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New collection on old account

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Hi all,

 

I just received a collection notice from a company called FBCS - for Merrick Bank. It’s been at least five or six years since I’ve had the card and that’s if I had the card at all… I honestly can’t remember. I had a bunch of cards a while back. Is there a SOL on how old something can be before someone can try to collect it?

 

This is the first communication I’ve received from FBCS. Should I send them a letter back saying I do not recognize this account?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 ZP

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the SOL varies by state and type of debt. Even if it is out of SOL they can still TRY to collect. SOL is merely a defense you can use if they sue you.

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Depending on how far back your history goes, Merrick was the underwriter of the Hooters Card. 

 

As Hege points out...collection activity can continue ad infinitum but they can only report for a defined period of time.  Further, litigation can continue into perpetuity, as SOL expiry is a defense that must be raised by the Respondent.  Few companies are going to try and litigate beyond the SOL as it is something the courts do not look kindly upon...

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Ok so what is the first step- to dispute as demand verification in writing? I am in the process of doing a refi soon and really prefer it NOT hit my CR. They offered a 33% discount - should I DV and then pay if they validate?

 

Thanks again :)

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Follow the guides;

https://whychat.me/GUIDEBOOK.html

 

( opting out BEFORE you started mortgage hunting could have saved you from the poisoning of your reports by JDBs (junk debt buyers)

https://whychat.me/SOL PROGRAM GUIDE.html

 

In your case as it has not as yet hit your reports you should send the CA this;

https://whychat.me/nottoca.html

 

You can look up your State's SOL and the statute #s on my website

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53 minutes ago, ZIonPels said:

Ok so what is the first step- to dispute as demand verification in writing? I am in the process of doing a refi soon and really prefer it NOT hit my CR. They offered a 33% discount - should I DV and then pay if they validate?

 

Thanks again :)

is it out of SOL? if not, be careful.

 

it may be to old to report to your four major consumer credit reports. This DOES NOT mean it doesn't matter for mortgage underwriting.

 

also, by "notice" do you mean a letter or was is a phone call?

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21 hours ago, hegemony said:

is it out of SOL? if not, be careful.

 

it may be to old to report to your four major consumer credit reports. This DOES NOT mean it doesn't matter for mortgage underwriting.

 

also, by "notice" do you mean a letter or was is a phone call?

It was a "letter".......WC mentioned Hooters and I did have a hooters card back in 06-08' I think...so hard to remember but definitely not in last 4 years I dont think. 

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21 hours ago, Why Chat said:

Follow the guides;

https://whychat.me/GUIDEBOOK.html

 

( opting out BEFORE you started mortgage hunting could have saved you from the poisoning of your reports by JDBs (junk debt buyers)

https://whychat.me/SOL PROGRAM GUIDE.html

 

In your case as it has not as yet hit your reports you should send the CA this;

https://whychat.me/nottoca.html

 

You can look up your State's SOL and the statute #s on my website

WC,

 

Your insight and knowledge is incredible but I sometimes have a hard time fully understanding all of it.  You did a nice job of breaking down the medical collections process in my other thread and I have followed that to a "T".

 

I am having difficulty understanding all the jargon in your letter....I am reticent to send a letter with legal wording, etc without really knowing what it all means. In layman's terms, what is the is the objective of this letter and how will the CA likely respond to it? Is this questioning the SOL of the collection attempt?

 

I did some digging and the letter mentions an account I had that I opened in 2006 that went delinquent in 2008. I have no other communication records with Merrick Bank AFTER 2008. 

 

I have a couple other questions below in bold RED.

 

 

 

Thanks as always WC!!

 

 

[Subscriber]

[Address]

[City state ZIP]
[Collector]

[Address]

[City State ZIP]

[Phone number] 
[Date] PD MAIL #.: What is PD mail?

Re
;  inquiry dated ____: your file # _____ 
Greetings: 
Thank you for your recent inquiry.( If no letter or inquiry, but just a verification in response to the dispute letter, then state; This letter responds to your recent verification of an unknown account on my ( name(s) of CRA(s))credit reports)
This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed. 

The Rules Of Civil Procedure of my State of (State ) provide a Statute Of Limitations limiting the time frame for any legal collection activities.
 

Include the following underlined paragraphs for credit card accounts

Please be advised that under the TILA § 15 a credit card account is legally defined as an "open" account.

