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hegemony

Why people with student debt are refusing to repay it

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Come on now ... we've all made bad decisions.  Doesn't anyone have a smidgen of empathy here?

 

So here's my proposal: 

 

1)  Allow anyone who regrets their educational choice/financing to walk from the debt.

 

2)  Cover the cost of forgiveness program by implementing a tax, per capita, that will amortize the debt over (say) 15 years.  Each person is allocated a pro rata portion of the debt.

 

3)  Grant a "Smart Choice" tax credit equal to 100% of the pro rata tax to each person who either was smart enough to avoid for-profit education, or for one reason or another, has paid their education loans, or didn't chose to walk under step "1".

 

4)  Adjust the per capita tax to spread the cost of that tax credit over the population that didn't qualify for it.

 

 

Should I run for office?

 

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You should run for your life with that one. Give me one good reason why I or anyone else should have to pay for somebody else's kid's education? How about this..... the govt. should get out of the lending business. Or, how about making the universities stop charging tuition and / or paying themselves huge salaries? The basketball coach at a state run university in my state makes almost 2 million a year.

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1 hour ago, legaleagle2012 said:

You should run for your life with that one. Give me one good reason why I or anyone else should have to pay for somebody else's kid's education? How about this..... the govt. should get out of the lending business. Or, how about making the universities stop charging tuition and / or paying themselves huge salaries? The basketball coach at a state run university in my state makes almost 2 million a year.

 

While I imagine the "proposal" math might be daunting, it seems that you missed a step or two ...

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Deadbeats gonna deadbeat. 

 

Nobody forced them to take a loan.  Nobody forced them to sign a document that carries with it a presumption that they read and understood the terms OF the Agreement.  Nobody forced them to take classes for a major that won't land them a decent position. 

 

Plenty of us went to school, even taking loans to do so, and made our way in the real world and paid our loans.  Some of us even did so while ALSO making payments on things like *gasp* housing and vehicles.  We did so by limiting our expenditures to NEEDS, not wants.  Nobody NEEDS to have the latest thing in phone technology.  Nobody NEEDS to have a new car.  There are PLENTY of very viable phone options out there that cost very little and there are PLENTY of viable vehicle options that could provide fresh-out-of-school adults with reliable transportation. 

 

The handout mentality has GOT to stop.  The practice of IRRESPONSIBLE fiscal habits of alleged adults HAS to change. 

 

Maybe we SHOULD bring back some manner of debtor prison...don't want to pay your loans? Fine, you get to provide hundreds and thousands of hours of service in the community picking up trash.  More able-bodied persons can build roads or otherwise work on infrastructure projects.  At least THEN you are doing something to contribute to the community...

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36 minutes ago, centex said:

 

 

 

 

The handout mentality has GOT to stop.  The practice of IRRESPONSIBLE fiscal habits of alleged adults HAS to change. 

 

 

agreed but it also must include corporate welfare hand-outs to for-profit fly-by-night "technical" and "professional" schools that claim anyone can be an airline mechanic, hair stylist, or "artist"

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1 hour ago, centex said:

Deadbeats gonna deadbeat. 

 

Nobody forced them to take a loan.  Nobody forced them to sign a document that carries with it a presumption that they read and understood the terms OF the Agreement.  Nobody forced them to take classes for a major that won't land them a decent position.

 

Absolutely right on the mark ...

 

That said, this subject has far too many aspects and nuances to broach a reasoned discussion in a forum such as this.  (Which is why I submitted by broadly "tongue-in-cheek" round-trip debt proposal; I didn't bother festooning it with "smiley's" -- they were redundant).

 

I'll note one of those facets that bear consideration, your point notwithstanding:

 

Let's start with the fact that much of the 30/under crowd meets with considerable low expectations from many of this group's members (and there's little argument to the opposite).  Limited life experience and an increased tendency to be attracted to glittering things can be relied on to foster poor decision making. 

 

Now, if they manage to grab their parent's dough and blow it on an education that yields disappointment, that largely ends up being between them and their folks, as far as I'm concerned.

 

But let's talk about a for-profit institution like the various "Institutes" for Art, who suggest that their program will successfully prepare the prospective student for a professional job in the arts and adds the enticement, "and, by the way, you can take student loans guaranteed by the US for your tuition, supplies, and <maybe> housing expenses".

 

The student, their attention diverted from their i-phone or fidget-spinner or whatever,  perks up and thinks, "Hey, if the US will back my loan to attend, that's a decent endorsement.  They wouldn't back a scam!'

 

So they buy in, part and parcel.  They finish the program and don't find employers lining up to hire via the non-existent career placement office.  In fact, they find out that the school has since been investigated and found to have a negligible placement records when it comes to jobs successfully attaining a position for which a simple high-school degree isn't sufficient qualification.

 

Speaking from a taxpayers perspective, it sure as hell seems that a fraud has been perpetuated, and that where my tax dollars are involved, I sure as well want my money back!

 

While force isn't involved in the student's decision (just a certain amount of calculated inducement of someone who's been targeted because of their inexperience), I haven't had any choice in the allocation of my tax dollars to this *Admin does not allow masked profanity. Please read our Terms of Service.* scheme.  And, you know what, all things considered, even if we're not talking about my kid in this scenario, I'd be pissed on their behalf over this crap fest and while I may not agree with them withholding their student loan payments, I'd want them to see some satisfaction out of the mess as well.

