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New Secure Card - Score Dropped 154 Points Overnight!!!

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Hello everyone. I've been working diligently during this pandemic to focus on improving my credit. I've been following the guidelines and often cross-referencing to be sure it's the right information. I found out recently, that although my debt is low, my credit score is suffering because I haven't had credit cards in the past 15 years. I very carefully researched, compared, and finally chose two secured cards that are supposed to improve my scores with all 3 major bureaus, with timely payments. About 6-8 months they say. I received the Discover It Chrome Secure card earlier in the week and didn't waste any time putting a small purchase of $12.99 out of the $300 limit, so that I could pay it off a few days after it posts, in order to get that on-time payment track record started as quickly as possible. Well, this morning, being a person who has checked their credit daily, since setting out on this path to dramatically improve it, woke up to a staggering 154 point drop in my VantageScore 3.0! The credit reports clearly state that it's due to the addition of the new Discover card and for no other reason. By the way, since I have been without credit cards for so long, a FICO score does not even register for me. So I literally am not on the FICO radar at the moment to see what damage has occurred there. So anyway, the 2nd new card hasn't shown up on my credit reports yet and honestly, I'm terrified to see what will happen when it does. Other than this, there were no other "negative" changes in my credit history that caused this avalanche of WTH??? And I was so excited about being on the path to a better credit future filled with no-sweat approved financing and lower interest rates. Maybe even zero someday. It's like I just got karate chopped in the dang throat. I felt like I couldn't breathe when seeing this first thing this morning. Nowhere out there, have I read that opening a new credit card that is advertised by the card issuer and promoted by the credit bureaus and others, as a catalyst for improving credit scores, to also be a credit score obliterator! What has happened? Losing a few points, like up to 10 perhaps, I can see, just because of the inquiry. But a loss of 154 points is devastating! And for what? Have I not done what the Powers of the Credit Scoring Universe told me to do??? Ugh, I wanna cry right now. 

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I may be behind the times but I only know of one lender who uses Vantage score in their decisioning process.  And they are a subprime auto lender.

 

 

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2 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

I was so excited about being on the path to a better credit future filled with no-sweat approved financing and lower interest rates. Maybe even zero someday. It's like I just got karate chopped in the dang throat. I felt like I couldn't breathe when seeing this first thing this morning.

You are focusing and panicking over the wrong things.  If you don't even register on the FICO scores because of a thin/empty file then your numbers are meaningless for quite some time.

 

You don't start with an 800 score and then drop when mistakes are made.  FICO works the other way.  You start at 300/450 and build it up with positive information reporting and take steps backward with the building process and staggering drops are typical for missed payments, collections and defaults.

2 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

I received the Discover It Chrome Secure card earlier in the week and didn't waste any time putting a small purchase of $12.99 out of the $300 limit, so that I could pay it off a few days after it posts, in order to get that on-time payment track record started as quickly as possible.

That will NOT start the on time payment record.  The first statement has to drop which you pay in full THEN that trick you are using works.  No matter what you charge you have to make your minimum payment at least by the payment due date or you are toast on that score for a long time.  You will build faster if you pay in full each month.  

2 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

Nowhere out there, have I read that opening a new credit card that is advertised by the card issuer and promoted by the credit bureaus and others, as a catalyst for improving credit scores, to also be a credit score obliterator! What has happened? Losing a few points, like up to 10 perhaps, I can see, just because of the inquiry. But a loss of 154 points is devastating!

NOTHING has been obliterated.  The ONLY thing you need to focus on right now is making your payments on time.  That is it.  Building your credit and getting to an 850 score is a marathon NOT a sprint.  It does not happen over night. You MIGHT see some increases in 6-8 months but do not expect them to be huge steps.  Becoming irrational over every single change to a number is going to make you nuts and you are more likely to make a mistake you regret.  For the consumer who has an established profile opening a new account might equate to a 20-40 point drop. For a consumer with no history at all it will be a much greater temporary impact.

