Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
IndyPoolPlayer

How Americans fall into medical bankruptcy

Recommended Posts

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt

 

Quote

“I paid my $300 copay. After the surgery, I started receiving all these invoices and came to find out the only thing covered was my bed because the hospital was out of network,” said LeClair. “My bills were hundreds of thousands of dollars, so I had no choice but to file bankruptcy.”

So this patient didn't check their insurance carrier's information to find out if the hospital was in network or not before scheduling the procedure?

 

Quote

Bankruptcy can also make it difficult to find employment given that many employers will disqualify a candidate with a bankruptcy filing found from a background check.

If you're in certain fields like banking and finance, sure. But not in general like the article tries to make one believe.

 

Quote

I had thousands of dollars in various medical debt which made the majority of my claim. The last bill I got that really pushed me toward the bankruptcy was for a routine lab test that my insurance refused to approve because of a billing mistake. That bill was about a thousand dollars

And you didn't go back on the lab for the billing error and have the lab resubmit with the corrected billing information?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shame on you Indy...you act like you expect people to be capable of using some modicum of common sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt

 

1.  So this patient didn't check their insurance carrier's information to find out if the hospital was in network or not before scheduling the procedure?

 

2.  If you're in certain fields like banking and finance, sure. But not in general like the article tries to make one believe.

 

3.  And you didn't go back on the lab for the billing error and have the lab resubmit with the corrected billing information?

 

1.  RIF: "LeClair was told by the hospital they accepted her employer-based health insurance."  If the hospital says they accept your insurance, nobody but an anal retentive, porch surfer in a pink-flowered cheap jacket will waste time trying to get their insurance company's confirmation.  

 

I've had a few instances where doctors and dentists have displayed the TriCare logo and stated they accept TriCare and then later they bill me saying that they only accept TriCare for certain specific things and not others.  Fortunately for me, TriCare is a MAB and will force the provider to either eat the charges or lose the ability to accept TriCare patients.  

 

2.  Bullsh!t.  In the real world, an employer can refuse to hire you for any reason they want to.  Any reason.  It is sooooo easy to justify not hiring / firing a person even for reasons prohibited by law.  My wife's company does it all the time and it's one of the top five largest companies on the planet.  

 

3.  Not so easy.  Some simple mistakes are easy to fix, but not others.  

 

A friend of mine has had thyroid cancer and needed radiation.  They focused the radiation on a certain small area in his neck and they make you a mask that you wear to control the area subject to radiation.  They told him there are two types of masks and one costs $7,000 and the other costs $27,000.  They said his insurance would cover either.  He chose the $7k one.  They billed him $27k and his insurance company refused to pay.  They said that the lab made a mistake.  He contacted the lab and said there indeed was a mistake.  They listed the right price, but the wrong mask.  Resubmitted, again the insurance company refused saying they don't cover that mask because it's deemed experimental.  

 

Then they screwed up on how many radiation sessions he needed.  His doctor says she ordered 12.  The lab says she ordered 17.  They billed him for an additional 5.  Each 15 minute session costs $29,000.  Yeah twenty-nine fvkking thousand dollars for 15 minutes -- only of which the actual radiation was a small fraction of those 15 minutes.  

 

The cute thing is that his "insurance" is Medicare.  With his co-pays and supplemental out-of-pocket costs of around $25k (no, Medicare does NOT mean free medical care), he was on the hook for almost $200,000.  Instead of adding a couple thousand more to the tally by filing bk, he simply unmingled his finances from those of his wife, made himself judgment proof and laughed at their threats to sue him.  And he is winning.  

 

It is extremely easy to see how people can be financially FITA by medical expenses.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, PotO said:

 

1.  RIF: "LeClair was told by the hospital they accepted her employer-based health insurance."  If the hospital says they accept your insurance, nobody but an anal retentive, porch surfer in a pink-flowered cheap jacket will waste time trying to get their insurance company's confirmation.  

 

I've had a few instances where doctors and dentists have displayed the TriCare logo and stated they accept TriCare and then later they bill me saying that they only accept TriCare for certain specific things and not others.  Fortunately for me, TriCare is a MAB and will force the provider to either eat the charges or lose the ability to accept TriCare patients.  

