Citi - CLI Denial/Due to TU "credit score"(Range 1-2500)

[Rogue]

So I have been consistently hitting the Citibank CLI button every six months for about three years.  Always an instant approval between $2K - $5K, no problems ever.  All FICO 8 Scores are currently and have been 800+ and as most of you know, Citibank provides a free Equifax FICO 8/Bankcard Score on a monthly basis. 

 

Every time I request an Citibank CLI there is always this favorable message:
"We will not obtain a credit bureau report to evaluate your request, and you will receive a decision instantly."

 

However I recently got a big fat instant NO with my last CLI request, with a declination letter to follow and today I received the letter, LOL! In the letter Citibank states that they pulled TU which is a new one for me as it has always been EX, but I don't really care. Now to quote:

 

"We used a credit scoring system in our review, which assigns a numerical value to different items on your credit report. The resulting score wasn't high enough to approve an increase"

 

I read that a few times going Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Starting thinking this must be some internal or proprietary Citibank score...NO! The score came from TU!

 

"The consumer reporting agency listed above (TU) also provided us with your credit score of 926 which we used in making our decision. Your credit score is a number that reflects the information in your consumer report and can change as the information in your report changes. Credit scores can range from 1 to 2500 - the higher the score the better."

 

Well my TU report was fine and is still fine! The key factors listed as adversely affecting my score:

 

1) "There are too many recent increases in balance on revolving accounts."

 

I typically PIF prior to statement cutting, sometimes not and a balance will occasionally report, but it still gets PIF and I pay no interest charges.  This is never a factor in my FICO Scores and there are no issues with utilization.  I don't play the $2/trick and sometimes get all zeroed out, but usually there is a revolving balance reporting somewhere.  So for me, going from no balances to four balances briefly reporting could be considered "increases" by whatever scoring model this is.

 

2) "Your credit report shows too many inquiries."

 

LOL! I blame this on Hege, he said inquiries don't matter! This is such a total joke for this scoring model, I have exactly two 23 month old INQ's on TU and as we all know, FICO stopped scoring them almost a year ago and they are about to completely drop off anyway! And this TU "scoring model" factors these? LOL!

 

3) "Months since most recently delinquency is too short."

 

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot again! First, I have never had any delinquencies, there are none on my TU report which is also currently reporting an 800+ FICO Score which would not even be close to happening if there was any type of delinquency reported!  The other irony here is that it appears that my INQ's are a bigger factor than my "delinquency" LOL!

 

So to the CB collective brain trust, has anybody heard of this TU "credit score" with a range of 1 to 2500? As always, thanks for you input and enjoy the weekend!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Rogue

[hdporter]

Well you emboldened me.  I've been itching to pull the trigger on my Citi DC.  I was denied for a CLI in Dec due to outstanding debt obligations (bugaboo of 2 houses/2 mortgages for now).  Had intended to wait until we sell and refi.  But I can't stave off curiosity lately, especially where a CLI request is pretty much "no harm, no foul". 

 

Declined again, with letter to follow.  Citi offered to re-evaluate with a hard pull (I refused).  I'll post back when the mail arrives ...

 

But, in answer to your question, the TU score scale of 1-2500 is a new one on me.  A google didn't surface anything either.  There's at least one reference to this Citi/TU score on the "other white meat" board, in reference to a recent letter informing the cardholder of a CLD.

[CTSoxFan]

I applied for a Citi CLI a couple of months ago on my Costco Visa.  Whenever I had tried to get an increase, they always said you're at the max we can approve without pulling a report.  So I finally gave them the go ahead and they declined saying I was at max for my income (I do have over $100K in CL with them that I barely use).  They pulled EX for me on that one and it was a fairly normal scale IIRC.  The 1-2500 must be some new internal scoring mechanism.

[shifter]

I'm going to be hitting the luv button next month so we'll see how it goes. 

[centex]

Wonder if that score is the TU equivalent of the 'resilience' score from another thread...that one seemed to be the EQ version of the EX Bust-Out score model.

[Debtsuccinylcholine]

Where is this button to click to request a CLI on the Citi site?  Thx.

[Rogue]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 2:57 AM, hdporter said:

Well you emboldened me.  I've been itching to pull the trigger on my Citi DC.  I was denied for a CLI in Dec due to outstanding debt obligations (bugaboo of 2 houses/2 mortgages for now).  Had intended to wait until we sell and refi.  But I can't stave off curiosity lately, especially where a CLI request is pretty much "no harm, no foul". 

