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How many Americans with $1 million feel wealthy? Fewer than you may think

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A million will see a "comfortable" retirement, especially once SS  and possible pension benefits are taken into account, and assuming a house is owned "free and clear".

 

But, if you're talking pre-tax savings (401-k, etc), the typical annual withdrawal is about 4% (or $40k).  With suggested ample set asides for possible health care expenses, even with SS, you're not likely to be taking week long island vacations every year

 

 

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9 hours ago, hdporter said:

A million will see a "comfortable" retirement, especially once SS  and possible pension benefits are taken into account, and assuming a house is owned "free and clear".

 

But, if you're talking pre-tax savings (401-k, etc), the typical annual withdrawal is about 4% (or $40k).  With suggested ample set asides for possible health care expenses, even with SS, you're not likely to be taking week long island vacations every year

 

 

the 4% rule is stupid and designed to line to pockets of financial services firms. It also reinforces the idea people need to leave a "legacy" for brats that should learn their own way in the world instead of waiting for mom and dad to die.

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I guess USA Today don't want me reading that article because I use adblock. I only blacklist specific sites with obnoxious ad practices, so they must have done something to annoy me at some point.

 

Perhaps wealthy is a relative term, but you could live for decades on a million dollars and never run out and never want for anything almost anywhere in the world.

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Yes, everything is relative. A homeless person who just found $1 million in a garbage can will feel extremely wealthy. Someone near retirement who has $1 million but no other retirement income or assets, may feel they'll do ok in retirement but not wealthy.

The article talked about people who have between  $1 million and $5 million. There's a big difference between the two. $5 million in the bank is wealthy.

Edited by Burgerwars

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11 hours ago, Shane1 said:

I guess USA Today don't want me reading that article because I use adblock. I only blacklist specific sites with obnoxious ad practices, so they must have done something to annoy me at some point.

 

Perhaps wealthy is a relative term, but you could live for decades on a million dollars and never run out and never want for anything almost anywhere in the world.

 

You must have a lower standard of living than a lot of people.

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3 hours ago, PotO said:

 

You must have a lower standard of living than a lot of people.

I'd say its the opposite a good majority of Americans make less than 50k/year and 1 million gives off 50k/year at 5%. Worldwide the average salary is 18k/year. So plenty of people in this world would do just fine with a million in the bank.

 

Some people are just never happy. I know someone who has over a million, is soc security age and has a pension after retiring from the military in their 40s then going on to 6 figure jobs. They've scrimped and saved for it but refuse to retire, according to their partner they are obsessed with their retirement account and watching it grow, with no plans to use it.

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23 hours ago, hegemony said:

the 4% rule is stupid and designed to line to pockets of financial services firms. It also reinforces the idea people need to leave a "legacy" for brats that should learn their own way in the world instead of waiting for mom and dad to die.

 

No, the 4% is a conservative rule -- and not a bad one in my book when it may be a crap shoot as to whether you're looking at 10-30 years of retirement, uncertain healthcare expenses, and no idea how your investments may actually fare ... even if invested "safely".  There's ample opportunity to adjust the percentage at benchmark ages of 75+, if prudent.

 

I'm clueless, in any case, how excess balances "line pockets" (beyond what should be reasonable and nominal investment fees).  And if you don't want to leave a "brat legacy", don't.  Plenty of extraordinary charitable agencies offer a solution to that.

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27 minutes ago, hdporter said:

 

No, the 4% is a conservative rule -- and not a bad one in my book when it may be a crap shoot as to whether you're looking at 10-30 years of retirement, uncertain healthcare expenses, and no idea how your investments may actually fare ... even if invested "safely".  There's ample opportunity to adjust the percentage at benchmark ages of 75+, if prudent.

 

I'm clueless, in any case, how excess balances "line pockets" (beyond what should be reasonable and nominal investment fees).  And if you don't want to leave a "brat legacy", don't.  Plenty of extraordinary charitable agencies offer a solution to that.

 

the pockets are lined by the fees you pay to own mutual funds (12-b, etc) as well as people who waste money on management fees, many of which are over 2% of balances per year regardless of performance.

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1 hour ago, oldblue said:

I'd say its the opposite a good majority of Americans make less than 50k/year and 1 million gives off 50k/year at 5%. Worldwide the average salary is 18k/year. So plenty of people in this world would do just fine with a million in the bank.

 

Some people are just never happy. I know someone who has over a million, is soc security age and has a pension after retiring from the military in their 40s then going on to 6 figure jobs. They've scrimped and saved for it but refuse to retire, according to their partner they are obsessed with their retirement account and watching it grow, with no plans to use it.