 

It also takes a diverse profile to really reach the premium scores not just two secured cards.  IMO it will be at least a year before you see offers for unsecured cards or bigger limits if you have no file to speak of.  Creditors are going to want to see you manage your debt especially given the economic instability right now. Slow down, breathe and just pay your bills and you will reach your goal sooner than later but it won't be a the light speed you were hoping for.

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8 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

VantageScore 3.0

This “score” is meaningless. Nobody uses Vantage for credit decisions. 
Since you have a Discover card, sign up for their Credit Scorecard (I think that’s what they call it). You’ll get your TU FICO 8 for free every month.

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14 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

woke up to a staggering 154 point drop in my VantageScore 3.0!

I'm going to give you +160 points for creating this thread (you're now at 803 on my scale).

 

My points are just as useless as Vantage 3.0, but I think you'll really enjoy the score I just gave you.  🏆

 

Good job getting started.  You'll have FICOs scores within a few months.

 

And welcome.  :wave: 

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To reassure you it will be ok. First thing that took a hit was the average age of credit. You add a new card so now 15 yrs is cut in 1/2 due to the new card. It will recover it will just take time. As long as you don’t have any plans to purchase anything anytime time I wouldn’t worry. You know you are good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Thin files WILL see larger swings on certain file changes.  However, disregard Vantage for ANYTHING other than to know that SOMETHING has changed.  Lenders don't use it but SOME entities shill it as a shiny bauble to entice the masses.  The smart people know it is useless.  Unless it is branded as a Fair Isaac product, you can generally disregard ANY model producing a three-digit "credit skore."

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22 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

Hello everyone. I've been working diligently during this pandemic to focus on improving my credit. I've been following the guidelines and often cross-referencing to be sure it's the right information. I found out recently, that although my debt is low, my credit score is suffering because I haven't had credit cards in the past 15 years. I very carefully researched, compared, and finally chose two secured cards that are supposed to improve my scores with all 3 major bureaus, with timely payments. About 6-8 months they say. I received the Discover It Chrome Secure card earlier in the week and didn't waste any time putting a small purchase of $12.99 out of the $300 limit, so that I could pay it off a few days after it posts, in order to get that on-time payment track record started as quickly as possible. Well, this morning, being a person who has checked their credit daily, since setting out on this path to dramatically improve it, woke up to a staggering 154 point drop in my VantageScore 3.0! The credit reports clearly state that it's due to the addition of the new Discover card and for no other reason. By the way, since I have been without credit cards for so long, a FICO score does not even register for me. So I literally am not on the FICO radar at the moment to see what damage has occurred there. So anyway, the 2nd new card hasn't shown up on my credit reports yet and honestly, I'm terrified to see what will happen when it does. Other than this, there were no other "negative" changes in my credit history that caused this avalanche of WTH??? And I was so excited about being on the path to a better credit future filled with no-sweat approved financing and lower interest rates. Maybe even zero someday. It's like I just got karate chopped in the dang throat. I felt like I couldn't breathe when seeing this first thing this morning. Nowhere out there, have I read that opening a new credit card that is advertised by the card issuer and promoted by the credit bureaus and others, as a catalyst for improving credit scores, to also be a credit score obliterator! What has happened? Losing a few points, like up to 10 perhaps, I can see, just because of the inquiry. But a loss of 154 points is devastating! And for what? Have I not done what the Powers of the Credit Scoring Universe told me to do??? Ugh, I wanna cry right now. 

Tangential point of order here - right now, the economy is in free fall, along with a lot of people's personal finances.

 

Trying to rebuild credit now with all these variables would be like trying to start a new career now or trying to get a raise now or anything like that ... not impossible, but harder, and slower. Everyone is swimming upstream in many levels of this economy right now.

 

Mainly I'm saying this - I too am trying to change some things - it's a weird, weird time. Even as far as scores go, people are seeing the "affected by natural disaster" thing on reports, and some people are just affected even with little or no fluctuation.

 

So I'd bear that in mind when you read about normal building or rebuilding. Nothing about now is normal. Definitely don't give up, but also don't get discouraged if you have setbacks. It's difficult right now.

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4 hours ago, smartlypretty said:

Tangential point of order here - right now, the economy is in free fall, along with a lot of people's personal finances.

