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Genie

Help winning with a rebuttal letter to my bank

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It’s for a car rental that the auto insurer is responsible for as my car was totaled by an at-fault driver. I have proof of the rental reservation they made (which they sent via text) and I also have a receipt showing the car is $23.99/day.

Progressive is supposed to pay for the rental. I, however, provided my card as it was a requirement for a $50 refundable fee. So I didn’t provide authorization to be billed but I’m concerned they’ll use my deposit to dispute my rebuttal. It’s a lot of money that they charged me and I need this refund. Currently, my bank refunded me other transactions from them for $261.98 but then they denied this recent one which is for two charges of $204.06 and $100.00 that I disputed together plus 3 overdraft transaction from my bank for $36. Right there that’s $304.06 charged by the rental company and $108.00 in bank fees.

 

The rebuttal form that I need to complete says: Please provide all new and relevant information to this case that was not provided at the time the claim was opened below that should be considered to reopen your case.

 

The denied dispute letter said:

During our investigation, we determined that no error occurred and your case is being denied. It also says I have the right to request copies of any documents that were used in decisioning my claim.

 

About the claims I had entered with my bank: I seem to have worded it differently...

 

This is what I wrote for the denied claim: My auto insurance agreed to pay for this rental car. I only provided my card to them for a refundable deposit which has nothing to do with this transaction but they are billing me more. Thus, this is why I’m disputing this transaction as I should not be billed. I returned the car in perfect condition with the gas tank filled. My insurance is taking care of the payments. I did not provide my card to be billed more. Please refund...

 

This is what I wrote for the approved claim:

According to ENTERPRISE RENT-A-CAR records my auto insurance agreed to pay my rental car. I only provided my card to them for a refundable $50 deposit which has nothing to do with this transaction but they are billing me more. Now there are multiple transactions. Thus, this is why I’m disputing this transaction as I shouldn’t be billed. I returned the car in perfect condition with the gas tank filled. My insurance is taking care of the payments.

 

According to ENTERPRISE RENT-A-CAR records my auto insurance agreed to pay my rental car. I only provided my card to them for a refundable $50 deposit which has nothing to do with this transaction but they are billing me more. Now there are multiple $50 transactions. Thus, this is why I’m disputing this transaction as I shouldn’t be billed. I returned the car in perfect condition with the gas tank filled. My insurance is taking care of the payments.

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This is a debit card chargeback?

 

What was the reason for the denial of your claim?

 

I would definitely ask for copies of documents that were used in making the original decision.

 

Is it common for insurance companies to be billed directly by a car rental company?  Were you supposed to pay the bill and then receive reimbursement after submitting receipts?

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What has the claims adjuster told you since they are the ones who would have been responsible for making the reservation?  Some companies absorb everything from the beginning while others put the cost of the rental on the individual, with repayment coming as part of the settlement at the back end of the claim...

 

Sadly, you have two of the crappier components in the equation...Progressive is the nut low and Enterprise is not much better. 

 

NEVER use a debit card for rental vehicles (or any other reason).  You lack many of the rights to recourse that are available with real credit cards. 

 

Where is YOUR insurance carrier in all of this?

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I don't recall if I used my pin. I provided my card for the $50 refundable deposit as a requirement. The insurance (Progressive) would take care of the payments. 

 

I gave them my card because it was refundable. I offered cash too but I think they didn't accept it. 

 

I was billed around 6 or more times by the Merchant. I'm not supposed to pay anything. I returned the car in perfect condition. The insurance is paying directly. Seems they want to make more money off of me.

 

The car is $23.99/daily and I only had it for a few days and I'm being charged more than it costs, more than my monthly insurance, more than a financed car monthly payment. Yet the insurance is paying for it so I shouldn't even be billed...

 

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My car insurance carrier is the same insurance carrier of the at-fault driver...

I have progressive select and he has progressive american insurance co. 

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Have you reached out to Enterprise to discuss this?  If, as you say, Enterprise confirmed your insurance I paying for the rental and Enterprise appears to accidentally have billed you directly, why not ask for a refund from Enterprise.  Or as Centex suggested, as the claims adjuster handling the case and see what is up. 

