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84% of Americans say they need another welfare check

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10 hours ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

That is assuming a vaccine can be developed. We've known of SARS for 20 years and as of yet there's no vaccine. We've known about HIV for over 40 years and there's no vaccine. It took decades to develop a viable vaccine for polio, granted that was back when medical research was not as good as it is now.

Actually, an effective vaccine against SARS was developed, and it is serving as the foundation for some of the numerous efforts to develop a Covid vaccine.  The problem with the SARS vaccine is that the outbreak never reached pandemic scale and was snuffed out before large-scale human trials commenced.  Once the outbreak was extinguished, investors and big pharma lost interest, and the funding evaporated.

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10 hours ago, CreditSucksNot said:

There is a clear answer the problem is that the majority of the public are drooling mouth breathing idiots with a room temperature IQ.  WARNING:  my opinion on this may not be popular but it is mine.

 

I have been in health care for 40+ years.  Rule #1:  EVERY living thing dies.  Even non- living things die (cars, electronics etc.)  Rule #2:  there is absolutely NO medical intervention, vaccine, cure or treatment that will prevent Rule #1 from coming in to play.  This is not a statement on the value of individual life or specific group(s).  This is reality.  While each person/family unit/group HOPES they have a long and wonderful life passing quietly of natural causes in their sleep at 105 years of age the truth is most won't.  Every year children/young and people die from the flu, car accidents, rare infections and accidents.  NO ONE wishes for that to happen but it does.  This despite car seat laws, DUI laws, playground equipment regulations.  You cannot pass enough requirements or regulations to stop the final phase of life.  There is ALWAYS someone or some group who believes they know and can do better (think anti-vaxxers)

 

Proof that what we are doing in response to corona is wrong goes back to the new variant of mad cow disease that appeared in England and Europe in 1996.  Young people were dying at an alarming rate.  They stopped exporting beef.  Then they killed EVERY cow in England.  It didn't stop the virus.  They found out it survived in soil and by other means.  Eventually the number of cases in people leveled off and their cattle industry recovered.

 

Shutting down the economy and coming to a standstill is NOT going to stop the corona virus.  People will still get it.  Most will recover.  Some will not.  Will some children die?  Yes.  Young people?  Yes.  The beloved 85 year old organist for the choir at the local church?  Yes.  BUT, we do know the majority will recover.  They are all important to their personal universe but the reality is closing the country/world down and paralyzing the economy while destroying the over all ability to support self and family isn't going to save everyone.  You can't put enough restrictions in place permanently that will prevent anyone from ever getting it again.

 

There are plenty of things that could have been done to contain this without destroying our way of life for decades to come.  I hear calls for a vaccine but look at how many people every year give the middle finger to getting a flu or pneumonia vaccine.  Granted this virus has created way more fear in the public than the flu.  Which brings me to my last observation:  ask yourself WHY the leadership/government has encouraged the media to fan the flames fueling the public fear and panic?  WHY was the majority of money in the PPA funneled to the largest businesses by the banking industry?  WHY have they rushed to push through the financial stimulus checks (which I still don't have by the way).  I have my theory but that is probably too close to the political discussion but will sum it up this way:  Get rid of the middle class.  They want the public dependent on the government.  Keep people scared and dependent and you have the most control.  Of course that didn't work out for England when the colonists came here but sadly there isn't a whole new world to move to when we get fed up with it all.  

 

Mad cow disease, like its human variant Jakob-Creutzfeld Syndrome and various wasting diseases in other livestock and deer, is caused by a new class of infectious agents called prions, which are composed of folded protein fragments. Their existence was suspected as early as the 1950s, but not proven until the mid-70s.  The first prion isolated in the lab was in the early 1980s.  They are not as infectious as viruses, and their propagation is more of a geometric progression, like bacteria, than exponential.

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13 hours ago, Occam said:

Actually the least bad option may be lifting and reinstating shelter in place several times, until herd immunity is achieved and/or a vaccine is widely available. The idea would be to spread it out over several lower peaks that won't overwhelm the health care system; this would greatly reduce the mortality rate vs that of a single peak.

 

Assuming a good antibody test becomes widely available, and those testing positive show good immunity, fewer people will have to shelter in place each time. 

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/17/905264/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College

 

Ironically I expect we will probably stumble into a policy like this inadvertently.

Yes, this is addressed in that report I linked. At length.

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11 hours ago, Burdell said:

Actually, an effective vaccine against SARS was developed, and it is serving as the foundation for some of the numerous efforts to develop a Covid vaccine.  The problem with the SARS vaccine is that the outbreak never reached pandemic scale and was snuffed out before large-scale human trials commenced.  Once the outbreak was extinguished, investors and big pharma lost interest, and the funding evaporated.

When I read this, I remembered something I saw or read or heard in a discussion recently, may have even been here.

 

No, it was in my weekly widow chat from a scientist- that this is a "sweet spot" (but opposite) because of the CFR.

 

Off the top of my head, SARS 1's CFR is 11%. MERS is 36%. SARS 1 killed too many of the ill by proportion than SARS 2 does, so it never became a pandemic. Is what this person said.

 

This tracks with that, we have a pandemic because enough of the walking wounded can carry on spreading it, ad infinitum. 

11 hours ago, Burdell said:

Mad cow disease, like its human variant Jakob-Creutzfeld Syndrome and various wasting diseases in other livestock and deer, is caused by a new class of infectious agents called prions, which are composed of folded protein fragments. Their existence was suspected as early as the 1950s, but not proven until the mid-70s.  The first prion isolated in the lab was in the early 1980s.  They are not as infectious as viruses, and their propagation is more of a geometric progression, like bacteria, than exponential.