 

2.  Bullsh!t.  In the real world, an employer can refuse to hire you for any reason they want to.  Any reason.  It is sooooo easy to justify not hiring / firing a person even for reasons prohibited by law.  My wife's company does it all the time and it's one of the top five largest companies on the planet.  

 

3.  Not so easy.  Some simple mistakes are easy to fix, but not others.  

 

A friend of mine has had thyroid cancer and needed radiation.  They focused the radiation on a certain small area in his neck and they make you a mask that you wear to control the area subject to radiation.  They told him there are two types of masks and one costs $7,000 and the other costs $27,000.  They said his insurance would cover either.  He chose the $7k one.  They billed him $27k and his insurance company refused to pay.  They said that the lab made a mistake.  He contacted the lab and said there indeed was a mistake.  They listed the right price, but the wrong mask.  Resubmitted, again the insurance company refused saying they don't cover that mask because it's deemed experimental.  

 

Then they screwed up on how many radiation sessions he needed.  His doctor says she ordered 12.  The lab says she ordered 17.  They billed him for an additional 5.  Each 15 minute session costs $29,000.  Yeah twenty-nine fvkking thousand dollars for 15 minutes -- only of which the actual radiation was a small fraction of those 15 minutes.  

 

The cute thing is that his "insurance" is Medicare.

1. The hospital isn't the one writing the check paying for the patient's services, the insurance company does that. The hospital is in the business of making money. PERIOD. The hospital will tell you what you want to hear to get you to perform the procedures at their facility instead of going to another hospital's facility. Never mind the obvious leftward political slant of the linked article, you are your own consumer for health care. It pays to spend a few minutes verifying things before taking major health care steps on elective health care procedures. And when I say elective, I mean procedures where you're not being rushed into the hospital's ER because of a massive CVA, MI, GSW, etc.

 

Would I believe the word of the body shop owner when I am told my auto insurance will pay for all of the shop's expenses? No. I'd check with my insurance agent to make sure the shop was in the carrier's network of shops, etc.

 

2. Most employers just ignore you these days when you apply for work. Even after interviews you just never hear from many employers, yay, nay, or otherwise. Employers who deny employment to those who declared BK usually say so up front. And its not just BK - its age, race, gender, ZIP code, you name it. I should know a little about this as I was UE earlier this year and experienced it all.

 

3. Refer you to #1 - Who is "they"? The hospital, lab, or clinic? Again, they are in the business of selling you treatments and all the pieces that go along with that treatment. They aren't the ones writing the check paying for said treatment. If the doctor prescribed one thing, and the lab processed another - that to me looks like a malpractice suit in the offering. How many sessions were actually performed? The lab could have overdosed the patient with the radiation and caused other problems.

 

"Medicare" and "Medicare for All" - This forum's ToS prohibits me from discussing this any further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

1. The hospital isn't the one writing the check paying for the patient's services, the insurance company does that. The hospital is in the business of making money. PERIOD. The hospital will tell you what you want to hear to get you to perform the procedures at their facility instead of going to another hospital's facility. Never mind the obvious leftward political slant of the linked article, you are your own consumer for health care. It pays to spend a few minutes verifying things before taking major health care steps on elective health care procedures. And when I say elective, I mean procedures where you're not being rushed into the hospital's ER because of a massive CVA, MI, GSW, etc.

 

Would I believe the word of the body shop owner when I am told my auto insurance will pay for all of the shop's expenses? No. I'd check with my insurance agent to make sure the shop was in the carrier's network of shops, etc.

 

2. Most employers just ignore you these days when you apply for work. Even after interviews you just never hear from many employers, yay, nay, or otherwise. Employers who deny employment to those who declared BK usually say so up front. And its not just BK - its age, race, gender, ZIP code, you name it. I should know a little about this as I was UE earlier this year and experienced it all.

