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84% of Americans say they need another welfare check

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4 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

Well technically you are correct but the name they are actually calling it is Covid-19 stimulus.

 

if it was stimulus it would not have been MEANS tested.

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10 minutes ago, hegemony said:

it is what it is and I'm not complaining. I'm glad this welfare program was created to help the short term economic situation; but it needs to be called what it is not what others want to market it to us.

Hege my impression of you on this board is you have a good heart. 

 

I remember an old expression my parents' used, "You are going to send us to the poor house". Pre-Depression Era poor houses existed to punish and denigrate the poor and jobless. When welfare came along people were shamed that accepted the $. Stigma of being on welfare was bad. 

 

Stimulus, to me, is stimulating an economy in trouble.

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6 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

Hege my impression of you on this board is you have a good heart. 

 

I remember an old expression my parents' used, "You are going to send us to the poor house". Pre-Depression Era poor houses existed to punish and denigrate the poor and jobless. When welfare came along people were shamed that accepted the $. Stigma of being on welfare was bad. 

 

Stimulus, to me, is stimulating an economy in trouble.

it is both stimulus and welfare assuming recipients use it as intended. Of course if someone like received the $1200 it would circulate into the economy pretty quickly. probably for something important like some new throw rugs or pre-paid haircuts.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, nemo said:

I would donate the money elsewhere. The way the government spends and gives away money, any money sent back won't help with the debt.

If you're set on donating money to the government, buy savings bonds and forget about them, from the same website. At least if you ever need the money back, you can redeem the savings bonds.

Edited by Burgerwars

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4 minutes ago, Burgerwars said:

I would donate the money elsewhere. The way the government spends and gives away money, any money sent back won't help with the debt.

If you're set on donating money to the government, buy savings bonds and forget about them, from the same website. At least if you ever need the money back, you can redeem the savings bonds.

I was thinking the very same thing about the government.

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Posted (edited)

Come on now.

 

I've just been working on a paper about welfare stigma as a risk factor for depression, so I've thought about this at great length. We all know perfectly well that the term "welfare" carries a great deal of stigma and has been used to shame and beat anyone who needs assistance for decades now. It's a very loaded term. Using it in this context is not neutral. 

 

It's also been used for *political* purposes to justify destroying any kind of a safety net in this country and push a very specific economic agenda-- which of course I can't criticize here since "political posts"  are supposed to be verboten on CB, right?

 

The accurate and neutral term is stimulus. Please call it what it is. "Welfare check" betrays a definite political agenda.

Edited by Achillia

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5 hours ago, hegemony said:

if it was stimulus it would not have been MEANS tested.

It is not throughly means tested when it's sent out to people who did not personally ask for it and were not negatively impacted by Covid-19.

 

It was only means tested by a income bracket.

 

So I give that a 1/2 true.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Achillia said:

Come on now.

 

I've just been working on a paper about welfare stigma as a risk factor for depression, so I've thought about this at great length. We all know perfectly well that the term "welfare" carries a great deal of stigma and has been used to shame and beat anyone who needs assistance for decades now. It's a very loaded term. Using it in this context is not neutral. 

 

It's also been used for *political* purposes to justify destroying any kind of a safety net in this country and push a very specific economic agenda-- which of course I can't criticize here since "political posts"  are supposed to be verboten on CB, right?

 

The accurate and neutral term is stimulus. Please call it what it is. "Welfare check" betrays a definite political agenda.

The terms "bailout," "handout," "welfare," don't have the stigma they used to have.  Today it's become mainstream.  It's "economic stimulus package" by another name.  All the same.  Now if a company doesn't get bailed out, they're out of business.  It's a requirement.  Forget about what you learned in economics class in college.  Decades ago if you said you're collecting food stamps, people might think there is something wrong with you.  Now it's cool.  It's no longer food stamps, but a smart looking EBT debit card.  It's one card I have been unable to add to my collection.  :(

Times have changed.  😕

Edited by Burgerwars

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11 hours ago, Achillia said:

The accurate and neutral term is stimulus. Please call it what it is. "Welfare check" betrays a definite political agenda.