 

Declined again, with letter to follow.  Citi offered to re-evaluate with a hard pull (I refused).  I'll post back when the mail arrives ...

 

But, in answer to your question, the TU score scale of 1-2500 is a new one on me.  A google didn't surface anything either.  There's at least one reference to this Citi/TU score on the "other white meat" board, in reference to a recent letter informing the cardholder of a CLD.

Sorry about the denial, however I think that is the current flavor of the season during this shutdown! Please report back as to what Citi states in their letter. 

 

I did a cursory search on this crazy TU "credit score" with the 1-2500 range and didn't find anything, however I did not go over to the FAKO Forums, that place typically gives me a headache and lowers my IQ by a few points....

Edited June 15, 2020 by Rogue

[Rogue]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 6:19 AM, CTSoxFan said:

The 1-2500 must be some new internal scoring mechanism.

NOPE! The Citi letter clearly states this "credit score" came from TransUnion......

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 11:20 PM, Rogue said:

Starting thinking this must be some internal or proprietary Citibank score...NO! The score came from TU!

 

"The consumer reporting agency listed above (TU) also provided us with your credit score of 926 which we used in making our decision. Your credit score is a number that reflects the information in your consumer report and can change as the information in your report changes. Credit scores can range from 1 to 2500 - the higher the score the better."

 

[Rogue]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 9:35 AM, centex said:

Wonder if that score is the TU equivalent of the 'resilience' score from another thread...that one seemed to be the EQ version of the EX Bust-Out score model.

That was along my line of thoughts.....

I am going to call TransUnion this week and see if I can at least get a name for this "credit score" and then go from there!

[hdporter]

1 hour ago, Rogue said:

That was along my line of thoughts.....

I am going to call TransUnion this week and see if I can at least get a name for this "credit score" and then go from there!

[Rogue]

^^^ I still know a few key people from my CRA days and am pretty sure I can still get an answer.......

Edited June 15, 2020 by Rogue

[hegemony]

bumping this as Citi sent me the same template letter for my CLI denial. The reasons given do not reflect what is on my report.

 

I talked to a CSR yesterday who told me Citi uses all information they have on me including the fact I IIB Citi last century and this reflects the score provided. My score was 920 out of 2500 based on my TU report.

 

But... nothing in the letter says they are using any data other than my TU consumer credit report. If they want to deny a CLI due to a 25 year old BK, fine that is Citi's prerogative and simply tell me this is the reason. Telling the consumer it is from TU is a lie... unless TU is using data no longer contained in an FCRA consumer credit report. Seems strange that if my internal risk score is so low they'd let me have 100K in limits, open citigold, etc.

 

@Roguedid you pursue this at all? From reading the interwebs it seems citi is not disclosing the true data used for the AA. I have yet to find someone posting a risk score over 1,000 on this scale. FWIW, my TU FICO 08 is 834.

 

I've been meaning to close at least one of my citi cards and I need to close my citigold now that my checking SUB has posted so this lack of transparency by citi has me motivated.

 

[IvyMgmt]

18 hours ago, hegemony said:

bumping this as Citi sent me the same template letter for my CLI denial. The reasons given do not reflect what is on my report.

 

I talked to a CSR yesterday who told me Citi uses all information they have on me including the fact I IIB Citi last century and this reflects the score provided. My score was 920 out of 2500 based on my TU report.

 

But... nothing in the letter says they are using any data other than my TU consumer credit report. If they want to deny a CLI due to a 25 year old BK, fine that is Citi's prerogative and simply tell me this is the reason. Telling the consumer it is from TU is a lie... unless TU is using data no longer contained in an FCRA consumer credit report. Seems strange that if my internal risk score is so low they'd let me have 100K in limits, open citigold, etc.

 

@Roguedid you pursue this at all? From reading the interwebs it seems citi is not disclosing the true data used for the AA. I have yet to find someone posting a risk score over 1,000 on this scale. FWIW, my TU FICO 08 is 834.

 

I've been meaning to close at least one of my citi cards and I need to close my citigold now that my checking SUB has posted so this lack of transparency by citi has me motivated.

 

 

I feel a bit better to now know this happens to others even with high credit scores.. that I am not the only one receiving such bizarre outdate untrue letters.. Its happening to many.. even the "good ones..."