 

3. Refer you to #1 - Who is "they"? The hospital, lab, or clinic? Again, they are in the business of selling you treatments and all the pieces that go along with that treatment. They aren't the ones writing the check paying for said treatment. If the doctor prescribed one thing, and the lab processed another - that to me looks like a malpractice suit in the offering. How many sessions were actually performed? The lab could have overdosed the patient with the radiation and caused other problems.

 

"Medicare" and "Medicare for All" - This forum's ToS prohibits me from discussing this any further.


1.  In your world, perhaps.  People will get second opinions on a doctor's recommended course of action, but few will question the hospital when they tell you about costs.  Just like nobody says, "Gee, I bet this procedure is on sale over at the other hospital so maybe I'll go there instead."  When they say, "this is covered by insurance", people believe them.  Then there is the definition of "this".  "This" might include the actual doctor's five minutes of cutting and sewing, but it might not include the air the doctor breathes, his rubber gloves, the nurses, the x-ray after he finishes, the pillow on your bed or the clock on the wall.  Calling your insurance company before hand is simply crazy.  Assuming those idiots know what they are doing or don't lie to you, they don't even know what's covered or not until they get the bill and their team of cheapstakes pour over it.  If you can get clear and accurate answers from your insurance company in a simple phone call, you must be insured by Burger King.  
 

2.  Right.  They do ignore you.  Not sure about other companies, but two of the largest will not hire anybody with a known bk even for housecleaning positions.  They will never tell you why.  Simply they ignore you.  Now should they do that?  I'm no expert, but I think they shouldn't.  Even in high security positions and finance roles, I think it should be on a case by case decision.  
 

3.  Sure, they messed up.  It could have caused major problems.  It would have been a nice lawsuit.  But for less important errors, you are stuck.  Assuming you even know they messed up, they will bill you.  They will send it to collections.  It will hit your credit reports.  You will have to fight them -- if you even know how to.  Billing errors are extremely common in the medical field.  Extremely common.  And probably most of the time they are never even caught by the patient.  

 

I think the article didn't exaggerate the issues.  Medical billing is a fook story.  Most patients don't even catch it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medical billing can be even more of a fook story than medical care itself.  If you've never experienced a medical billing error, I'd be surprised if it wasn't because you've never been to a doctor.  
 

We were home on leave.  After a particularly strenuous night, I decided to go downstairs for a bottle of cold water and a bowl of fruit.  Instead of turning on all the lights, I used a nightlight and a small stairway light that is more than sufficient to see and navigate.  Everything was fine until the final step and then ... boom.  My son left his shoes at the bottom of the steps instead in the proper area.  
 

Everything fine, though.  Fell, but no big deal (well, except for clobbering my son and leaving him in pain).  Following day (Sunday) foot all swollen and painful.  Now, I suppose I could have gone to Nellis AFB for an ER visit, but it's on the complete other side of Vegas and I didn't feel like driving that far.  For those that don't realize, Las Vegas is an oasis, but a very large one.  I wasn't about to break one of the Ten Commandments and be a passenger in a car driven by my wife.  So we decided to go to one of the hundreds of private ERs in Vegas.  Maybe Hege remembers their name, but I think they are called something like Urgent Care.  Going to a regular hospital ER would be a nightmare. 
 

My "insurance" is great.  I can go anywhere out of network if there isn't a network facility within 45 minutes and get 100% reimbursement.  Urgent Care was great.  Staff was great.  Chinese doctor barely spoke English, but no big deal.  Visit, x-rays and prescription about $150.  They referred me to an orthopedic specialist to make sure everything ok.  
 

Next day had appointment at Desert Orthopedic.  Doctor was superb there.  Anyhow, when you check in they ask about insurance.  They don't accept TriCare, but no big deal.  I'll pay and deal with TriCare later.  They tell me an office visit is $200, but first time patients pay $300 in case there is anything extra they need to do (x-ray or whatever) and, if not, the extra is refunded at the end.  So they swipe my card for $300.  
 

See the doctor.  Easy two minutes for him to see foot not broken.  It will be ok in a couple of days.  He looks at x-ray Urgent Care sent him.  We chat for a couple of minutes about life in Vegas and he hands me the medical form.  He notices I'm paying cash and says there is a cash discount and writes in big letters "cash" on the form. 
 

