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Diane40

A question about reaging …

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Does it make a difference if the account was never brought current with negative showing all the way until the end of December 2013 and then was transferred / sold to another company January 2014?  Status on the negative account states .. Pays as agreed.

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2 hours ago, Diane40 said:

Does it make a difference if the account was never brought current with negative showing all the way until the end of December 2013 and then was transferred / sold to another company January 2014?  Status on the negative account states .. Pays as agreed.

We’re getting into turf here that I’m not prepared to concretely advise on.

 

However, generally speaking, once an account goes without payment for 180 days, the account should be charged off and referred for collection.  The charge off is reported to the CRAs and that action starts the clock ticking on obsolescence (triggers the rule that the trade line is to be deleted 7y 6m from DOFD).

 

Such a tradeline can never be brought “current”.  You’ve detailed an account that started reporting delinquencies and was never brought current, however, you’ve never detailed the actual monthly stream of status entries on the tradeline (30d, 60d, etc).

 

Again, generally speaking, a tradeline that hasn’t been written off, but was instead fully satisfied after a period of delinquency, doesn’t receive the same treatment as a charge off.  Instead, each individual month with adverse reporting ages off after 7 years, until only a final status of “pays as agrees” remains, standing on your report for up to 3 additional years.

 

So, I infer in your case, the creditor never reported a charge off status.  Further, it sounds like they sold the debt balance to a debt buyer, and closed out the reporting as “Paid”

 

Failure to write off the account after 6-mo without payments violates accounting guidelines, but I’m not prepared to say that they’ve violated credit reporting guidelines.  (Obviously, if there were interim payments, the situation is changed ... but sufficient info isn’t discussed to say how.)

 

Fwiw, the correct final status on the account likely should be “CO - Transferred” (Charge Off, transferred to another lender).  Again, the CRAs would remove such a tradeline in the timeframe discussed above.

 

All I can suggest is that it may take considerable footwork to secure deletion of the tradeline.  However, it’s certainly worth a quick letter to the creditor requesting removal as it’s been over 7 years since the account entered an adverse status, from which your payments never brought the account current.  I suggest not being too specific in the letter; vague is best for now given the questionable reporting.  See if a simple request to delete might be enough of a nudge to secure what you want.

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Thank you hdporter and hegemony for your reply.  The first delinquency of 30 days late started on April 2012 … see below.  This was a mortgage account that ended up being sold to another company in which i got a 5 year loan modification reducing the interest rate.  It has now ended and going back to the higher interest rate in June.  Cannot get a refi until the negative is gone. That is the only negative on the credit report.  Innovis is the only other credit agency it was listed on and they in 2014 had a date of January 2019 of this account going positive.  Now in April 2019 i get a new report from them and it has been entirely removed.  They have the same date of the first delinquency of 30 days late in april 2012. So i assumed equifax would go positive as well as innovis did. I don’t understand why they would leave it for an additional 180 days.  7 years is enough.


81-Month Payment History


Looked like the below from 2014 to March 2019


Year | Jan | Feb | Mar | Apr | May | Jun | Jul | Aug | Sep | Oct | Nov | Dec


2014 NR  
2013 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180
2012 NR NR NR 30 60 90 120 120 120 120 180 180

 

After March like this ..


2014 NR  
2013 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180
2012 NR NR NR NR NR NR NR 120 120 120 180 180

 

As of May 2019 it looks like the below ..


2014 NR  
2013 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180 180
2012 NR NR NR NR NR NR NR NR NR 120 180 180

 

 

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Thanks for the added detail.  The key aspect here is the account wasn’t closed, but remained open with a delinquent status (with likely additional payment activity).

 

The obsolescence rule that entails deletion of a tradeline 7y 6m after DOFD pretty much pertains to accounts closed with a negative status.  That’s not pertinent here and therefore, as Heg suggests, it’s not an example of reaging.  Adverse content from this account will fall off on a month-by-month basis, as each month ages beyond 7 years since reporting.

 

it would appear that the adverse entries for this account will not age off entirely until Dec 2020.  I can’t say why the account has dropped from Innovis; possibly they apply shorter retention rules, possibly just serrandipity.  (Note:  FCRA stipulates maximum reporting dates; a given CRA can choose to use a shorter period)

 

As far as refinancing, it’s unusual for a prospective lender to stipulate a 100% clean report.  Often, a report that’s clean for 4 years will qualify for a decent rate, though not the best.

 

I can appreciate now why you’re anxious to see this account drop.  While I don’t know who you’re presently dealing with in looking to refi, I can only cite that “it pays to shop around!”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you hdporter for the reply.  I'm disputing it as the date of first delinquency was April 2012 and never brought current .. otherwise why would innovis report 01/2019 as going positive and then removed it.   Actually in March 2019 it wasn't removed on a month to month basis as it jumped from April 2019 to August 2019 and then again in May 2019 from August 2019 to October 2019.  I cannot see how there could be that much of a reporting difference between the two CRA's.  Still going to dispute.  Thank you so much hdporter for your reply.  Appreciate it.  :)

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http://washingtonbankruptcy.com/you-can-add-points-to-your-credit-score-by-beating-the-charge-off-date-scam/

 

A negative account cannot stay on one's credit report any longer than 7.5 years from the date of first delinquency not when they decided to report it or charge it off.  I'm not worried as i have documentation to prove that date if need be.  Thank you again and for your patience with me.  Have a good week ahead.  :)

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2 hours ago, Diane40 said:

http://washingtonbankruptcy.com/you-can-add-points-to-your-credit-score-by-beating-the-charge-off-date-scam/

 

A negative account cannot stay on one's credit report any longer than 7.5 years from the date of first delinquency not when they decided to report it or charge it off.  I'm not worried as i have documentation to prove that date if need be.  Thank you again and for your patience with me.  Have a good week ahead.  :)

 

I don’t want to split hairs here, but note the reference to “charge off” in the link/article.  If your account had been charged off, the info would apply.  Yours wasn’t.  And, while it’s of little consolation, this account, once the negative info ages off, will be retained on your credit report for up to 10 years from payoff/closure as a positive account.