Another important point -- vCJD was never transmissible, and at the time, the UK was trying to figure it out because it was killing so many young people so horribly.

 

I remember because I was in my late teens then, and the Spice Girls were popular, and I remember reading about girls like me who had platform shoes and their first symptom was stumbling, and then they became vegetative and died.

 

It was pretty clear early on vCJD was not transmitting from human to human, but they still had to try to stop the spread until ... it's almost 25 years later now, we have a lot of perspective on what vCJD wound up being. 

 

In terms of the vCJD outbreak, we are like in 1996 right now. We know so little about this virus. Just yesterday, a news story in the Washington Post addressed the clotting issue, which again, is new news. A nurse friend on my FB list came in and said this was something he saw in the hospital, in so many patients. 

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I wasn't eligible for the first check, but that's OK.

 

I don't know, but we've got to the point where people want, and require, handouts.  Where is this money coming from?  Running the printing presses just devalues the currency.  Borrowing it bankrupts the country, but still people want handouts, and lots of them.  Go figure.  The U.S. dollar after all is said and done, will end up being like what the Zimbabwe dollar ended up.  $100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars to buy a loaf of bread.  😕

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12 minutes ago, Burgerwars said:

I wasn't eligible for the first check, but that's OK.

 

I don't know, but we've got to the point where people want, and require, handouts.  Where is this money coming from?  Running the printing presses just devalues the currency.  Borrowing it bankrupts the country, but still people want handouts, and lots of them.  Go figure.  The U.S. dollar after all is said and done, will end up being like what the Zimbabwe dollar ended up.  $100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars to buy a loaf of bread.  😕

 

Who knows. Everyone is so focused on saving lives, the economic damage, it seems, is not important enough yet to discuss.

 

That day is reckoning will show up sooner or later. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Burgerwars said:

I wasn't eligible for the first check, but that's OK.

 

I don't know, but we've got to the point where people want, and require, handouts.  Where is this money coming from?  Running the printing presses just devalues the currency.  Borrowing it bankrupts the country, but still people want handouts, and lots of them.  Go figure.  The U.S. dollar after all is said and done, will end up being like what the Zimbabwe dollar ended up.  $100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars to buy a loaf of bread.  😕

I don't agree with sending this out to everyone within certain income brackets regardless of whether they are impacted by Covid-19 or not.  It's insane.

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8 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

I don't agree with sending this out to everyone within certain income brackets regardless of whether they are impacted by Covid-19 or not.  It's insane.

IDK, at least with the Great Recession $600 checks was 1) issued to everyone and 2) related to tax liabilities which means it was not welfare like this $1200 welfare check

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5 minutes ago, hegemony said:

IDK, at least with the Great Recession $600 checks was 1) issued to everyone and 2) related to tax liabilities which means it was not welfare like this $1200 welfare check

Is there anyway to send it back if you don't want it? We're both on Social Security and it would be direct deposit. 

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4 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

Is there anyway to send it back if you don't want it? We're both on Social Security and it would be direct deposit. 

I need a new coffee roaster if you want to stimulate my household economy with your generous welfare

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3 minutes ago, Achillia said:

I have an issue with referring to stimulus payments in this time of extreme economic crisis as "another welfare check." It's incredibly biased and loaded language. 

I agree, it sounds like a putdown too.

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3 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

I agree, it sounds like a putdown too.

Yup. I am old enough to remember the Reagan years and I know a dog whistle when I hear one. We absolutely must figure out how to help individuals who are affected by this crisis if we want to save "the economy." Who do we think creates the economy?

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28 minutes ago, Achillia said:

I have an issue with referring to stimulus payments in this time of extreme economic crisis as "another welfare check." It's incredibly biased and loaded language. 

Except they are blindly destroying the economy with these things.  It would be different, perhaps, had they actually taken the time to craft something that was capable of differentiating on actual need.  The reality is that MANY people do NOT need helicoptered funds. 

 

Your children's children's children's children will STILL be paying for this fiscal irresponsibility...

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34 minutes ago, Achillia said:

I have an issue with referring to stimulus payments in this time of extreme economic crisis as "another welfare check." It's incredibly biased and loaded language. 

how is it not welfare? it is not being given to all Americans and it is not merely a pre-payment against tax liability.

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33 minutes ago, Achillia said:

 Who do we think creates the economy?

IDK... perhaps household like mine that paid 2019 taxes equal to 251 of these welfare check contributed something to "creation" of the economy. It would not be "welfare" if it was distributed to everyone qualified member of the "economy"

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43 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

I agree, it sounds like a putdown too.

not a put down. how else should it be described? it isn't a loan? it isn't a tax refund advance? It is a wealth transfer from one group of people to another.

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40 minutes ago, hegemony said:

IDK... perhaps household like mine that paid 2019 taxes equal to 251 of these welfare check contributed something to "creation" of the economy. It would not be "welfare" if it was distributed to everyone qualified member of the "economy"

Whoa, you paid over $150k in taxes$!

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34 minutes ago, hegemony said:

not a put down. how else should it be described? it isn't a loan? it isn't a tax refund advance? It is a wealth transfer from one group of people to another.

Well technically you are correct but the name they are actually calling it is Covid-19 stimulus.

 

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4 minutes ago, creditmaze said:

Whoa, you paid over $150k in taxes$!

it is what it is and I'm not complaining. I'm glad this welfare program was created to help the short term economic situation; but it needs to be called what it is not what others want to market it to us.

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