I go to the cashier.  She refunds me $100.  I ask her about the cash discount the doctor mentioned and she looks at the form and says, "Oh, that's right."  She refunds me another $50.  And I go home.

 

Three months later I get a bill for $250.  It's a minor miracle even I got the bill to begin with since I'm only home on leave once or twice a year to see any mail.  The bill conveniently claws back the $50 cash discount.  Then it bills me $100 for an x-ray and $100 for reading the x-ray.  WTF!!  I could have just given the new bill to TriCare and they'd pay me, but this was absurd.  I called the billing specialists at the doctor's office and found the idiot responsible.  She says, they don't have a cash discount.  I told her she needs to talk to the doctor. He says there is and wrote it on the form.  She checks and says I'm right. Then I tell her they took no x-ray.  The x-ray was one I gave them from Urgent Care.  She checks and says I'm right.  But I still owe $100 because doctor read x-ray.  WTF?????

 

So I decide to investigate.  Seems that they can charge you just for reading an x-ray.  In all the little codes they use to describe treatment, there is one for consult.  One for consult + x-ray reading.  I look up the code on my form, and it's only for consult.  Not the code for consult + x-ray reading.  I called the idiot back.  I ask her how she knows there was an x-ray reading charge and she says they always charge that.  The doctor always charges.  I ask her about the codes and she says the doctor always uses the code for consult + x-ray reading.  I ask her if she actually read my code and she says no.  She doesn't need to because it's always the code for charging for reading the x-ray.  I tell her to actually look at mine.  "Oh, that's strange," she says.  The doctor only charged the consult.  We will take that $100 off your bill.  Consider everything ok, you don't owe anything.  
 

I demanded she send me a new and corrected bill saying I owed nothing.  Can never trust these people over the phone.  She would have sent the bill to collections anyhow and then it's just her word against mine.  I told her I better get the new and corrected bill within a week or there will be hell to pay.  I got it in three days.

 

Now imagine some poor soul who doesn't have great insurance.  Who has complex medical issues on his medical bill.  Who deals with a hospital with a zillion codes on the bill -- codes for each bottle of water he drinks.  You know it is a 100% given they will fook up the bill.  The patient won't know their butt from a hole in the ground.  All they will see -- in my case -- is a $150 office visit turn into a $400 expense.  Maybe for us $250 is nothing, but there are people that $250 is a boatload of money for.  Then you add a typical insurance company in the picture and that one moron billing specialist at the doctor's office turns into a whole platoon of richardheads who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.  
 

I'm surprised that 35% of the people who have ever seen a doctor haven't gone bankrupt.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, PotO said:

Medical billing can be even more of a fook story than medical care itself.  If you've never experienced a medical billing error, I'd be surprised if it wasn't because you've never been to a doctor.  
 

We were home on leave.  After a particularly strenuous night, I decided to go downstairs for a bottle of cold water and a bowl of fruit.  Instead of turning on all the lights, I used a nightlight and a small stairway light that is more than sufficient to see and navigate.  Everything was fine until the final step and then ... boom.  My son left his shoes at the bottom of the steps instead in the proper area.  
 

Everything fine, though.  Fell, but no big deal (well, except for clobbering my son and leaving him in pain).  Following day (Sunday) foot all swollen and painful.  Now, I suppose I could have gone to Nellis AFB for an ER visit, but it's on the complete other side of Vegas and I didn't feel like driving that far.  For those that don't realize, Las Vegas is an oasis, but a very large one.  I wasn't about to break one of the Ten Commandments and be a passenger in a car driven by my wife.  So we decided to go to one of the hundreds of private ERs in Vegas.  Maybe Hege remembers their name, but I think they are called something like Urgent Care.  Going to a regular hospital ER would be a nightmare. 
 

My "insurance" is great.  I can go anywhere out of network if there isn't a network facility within 45 minutes and get 100% reimbursement.  Urgent Care was great.  Staff was great.  Chinese doctor barely spoke English, but no big deal.  Visit, x-rays and prescription about $150.  They referred me to an orthopedic specialist to make sure everything ok.  
 