 

[MP80]

Citigroup is skeptical about who is unemployed and who is working (as quoted in Capital One's CLD). Some people think they are lucky and have not lowered their credit limit.

[hdporter]

Just to follow up on my experience, I was declined for an increase on my Citi DC in both June and Sep (10 day expl letter).  It's clear that nothing about the AA letter raised an eyebrow since I would have been prompted to post otherwise.  So I assume that they cited typical factor(s) in the decline and that the odd EQ 2500-scaled score wasn't cited.

 

FWIW, my Citi reported EQ Fico 8 Bankcard score has trended 840-860 in recent months (250-900 scale).

 

Lots of head scratching here:  When does Citi decide to trot out this model?  Why hasn't more info surfaced on the model (like a name?  Gotta wonder if it's something like "TU nail-em dead in their tracks score". 

 

I guess it's no surprise that we haven't seen someone report a score in the top half of the 2500 range (btw, is "0" the bottom score?); since the score it only waved in your face on a decline and where it's a factor, I don't think we're going to see reports of a 2000+ score anytime soon.

[hegemony]

1 hour ago, hdporter said:

Just to follow up on my experience, I was declined for an increase on my Citi DC in both June and Sep (10 day expl letter).  It's clear that nothing about the AA letter raised an eyebrow since I would have been prompted to post otherwise.  So I assume that they cited typical factor(s) in the decline and that the odd EQ 2500-scaled score wasn't cited.

 

FWIW, my Citi reported EQ Fico 8 Bankcard score has trended 840-860 in recent months (250-900 scale).

 

Lots of head scratching here:  When does Citi decide to trot out this model?  Why hasn't more info surfaced on the model (like a name?  Gotta wonder if it's something like "TU nail-em dead in their tracks score". 

 

I guess it's no surprise that we haven't seen someone report a score in the top half of the 2500 range (btw, is "0" the bottom score?); since the score it only waved in your face on a decline and where it's a factor, I don't think we're going to see reports of a 2000+ score anytime soon.

the reported range is 1 to 2500.

 

I think either TU is selling Citi data that is not on a standard consumer credit report or CITI is using its internal data, including data back to last century, but throwing TU under the bus saying that is where it got the data it scored. I'm looking forward to the results of my CFPB, OCC, and EO complaints.

[hegemony]

2 hours ago, MP80 said:

Citigroup is skeptical about who is unemployed and who is working (as quoted in Capital One's CLD). Some people think they are lucky and have not lowered their credit limit.

perhaps in general but not in my particular situation. FWIW, for SUBs I currently have the FDIC max on deposit with CITI. Moreover, if ability to pay is the issue the AA letter should say so.

 

I've been looking for a way to get down to 15 cards and citi has given me an incentive to cut ties. It is not as if its cards are very special and I've never been a fan of the TYP ecosystem compared to MR and UR.

[Rogue]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 3:05 PM, hegemony said:

bumping this as Citi sent me the same template letter for my CLI denial. The reasons given do not reflect what is on my report.

 

I talked to a CSR yesterday who told me Citi uses all information they have on me including the fact I IIB Citi last century and this reflects the score provided. My score was 920 out of 2500 based on my TU report.

 

But... nothing in the letter says they are using any data other than my TU consumer credit report. If they want to deny a CLI due to a 25 year old BK, fine that is Citi's prerogative and simply tell me this is the reason. Telling the consumer it is from TU is a lie... unless TU is using data no longer contained in an FCRA consumer credit report. Seems strange that if my internal risk score is so low they'd let me have 100K in limits, open citigold, etc.

 

@Roguedid you pursue this at all? From reading the interwebs it seems citi is not disclosing the true data used for the AA. I have yet to find someone posting a risk score over 1,000 on this scale. FWIW, my TU FICO 08 is 834.

 

I've been meaning to close at least one of my citi cards and I need to close my citigold now that my checking SUB has posted so this lack of transparency by citi has me motivated.

 

Hege -

 

I did attempt to call the last two executives I knew (had direct lines) at TransUnion.  One took an enticing early retirement offer this summer and the other is out on disability, so struck out there and honestly have not pursued this further, however Citibank just denied me again and I am awaiting another stupid letter.