The Act is in Title I of the Consumer Credit Protection Act and is implemented by the Federal Reserve Board via Regulation Z (12 C.F.R. Part 226). 

The Regulation has effect and force of federal law.

Open-end Credit Transactions:

Open-end credit includes bank and gas company credit cards, stores' revolving charge accounts, and cash- advance checking accounts.

Typical features: 

Creditors reasonably expect the consumer to make repeated transactions.

Creditors may impose finance charges on the unpaid balance.

As the consumer pays the outstanding balance, the amount of credit is once again available to the consumer


Under my State of __FL______Code #I dont know where to find this_
the subject account has a ____4 (I think this is correct based on your SOL website..)_____ year limit for filing any legal action for collection.

Check your State in the individual State listings to see if it is a "cause of action"(date of first default) or "last item"( date of last mutual activity) State. Use the CORRECT "starting" date for your State 
The starting date of this statute of limitations being the( date of first default) (date of the last mutual activity), with the ORIGINAL CREDITOR of the subject account.

Records indicate that this date on the subject account #___________ with (creditor name) is Where do I find this? Is this the date of the letter the CA recently sent me?.

This notification is formal notice to you that any filing of such action by you, or your representatives or assigns, is therefore time-barred.

Under the FDCPA, any such action, or threat of such action is a violation of the law,and grounds for fines and civil sanctions.

807.  False or misleading representations

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt.
The penalty provisions of the FCRA and FACTA are also in effect, including FACT Act changes final rules effective July 1, 2010. 
Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2)  The false representation of- 

(A)  the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(4)  The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action.

(5)  The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

This notification to you is of applicable legal statutes,codes and laws.Other Federal and State laws may apply.


Under the laws of my State,(statute # if available) continued collection activities, including reporting,verification or reinsertion of accounts. beyond their legal collection date to any consumer credit reporting agency, may be considered extortion and/or fraud and subject to criminal as well as civil prosecution. 

Please note that proof of your receipt of this notice may be used by me or my legal representative in further action.

I also reserve the right to forward a copy of this letter,and any other pertinent material to the _____(CA lawyer's State) Bar Association.

Please also be advised that this letter is not only a formal dispute, but a request that you cease and desist any and all collection activities, and are barred from selling assigning or transferring any and all data regarding this account to any other party subsidiary or affiliate. 

Your receipt of this letter will be considered as having granted consent to the taping of any and all telephone calls to me at my home or business by you or your agents or assigns 

Best regards, 

[Subscriber]print or type name

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You really don’t need to quote the FDCPA or even mention it.  I pt doesn’t make a consumer appear to be more informed or knowledgeable.  
 

It’s the debt collector’s responsibility to know the law.  If he doesn’t know the law and violates it, that’s his problem. 

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4 hours ago, ZIonPels said:

WC,

 

Your insight and knowledge is incredible but I sometimes have a hard time fully understanding all of it.  You did a nice job of breaking down the medical collections process in my other thread and I have followed that to a "T".

 

I am having difficulty understanding all the jargon in your letter....I am reticent to send a letter with legal wording, etc without really knowing what it all means. In layman's terms, what is the is the objective of this letter and how will the CA likely respond to it? Is this questioning the SOL of the collection attempt?

 

I did some digging and the letter mentions an account I had that I opened in 2006 that went delinquent in 2008. I have no other communication records with Merrick Bank AFTER 2008. 

 

I have a couple other questions below in bold RED.

 

 

 

Thanks as always WC!!

Here is an edited copy for your purpose. All data is within the Florida page;

 https://whychat.me/States/state-fl.html

 

[Subscriber]

[Address]

[City state ZIP]
[Collector]

[Address]

[City State ZIP]

[Phone number] 
[Date] PD MAIL #.: What is PD mail?

Priority Mail Delivery ID #

Re
;  inquiry dated ____: your file # _____ 
Greetings: 
Thank you for your recent inquiry
This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed. 

The Rules Of Civil Procedure of my State of (State ) provide a Statute Of Limitations limiting the time frame for any legal collection activities.
 



Under my State of __FL______Code #Section 95.11, Florida Statutes
 

the subject account has a ____4 year limit for filing any legal action for collection.


The starting date of this statute of limitations being the date of first default with the ORIGINAL CREDITOR of the subject account.

