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Bank accounts and Credit Card Debt

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4 hours ago, tmcgill said:

I just love it on CB when smart A's break it down and make things simple for everyone. Yeah, we did study finance in that class.  Lol


You and Bankrate must have been in that same third grade class ...
 

"There also are some rigid restrictions covering the right to offset. The Federal Reserve Board’s Regulation Z, Section 226.12(d), bars financial institutions from applying the right to offset to credit card debts."  Ret ... -- Oops, can't use that word here -- Bankrate article. 
 

 ... because you've both come to the same dumb A conclusions that The Fed has debunked.  
 

It's a dirty job, but someone has to be the smart A so that dumb As don't start trying to convince people that the world is flat.  Imagine all the money they'd waste building handrails to prevent falling off.  

 

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Been on CB a long, long time, and although some love a good argument or debate, I'm not one of them. I just research, share info, and my experiences and try to help others. We can agree to disagree. Moving on and best regards.

 

 

Edited by tmcgill

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6 hours ago, tmcgill said:

Been on CB a long, long time, and although some love a good argument or debate, I'm not one of them. I just research, share info, and my experiences and try to help others. We can agree to disagree. Moving on and best regards.

 

 


When you finish third grade, please let me know.  I'll send you a graduation gift.  
 

Meanwhile, to recap ... offset is not prohibited.  Regulation Z allows offset, but only after several onerous conditions have been met that the vast majority of banks will not bother meeting.  Then there are some banks, primarily state chartered banks, that are not subject to Regulation Z and can do whatever their particular state law allows.  Many states do allow offset. 
 

And finally we have credit unions.  They do, basically, WTF they want to do.  

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TraderDog:

 

I like this definition from licensed attorneys.  Legal statutes often need clarification, and legal authorities are often a credible source.

 

When I was struggling with unpaid debt, I kept my money separate from the banks I owed. In addition to Right Of Offset issues, if they are planning garnishing your bank accounts, and don't have your exact info, they will send a canvass letter to banks and credit unions in proximity to your home or employer.

 

http://www.sbbolaw.com/limitations-to-the-banks-right-to-set-off-account-balances-against-obligations/

Edited by tmcgill

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48 minutes ago, tmcgill said:

TraderDog:

 

I like this definition from licensed attorneys.  Legal statutes often need clarification, and legal authorities are often a credible source.

 

When I was struggling with unpaid debt, I kept my money separate from the banks I owed. In addition to Right Of Offset issues, if they are planning garnishing your bank accounts, and don't have your exact info, they will send a canvass letter to banks and credit unions in proximity to your home or employer.

 

http://www.sbbolaw.com/limitations-to-the-banks-right-to-set-off-account-balances-against-obligations/

In other words, "Federal law does not bar offset for credit card debt.  The law in place only applies to banks that are not state chartered and even then offset for credit card debt isallowed, provided that the bank actually provides you a copy of their T&Cs which in one single paragraph specifically state they will exercise offset for credit card debt AND you specifically and conspicuously apply your signature to that paragraph."

 

A smart judgment creditor doesn't have to waste money on postage.  All they do is pull EWS and they know where you bank.  

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EWS doesn't always have where you currently bank. If they run Chex, EWS, Telecheck - or one of the aggregators with no hits, they'll canvass banks or credit unions near your home or employer. The letter includes the judgment (court order) your SSN and related identifying info. 

 

They'll go snail mail after a paralegal has identified possible funds or banking assets they can grab. The debtor may have recently moved funds to another bank or credit union, or is an authorized user on another account, etc. 

 

I got this from another credible source, my son, who is a collection manager for a large firm with the initials AD.  😊👍

Edited by tmcgill

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A simple letter, even if it includes a copy of the judgment, will never work in many states.  No bank will give up any data without being legally served an appropriate court order.  

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The levy notification is sent with the debtor's name and SSN.  A copy of the court order is included.  This is sent once the court has given the authority to seize the funds. 

 

In a collection attempt if the current bank is unknown, the levy notice is often sent to banks and credit unions in proximity to the individual's residence or employer, hoping to get a hit. Many also check new account inquiries in Telecheck and Chexsystems. I also found out Teletrack (CoreLogic) is sometimes queried to see if there are payday loans.They can get banking info there as well.

 

I recently helped someone who ignored a creditor's lawsuit. Actually, she had several unpaid bank loans and accounts. She kept asking how a creditor knew where she banked, after moving checking and savings to a small bank a few blocks from her job.