 

Then a good majority of Americas live a shitty life.  They struggle to make ends meet.  Have to sell blood to get enough money to see them through even a minor emergency.  In credit card debt up to their eyeballs, and then there are student loans.  Real emergencies drive them to bankruptcy.  Older and have the inevitable medical issues?  Rots a ruck.

 

$50k might be good if you live in some overseas areas, but certainly not China or any decent part of Europe.  I hear $50k makes you a trillionaire in Venezuela.  In the US, $50k might be good in some Louisiana swamp.  But if you live to the average life expectancy of 84, better develop a taste for dog food.  Is Purina a good brand?  

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7 hours ago, PotO said:

 

You must have a lower standard of living than a lot of people.

 

A lot of people meaning many Americans? Even in one of the most expensive states in the country, I could do fine on $40k a year without a mortgage and with a large reduction in income taxes. Even with such costs, I could probably squeak by. Not that I'd try it. I would at least move south. In central Europe, the GDP per capita is more like $10-20k. Those numbers still put them in the top 25th percentile of countries worldwide.

 

The logic now is that you need $1.2 million to retire in your 60s. Where the heck are these people planning to retire and what are their expenses going to be that they need that much money? Granted, I am a cheapskate and don't really like to waste money just because I have it, but I don't get it. This is the trap most Americans fall into. They spend every dime they get. If they get more dimes, they get a bigger house, bigger car that guzzles more gas, more vacations, more gadgets, longer commute. Then they complain that world is not fair and they don't have $400 saved up for an emergency.

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4 hours ago, oldblue said:

I'd say its the opposite a good majority of Americans make less than 50k/year and 1 million gives off 50k/year at 5%. Worldwide the average salary is 18k/year. So plenty of people in this world would do just fine with a million in the bank.

 

Some people are just never happy. I know someone who has over a million, is soc security age and has a pension after retiring from the military in their 40s then going on to 6 figure jobs. They've scrimped and saved for it but refuse to retire, according to their partner they are obsessed with their retirement account and watching it grow, with no plans to use it.

I read an article that good savers usually make poor spenders.  Once retired, they're scared to spend money being afraid they'll run out.  If you have some sort of pension and social security, along with a 401k, don't just let the 401k sit there once retired and live the life of a hermit.  Take regular payments out of it.  Being the richest person in the cemetery won't help you.

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3 hours ago, PotO said:

 

Then a good majority of Americas live a shitty life.  They struggle to make ends meet.  Have to sell blood to get enough money to see them through even a minor emergency.  In credit card debt up to their eyeballs, and then there are student loans.  Real emergencies drive them to bankruptcy.  Older and have the inevitable medical issues?  Rots a ruck.

 

$50k might be good if you live in some overseas areas, but certainly not China or any decent part of Europe.  I hear $50k makes you a trillionaire in Venezuela.  In the US, $50k might be good in some Louisiana swamp.  But if you live to the average life expectancy of 84, better develop a taste for dog food.  Is Purina a good brand?  

Interesting I make 50k save half my salary and live just fine in a large metropolitan area in the midwest.

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38 minutes ago, oldblue said:

Interesting I make 50k save half my salary and live just fine in a large metropolitan area in the midwest.

Property tax and a vehicle payment are the biggest outlay for me...without the vehicle payment (gone in about a year), I could still have a decent existence in Houston and Austin for less than $3K per month if I really had to cut corners.  It can easily be done.  Not everyone has mortgage/lease expenses, especially as they grow towards retirement age.  And a choice to have a vehicle payment is a personal decision...I didn't NEED this vehicle (anything over two is overkill but still fun), but I DID want it (and could easily afford it).

 

Now, do I want to have to try and live in LA or NY or Boston on less than six figures...hell to the no! 

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50 minutes ago, Burgerwars said:

I read an article that good savers usually make poor spenders.  Once retired, they're scared to spend money being afraid they'll run out.  If you have some sort of pension and social security, along with a 401k, don't just let the 401k sit there once retired and live the life of a hermit.  Take regular payments out of it.  Being the richest person in the cemetery won't help you.

Thats pretty much me if I decided to spend my money I wouldn't know what to spend it on. I don't need the fancy clothes, house, cars, jewelry or whatever else it is that people spend money on. I got a modest house thats practically paid for, a car that is, a big screen tv, a nice computer, more than enough guns and a lot of tools. I eat good which is the one thing I splurge on eating out generally once a day and have health insurance. I couldn't tell you what else I need. I'll probably buy a quad and some exercise equipment at some point. 