 

Thanks for your efforts and I sense some real shenanigans from Citi here.  I find it rather curious that a frontline CSR would state that Citi uses all the historical data they have on you, including data that would be obsolete per the FCRA, then Citi claims this new score is coming from our TransUnion reports which must be FCRA compliant.  Obviously TU can no longer list your BK or include it in scoring you!

 

Also curious why my score was 926 compared to 920 for you, as you should be outscoring me on probably any scoring model out there. Maybe the BK, but again TU can't use that, Citi must be utilizing an internal scoring model and simply lying about that fact, for whatever reason.  Final data point, my TU FICO 8 score is currently 820 so you do outscore me there! Glad you filed complaints Hege, please keep us updated.....

[cv91915]

Citi may be using a custom score model that uses bureau data and their own in-house data, and they may have outsourced the function of acquiring, merging and scoring data from numerous sources (including TU credit data and Citi's own internal records) to TU.

 

It's also quite possible that the score is proprietary and generated internally by Citi (or by a third party) using a similar mix of data, and that Citi's interpretation of FCRA and other laws and regulations causes them to reference TU in an adverse action letter if TU credit data was an input into a custom or proprietary score, even if the credit file data wasn't the main or only reason for denial (or even directly related).

[IvyMgmt]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:52 PM, hegemony said:

the reported range is 1 to 2500.

 

I think either TU is selling Citi data that is not on a standard consumer credit report or CITI is using its internal data, including data back to last century, but throwing TU under the bus saying that is where it got the data it scored. I'm looking forward to the results of my CFPB, OCC, and EO complaints.

 

I am wondering if Lexus Nexus is doing the same and since I have it locked all they can get is old data when credit unions pull my stuff? I cleaned up my report and still the same questions keep haunting me and I have no choice but to say yes to pass the test.. its so damn bizarre..

 

 

[cashnocredit]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:40 AM, cv91915 said:

Citi may be using a custom score model that uses bureau data and their own in-house data, and they may have outsourced the function of acquiring, merging and scoring data from numerous sources (including TU credit data and Citi's own internal records) to TU.

 

It's also quite possible that the score is proprietary and generated internally by Citi (or by a third party) using a similar mix of data, and that Citi's interpretation of FCRA and other laws and regulations causes them to reference TU in an adverse action letter if TU credit data was an input into a custom or proprietary score, even if the credit file data wasn't the main or only reason for denial (or even directly related).

That was exactly what I was thinking. And it's what I would expect Citi to do with the pandemic and the size of their resources and knowledge of the impact over their customer base.

 

I suspect their is, currently, an actual increase in risk among those that request CLIs. A fairly large fraction have cut back on spending simply due to the limitations of being able to go out and do things. Thus the obvious. That doesn't mean that there aren't lots of people that CLIs represent low risk but statistical models can't easily capture those and the limited time Covid-19 has been around doesn't provide a great deal of info to separate them out.

[Rogue]

Paging Hege to follow-up on the complaints he filed.....

[hegemony]

just to follow-up... I hit a brick wall with Citi and the complaints. I'm guessing this is some "resiliency" type score and the Citi people simple can see my old (BK) history and cite that when I talk to them. FWIW, I'm done with Citi. closed citigold, closed prestige, and will close premier when AF comes up again.

[MP80]

6 hours ago, hegemony said:

just to follow-up... I hit a brick wall with Citi and the complaints. I'm guessing this is some "resiliency" type score and the Citi people simple can see my old (BK) history and cite that when I talk to them. FWIW, I'm done with Citi. closed citigold, closed prestige, and will close premier when AF comes up again.

Every major bank is skeptical that anomalous individuals with large credit card portfolios can build large credit exposures. Citibank refuses to take more risks to the outlier customer. They are using an abnormal device scoring system to reject your credit limit increase request. They should not use outdated materials to determine your credibility. This violates FCRA. 

[hegemony]

6 hours ago, MP80 said:

Every major bank is skeptical that anomalous individuals with large credit card portfolios can build large credit exposures. Citibank refuses to take more risks to the outlier customer. They are using an abnormal device scoring system to reject your credit limit increase request. They should not use outdated materials to determine your credibility. This violates FCRA. 

well I think the score is similar to the myfuko resiliency score which has me as "sensitive" since I have no installment loans. the fact they cite old data in verbal conversations is a separate issue.

 

I've been culling cards anyway the past year or so and citi products just are not competitive for my spending pattern.