Next day had appointment at Desert Orthopedic.  Doctor was superb there.  Anyhow, when you check in they ask about insurance.  They don't accept TriCare, but no big deal.  I'll pay and deal with TriCare later.  They tell me an office visit is $200, but first time patients pay $300 in case there is anything extra they need to do (x-ray or whatever) and, if not, the extra is refunded at the end.  So they swipe my card for $300.  
 

See the doctor.  Easy two minutes for him to see foot not broken.  It will be ok in a couple of days.  He looks at x-ray Urgent Care sent him.  We chat for a couple of minutes about life in Vegas and he hands me the medical form.  He notices I'm paying cash and says there is a cash discount and writes in big letters "cash" on the form. 
 

I go to the cashier.  She refunds me $100.  I ask her about the cash discount the doctor mentioned and she looks at the form and says, "Oh, that's right."  She refunds me another $50.  And I go home.

 

Three months later I get a bill for $250.  It's a minor miracle even I got the bill to begin with since I'm only home on leave once or twice a year to see any mail.  The bill conveniently claws back the $50 cash discount.  Then it bills me $100 for an x-ray and $100 for reading the x-ray.  WTF!!  I could have just given the new bill to TriCare and they'd pay me, but this was absurd.  I called the billing specialists at the doctor's office and found the idiot responsible.  She says, they don't have a cash discount.  I told her she needs to talk to the doctor. He says there is and wrote it on the form.  She checks and says I'm right. Then I tell her they took no x-ray.  The x-ray was one I gave them from Urgent Care.  She checks and says I'm right.  But I still owe $100 because doctor read x-ray.  WTF?????

 

So I decide to investigate.  Seems that they can charge you just for reading an x-ray.  In all the little codes they use to describe treatment, there is one for consult.  One for consult + x-ray reading.  I look up the code on my form, and it's only for consult.  Not the code for consult + x-ray reading.  I called the idiot back.  I ask her how she knows there was an x-ray reading charge and she says they always charge that.  The doctor always charges.  I ask her about the codes and she says the doctor always uses the code for consult + x-ray reading.  I ask her if she actually read my code and she says no.  She doesn't need to because it's always the code for charging for reading the x-ray.  I tell her to actually look at mine.  "Oh, that's strange," she says.  The doctor only charged the consult.  We will take that $100 off your bill.  Consider everything ok, you don't owe anything.  
 

I demanded she send me a new and corrected bill saying I owed nothing.  Can never trust these people over the phone.  She would have sent the bill to collections anyhow and then it's just her word against mine.  I told her I better get the new and corrected bill within a week or there will be hell to pay.  I got it in three days.

 

Now imagine some poor soul who doesn't have great insurance.  Who has complex medical issues on his medical bill.  Who deals with a hospital with a zillion codes on the bill -- codes for each bottle of water he drinks.  You know it is a 100% given they will fook up the bill.  The patient won't know their butt from a hole in the ground.  All they will see -- in my case -- is a $150 office visit turn into a $400 expense.  Maybe for us $250 is nothing, but there are people that $250 is a boatload of money for.  Then you add a typical insurance company in the picture and that one moron billing specialist at the doctor's office turns into a whole platoon of richardheads who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.  
 

I'm surprised that 35% of the people who have ever seen a doctor haven't gone bankrupt.  

it is wild west here when it comes to medical care and especially billing. we pay for a private doctor who doesn't take insurance; I can call her 24/7. Funniest was when I was sick, sinus infection, on Maui and called to get an Rx instead of hunting for an urgent care on the island. Turns out she was living it up over on Kona. She says I have great insurance... as long as I never get sick.

 

Recently she referred me to a specialist who ran a ton of tests paid for by insurance, no problems. Although my insurance is so stupid that before most MRIs are approved you first need an x-ray, even for something that x-rays can image. This means I pay one co-pay for a useless x-ray and another for the needed MRI. The specialist sent me to some double secret probation specialist (who is on my insurance) but insurance refused to pay because the original referral (two MDs ago) was not in-network and that I need to go see whatever random doctor I've been assigned by the insurer. Stupid thing about it they didn't want me to have all the tests done again. Stupid because if I go see their in-network GP instead of my high-brow MD-for-hire it costs them money for something I already paid my MD for. I called and told them to pound sand and pointed out how stupid they were being ( 1) they paid for the tests by the first specialist and 2) having me see their MD is a waste of their money). I finally got through to some vice president Jethro and the penny dropped and double-secret-probation specialist tests are approved.