 

Looking at the longer term here, your credit picture is stronger than if this account had been written off and thus eligible for deletion now.  

 

You can seek removal as “obsolete”.  The creditor can choose to grant the request. Just understand that under credit refs, they’re not obligated too.

 

Please bear in mind that this history, as your only negative entry, and having had time elapsed since the account was transferred to another lender, may not be a huge impediment to a refi with the current reporting.    To possibly advise further, it would be useful to know of any current FICO scores you might have access through (such sources as credit card benefits, etc).  As often pointed out, other scores, such as Vantage, CreditKarma, etc. are not particularly helpful for this purpose.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Diane40 said:

why would innovis report 01/2019 as going positive and then removed it. 

Diane40,  I just want to inform you about the Innovis credit report.

This excerpt is in my Innovis credit report (paper report).

“Accounts paid under the agreement may remain in your credit report indefinitely.”

This is an account I have closed and has been closed for more than 18 years.

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6 hours ago, MP80 said:

Diane40,  I just want to inform you about the Innovis credit report.

This excerpt is in my Innovis credit report (paper report).

“Accounts paid under the agreement may remain in your credit report indefinitely.”

This is an account I have closed and has been closed for more than 18 years.

I understand that but they cannot report it as a negative after the 7 / 7.5 years from date of first delinquency.   It would remain as a positive closed account.

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8 hours ago, hdporter said:

 

I don’t want to split hairs here, but note the reference to “charge off” in the link/article.  If your account had been charged off, the info would apply.  Yours wasn’t.  And, while it’s of little consolation, this account, once the negative info ages off, will be retained on your credit report for up to 10 years from payoff/closure as a positive account.

 

Looking at the longer term here, your credit picture is stronger than if this account had been written off and thus eligible for deletion now.  

 

You can seek removal as “obsolete”.  The creditor can choose to grant the request. Just understand that under credit refs, they’re not obligated too.

 

Please bear in mind that this history, as your only negative entry, and having had time elapsed since the account was transferred to another lender, may not be a huge impediment to a refi with the current reporting.    To possibly advise further, it would be useful to know of any current FICO scores you might have access through (such sources as credit card benefits, etc).  As often pointed out, other scores, such as Vantage, CreditKarma, etc. are not particularly helpful for this purpose.

 

 

This account is not on Transunion or Experian and the fico scores for those two CRA's is in the high 700's whereas at the moment Equifax is 724 fico.  I forgot to mention that i did call Equifax and inquire about this account last week and the rep told me it was not showing negative and there was no 81-month payment history available.  I don't think so as i pulled a 3 in one CR from Experian monitoring service and that is where i got the fico score with the negative payment history listed as well so why he told me that is beyond me.  But i have Equifax monitoring Service as well and each time i go into the account and get a new report it is there as well with the 81-month payment history along with it.   Also just checked last night and payment history has now been pushed up to November .. it looks like it is aging off .. will keep you informed as the drama continues to unfold.  ;->

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On 5/21/2019 at 11:02 AM, DigDeep said:

With the previously alluded to proper documentation by Heg, you are on the right track to fix this problem. Look at the "items as of date reported" date. If this last reported date updates to a newer date with the corresponding DOFD changes, the account holder is making changes to the trade line.

 

My recent experiences show EQ auto deleting 4 months prior to 7 years. If the DOFD stops moving, this may resolve itself in a few months. In regards to unintended consequences, I have seen limited data points which may indicate the auto delete gets disrupted when a dispute is recently done prior to the auto delete date. 

How are you getting them to delete 4 months early, I have called them multiple times and have had no luck!

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Update:  Just wanted to report to all interested that the negative account mentioned in this thread is gone .. gone .. gone.  Did a dispute and presented all documentation including the other CRA's reports and the account has been removed from Equifax .. score jumped over 50 points .. fako that is ... not sure about fico.  The moral of this story .. keep a papertrail .. old reports etc for backup .. who does not make mistakes .. be it Creditor or CRA.  Happy .. Happy .. Happy.  ;->  Thank you to all who responded and for the good advice.  Have a good weekend.  :)

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1 hour ago, Diane40 said:

Update:  Just wanted to report to all interested that the negative account mentioned in this thread is gone .. gone .. gone.  Did a dispute and presented all documentation including the other CRA's reports and the account has been removed from Equifax .. score jumped over 50 points .. fako that is ... not sure about fico.  The moral of this story .. keep a papertrail .. old reports etc for backup .. who does not make mistakes .. be it Creditor or CRA.  Happy .. Happy .. Happy.  ;->  Thank you to all who responded and for the good advice.  Have a good weekend.  :)

Or with the debtor as life happens and sometimes beyond our control ... not to defraud.

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