 

Trying to rebuild credit now with all these variables would be like trying to start a new career now or trying to get a raise now or anything like that ... not impossible, but harder, and slower. Everyone is swimming upstream in many levels of this economy right now.

 

Mainly I'm saying this - I too am trying to change some things - it's a weird, weird time. Even as far as scores go, people are seeing the "affected by natural disaster" thing on reports, and some people are just affected even with little or no fluctuation.

 

So I'd bear that in mind when you read about normal building or rebuilding. Nothing about now is normal. Definitely don't give up, but also don't get discouraged if you have setbacks. It's difficult right now.

IMHO the economy has no effect on the consumer rebuilding. I'm not sure what you're basing your assertion upon.

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49 minutes ago, hegemony said:

IMHO the economy has no effect on the consumer rebuilding. I'm not sure what you're basing your assertion upon.

Difficulty acquiring new positive tradelines, possible delays in disputing anything, possible gaps in service with CBs, lines getting slashed for rebuilders sometimes, general reduced access to individuals who are outside of prime or superprime ratings and even some reduced access for everyone? Lenders being skittish? Long hold times at any financial institution? Intermittent closures of non-essential business which may or may not be highly relevant to any consumer's rebuilding efforts? The entire disappearance of favored rebuilding tools like Chase Slate? A moratorium on products like HELOCS? A [CHARACTER LIMIT EXCEEDED] 

 

It isn't impossible or even affirmatively harder to build credit and repair credit now, but I maintain now is not the easiest or most encouraging time to, say, be attempting to get approved for a new card to boost utilization, or to call a financial institution or CB for assistance, etc. 

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50 minutes ago, smartlypretty said:

Difficulty acquiring new positive tradelines, possible delays in disputing anything, possible gaps in service with CBs, lines getting slashed for rebuilders sometimes, general reduced access to individuals who are outside of prime or superprime ratings and even some reduced access for everyone? Lenders being skittish? Long hold times at any financial institution? Intermittent closures of non-essential business which may or may not be highly relevant to any consumer's rebuilding efforts? The entire disappearance of favored rebuilding tools like Chase Slate? A moratorium on products like HELOCS? A [CHARACTER LIMIT EXCEEDED] 

 

It isn't impossible or even affirmatively harder to build credit and repair credit now, but I maintain now is not the easiest or most encouraging time to, say, be attempting to get approved for a new card to boost utilization, or to call a financial institution or CB for assistance, etc. 

where is the evidence getting new tradelines is harder?

 

I never heard of Slate being a favoured rebuilder, just a favoured BT card.

 

people without good scores and profiles have always had problems with lines getting slashed.

 

I'm not saying things havn't changed, but I would not want to discourage someone who is setting out to rebuild.

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4 hours ago, smartlypretty said:

Difficulty acquiring new positive tradelines, possible delays in disputing anything, possible gaps in service with CBs, lines getting slashed for rebuilders sometimes, general reduced access to individuals who are outside of prime or superprime ratings and even some reduced access for everyone? Lenders being skittish? Long hold times at any financial institution? Intermittent closures of non-essential business which may or may not be highly relevant to any consumer's rebuilding efforts? The entire disappearance of favored rebuilding tools like Chase Slate? A moratorium on products like HELOCS? A [CHARACTER LIMIT EXCEEDED] 

Half of those are 90% irrelevant. Half are completely irrelevant. The other half are not even necessarily true. Are you a divorce lawyer in your spare time? 

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13 hours ago, hegemony said:

where is the evidence getting new tradelines is harder?

 

I never heard of Slate being a favoured rebuilder, just a favoured BT card.

 

people without good scores and profiles have always had problems with lines getting slashed.

 

I'm not saying things havn't changed, but I would not want to discourage someone who is setting out to rebuild.

Same here, but I think we're coming from different sides. I don't want OP to be discouraged if it's slower or harder than past DPs suggest. Since OP was reporting a fluctuation, it was my thought process that saying "setbacks are more common right now, keep going" would help.