 

I can't really blame the guy I know I don't think I'll ever fully retire, I'd get bored. When I hit his level though I at least hope to do some traveling, doesn't have to be extravagant though.

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27 minutes ago, centex said:

Property tax and a vehicle payment are the biggest outlay for me...without the vehicle payment (gone in about a year), I could still have a decent existence in Houston and Austin for less than $3K per month if I really had to cut corners.  It can easily be done.  Not everyone has mortgage/lease expenses, especially as they grow towards retirement age.  And a choice to have a vehicle payment is a personal decision...I didn't NEED this vehicle (anything over two is overkill but still fun), but I DID want it (and could easily afford it).

 

Now, do I want to have to try and live in LA or NY or Boston on less than six figures...hell to the no! 

 

Yeah property tax sucks its as much as the principal and interest portion of my mortgage. Kind of what keeps me from paying my house off since it won't make much of a difference with still having to pay HO insurance too. Health insurance is what I hate paying the most at over $300/month. Especially since I'm healthy and young I never use it. If I drop it though I'd probably break my leg the next day and have to have surgery on it or something and be out 50k.

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8 hours ago, Shane1 said:

 

A lot of people meaning many Americans? Even in one of the most expensive states in the country, I could do fine on $40k a year without a mortgage and with a large reduction in income taxes. Even with such costs, I could probably squeak by. Not that I'd try it. I would at least move south. In central Europe, the GDP per capita is more like $10-20k. Those numbers still put them in the top 25th percentile of countries worldwide.

 

The logic now is that you need $1.2 million to retire in your 60s. Where the heck are these people planning to retire and what are their expenses going to be that they need that much money? Granted, I am a cheapskate and don't really like to waste money just because I have it, but I don't get it. This is the trap most Americans fall into. They spend every dime they get. If they get more dimes, they get a bigger house, bigger car that guzzles more gas, more vacations, more gadgets, longer commute. Then they complain that world is not fair and they don't have $400 saved up for an emergency.

 

Ok, cheap and confused about geography.  Central Europe includes France and Germany.  The GDP in France is around $39k and Germany $45k.  Now, maybe you mean places like Poland where it's $16k.  WTF would I move to Poland?   If I wanted to freeze my balls off in winter and live with people with bizarre accents, I'd move to NYC or Jersey.  

 

You can forget about income tax reduction.  In any event, the $50k from savings of $1m are pretty much tax free (except for any interest).  The $40k you mention is a joke.  Where does $3,300 a month take you with two people:

 

1.  Car payment for those who won't drive your 2004 Ford Pinto: $400

2.  Property taxes (not counting HOA fees): $400

3.  Property, car and medical insurance:  $800

4.  Food and incidentals: $600

5.  Utilities:  $350

6.  Gas: $100

7.  Entertainment / Dining out: $400

8.  Clothing: $100

 

Wow, a whopping $150 left over!!!  We're fooking rich!!!!  If we save that money for 3 or 4 years we might be able to afford a vacation to Disney in Florida.  

 

Oh, sh!t ... we're forgetting that stupid fooking myth that Medicare is completely free and also covers 100% of your medical costs. 

 

Well, there's always food stamps.  Sh!t, we're already living a life of luxury.  No food stamps for us.  

 

Did you say Purina was tasty?

 

Actually, though, I don't GAFF.  As long as folks like CV only stick to stealing neighbors' electro-domestic and assorted mail order goods and not actual tax money, my retirement is golden. My wife's is even better.  We have backup savings and investments.  It's the other people that we worry about.  

 

Unless, of course, they all follow you to Poland.  I hear they have real great immigration policies there.  😂

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9 hours ago, oldblue said:

Interesting I make 50k save half my salary and live just fine in a large metropolitan area in the midwest.

Purina is cheap.  So are double-wides these days.  

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56 minutes ago, PotO said:

Purina is cheap.  So are double-wides these days.  

I prefer making myself a couple Gaines Burgers sandwiches for work. The only side effect is I've developed a habit of burying pens and pencils, which sometimes irritates my co-workers.

Dog food isn't bad. I prefer it to the daily specials served in the cafeteria. Cat food is another story. Aside from snacking on a box of Little Friskies while going to a movie, I now try to avoid it. After dining on five cans of Nine Lives, I ran up a tree and couldn't come down. The fire department won't come back again to rescue me, so that's why I switched to dog food.

 

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1 hour ago, Burgerwars said:

I prefer making myself a couple Gaines Burgers sandwiches for work. The only side effect is I've developed a habit of burying pens and pencils, which sometimes irritates my co-workers.