It's stimulating economies alright - the country with the laboratory where all this feces started. Look at your local Costco, Best Buy, W*****t, etc after the first round of helicopter money hit bank accounts. It didn't go for food, it didn't go to pay back rent. No. It went for Chinese made flat screen TVs.

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11 hours ago, creditmaze said:

It is not throughly means tested when it's sent out to people who did not personally ask for it and were not negatively impacted by Covid-19.

 

It was only means tested by a income bracket.

 

So I give that a 1/2 true.

that is the definition of a means test. "If your income is this high, no soup for you"

 

 

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11 hours ago, Achillia said:

Come on now.

 

I've just been working on a paper about welfare stigma as a risk factor for depression, so I've thought about this at great length. We all know perfectly well that the term "welfare" carries a great deal of stigma and has been used to shame and beat anyone who needs assistance for decades now. It's a very loaded term. Using it in this context is not neutral. 

 

It's also been used for *political* purposes to justify destroying any kind of a safety net in this country and push a very specific economic agenda-- which of course I can't criticize here since "political posts"  are supposed to be verboten on CB, right?

 

The accurate and neutral term is stimulus. Please call it what it is. "Welfare check" betrays a definite political agenda.

It would be a stimulus check if it wasn't means tested. Just like I don't qualify for food stamps, I don't qualify for this welfare program.  A lot of the people getting this welfare check are the same who favour drug testing for food stamps so a little stigma for their cognitive dissonance is fine by me.

 

The PPP fake "loan" welfare program is even worse.

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I think some people are PO'd because they didn't get a 'welfare' check 🤣

 

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55 minutes ago, hegemony said:

that is the definition of a means test. "If your income is this high, no soup for you"

 

 

I understand what you're saying but receiving a true welfare check there is more involved than what is stated income on a previous tax return. For instance to qualify:

 

1. You have to apply for welfare

2. Can not have more than $2K in assets if single; $3K if married

3. First automobile not counted as asset. Additional autos use Kelly Blue Book for current value

4. Life insurance value counted in assets

5. IRA's are excluded

 

So, when the term "welfare money" is loosely thrown out there a lot of people assume the recipient is indigent.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Burgerwars said:

Now if a company doesn't get bailed out, they're out of business.  It's a requirement. 

That's not entirely fair. I remember it was March 16th I believe, when the shelter in place order was signed in California, and "poof" just like that, it seemed everything was just shutdown/closed. Small businesses and larger companies may have had some financial cushion or a contingency plan as they saw the spread of covid-19, but it put them in a very tight spot immediately. The economy is driven by "JIT" with little room for error and it does not take much to disrupt their business to the point of having to close if they do not get some financial help from the Government.

 

3 hours ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

It's stimulating economies alright - the country with the laboratory where all this feces started. Look at your local Costco, Best Buy, W*****t, etc after the first round of helicopter money hit bank accounts. It didn't go for food, it didn't go to pay back rent. No. It went for Chinese made flat screen TVs.

 

I remember that, and it was disgusting. Disheartening to say the least, as if to say, oh don't worry, there is more where that came from, instead of using it on essential items to get by during tough times. 

Edited by NorCalR1
Direct infusion to business

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1 hour ago, creditmaze said:

I understand what you're saying but receiving a true welfare check there is more involved than what is stated income on a previous tax return. For instance to qualify:

 

1. You have to apply for welfare

2. Can not have more than $2K in assets if single; $3K if married

3. First automobile not counted as asset. Additional autos use Kelly Blue Book for current value

4. Life insurance value counted in assets

5. IRA's are excluded

 

So, when the term "welfare money" is loosely thrown out there a lot of people assume the recipient is indigent.

exactly my point. this "stimulus" program is not even as strict as longstanding "welfare" programs. Have a pulse and made less than $XX? you get free welfare money!

 

And despite the claim of a longstanding troll who wants to make it about me, I never said I wanted a welfare check from this program. I just don't want everyone to think the program is something other than a wealth transfer. The saddest part of which is that it is a transfer of wealth from grandchildren.

