Vantage 3.0 is simply BSC ("bat-shit crazy")

[hdporter]

To date, my attitude about Vantage Score could be summed up as "Vantage is Vantage" (calling to mind a former Perdue chicken ad catch-phrase, "Parts is Parts").

 -

I reasoned that it's no proxy for a FICO score (and therefore, not meaningful when it comes to insight into how lenders evaluate us), but that score changes and their cause should reasonably parallel those of FICO.  As such, a fair number of websites providing Vantage-related credit information could be relied upon to provide reliable alerts to events that impact FICO, without having to pay for myFICO updates every month.

 

A WalletHub Vantage Score alert today turned that perception on its head.  "Vantage is BSC" will be firmly fixed in my mind hereon ...

 

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Some brief background re my FICO scores:  I have 30+ years of history, 10+ yr average age, overall utilization < 5%, and typically run no card over 30%.  I pay monthly charges after billing, so they're fully reflected on my credit report.  I typically have around $20k in major-purchase balance that I'm revolving on 0% credit card promo/bt offers against which I make "aggressive" payments (an 18-mo amortization tends to me my target, with 9-12 mo remaining on average at any given time, as new purchases are added occasionally).  I typically show only 1 or 2 inquiries in the last 12-mo for any CRA.

 

In absence of anything unusual, that lies outside the above characterization, my FICO 4/8 scores typically are in the ballpark of 820/850, respectively.  Since I'm quite satisfied with anything in the upper 700's, I have considerable room in which to occasionally hold an "unusual" balance.

 

In the last year, I transacted a couple of extraordinary major purchases (A/C, etc) that I didn't want to draw down my cash holdings (I admit to having poor discipline in putting the cash back without a stick up my ...; now you know the "chink" in my armor).  So early last year I transferred $18k of purchases over to a new $20k CL card, at 1% bt rate.  (I have a $20k+ inflow coming in March from which I'll pay off this balance.)

 

FICO impact of this has been to keep my FICO 4/8 scores to approx 780/810 (40 pt hit).

 

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So let's talk Vantage ...

 

It's been apparent, since its inception, that Vantage has a smaller tolerance for revolving debt balances in excess of $20k, no matter what the effective line utilization.  As a consequence, my Vantage scores have been lower than my FICO's.  Just prior to the $18k in new, promo-rate revolving debt balance, by Vantage score was 754.  Subsequently, they've run in the 710-720 range -- a decline reasonably consistent with my FICO score shift from the debt.  ("Vantage is Vantage").

 

---> So, today, I'm alerted to a substantial Vantage score change vs just Jan 28, when my score was 713.  There is just one new change to my credit report noted:

 

-- As of Feb 3, 2019, your closed Neiman Marcus Credit Card dropped off your credit report.

 

This account was opened Feb 2009, used once and the statement PIF, then was closed (due to inactivity) June 2015.

 

So I lost a positive account from my TU report with 10 years of history.  Referring to the TU report I happened to pull earlier this week on Jan 29, here are salient details (I invite you to speculate on my Vantage Score upon deletion of this account 5 days later ... don't peak below!😞

 

Opened:  02/01/2009

Date Pd:  03/25/2009

Closed:  06/20/2015

Date Updated:  07/27/2015

 

Credit Limit $5000

High Balance $940

 

Account Type:  Revolving Acct

Responsibility:  Individual

Pay Status:  Current; Paying or Paid as Agreed

 

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....

 

....

 

....

 

....

 

Here it comes  ...

 

Your Credit Improved!

As of Feb 3, 2019, you improved your credit standing from Good to Excellent relative to the day before. You might now qualify for better credit cards and loans.

 

Score improved from 713 to 756 ... "BSC!"

 

< Yeah ... "tell us something we don't know ..." >

 

 

 

 

[Kat58]

1 hour ago, hdporter said:

-- As of Feb 3, 2019, your closed Neiman Marcus Credit Card dropped off your credit report.

Obviously, this is not the reason your score improved (reminds me of mycrapo).

 

Did your overall $ just dip under $20k? Something else happened.

