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Sometimes "Too Many Inquiries" means "too many inquiries"

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Just sharing a very recent experience with a credit denial incurred by Bev (DW):

 

It's often spouted here that credit inquiries are unimportant and of no significance.  Generally speaking, I agree with the sentiment; when an application is declined and a creditor cites too many inquiries, it's seldom the reason for the decline.  Instead, whatever that reason is, it's largely intangible (or at least doesn't fit neatly into one of the more boiler-plate descriptions).  So "too many inquiries" is used as a fall back reason.  However, there are some creditors who are recent-inquiry adverse (and this fact shouldn't be dismissed with a blanket hand waive gesture). 

 

Bev's experience strongly suggests that US Bank is one such creditor (and you're welcome to infer from that any aspersion you may desire to cast on US Bank; the point is that US Bank has some attractive products and it's best to be aware of their inquiry-averse nature when applying).  I've had a US Bank Cash+ card for a year now and most quarters I exceed the $2500 quarterly 5% cb spend cap.  It seemed reasonable to get a second such card into our household, and I had Bev apply in March.  They pulled EQ, which reflected several inquiries, 5 of which were recent (4 related to mortgage shopping in Oct/Nov, and 1 for a new cell phone account in Oct).  Her FICO was stated as 791.  She was declined for "Too Many Inquiries".

 

I intended for her to call to recon, but she's a busy gal.  By the time she called it was too late to seek a recon; 30 days had elapsed since the decision notice and they couldn't review their decision.  So I had her reapply.  By this time, all of her inquiries had aged out of the most recent 6-mo window. 

 

No instant approval, but approval came through by email 3 days later.  (A nominal $5k Sig VISA line was granted; her average open line is something like $18k.)  No appreciable change in her credit report between apps (aging of inquiries was the most significant change; none of those had aged past a year).

 

So, really just sayin':  Inquiries don't matter (until inquiries matter).

 

 

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Yes, that is true. But that is more the exception than the rule. Another exception is Citi will automatically deny you a new card for more than a couple of inquiries within the last 7 days and there's nothing they can do to get around that. You just have to reapply later.

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Inquiries "don't matter" in the sense that if your profile is otherwise great, inquiries are not going to substantially tank your score or hurt anything. The impact is minor and once you get past a threshold of "a lot" of inquiries, your score stops dropping from them, at least it seems so.

 

But, that doesn't mean lenders don't care about inquiries at all. Some are more sensitive than others. US Bank is definitely sensitive to inquiries and new accounts and probably even more so right now.

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Posted (edited)

One thing I would add is that most of the time, when people are told that INQs don't matter, it is in the context of they are trying to clean reports/raises scores and they think that disputing/removing INQs will be this huge benefit to their score, or they were denied for credit and the letter said too many INQs as the 4th reason and they fixate on that, rather than reasons 1-3 which are usually things like lates, utilization, age of accounts, etc. and the are things that really matter.

 

There are certainly some lenders who are INQ sensitive, some are new account sensitive, etc. regardless of overall report.

Edited by CTSoxFan

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21 hours ago, hdporter said:

Just sharing a very recent experience with a credit denial incurred by Bev (DW😞

 

It's often spouted here that credit inquiries are unimportant and of no significance.  Generally speaking, I agree with the sentiment; when an application is declined and a creditor cites too many inquiries, it's seldom the reason for the decline.  Instead, whatever that reason is, it's largely intangible (or at least doesn't fit neatly into one of the more boiler-plate descriptions).  So "too many inquiries" is used as a fall back reason.  However, there are some creditors who are recent-inquiry adverse (and this fact shouldn't be dismissed with a blanket hand waive gesture). 

 

Bev's experience strongly suggests that US Bank is one such creditor (and you're welcome to infer from that any aspersion you may desire to cast on US Bank; the point is that US Bank has some attractive products and it's best to be aware of their inquiry-averse nature when applying).  I've had a US Bank Cash+ card for a year now and most quarters I exceed the $2500 quarterly 5% cb spend cap.  It seemed reasonable to get a second such card into our household, and I had Bev apply in March.  They pulled EQ, which reflected several inquiries, 5 of which were recent (4 related to mortgage shopping in Oct/Nov, and 1 for a new cell phone account in Oct).  Her FICO was stated as 791.  She was declined for "Too Many Inquiries".