 

IMO, if OP experiences a setback and I say others are experiencing setbacks (me included!) then I hope they feel encouraged, not discouraged. If we don't talk about the financial climate, OP might think "maybe I'm the only person seeing what look like score fluctuations. Which is not the case. 

 

Also if this were my first time/I was new, I might read other rebuilding threads and want to try strategies in a contracted climate. But that doesn't mean it is definitively harder or not possible or not worthwhile. It's just a weird time.

9 hours ago, shifter said:

Half of those are 90% irrelevant. Half are completely irrelevant. The other half are not even necessarily true. Are you a divorce lawyer in your spare time? 

Warm.

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SP, the OP was reporting a fluctuation in a score that DOES NOT MATTER!  It would have been VERY different if they had come and said some flavor of actual Fair Isaac score modeling had been moving in that amount.  Vantage Skores simply don't matter and should ONLY be used for comic relief or to know that there was some manner of change.  Through the years, MANY have reported movements from KarmaKredit and VantageSkores and any number of other FAKOS in a downward fashion while an actual Fair Isaac score had increased.  There is a reason we call most models FAKO!

 

While it is true that SOME have seen decreases in lines, it does NOT mean that quality cards are impossible to obtain at present.  There is no known issue with issuers being able to access bureaus.  And if one has active disputes going on, it is rarely a good time to be seeking new lines anyhow...

 

Hold times with financial institutions play zero role in rebuilding.  OP, if they ever come back to the thread, needs to keep their eye on the ball... 

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3 hours ago, centex said:

SP, the OP was reporting a fluctuation in a score that DOES NOT MATTER!  It would have been VERY different if they had come and said some flavor of actual Fair Isaac score modeling had been moving in that amount.  Vantage Skores simply don't matter and should ONLY be used for comic relief or to know that there was some manner of change.  Through the years, MANY have reported movements from KarmaKredit and VantageSkores and any number of other FAKOS in a downward fashion while an actual Fair Isaac score had increased.  There is a reason we call most models FAKO!

 

While it is true that SOME have seen decreases in lines, it does NOT mean that quality cards are impossible to obtain at present.  There is no known issue with issuers being able to access bureaus.  And if one has active disputes going on, it is rarely a good time to be seeking new lines anyhow...

 

Hold times with financial institutions play zero role in rebuilding.  OP, if they ever come back to the thread, needs to keep their eye on the ball... 

I agree. Definitely don't get discouraged OP!

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Hello, everyone. I thank you all for responding to my thread. Honestly, until about an hour ago, I had forgotten that I even posted my concern anywhere. So many things to do and think about. I flat out forgot until I went in search of answers for the same issue and then my very own topic popped up at the top of the Google search. Lol. 

 

So to update, I still don't have any answers as to why there was this astronomical drop. I have one theory related to both of the new cards appearing as though I have had them open for nearly two years, without making any purchases. Which of course, can hurt scores dramatically. That showing incorrectly on my report in the Equifax row, could be why the drop was so big. But I haven't found an entity yet, Equifax or otherwise, who wants to take responsibility for fixing that misleading information. With that said, I believe you all when you say that the Vantage score doesn't really matter. Though honestly it still bothers me simply because I don't understand the reasoning behind it and I can't get an answer for it. So it's that loose thread that keeps nagging at me. 

 

I've been out of the credit reporting loop for so long that I learned many things in the past few months, that I had no idea about even when I had great scores in my early twenties. I realize now all of the mistakes that I made back then with utilization and payments, and all kinds of stuff. But back then, I thought I was doing everything right. I had 2 Visas, 2 Mastercards, and gold AMEX, so I thought I had it made until I needed to leave that job because my boss waved a gun in a co-workers face. Then after that, I was back to crappy paying jobs and that's when I lost all control of my credit health. I couldn't keep up with the payments to cover the purchases that I had built up when I had the better paying job. Sadly, that was just the beginning . . .