 

[hegemony]

vantage x.0 is to credit scoring as subprime discover is to credit cards

[Kat58]

yawn

 

 

[ccn3]

I've come to the conclusion that Vantage scores are utterly useless. IME they have tended to go up and down in tandem, but to such wildly different degrees that it is virtually meaningless to gauge anything. Mine used to be nearly identical to my FICO scores, but now they are 50-100 points lower than my FICO scores. I think as my credit has improved Vantage has lagged behind, while FICO has noted the improvement.

Edited February 3, 2019 by ccn3

[hdporter]

50 minutes ago, Kat58 said:

Obviously, this is not the reason your score improved (reminds me of mycrapo).

 

Did your overall $ just dip under $20k? Something else happened.

 

There were no other changes to my report between the two scores.  (WalletHub, my Vantage source, reports all balance changes as they're detected). 

 

If I were to see this post by someone else (who was not established as rigorously reliable), I'd have the same response ("something else").

 

I'd love to think that if I ran a myFICO right now for TU, I'd see a comparable score spike.  However, not a chance.

 

I don't believe I've encountered a more bizarre Vantage Score anecdote.  If I were to speculate what there was about the NM store card tradeline that "formerly" nailed by Vantage Score, I can only point to the fact that there was only 2 months of reported activity during its 6 year life.  Nothing else stands out as exceptional.

 

A couple of sidenotes, FWIW:

 

You reference $20k "overall".  I'll note there are no balance changes in the score interim.  My actual total revolving balance is approx $32k (on $684 total CL; just under 5% ... Christmas / Mexico holiday pushed Jan statement balances up).

 

TU credit report information is based upon consumer report d/l from TU website (non-subscription ... standard consumer disclosures, available monthly free to GA residents).

[hdporter]

59 minutes ago, Kat58 said:

yawn

 

 

Anticipated with:  < Yeah ... "tell us something we don't know ..." >  😎

[cv91915]

3 hours ago, hegemony said:

vantage x.0 is to credit scoring as subprime discover is to credit cards

Plus eleven

[MP80]

Actually, my VantageScore has always higher than my FICO Score by 20-30 points in differences, VantageScore weighs heavily on credit utilization and FICO has a secret formula that no one knows how its analyze into a calculation.  

[JunkBuyersWorstNightmare]

On 2/3/2019 at 3:14 PM, ccn3 said:

I've come to the conclusion that Vantage scores are utterly useless. IME they have tended to go up and down in tandem, but to such wildly different degrees that it is virtually meaningless to gauge anything. Mine used to be nearly identical to my FICO scores, but now they are 50-100 points lower than my FICO scores. I think as my credit has improved Vantage has lagged behind, while FICO has noted the improvement.

 

Basically my experience. I give Vantage "scores" no Creedence. 

[Kat58]

 

 

[JunkBuyersWorstNightmare]

36 minutes ago, Kat58 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I adored those guys. Still listen to them.

[cv91915]

9 hours ago, JunkBuyersWorstNightmare said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I adored those guys. Still listen to them.

Dad?

[centex]

On 2/3/2019 at 2:14 PM, ccn3 said:

I've come to the conclusion that Vantage scores are utterly useless. IME they have tended to go up and down in tandem, but to such wildly different degrees that it is virtually meaningless to gauge anything. Mine used to be nearly identical to my FICO scores, but now they are 50-100 points lower than my FICO scores. I think as my credit has improved Vantage has lagged behind, while FICO has noted the improvement.

Until there is confirmation that ANY lender uses it for decisioning an application, they ARE utterly useless...they are no different than any other FAKO on the market.

[JunkBuyersWorstNightmare]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:19 AM, centex said:

Until there is confirmation that ANY lender uses it for decisioning an application, they ARE utterly useless...they are no different than any other FAKO on the market.

+1,000.

[JunkBuyersWorstNightmare]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:12 AM, cv91915 said:

Dad?

:rotfl:

[centex]

Saw a new reason for why my Vantage score wasn't higher...

 

"Average credit limit on open bankcards is too low"

 

That was the new one on the Suckrony site when I looked a little while ago...that one in addition to the lack of real estate loan information reporting (which has always been on the vantage list I get).  Only way I can see the algorithm claiming ACL was low is if they factor in non-reporting limits as a zero.