 

I intended for her to call to recon, but she's a busy gal.  By the time she called it was too late to seek a recon; 30 days had elapsed since the decision notice and they couldn't review their decision.  So I had her reapply.  By this time, all of her inquiries had aged out of the most recent 6-mo window. 

 

No instant approval, but approval came through by email 3 days later.  (A nominal $5k Sig VISA line was granted; her average open line is something like $18k.)  No appreciable change in her credit report between apps (aging of inquiries was the most significant change; none of those had aged past a year).

 

So, really just sayin':  Inquiries don't matter (until inquiries matter).

 

 

 

You're drawing this conclusion from the language in a computer-generated AA letter?

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2 hours ago, cv91915 said:

 

You're drawing this conclusion from the language in a computer-generated AA letter?

 

I'm attributing the difference between the denial and approval to the only significant variable that changed appreciably in between the two applications.  (And, yes, to an extent inquiries became a focus because they were the only reason specifically identified as the reason for rejection.)

 

There's no way to be 100% confident in any such conjecture.  But I feel as confident in this suggestion as I might were I to infer that the reason I (hypothetically) sold a house this month, that had sat on the market for months previously without an offer, is because last month I got rid of the horse I was housing in my living room.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, hdporter said:

 

I'm attributing the difference between the denial and approval to the only significant variable that changed appreciably in between the two applications.  (And, yes, to an extent inquiries became a focus because they were the only reason specifically identified as the reason for rejection.)

 

There's no way to be 100% confident in any such conjecture.  But I feel as confident in this suggestion as I might were I to infer that the reason I (hypothetically) sold a house this month, that had sat on the market for months previously without an offer, is because last month I got rid of the horse I was housing in my living room.

 

 

 

 

 

So it was language in the computer-generated AA letter plus conjecture that led you to this conclusion.  :) 

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1 hour ago, cv91915 said:

 

So it was language in the computer-generated AA letter plus conjecture that led you to this conclusion.  :) 

 

That sadly represents an impressive day's brain output on my part these days ...

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Yes, that is true. But that is more the exception than the rule. Another exception is Citi will automatically deny you a new card for more than a couple of inquiries within the last 7 days and there's nothing they can do to get around that. You just have to reapply later.
Ughh. Wish I had read this prior to app'ing for a Home Depot card a couple of weeks ago. I shot gunned a couple of cards prior to HD, and was denied for too many inqs.


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13 hours ago, Slug71 said:

Ughh. Wish I had read this prior to app'ing for a Home Depot card a couple of weeks ago. I shot gunned a couple of cards prior to HD, and was denied for too many inqs.


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This is why you need to have a long term strategy...to avoid pitfalls like this.  I would wait 90 days and give it another go if the card still makes sense for you.

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1 hour ago, CTSoxFan said:

This is why you need to have a long term strategy...to avoid pitfalls like this.  I would wait 90 days and give it another go if the card still makes sense for you.

With Citi and this rule you only need to wait a week for those inquiries to age. We waited a couple of weeks and got instantly approved. 

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On 5/21/2020 at 1:36 PM, shifter said:

Yes, that is true. But that is more the exception than the rule. Another exception is Citi will automatically deny you a new card for more than a couple of inquiries within the last 7 days and there's nothing they can do to get around that. You just have to reapply later.

 

58 minutes ago, shifter said:

With Citi and this rule you only need to wait a week for those inquiries to age. We waited a couple of weeks and got instantly approved. 

And still, with the time component, that's two factors that go into the denial, and not just one.  

 

It's not just "too many inquiries" when you can get approved with the same number of inquiries a week or two later.  

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This is why you need to have a long term strategy...to avoid pitfalls like this.  I would wait 90 days and give it another go if the card still makes sense for you.
I may try that. I wanted it mostly as a "in" with Citi. For me, they've always been hard to get. Now I have a BK on file that's 19 months post discharge. About a month prior to applying for the HD card, I was denied a secured card through them.