 

But anyway, I now have a FICO 8 score and thankfully, it is in much better shape than the Vantage one. In fact, it's just a little above where the Vantage score was before the plunge. Like you are all saying, I am going to keep my focus on the FICO score because I have found, that some of the next steps that I plan to take, are gauged on only the FICO score anyway. Like a small installment loan with Credova, for instance, to make my profile more diverse as it has been suggested by many professionals and even someone right here.

 

Some of you wonder why I'm even bothering to worry about building credit during this difficult time. The simple answer is . . . because I want to come out of this better than how I went in. A serious plan for repairing my credit has been my goal since last year. I was supposed to spend the last 3 months of 2019 fixing my credit. However, the more I learned about what that would take, the more I realized that paying off old debts was not going to be enough. So my efforts rolled over into this year. During the pandemic, there are many things that I can't control, like my boss being a total buttmunch and screwing me out of commissions, which are my lifeline and how I make most of my income. And before anyone tries to come to the defense of my boss and say that employers and companies are having a rough time too and they have to make some tough decisions to stay afloat; I know that's true. But that's not even close to what's happening in my workplace. Sometimes people simply take advantage of times like these to do their dastardly deeds. They take from you to give to their own. I'm not talking about anything race related. But I'm definitely the outsider where I work and I'll just leave it at that for now.

 

So anyway, I have to be super diligent now, about preparing myself for some much needed changes so that I can bring down the interest rates that are offered to me and I can get approved for loans if I need them. If I'm going to have less income, then I damn sure need to have better credit so that I can survive what's happening in my work-life right now. I haven't found on position yet, that will replace the income potential that I had before all of this, that I'm actually qualified to do or one that won't bore me to tears. As a single mom with only one income, I need to look at every avenue to improve my current situation. I've been working from home with my 4-year-old who I'm afraid to send back to daycare/VPK because of the pandemic, so my employment options are extremely limited right now. I don't expect all of you to understand this, because your needs and responsibilities may be different from my own. But please don't knock me for trying to make a better situation for myself and my child. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

So to update, I still don't have any answers as to why there was this astronomical drop. I have one theory related to both of the new cards appearing as though I have had them open for nearly two years, without making any purchases. Which of course, can hurt scores dramatically. That showing incorrectly on my report in the Equifax row, could be why the drop was so big. But I haven't found an entity yet, Equifax or otherwise, who wants to take responsibility for fixing that misleading information. With that said, I believe you all when you say that the Vantage score doesn't really matter. Though honestly it still bothers me simply because I don't understand the reasoning behind it and I can't get an answer for it. So it's that loose thread that keeps nagging at me. 

Please put this Vantage nonsense behind you.

 

Vantage Skores are a running joke here because no one uses them to extend credit.

 

I "lost" 50+ fake points when a routine balance reported recently.  But it could have just as well be a 400 point loss or a 7,000 point gain, because it will have zero impact on my life.

 

 

Here is how actual creditors see me through my FICO 8 scores:

 

y7QLHbA.png

 

 

If you received a job offer with a salary denominated in Venezuelan bolivars, how helpful would that be in determining the type of lifestyle you could have if you took the job?

 

Edited by cv91915

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 1badgigachik said:

Like a small installment loan with Credova, for instance,

Never heard of them until your post.

 

From looking at the web site, it looks like they finance retail purchases.  

 

An installment account only helps your scores while it's open.  So if you buy something with 6 or 12 payments, once you repay the loan it's like the account was never there (score-wise).  And what's the interest rate?

 

Check out the threads that discussed secured installment loans from credit unions.  Take out the longest possible term and pay most of it off almost immediately (this maximizes the duration of the benefit and minimized interest expenses).
 

 

 

Edited by cv91915

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I'm sorry to hear all the troubles you've had. That is a rough story. But it sounds like you are willing to work with the hand you've been dealt, which should help you to move forward and achieve your goals.

 

I'm wondering how much an installment loan would help you or not. If you look for the threads on the Alliant loan hack and the NFCU share-secured loan hack, you'll find out more about what CV was referring to, and other CBers experiences with scores and different payment strategies (like 90-95%).  I've never done one, but I think it might be a good way to build a history with a particular CU, if you find one that offers products you like and might want in the future. But any CU will require that you open and keep a savings account with them.