Records indicate that this date on the subject account #___________ with (creditor name) is
Yes ; went delinquent in 2008.
This notification is formal notice to you that any filing of such action by you, or your representatives or assigns, is therefore time-barred.

Under the FDCPA, any such action, or threat of such action is a violation of the law,and grounds for fines and civil sanctions.

807.  False or misleading representations

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt.

Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(2)  The false representation of- 

(A)  the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or


(5)  The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

This notification to you is of applicable legal statutes,codes and laws. Other Federal and State laws may apply.


Under the laws of my State, continued collection activities, including reporting,verification or reinsertion of accounts. beyond their legal collection date to any consumer credit reporting agency, may be considered extortion and/or fraud and subject to criminal as well as civil prosecution. 

Please note that proof of your receipt of this notice may be used by me or my legal representative in further action.

I also reserve the right to forward a copy of this letter,and any other pertinent material to the Florida Bar Association.

Please also be advised that this letter is not only a formal dispute, but a request that you cease and desist any and all collection activities, and are barred from selling assigning or transferring any and all data regarding this account to any other party subsidiary or affiliate. 

Your receipt of this letter will be considered as having granted consent to the taping of any and all telephone calls to me at my home or business by you or your agents or assigns 

Best regards, 

[Subscriber]print or type name

 

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Hello all,

 

I was getting ready to send my dispute letters on this 12 year old debt and read the fine print on the settlement letter a little closer. 
 

It states:

 

“Unless you notify this office within 30 days after receiving this notice that you dispute the validity of this debt or any portion thereof, this office will assume the debt is valid. If you notify this office in writing within 30 days from receiving this notice, that the debt or any portion thereof is disputed, this office will obtain verification of the debt or obtain a copy of a judgment and mail you a copy of such judgment or verification. If you request this office in writing within 30 days after receiving this notice, this office will provide you the name and address of the original creditor, it different from the current creditor.

 

XXXX, Inc it’s not obligated to renew this offer.

 

The law limits how long you can be sued on a debt. Because of the age of your debt, our client cannot sue you for it, and we cannot report it to any credit reporting agencies. You may renew the debt and statue of limitations if you do any of the following: make any payment on the debt; sign a paper in which you admit that you owe the debt or what you make a new promise to pay; sign a paper in which you give up or waive your right to stop the creditor from suing you in court to collect the debt.”

 

It’s the last paragraph that caught my attention specifically… I’m wondering what I hope to gain by sending them a letter at all since they cannot sue or report this to a credit agency… Should I just ignore the letter and it’s entirety along with the settlement offer? They can’t sue or report to a CRA - I’m assuming all they can do is waste paper and send me collection letters or settlement offers but if I accepted any of them it could renew the debt or SOL. Can I just ignore the CA completely?

 

 

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You can ignore it or send a cease and desist communication demand (C & D)   Once they receive a C & D, they can only contact you just once more to tell you they are closing their file or taking legal action, but they cannot demand payment.  They won’t tell you they’ll be taking legal action unless they are incredibly stupid.  

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1 hour ago, ZIonPels said:

Should I just ignore the letter and it’s entirety along with the settlement offer?

DO NOT send a dispute letter.  They could attempt to interpret that as acknowledging the debt and reset the SOL.  It would leave you to battle them for potentially years over it.

 

If it were me the only letter I would send would be "Immediately cease and desist contacting me regarding this alleged account. I refuse to pay this." and nothing more.  The cut and paste letters on the internet are loaded with errors and useless.  All they do is tell a creditor that you know how to cut and paste in Microsoft Word.

 

Personally I would just ignore it.  They can't sue or report.  If I received any more mail from them I would not even open it and simply mark it "return to sender" and give it back to them.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CreditSucksNot said:

DO NOT send a dispute letter.  They could attempt to interpret that as acknowledging the debt and reset the SOL.  It would leave you to battle them for potentially years over it.

How does disputing a debt say “this is my debt, and I’m willing to pay”?  

 

 

Edited by Bluesie58

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2 hours ago, CreditSucksNot said:

DO NOT send a dispute letter.  They could attempt to interpret that as acknowledging the debt and reset the SOL.  It would leave you to battle them for potentially years over it.