 

<Bowing out of the thread with that.  Any take that someone has on this is valid in my book, within the confines that this forum presents as venue >

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While there is no question that the "Institute for Inflated Useless Cost-incurring Nonsense" is a scam for the most part, this is NOT a new thing.  It has been well-known for more than a decade.  Yet these idiots CONTINUE to sign up with those programs. 

 

That being said, I would certainly have preferred that the DOE never got into the business of loan guarantees or even the administration and oversight of them, but they were goaded into it by the whining over the private entities that were writing the loans at 10-15% (which at one point, was actually less than many banks were doing conventional loans)...kids today probably have no clue about the 20%+ interest rates that actually existed 40 years ago during the Carter Administration.  

 

I remember the crush of people around arenas on campus shortly before semesters would begin...they were filled with the kids going through the assembly line process to get an actual paper check.  Whoever thought it was a bright idea to give an 18-20yo kid a check for $7500 twice a year on nothing more than a signature should be in an institution somewhere...tuition and books were less than $3K per semester and the housing DEFINITELY was NOT setting them back a grand a month.  It was being viewed AS free money.  The bars certainly did well though... 

 

The federal involvement at least made sense vis-a-vis the ability to snatch refund checks when someone defaulted.  However, the refunds NEVER rose to the amount that the deadbeat had defaulted upon. 

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From the cited article:

 

”Sandy Nurse doesn’t see why she needs to be $120,000 in debt “just for trying to improve my understanding of the world.

 

That attitude is self-explanatory.  

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If not for student loans, Crash Test Dummy with Hair and I could have never afforded to live in a 14th-floor apartment just off Lake Shore Drive, with unobstructed views of the downtown Chicago skyline and/or Lake Michigan from every room, while also plying me with enough gin to put up with him for two years.

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I trust the TOS warning that was just imposed on the thread isn't specifically directed at any post in particular.  Thus far, I don't think anyone has encroached on political or personal insult turf.  (Centex's "Carter" ref is purely a time referience.)

 

Still, guys, let's try and keep this thread within appropriate bounds.  I'm sure any topic like this has Marv (or other moderator) posed to hit the emergency brake at the first hint of discord.  Speaking for myself, I'm intrigued with the perspectives that have been shared.

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18 hours ago, shifter said:

Fluff piece misleading the reader until the last paragraph. 

Agree.  I think I'm too late by decades, but if all we have to do is claim your college education was a waste, where can I file to get a refund?

 

I read stuff like this and wonder if I was an aberration.  I wasn't the best student, but when I finally got serious about things, I did it to get a degree.  I proved to myself I could do that.  It was a lot of part time evening classes while working full time.  I got a degree in a field that has little to do with the career I'm in now (I work in I.T.), and is in a subject that some might think is worthless, but I have no regrets.  

Edited by Burgerwars

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3 hours ago, cashnocredit said:

I'm so disappointed.

 

When I saw the "Special Surveillance" alert I thought it might be something juicy.

 

But no, Just a bunch of thoughtful and or funny comments.

BITE ME APPLE JUICE!!!!!

 

 

 

//runs away/// :lol:

Edited by hegemony

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15 hours ago, legaleagle2012 said:

You should run for your life with that one. Give me one good reason why I or anyone else should have to pay for somebody else's kid's education? How about this..... the govt. should get out of the lending business. Or, how about making the universities stop charging tuition and / or paying themselves huge salaries? The basketball coach at a state run university in my state makes almost 2 million a year.

Coaches' salaries and funding for athletics in general has gotten completely out of hand, especially for the football programs. Complicating this problem is the growing issue of whether athletes should be treated as employees.

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The topic basically comes down to an issue of personal responsibility in money management. Some people have it, others do not. I've seen countless threads on all boards where students drop out in their last year, and want to know how they can get out of paying their SLs while they run a cash business on the side and put their new Camaro in their GF's name.

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12 hours ago, Burdell said:

Coaches' salaries and funding for athletics in general has gotten completely out of hand, especially for the football programs. Complicating this problem is the growing issue of whether athletes should be treated as employees.

For a lot of the schools that pay the coaches some hefty salaries, the athletics programs are largely self-sustaining.  As such, it is NOT the tuition incomes that covers the cost of the coach and the staff.  The coaches are still viewed as State employees (in most instances), which puts them in line for some nice retirement benefits if they have any substantial time AT the school (a lot of State retirement payouts are keyed to the average salary for the highest three years of employment).  A school paying seven figures per annum to a coach is ALSO likely one that has waiting lists for season tickets to the big programs AND has a hefty PSL attached to those seats.  I gave up my seats for women's basketball at Texas a few years into the Goestenkors era but, as I recall, my PSL was not much different from the tickets themselves...but they WERE nice seats (front row, center court).  

 

Now the players being paid...THAT is going to wind up causing schools to increase tuition to cover those costs and WILL give legitimacy to the complaints about the cost of athletics. 

 

However, in the grand scheme of the annual costs an incoming/current student is paying to attend a school, very little is/was earmarked for athletics. 

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How many of us filed a BK or skipped paying a charge off debt because the creditor would not PFD or there would be no score gain benefit.

Edited by dvd
.

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2 hours ago, dvd said:

How many of us filed a BK or skipped paying a charge off debt because the creditor would not PFD or there would be no score gain benefit.

103

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Topic Under Special Surveillance Please be aware that management is watching this topic closely and it is at high risk of being closed.  Any members who violate our terms of service once this tag has been applied to a thread will be immediately warned and, depending on the mood of the administrators, may be restricted from posting for 24 hours.  Please consider your response carefully.

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