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I don’t think that having a HD card will make you any more likely to be approved for a Citi card, and honestly with a BK on your report that is less than 2 yrs old I doubt Citi will approve anytime soon.  Inquiries should be the least of your worries at this point.  You should be making sure all your IIB accounts are reporting correctly, doing what you can to get BK removed, and building a solid portfolio of a few good rebuilder/secured cards to show positive history.  Avoid the bottom feeders like credit one and get in with decent lenders (that don’t have usurious fees) or secured cards that graduate.

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I don’t think that having a HD card will make you any more likely to be approved for a Citi card, and honestly with a BK on your report that is less than 2 yrs old I doubt Citi will approve anytime soon.  Inquiries should be the least of your worries at this point.  You should be making sure all your IIB accounts are reporting correctly, doing what you can to get BK removed, and building a solid portfolio of a few good rebuilder/secured cards to show positive history.  Avoid the bottom feeders like credit one and get in with decent lenders (that don’t have usurious fees) or secured cards that graduate.
Yeh I figured Citi will be even tougher now from everything I've read. I went through my reports from EX, TU and EQ, and everything is reporting correctly.

I have Cap1 Quicksilver, Walmart, and NFCU cards now. I'm going to see if Amex will let me pay off the card I iib'd with them and get the Optima.

In the mean time I'll do some research on getting the BK removed. I imagine even that is going to be a long shot with everything being correct.

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2 hours ago, Slug71 said:

Now I have a BK on file that's 19 months post discharge. About a month prior to applying for the HD card, I was denied a secured card through them.
 

Well damn that's a totally different story. Should have learned what they were trying to teach you a month ago. They're not interested at the moment. I was talking about an experience with a clean file. 

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10 hours ago, Slug71 said:

Yeh I figured Citi will be even tougher now from everything I've read. I went through my reports from EX, TU and EQ, and everything is reporting correctly.

I have Cap1 Quicksilver, Walmart, and NFCU cards now. I'm going to see if Amex will let me pay off the card I iib'd with them and get the Optima.

In the mean time I'll do some research on getting the BK removed. I imagine even that is going to be a long shot with everything being correct.

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From my reading on the topic over the past 10+ years, AmEx will not offer the Optima program if you included them in BK.  They only offer it accounts that were CO.  Reason being is the Optima program can been seen as an attempt to collect a debt that was legally discharged in the BK (which is of course illegal).  If you give them a call and find out otherwise I would certainly be interested in knowing your experience. 

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From my reading on the topic over the past 10+ years, AmEx will not offer the Optima program if you included them in BK.  They only offer it accounts that were CO.  Reason being is the Optima program can been seen as an attempt to collect a debt that was legally discharged in the BK (which is of course illegal).  If you give them a call and find out otherwise I would certainly be interested in knowing your experience. 
I'll take it with a grain of salt, but the customer care rep I spoke with said it is possible if I paid in full. She gave me the number to the collections department, but I haven't had the $1200 yet. As soon as I do, I'll give it a shot and report back.

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On 6/1/2020 at 6:49 AM, CTSoxFan said:

From my reading on the topic over the past 10+ years, AmEx will not offer the Optima program if you included them in BK.  They only offer it accounts that were CO.  Reason being is the Optima program can been seen as an attempt to collect a debt that was legally discharged in the BK (which is of course illegal).  If you give them a call and find out otherwise I would certainly be interested in knowing your experience. 

Nothing precludes the consumer from volunteering to repay a lender even if the amount was previously discharged.  A customer can solicit AXP for Optima/OASIS without AXP violating statutes associated with post-BK collection activity. 

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4 hours ago, centex said:

Nothing precludes the consumer from volunteering to repay a lender even if the amount was previously discharged.  A customer can solicit AXP for Optima/OASIS without AXP violating statutes associated with post-BK collection activity. 

Agree with the first part.  As to the second, I am just going off what I have read in the past.  At a minimum it is probably a grey area that isn't worth exploring for them.  

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