 

Last month I thought I might have strep so, on a Sunday, call my MD. She's out of town and suggests urgent care. Urgent care says my co-pay is $35. Fine, here's my visa... last week I receive a refund check from the urgent care for $35 since now they say there is no co-pay. How much did running my card and then cutting refund check cost these bozos?

 

On that visit to urgent care there was a drug addict screaming at the fresh-out-of-the-200th-ranked medical school Burmese doctor that "all I need is a prescription for painkillers!!!!!" and on and on about how he doesn't need to answer questions about his medical history. As I was checking out some lady who burnt too many brain cells huffing starter fluid was insisting that this location does testing for her food handler permit (they don't and never have says the desk lady). This crazy lady then proceeds to scream expletives and throws the container of pens on the floor. Good times!

Edited by hegemony
fat fingers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hegemony said:

it is wild west here when it comes to medical care and especially billing. we pay for a private doctor who doesn't take insurance; I can call her 24/7. Funniest was when I was sick, sinus infection, on Maui and called to get an Rx instead of hunting for an urgent care on the island. Turns out she was living it up over on Kona. She says I have great insurance... as long as I never get sick.

 

Recently she referred me to a specialist who ran a ton of tests paid for by insurance, no problems. Although my insurance is so stupid that before most MRIs are approved you first need an x-ray, even for something that x-rays can image. This means I pay one co-pay for a useless x-ray and another for the needed MRI. The specialist sent me to some double secret probation specialist (who is on my insurance) but insurance refused to pay because the original referral (two MDs ago) was not in-network and that I need to go see whatever random doctor I've been assigned by the insurer. Stupid thing about it they didn't want me to have all the tests done again. Stupid because if I go see their in-network GP instead of my high-brow MD-for-hire it costs them money for something I already paid my MD for. I called and told them to pound sand and pointed out how stupid they were being ( 1) they paid for the tests by the first specialist and 2) having me see their MD is a waste of their money). I finally got through to some vice president Jethro and the penny dropped and double-secret-probation specialist tests are approved.

 

Last month I thought I might have strep so, on a Sunday, call my MD. She's out of town and suggests urgent care. Urgent care says my co-pay is $35. Fine, here's my visa... last week I receive a refund check from the urgent care for $35 since now they say there is no co-pay. How much did running my card and then cutting refund check cost these bozos?

 

On that visit to urgent care there was a drug addict screaming at the fresh-out-of-the-200th-ranked medical school Burmese doctor that "all I need is a prescription for painkillers!!!!!" and on and on about how he doesn't need to answer questions about his medical history. As I was checking out some lady who burnt too many brain cells huffing starter fluid was insisting that this location does testing for her food handler permit (they don't and never have says the desk lady). This crazy lady then proceeds to scream expletives and throws the container of pens on the floor. Good times!

 

Yup, it is the Wild West.  On one hand we have a system where too many people stick their fat fingers into the pie.  On the other hand, we have cockroaches that should just be euthanized and not allowed to clog up the system for others who need medical care.

 

It is funny how Urgent Card in Vegas hires some of the weirdest doctors.  The one I had that time was fresh off the boat it seems.  He couldn't communicate in English, but when I spoke to him in Mandarin he understood and responded fluently.  It was his assistant that really provided the care and kept me informed.  

 

If I had it to do over again, I'd go to the same Urgent Care again.  The doc understood the difference between a bruise and a fracture.  No waiting times.  Good x-ray tech.  Didn't prescribe narcotics.  Only $150.  If I had gone to an ER, I'd have waited six hours, seen four different doctors, six different interns, shot up with morphine and billed $1,650.  Probably would have tried to amputate my foot too.     