 

If it were me the only letter I would send would be "Immediately cease and desist contacting me regarding this alleged account. I refuse to pay this." and nothing more.  The cut and paste letters on the internet are loaded with errors and useless.  All they do is tell a creditor that you know how to cut and paste in Microsoft Word.

 

Personally I would just ignore it.  They can't sue or report.  If I received any more mail from them I would not even open it and simply mark it "return to sender" and give it back to them.

A properly worded SPECIFIC dispute is NOT something that will reset a limitations expiration period. 

 

That being said, something that is so old as to preclude reporting is easiest addressed with an FOAD that does not acknowledge any merit to the claim.  Again, with some manner of specificity, this should effectively kill the matter and preclude it from being sold as the properly worded letter placed them on notice of a specific dispute.  Any subsequent purchaser is then acquiring a hog...

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Still trying to decide whether to ignore or send FOAD letter.

 

My goal is for it to simply go away - not necessarily to incite them to do some that is suable. 

 

If I go the FOAD route - how does this sound?

 

 

File Number 1234567
Lot Number  1234567 ( same as file number)
 
 
To whom it may concern,
 
This letter is in response to your  letter dated 04/16/20 , post marked xx/xx/xxxx, and received on xx/xx/xxxx,  regarding the above stated account number.
 
Be advised that this IS a refusal to pay, and a notice that your claim is disputed.
 

I have checked with my State's Attorney General and verified that the Statute of Limitations for this type of debt in FL has expired. 

 
This letter is to save us a great deal of time by telling you this alleged debt is out of the statute of limitations in the ( my state)  . Please cease all communication at this time other then to inform me you are stopping your collection efforts.. I consider this matter closed from this point forward.

Any other communication regarding this debt will be taken as a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Please advise the current owner of this alleged account  that they are not to sell, transfer, assign, or share any information about me or this alleged debt with anyone else including the credit reporting agencies.
 
Also, please be advised that any calls to my telephone, my cell phone, or any other telephone or cell phone belonging to anyone else are inconvenient, and if permission has been granted to call any number, it is hereby revoked.
 
Sincerely,
 
Me
 
Thanks again for all the insight -

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Posted (edited)

Unless you have a specific dispute, why not just “cease and desist all communications”?   That serves the purpose.  Anything else is a waste.  
 

You don’t to need inform them about the SOL. They already told you it’s time-barred.  

 

1 hour ago, ZIonPels said:

Please advise the current owner of this alleged account  that they are not to sell, transfer, assign, or share any information about me or this alleged debt with anyone else including the credit reporting agencies.

They are allowed to sell the account if they choose to do so.  Telling them not to won’t stop them. 

Edited by Bluesie58

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1 hour ago, Bluesie58 said:

Unless you have a specific dispute, why not just “cease and desist all communications”?   That serves the purpose.  Anything else is a waste.  
 

You don’t to need inform them about the SOL. They already told you it’s time-barred.  

 

They are allowed to sell the account if they choose to do so.  Telling them not to won’t stop them. 

1) they will be laughing for a while since they KNOW that nobody is calling AND getting an answer from an OAG during the shutdowns...

2) The person who actually took the time to tailor a letter would be including language related to the transfer of protected personal identifying information (one of the current buzzwords recognized in a number of areas of law).

3) Some want to be spoonfed instead of taking the time to do things properly.

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2 hours ago, centex said:

A properly worded SPECIFIC dispute is NOT something that will reset a limitations expiration period. 

True.  I should be more clear.  Typically the dispute letters like the one being planned above are 60-100% manure.  Stating you are disputing and want validation in paragraph one then cease and desist in the last paragraph defeats the purpose.  An unscrupulous CA COULD potentially use the ambiguity and riddled errors to reset the SOL then try and claim bona fide error if pursued by the consumer for it.

 

I would not want to send ANY letter that left the door open.  I do not advocate using rubber stamp repeating letters that creditors have seen thousands of times and only cause a snerk instead of a required response.

 

I am not saying that sending a dispute necessarily does restart the SOL I am saying that doing something ambiguous COULD open the door for an unscrupulous collector to take advantage and ultimately it is the consumer who takes the hit to their credit reports/scores and hast to do the substantial leg work to undo the damage.  It is far too easier to simply state cease and desist I refuse to pay.  If the continue to collect you have them dead to rights after that as there was no mistaking the consumer's intent.

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