Dog food isn't bad. I prefer it to the daily specials served in the cafeteria. Cat food is another story. Aside from snacking on a box of Little Friskies while going to a movie, I now try to avoid it. After dining on five cans of Nine Lives, I ran up a tree and couldn't come down. The fire department won't come back again to rescue me, so that's why I switched to dog food.

 

 

Good thing you don't have a swimming pool like Contex.  

 

Try Little Whiskers.  Can also save money when you have to shave less.  

Edited by PotO

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9 hours ago, PotO said:

 

Ok, cheap and confused about geography.  Central Europe includes France and Germany.  The GDP in France is around $39k and Germany $45k.  Now, maybe you mean places like Poland where it's $16k.  WTF would I move to Poland?   If I wanted to freeze my balls off in winter and live with people with bizarre accents, I'd move to NYC or Jersey.  

 

You can forget about income tax reduction.  In any event, the $50k from savings of $1m are pretty much tax free (except for any interest).  The $40k you mention is a joke.  Where does $3,300 a month take you with two people:

 

1.  Car payment for those who won't drive your 2004 Ford Pinto: $400

2.  Property taxes (not counting HOA fees): $400

3.  Property, car and medical insurance:  $800

4.  Food and incidentals: $600

5.  Utilities:  $350

6.  Gas: $100

7.  Entertainment / Dining out: $400

8.  Clothing: $100

 

Wow, a whopping $150 left over!!!  We're fooking rich!!!!  If we save that money for 3 or 4 years we might be able to afford a vacation to Disney in Florida.  

 

Oh, sh!t ... we're forgetting that stupid fooking myth that Medicare is completely free and also covers 100% of your medical costs. 

 

Well, there's always food stamps.  Sh!t, we're already living a life of luxury.  No food stamps for us.  

 

Did you say Purina was tasty?

 

Actually, though, I don't GAFF.  As long as folks like CV only stick to stealing neighbors' electro-domestic and assorted mail order goods and not actual tax money, my retirement is golden. My wife's is even better.  We have backup savings and investments.  It's the other people that we worry about.  

 

Unless, of course, they all follow you to Poland.  I hear they have real great immigration policies there.  😂

 

1 The $1800 08 honda accord I got at auction is just fine.

2 $150 taxes

3 $500 insurance

4 $250 food

5 $250 utilities

6 $50 gas, company truck takes me to and from jobs.

7 $200 entertainment/eating out

8 $200 Misc. don't need  $100 in clothes a month but there is other random stuff I buy/have to pay for.

9 $150 You left out the principal/interest part of the mortgage

 

$1750/month No purina or double wide in there but nothing wrong with a double wide any way and purina would never be necessary when milk, eggs, beans, rice, pasta and potatoes are all cheap and provide plenty of nutrition. Plenty of money left over for emergencies and getting another car later. If I didn't have the skills to fix up a cheap house I could rent an apartment for my PITI.

 

Your just a spoiled little baby that likes to exaggerate. Plenty of people in this world have it a whole lot worse than joe blow driving a 20 year old car living in a trailer.  Just 150 years ago everyone had it a whole lot worse. Your ancestors would call you a bitch too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, oldblue said:

 

1 The $1800 08 honda accord I got at auction is just fine.

2 $150 taxes

3 $500 insurance

4 $250 food

5 $250 utilities

6 $50 gas, company truck takes me to and from jobs.

7 $200 entertainment/eating out

8 $200 Misc. don't need  $100 in clothes a month but there is other random stuff I buy/have to pay for.

9 $150 You left out the principal/interest part of the mortgage

 

$1750/month No purina or double wide in there but nothing wrong with a double wide any way and purina would never be necessary when milk, eggs, beans, rice, pasta and potatoes are all cheap and provide plenty of nutrition. Plenty of money left over for emergencies and getting another car later. If I didn't have the skills to fix up a cheap house I could rent an apartment for my PITI.

 

Your just a spoiled little baby that likes to exaggerate. Plenty of people in this world have it a whole lot worse than joe blow driving a 20 year old car living in a trailer.  Just 150 years ago everyone had it a whole lot worse. Your ancestors would call you a bitch too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, Jethro, honesty is also not your forte it seems.

 

Nice to know your employer will provide gas when you retire.  From food expenses and insurance, you live alone with no kids.  Easy to see why.  $150 per month in property taxes, you must have a double-wide that floats in that Lousianna swampland.  $200 for entertainment and eating out shows your only socializing / entertainment is PPVP.  Driving an old clunker sure is classy.  Goes with the inability to marry, I guess, and not having kids.  

 

With the food you live on, you won't need $1m at all.  Like your fellow Neanderthals, you'll be dead of high cholesterol and diabetes by the time you are 60.  Not that that's entirely bad, though ... it just lets the Social Security fund last a bit longer for the others.  