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medical insurance in this country is a farce. Do they still issue those crap policies that might pay for some standard medical visits and nothing else? I think some fastfood restaurants offered them so they can claim that they offer "insurance."

 

I had a recent experience where the doctor ordered an MRI. I went to the MRI place and they said my co-pay is $140, that I paid. Later on I'm sent my BlueCross/BlueShield statement. They paid them about $800 on about a $4,000 bill they sent. Since they weren't a participating provider, the statement said I owe the MRI place about $3,000. I called the MRI place and they say they're not a participating provider with anybody, because that works better with them. They just adjusted my bill to what Bluecross/Blueshield said was what they pay, like they were a participating provider. I owed them nothing more.

 

Edited by Burgerwars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Burgerwars said:

Medical insurance in this country is a farce. Do they still issue those crap policies that might pay for some standard medical visits and nothing else? I think some fastfood restaurants offered them so they can claim that they offer "insurance."

 

I had a recent experience where the doctor ordered an MRI. I went to the MRI place and they said my co-pay is $140, that I paid. Later on I'm sent my BlueCross/BlueShield statement. They paid them about $800 on about a $4,000 bill they sent. Since they weren't a participating provider, the statement said I owe the MRI place about $3,000. I called the MRI place and they say they're not a participating provider with anybody, because that works better with them. They just adjusted my bill to what Bluecross/Blueshield said was what they pay, like they were a participating provider. I owed them nothing more.

 


They got paid $800, of which $700 was pure profit.  Insurance is another scam.  Almost everything in the medical industry is a scam.  
 

The doctor I went to see was a former Navy doctor stationed in San Diego about the same time I was there.  He was telling me he bills an easy $1,000,000 a year, but he only sees about 30% of that.  Insurance companies get at least 1/3.  The test goes to staff and expenses.  He said he could everybody $75 per visit and still make great money if it weren't for insurance companies inflating the prices.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PotO said:

When they say, "this is covered by insurance"

38 minutes ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

And that is where it all goes wrong.


FTFY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, hegemony said:

what about those scam religious fake insurance schemes advertised all over AM radio? those people need to be shot.

Never heard those.  What are they like?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Kat58 said:

 


One part of me says that if Rambo endorses it, it must be a crock of ship.

 

But what is it like technically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, PotO said:


One part of me says that if Rambo endorses it, it must be a crock of ship.

 

But what is it like technically?

Idk.

 

(I stopped watching at 3:08... "No smoking and drinking" :P)

 

Edited by Kat58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its basically a multi-person HSA fund, which is sort of how insurance works - policy holders pay premiums into the insurance company who maintains a fund and the insurance company pays when a policy holder has a claim. I think they are using a loophole in the ACA intended for churches to provide health care services to their clergy - for example Mother Superior goes to St. Catholic hospital for treatment, and the Church takes care of the bill.

 

These came about as religious groups objected to procedures and items the ACA required insurance companies to pay claims on. I won't get into details here but anyone can look them up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

Its basically a multi-person HSA fund, which is sort of how insurance works - policy holders pay premiums into the insurance company who maintains a fund and the insurance company pays when a policy holder has a claim. I think they are using a loophole in the ACA intended for churches to provide health care services to their clergy - for example Mother Superior goes to St. Catholic hospital for treatment, and the Church takes care of the bill.

 

These came about as religious groups objected to procedures and items the ACA required insurance companies to pay claims on. I won't get into details here but anyone can look them up.


Very interesting ... on so many different levels.  Very interesting topic, indeed.  
 

I wonder ... if all medical insurance were completely eliminated, what effects would that have on the health care industry?  Would it make health care more efficient?  Cheaper?  No ideology here, just simple yes or no answers, please.

 

And speaking of ideology, couldn't CB have a special locked, hidden forum where people could discuss political issues intelligently?  Well, ... maybe better if there weren't.  It would spill over into the other CB forums for sure.  What a pity. 
 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, PotO said:

Very interesting ... on so many different levels.  Very interesting topic, indeed.  
 

I wonder ... if all medical insurance were completely eliminated, what effects would that have on the health care industry?  Would it make health care more efficient?  Cheaper?  No ideology here, just simple yes or no answers, please.

