with just north of $100k in combined limits, however I never get any offers for BTs or any other credit products.  Meanwhile DW gets a BT offer in the mail on her Citi cards at least once a month.  I have tried calling to ask why and they just say there are no offers available, but I know it was because of the past BK.
 
All my Citi cards are no AF cards, so I am not going to close them, but other than using the Costco card for gas when it isn't a bonus quarter on Freedom/Disco I won't be buying more than a small purchase every few months to keep them active.

I also agree with you. As much as Citi has clammed up and won't gime me another dime of credit limit, they do give me offers all the time.

I seem to recall that there are other issuers that hold a grudge for a long, long, long time. Chase, IIRC.

Since they are no AF and you have a decent total limit, I would just suck it up and maintain the status quo. But that's just me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hdporter]

7 hours ago, PotO said:

 

I are totally correct about utilization about the credit lines. Citi tends to look at usage more closely the more you have with them.

Any time I request a CLI on my Citi DC the top three revolving excuses they give me are:

1. Not enough use of existing lines;
2. Combined limits on all Citi products (Macy's, Shell and Citi) are too high; and
3. Excessive inquiries.

At least the first two are not b.s. so I'll give them that. I also one time got the same b.s. reason that Hege got. They pulled some internal skore and said I had bad credit or something else equally absurd.

When they cited excessive inquiries my one and only inquiry was 17 months old.

Citi often just pulls b.s. reasons out of their arse instead of just coming out and saying that they ain't gonna give you any more so bugger off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I agree that this is Citi's "bad" when it comes to messaging.    My guess is we're not looking at the three key reasons for their denial.  Instead, these are the three largest negative factors that came into play (where the "inquiries" had about as much impact as a dead fly on a butcher's scale).

 

If they had any wits, they'd list only factors of significant consequence.   Instead, they've programmed the system to identify exactly 3 factors, even if one or more are nits.

[CTSoxFan]

7 hours ago, PotO said:

 

I also agree with you. As much as Citi has clammed up and won't gime me another dime of credit limit, they do give me offers all the time.

I seem to recall that there are other issuers that hold a grudge for a long, long, long time. Chase, IIRC.

Since they are no AF and you have a decent total limit, I would just suck it up and maintain the status quo. But that's just me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Exactly my plan.  No reason to close anything.

[MP80]

I'm not going to make a quotation here. 

 

But to add to HD friendly encapsulated observations in a different perspective, that is "we agree to disagree."

 

Now, the content of the $100,000 line of credit approved by the bank is based on the large use proportion of the existing line of credit. Use the percentage of your credit limit to determine the factors that provide you with a higher credit limit. (Not completely correct) In any case, the partnership history with the bank is a key issue in approving high credit lines. Not the proportion used of the existing line of credit. (According to my experience)  

[althes]

I have to totally agree with you guys.

I had some issues with over 100k more than 10 yrs go.

No BK or Suit.

Now that everything is off my credit report I have 100k in citi retail.

I can't get back into Citi core ever again.

I even have a couple of citi bus gas cards, but I can't get staples or HD or Office Depot.

 

[PotO]

 
 
I agree that this is Citi's "bad" when it comes to messaging.    My guess is we're not looking at the three key reasons for their denial.  Instead, these are the three largest negative factors that came into play (where the "inquiries" had about as much impact as a dead fly on a butcher's scale).
 
If they had any wits, they'd list only factors of significant consequence.   Instead, they've programmed the system to identify exactly 3 factors, even if one or more are nits.

You are, of course, correct.

Unfortunately, it isn't only Citi that likes to regurgitate the negative factors influencing your credit score instead of actually telling you why they can't give you a CLI.

One of these days when I am bored and have time I might take them to task on that, but for now I'm content knowing I have an end-of-game plan that leaves them seriously FITA.

[hdporter]

6 hours ago, PotO said:

One of these days when I am bored and have time I might take them to task on that, but for now I'm content knowing I have an end-of-game plan that leaves them seriously FITA.

 

Normally, I would suggest that creditor revenge strategies are largely self-defeating.  However, after Citi made me grovel a couple of weeks ago for a $2k Best Buy card line ... "Can I watch??" 

[PotO]

 
Normally, I would suggest that creditor revenge strategies are largely self-defeating.  However, after Citi made me grovel a couple of weeks ago for a $2k Best Buy card line ... "Can I watch??" 

I'll definitely make a pre-execution post when the plan is to go into effect. It might be a while though.

In all fairness, I have been selective in deciding which of many issuers get FITA. Not all have been bad and of those that have been, not all have pissed me off as much as Citi and a few others. But it's ok. Don't get mad. Get even.