 

Of course, the goal is to come up with a plan for dealing with debt before it gets to this far. 

 

 

Edited by tmcgill

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10 hours ago, tmcgill said:

The levy notification is sent with the debtor's name and SSN.  A copy of the court order is included.  This is sent once the court has given the authority to seize the funds. 

 

In a collection attempt if the current bank is unknown, the levy notice is often sent to banks and credit unions in proximity to the individual's residence or employer, hoping to get a hit. Many also check new account inquiries in Telecheck and Chexsystems. I also found out Teletrack (CoreLogic) is sometimes queried to see if there are payday loans.They can get banking info there as well.

 

I recently helped someone who ignored a creditor's lawsuit. Actually, she had several unpaid bank loans and accounts. She kept asking how a creditor knew where she banked, after moving checking and savings to a small bank a few blocks from her job.

 

Of course, the goal is to come up with a plan for dealing with debt before it gets to this far. 

 

 


You are either making up stories again or live in an oddball state that allows postal service for bank account execution.  
 

In California, it's impossible to levy on a common judgment without a sheriff or legitimate process server delivering the papers.  Most states are the same.  
 

Serving all the banks near someone's residence or place of work can prove expensive.  That's why they use Chex / TeleCheck / EWS to locate banks.  

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2 hours ago, PotO said:

You are either making up stories again or live in an oddball state that allows postal service for bank account execution.

Actually I'm sure in most states, the bank just needs to be sent a copy of the court order - which can be done by mail or courier service. I know that's the case here, and also in Illinois. California is in reality an unusual bit where they (along with New York) tend to do things differently than the other 48 states. Since California is heavily debtor/consumer friendly, I would expect regs such as what you describe in order to purposely slow down the process.

 

It'll take some googling but there's a case out there where a famous JDB attorney out of Georgia (I believe - first name Fred but the last name escapes me at the moment) blanketed banks with court orders for debtors that was obtained in what amounted to a kangaroo court. He cleaned out a lot of bank accounts that way.

Edited by IndyPoolPlayer

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40 minutes ago, IndyPoolPlayer said:

Actually I'm sure in most states, the bank just needs to be sent a copy of the court order - which can be done by mail or courier service. I know that's the case here, and also in Illinois. California is in reality an unusual bit where they (along with New York) tend to do things differently than the other 48 states. Since California is heavily debtor/consumer friendly, I would expect regs such as what you describe in order to purposely slow down the process.

 

It'll take some googling but there's a case out there where a famous JDB attorney out of Georgia (I believe - first name Fred but the last name escapes me at the moment) blanketed banks with court orders for debtors that was obtained in what amounted to a kangaroo court. He cleaned out a lot of bank accounts that way.

 

Also not Texas, Oregon, Florida, Virginia ...  

 

 

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The canvass form letter is a collection tool to locate debtor accounts. Collection agencies often use attorneys for the actual levy process. Lawyers send correspondence using snail mail, as proof of delivery is often required. If the account is located, the actual process to obtain the funds is contingent on state law. Here in Texas, for example, once a creditor gets a judgment, they then file a writ of garnishment. Once the bank receives it, the located account is frozen until a hearing, to determine if the funds are exempt from levy (such as social security or retirement funds).

 

TraderDog, we veered off-topic somewhat, but I hope we answered your original question.

 

Edited by tmcgill

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1 hour ago, tmcgill said:

The canvass form letter is a collection tool to locate debtor accounts. Collection agencies often use attorneys for the actual levy process. Lawyers send correspondence using snail mail, as proof of delivery is often required. If the account is located, the actual process to obtain the funds is contingent on state law. Here in Texas, for example, once a creditor gets a judgment, they then file a writ of garnishment. Once the bank receives it, the located account is frozen until a hearing, to determine if the funds are exempt from levy (such as social security or retirement funds).

 

TraderDog, we veered off-topic somewhat, but I hope we answered your original question.

 

 

In Texas the writ must be served by the sheriff.  

 

No bank is going to answer a letter verifying an account unless actually served with a writ.

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In Connecticut you have to get the form from the court (costs about $150) and pay a sheriff to take it to the bank. It's only good once. They get tired after a while of spending upwards of $200 to get nothing.

 

How do they find out where you bank?  Debtor's exam, or they steal your garbage. Always shred anything with an account number on it, or burn it.