 

And speaking of ideology, couldn't CB have a special locked, hidden forum where people could discuss political issues intelligently?  Well, ... maybe better if there weren't.  It would spill over into the other CB forums for sure.  What a pity.

Your first question is a little ambiguous - are you presuming Government would assume all aspects of health care in a purely socialized model or would this be a scenario where all health care becomes a cash business like it was prior to the mid-20th Century?

 

CB did at one time have a forum for that purpose called Politics First. As I recall it devolved into constant name calling and other sub-juvenile behaviors which spilled over into here. There are other credit forums where politics is part of the usual discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

Your first question is a little ambiguous - are you presuming Government would assume all aspects of health care in a purely socialized model or would this be a scenario where all health care becomes a cash business like it was prior to the mid-20th Century?

 

CB did at one time have a forum for that purpose called Politics First. As I recall it devolved into constant name calling and other sub-juvenile behaviors which spilled over into here. There are other credit forums where politics is part of the usual discussion.

 

Inverse order here ...

 

I can certainly see where it would spill over.  So, unfortunately, I do think the CB policy of no politics anywhere is the right call.  But it is still sad.

 

No, I'm not implying the government take care of health care.  I simply wonder what it would be like if the entire health industry was cash 'n carry. Pure mathematics tell us that an insurance company spends less on health care than what they collect in premiums.  Doctors have to inflate costs in order to earn in the end what they need to survive.

 

The doctor I spoke with says he needs to charge $150 for a 10-minute office visit because he knows in the end the insurance company will only pay him $80.  And to get that $80 he needs to spend $15 to collect it and even then wait two months for his money.  And there's no 100% guarantee that he will even get it.  

 

Then there is pharma.  My buddy takes Lipitor.  The normal price at CVS is about $200 or more for a 1-month supply.  His copay is $30.  Generic is $150 at CVS or at Costco $17.  Fortunately for him, my sister-in-law is a very senior executive at the company that makes Lipitor.  She gets it for him for free.  The cost to produce Lipitor -- including all costs, including R&D costs -- is about $3.00 for a month's supply.  The cost for the generic is half.  Even a simple run-of-the-mill associate director at her company earns more money than God.  They get a free Mercedes S-Class every three years and a dedicated driver.  Something is totally FUBAR with that picture.  

Edited by PotO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NO

Politicsfirst was created to keep the political commentary off of CB. WE CHOSE TO LEAVE THAT BOARD UNMODERATED. YOU COULD CUSS, you could say whatever you wanted and we literally did not care. Guess what;. Members quit commenting. It wasn't fun anymore when you could do as you pleased without reprisal. It is now defunct.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2019 at 11:44 AM, IndyPoolPlayer said:

1. The hospital isn't the one writing the check paying for the patient's services, the insurance company does that. The hospital is in the business of making money. PERIOD.

That may be true for some hospitals, but not all. In fact, some of the best hospitals are not-for-profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PotO said:

 

I wonder ... if all medical insurance were completely eliminated, what effects would that have on the health care industry?  Would it make health care more efficient?  Cheaper?  No ideology here, just simple yes or no answers, please.

 

Unfortunately it isn’t a simple yes or no at this point. And that’s completely ignoring the political aspect. For many, even most, the answer is yes. It would be less expensive and more efficient. For people that are chronically sick, have terminal diseases, get injured in a car accident, etc. it would be far more expensive. 
Obviously it’s quite a bit more nuanced (and unfortunately legal/political) than that and there are more aspects of the system that would need to be addressed. But insurance companies and their employees make a lot of money. That is factored into the cost of medical care. So eliminating that would therefore bring down costs, assuming that providers then reduced their fees accordingly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  




  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today.
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      178,222
    • Most Online
      2,046

    Newest Member
    Missbling
    Joined

About Us

Since 2003, creditboards.com has helped thousands of people repair their credit, force abusive collection agents to follow the law, ensure proper reporting by credit reporting agencies, and provided financial education to help avoid the pitfalls that can lead to negative tradelines.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Guidelines