 

 

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I do wonder though. What would have been the outcome if the Federal Government just infused cash directly into businesses with the contingency that they must maintain payroll or a major portion of it, thus negating most UI claims. It would have been smoother and cleaner, but it also has downsides and is controversial.

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6 minutes ago, NorCalR1 said:

I do wonder though. What would have been the outcome if the Federal Government just infused cash directly into businesses with the contingency that they must maintain payroll or a major portion of it, thus negating most UI claims. It would have been smoother and cleaner, but it also has downsides and is controversial.

 

I would have preferred direct payments without the big banks being in the equation but I'm not sure Treasury has the capacity to do so.

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4 minutes ago, hegemony said:

 

I would have preferred direct payments without the big banks being in the equation but I'm not sure Treasury has the capacity to do so.

 

Agree. That's the fly in the ointment so to speak, is that I think big banks would have been a key component in such a program, drawing even more controversy.

 

Actually, yeah, it was the 2008 Financial Crisis, where it seemed the Treasury Dept and the Big Banks needed to be on the same page before we could've gotten out of that mess. In other words, they are intertwined in any sort of economic recovery.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kat58 said:

I think some people are PO'd because they didn't get a 'welfare' check 🤣

 

Lol! I think that is exactly what we have here. Its never a welfare check if it is yours.
 

I would argue that the stimulus *should* go to people who will spend it immediately so that it will actually act as a stimulus— e.g., the folks who are not already wealthy, the jobless, small business owners, etc. That’s how stimulus payments work. I read an article not too long ago by an upper income person who kvetched about how he was missing out on the opportunity to buy more equities. He was truly missing the point in my opinion.

Edited by Achillia

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31 minutes ago, hegemony said:

exactly my point. this "stimulus" program is not even as strict as longstanding "welfare" programs. Have a pulse and made less than $XX? you get free welfare money!

 

And despite the claim of a longstanding troll who wants to make it about me, I never said I wanted a welfare check from this program. I just don't want everyone to think the program is something other than a wealth transfer. The saddest part of which is that it is a transfer of wealth from grandchildren.

 

 


This is another reason why you should not call it “welfare” in my opinion. It is not in any way the same thing. It is a stimulus designed to save the economy and to prevent a huge portion of our population from being ruined in this pandemic. This actually is a major emergency. My gripe is only that it does not do enough. We need to make a longer and more thoughtful plan, preferably one that doesn’t get us killed.

 

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5 hours ago, Burgerwars said:

The terms "bailout," "handout," "welfare," don't have the stigma they used to have.  Today it's become mainstream.  It's "economic stimulus package" by another name.  All the same.  Now if a company doesn't get bailed out, they're out of business.  It's a requirement.  Forget about what you learned in economics class in college.  Decades ago if you said you're collecting food stamps, people might think there is something wrong with you.  Now it's cool.  It's no longer food stamps, but a smart looking EBT debit card.  It's one card I have been unable to add to my collection.  :(

Times have changed.  😕

I wish this were true. In my practice though I have found there is still a huge amount of stigma, shaming, and hatred. I have disabled clients who have been spat upon for their smart looking EBT cards.

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41 minutes ago, Achillia said:


This is another reason why you should not call it “welfare” in my opinion. It is not in any way the same thing. It is a stimulus designed to save the economy and to prevent a huge portion of our population from being ruined in this pandemic. This actually is a major emergency. My gripe is only that it does not do enough. We need to make a longer and more thoughtful plan, preferably one that doesn’t get us killed.

 

 

It is a form of social welfare program. Do be deluded by those who want you to think otherwise.

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36 minutes ago, Achillia said:

I wish this were true. In my practice though I have found there is still a huge amount of stigma, shaming, and hatred. I have disabled clients who have been spat upon for their smart looking EBT cards.

 Perhaps the people spitting will change their opinions now that they are recipients of welfare and not "stimulus." Hence the need to acknowledge this is not something people have "earned" but instead is a welfare program they are benefiting from.

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