 

One thing you did get right is "cheap".  Pin that badge to your chest.

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12 hours ago, PotO said:

 

Ok, cheap and confused about geography.  Central Europe includes France and Germany.  The GDP in France is around $39k and Germany $45k.  Now, maybe you mean places like Poland where it's $16k.  WTF would I move to Poland?   If I wanted to freeze my balls off in winter and live with people with bizarre accents, I'd move to NYC or Jersey.  

 

You can forget about income tax reduction.  In any event, the $50k from savings of $1m are pretty much tax free (except for any interest).  The $40k you mention is a joke.  Where does $3,300 a month take you with two people:

 

1.  Car payment for those who won't drive your 2004 Ford Pinto: $400

2.  Property taxes (not counting HOA fees): $400

3.  Property, car and medical insurance:  $800

4.  Food and incidentals: $600

5.  Utilities:  $350

6.  Gas: $100

7.  Entertainment / Dining out: $400

8.  Clothing: $100 

 

Wow, a whopping $150 left over!!!  We're fooking rich!!!!  If we save that money for 3 or 4 years we might be able to afford a vacation to Disney in Florida.  

 

Oh, sh!t ... we're forgetting that stupid fooking myth that Medicare is completely free and also covers 100% of your medical costs. 

 

Well, there's always food stamps.  Sh!t, we're already living a life of luxury.  No food stamps for us.  

 

Did you say Purina was tasty?

 

Actually, though, I don't GAFF.  As long as folks like CV only stick to stealing neighbors' electro-domestic and assorted mail order goods and not actual tax money, my retirement is golden. My wife's is even better.  We have backup savings and investments.  It's the other people that we worry about.  

 

Unless, of course, they all follow you to Poland.  I hear they have real great immigration policies there.  😂

 

Why would I want to move to France, which is not central Europe, although it's still cheaper than the US? Places like Poland and Czech Republic are maybe a bit behind the US in some respects (most countries are), but they are advanced western nations, far ahead of most of the rest of the world.

 

If you are accounting for two people, shouldn't both people have their own retirement savings? And shouldn't they be paying for shared expenses, such as utilities and property taxes?

 

1.  Car payment for those who won't drive your 2004 Ford Pinto: $0. For a Lexus, which is something I did splurge on. It has lasted for years already. I have no need to replace it any time soon.

2.  Property taxes (not counting HOA fees): $50-100 in a southern state or many other locations. I pay about $400 now. Why would I keep doing that? This is not smart financial management.

3.  Property, car and medical insurance: $100-200 in most other countries. But yeah anywhere in the US, double or triple.

4.  Food and incidentals: $250

5.  Utilities: $200

6.  Gas: $100

7.  Entertainment / Dining out: $200

8.  Clothing: This needs to be its own category?

 

I'm barely at $1k, and I'm not exactly sacrificing. I mean, I guess I could spend $100 per month on clothes, but I don't see what that gets me. This doesn't have to be a cap necessarily. I could take that annual island vacation with whatever's left over, and still have plenty left. If I wanted to spend thousands of dollars every month, that would actually be the thing that would take effort. I know what it's like to not live within my means. That's how I found CB in the first place.

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3 hours ago, PotO said:

 

Ok, Jethro, honesty is also not your forte it seems.

 

Nice to know your employer will provide gas when you retire.  From food expenses and insurance, you live alone with no kids.  Easy to see why.  $150 per month in property taxes, you must have a double-wide that floats in that Lousianna swampland.  $200 for entertainment and eating out shows your only socializing / entertainment is PPVP.  Driving an old clunker sure is classy.  Goes with the inability to marry, I guess, and not having kids.  

 

With the food you live on, you won't need $1m at all.  Like your fellow Neanderthals, you'll be dead of high cholesterol and diabetes by the time you are 60.  Not that that's entirely bad, though ... it just lets the Social Security fund last a bit longer for the others.  

 

One thing you did get right is "cheap".  Pin that badge to your chest.

Why would I need 8 tanks of gas a month if I don't have to drive to work? Considering my employer(me) only pays for gas when I'm on the job.

 

I have a 2 bed house in a decent(people like you would call it a bad neighborhood but I've lived here 6 years and its just fine) neighborhood, I don't need money to entertain myself. An 08 isn't a clunker, it is funny your wife married you for your ability to spend, explains why you're miserable, if I married a gold digger I would be too.

 

Interestingly enough when you're not fat like most Americans its not expensive to eat healthy food cheap, since you don't need a lot of it.

 

 

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