 

Oh yeah, and forget you ever cared about the word Vantage. It's a false icon that so far no lenders care about. That's in the fine print when the CRA sells you the Vantage. 

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On 6/2/2020 at 7:31 PM, 1badgigachik said:

 both of the new cards appearing as though I have had them open for nearly two years, without making any purchases. Which of course, can hurt scores dramatically. 

Huh? Not sure where you're getting this misinformation, but nothing of the kind plays into your credit score. I had a card show up overnight opened in 1972 with no activity and it only helped. 

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On 6/2/2020 at 7:31 PM, 1badgigachik said:

 I can bring down the interest rates that are offered to me and I can get approved for loans if I need them. If I'm going to have less income, then I damn sure need to have better credit so that I can survive what's happening in my work-life right now. 

If you have less income how are you going to afford the debt service on additional loans? That sounds like a one way trip to BK land. No judgment there as I've been there myself, but just from experience, using debt to pay bills and then more debt to pay debt is not a recommended strategy. If your income is going to be severely reduced, start now cutting everything, absolutely everything and saving every extra dollar. Then when your income is actually reduced cut even more. The only sustainable way to live is when your expenses are less than your income. 

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      Lates:   Auto loan – 10x in past 2 yrs.
                  8 Navient Accounts – 7x in past 2yrs. (although was in forbearance)
                  2 Utah Higher Edu Accounts – 6x in past 2 yrs. (must verify if was in forbearance or deferment)
                  1 ACS Group Account – Sold in 2016, shows as closed and current status of 120 days past due.
       
      Charge Offs:    Cap One #1 = $1850 from Apr 2020, but shows as open and 120+ past due
                              UM Old Balance from 2012 – $8k
       
       Experian
       
      Lates:   Auto loan – 14x in past 2 yrs. Status says: Now paying/was a charge-off
                  8 Navient Accounts – 7x in past 2yrs. (although was in forbearance)
                  2 Utah Higher Edu Accounts – 6x in past 2 yrs. (must verify if was in forbearance or deferment)
                  1 ACS Group Account – Sold in 2016, shows as closed and current status of 120 days past due.
       
      Charge Offs:    Cap One #1 = $1850 from Apr 2020
                              Cap One #2 = $613 from Oct 2019
       
      Trans Union
       
      Lates:   Auto loan – 14x in past 2 yrs. (says C/O for Oct 2018)
                  8 Navient Accounts – 7x in past 2yrs. (although was in forbearance)
                  2 Utah Higher Edu Accounts – 6x in past 2 yrs. (must verify if was in forbearance or deferment)
                  1 ACS Group Account – Sold in 2016, shows as closed and current status of 120 days past due.
       
      Charge Offs:    Cap One #1 = $1850 from Apr 2020
                              Cap One #2 = $636 from Oct 2019
       
      Collections:     IC Systems (Charter Communications) = $167
       
       Auto loan: It was almost a repo. I paid past due the same day they set it out to be towed. I was 3 months behind. Why are they saying it was a charge off? What can I do?
      Student loans: I was in forbearance, but Navient says they no longer change credit reports. They sent me letter confirming forbearance for those months.
      Charge Offs: Since they are within past year, should I try to settle, pay in full, or wait a while?
    • By imar9418
      I have an AMEX charge off from 2017 its paid but I want it off my reports I've called them but the guy on the phone just kept saying nope can't take it off even if paid.
      I've even tried disputing them because they were reporting the wrong info but they just update with the right info. 
       
      I was able to get approved for a different AMEx card two months ago so I know I'm not blacklisted 
       
      I was wondering has anyone had any luck with something like this. 
    • By Toast73
      I am pretty proactive on MyFico, so I thought I'd come here and get a different perspective on credit repair.
       
      I have read through Why Chat's Credit Confusion, and it's pretty robust.
       
      But one question I have that I cannot see addressed (other than a vague NYT article) is why "opting-out" is the first step toward credit repair?
       
      I understand the dispute process, but can you actually force the creditors to stop reporting information to credit bureaus this way?



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