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PotO, we can agree to disagree.  I've seen how how that collection process works. Here in Dallas before I retired, I worked in IT support for a law firm downtown that handled mortgage and other collections. Plus, my son works in Ohio in the legal section for a large collector.

 

After the judgment when the levy letter is sent, if the debtor does not have accounts with the bank or credit union, the financial institution will send a simple response stating they are unable to handle legal activity for the debtor listed in the judgment (or similar language). No specific account information is exchanged. If the debtor has an account with the bank or credit union, the basic response will often include what is legally required next to levy the account.

 

As I stated, this is done post-judgment.  Each asset recovery situation depends on state law, the amount of the judgment, and the asset profile created for a specific debtor.  In OH, wage garnishment is often used. Here in TX, there is no wage garnishment (except by the IRS or for child support).

 

Edited by tmcgill

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1 hour ago, tmcgill said:

PotO, we can agree to disagree.  I've seen how how that collection process works. Here in Dallas before I retired, I worked in IT support for a law firm downtown that handled mortgage and other collections. Plus, my son works in Ohio in the legal section for a large collector.

 

After the judgment when the levy letter is sent, if the debtor does not have accounts with the bank or credit union, the financial institution will send a simple response stating they are unable to handle legal activity for the debtor listed in the judgment (or similar language). No specific account information is exchanged. If the debtor has an account with the bank or credit union, the basic response will often include what is legally required next to levy the account.

 

As I stated, this is done post-judgment.  Each asset recovery situation depends on state law, the amount of the judgment, and the asset profile created for a specific debtor.  In OH, wage garnishment is often used. Here in TX, there is no wage garnishment (except by the IRS or for child support).

 

 

Let's hope your IT skills aren't as dismal as your legal skills.

 

First of all, in Texas no bank can release data on the existence, much details of, any individual bank accounts unless they have express written permission of the account holder or in receipt of certified legal process hand delivered by an appropriate agent of the court.  The idea that an attorney or CA can just send off a bunch of letters to inquire whether or not you have an account at a particular bank is more than laughable.

 

Per Texas RCP, any writ that involves possession of any person, property or thing can only be served by a sheriff or constable.  I'm going to emphasize "only" because I know you have comprehension issues.  Ask your Literacy Volunteer to read Texas RCP Rule 103 to you.  Even in those situations where service by mail is allowed, not just any schmuck can pop the document in the mailbox.  Certainly nobody at the law firm you state that you worked at can.  There's another pesky Rule that states just who can. ;)

 

You need to come up with better stories.

 

** Thanks to my good friend at SJA and associate at Akin Gump for the guidance, advice and a few cold beers this evening. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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As I stated, you and I can agree to disagree. I hope our responses gave the OP some of the answers he or she was perhaps looking for.

 

Also, you can continue with what you think are insults (I'm certain you will). I notice the acerbic responses seem to fire you up, or maybe give you a digital buzz? Look, after 16 years here on CB, I've had shade from the best.

 

I had my son read this thread, and he just laughed. Collectors send those vague form letters knowing the bank will respond with - 1) No future legal action is necessary or will be honored, or 2) This is what the law requires for us to proceed. It is just one of many tools they use. The collection process is strategic, depending on the debtor. They don't randomly blanket a zip code with letters. They have reason to believe - or suspect the debtor has an account at certain banks or CUs. Their legal counsel knows the civil rules, and will use them once funds are located. 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Edited by tmcgill

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1 hour ago, tmcgill said:

As I stated, you and I can agree to disagree. I hope our responses gave the OP some of the answers he or she was perhaps looking for.

 

Also, you can continue with what you think are insults (I'm certain you will). I notice the acerbic responses seem to fire you up, or maybe give you a digital buzz? Look, after 16 years here on CB, I've had shade from the best.

 

I had my son read this thread, and he just laughed. Collectors send those vague form letters knowing the bank will respond with - 1) No future legal action is necessary or will be honored, or 2) This is what the law requires for us to proceed. It is just one of many tools they use. The collection process is strategic, depending on the debtor. They don't randomly blanket a zip code with letters. They have reason to believe - or suspect the debtor has an account at certain banks or CUs. Their legal counsel knows the civil rules, and will use them once funds are located. 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 Like parent, like son. ;)

 

I'm inclined to actually default so your son's CA can try sending letters to my banks.  I'll be LMFAO when I sue the bejesus out of them.  Alas, that will never happen because Texas law says you are full of sh1t.  

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