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1 hour ago, Genie said:

My car insurance carrier is the same insurance carrier of the at-fault driver...

I have progressive select and he has progressive american insurance co. 

WHO had the rental car coverage??  If it was the other driver they owe you nothing until a court of law says they do even if you do have the same insurer.

 

When I had to have my car fixed after being damaged in an accident Progressive provided me with the rental car directly not by sending me to another agency.  Are you certain they didn't must make the reservation and were planning to reimburse at the end of the claim?

 

You need to start with the claims agent and find out specifically how that part of the claim was going to be paid.

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Using a PIN does not change the fact that a debit card is in play and you lack protections that come with real cards. 

 

The amount being charged for the rental on any scale relative to a note loan is irrelevant and should not even be a component of the discussions.  As rental rates go, you have a steal.  It is entirely possible they have also added other fees that the prudent renter tends to decline simply because they are pure profit juice for the company.  But again, these are ALL discussions that you need to be having with the claims adjuster.  And no, they are not responsible for overdraft fees.  You made the decision to provide a debit card.

 

There is a difference in the specific language used.  I have seen loaners where the claimant was paying fees upfront but was reimbursed at the back end while others were entirely covered by the insurance company.  I have, fortunately, never had Progressive nor been hit by one of their soon-to-be-dumped customers.  But those I know that DID have the misfortune of dealing with them described it as one of the WORST experiences of their insurance lives...

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If everything you said was true, its quite simple really:

 

Step 1: Ask Progressive why they did not pay for your rental at the time you returned it, tell them to do so immediately if they have not already.

 

Step 2: Ask Enterprise why they mistakenly billed your card for charges that were paid for by Progressive, and to refund them immediately.

 

If everything you said was true, all charges should soon be refunded to your debit card.  THEN and ONLY THEN do you notify your bank that the disputed charges in question have been refunded by the merchant.  Then usually the bank will refund the associated overdraft fees etc, once they see the merchant refunded the charges in question.

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18 hours ago, Genie said:

My card is a Master Card from Suntrust bank towards my checking account.

A logo'ed debit card is STILL a sucky debit card.  You lack the protections that come with real cards.  GET A REAL CARD as quickly as possible.

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On 1/16/2019 at 11:22 AM, centex said:

A logo'ed debit card is STILL a sucky debit card.  You lack the protections that come with real cards.  GET A REAL CARD as quickly as possible.

Hi, can you explain what you mean by real cards and not a debit card?

Is that like an American Express?

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1 hour ago, Genie said:

Hi, can you explain what you mean by real cards and not a debit card?

Is that like an American Express?

A REAL credit card...this would be MasterCard, VISA, American Express or even (**gag**) Discover.  Something that is issued by a lender and has an actual credit limit and, more importantly, protections that do not exist with a sucky debit card.  The mere fact that a card tied to your bank account has a logo on it does NOT change its status as a sucky debit card.

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This is what the rental company said: It looks like the insurance company covered the rental from December 13th until December 17th. From December 18th to December 26th, it looks like the main renter was responsible for the rental charges. I am also showing the Damage Waiver was added to the rental for an additional $21.99 per day. It looks like the insurance company did not cover the Damage Waiver. The total the main renter was responsible for with taxes and fees included was $566.04.

 

They are charging me for a damage waiver. They told me in person that the same insurance I covered the car while I rented it, so that would be free. Yet I returned the vehicle in perfect condition. I was also informed by them that my insurance agreed to pay after that given date above. So now they're trying to charge me extra and the insurance is trying to leave me with this bill. The car supposedly cost $23.99/day. I had to return it on the 26th due to the holidays and their location being closed.

 

 

I'm waiting on the documentation the bank has about this dispute. 

 

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Okay, you know what the Rental Agency is saying and what dates they say the Insurance Company was paying for the rental, what does the Insurance Company say about what dates they were covering the rental for?  That should be your next step.

 

Also, look at the contract you signed for the rental, did you initial that you accepted the Damage Waiver?  If you accepted it, then you pay it, even if you returned the car without damage.  It is an "insurance policy" against damage done to the rental while you rent the car.  You don't get a refund if no damage.

 

 

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Concur that you need to be reviewing the paperwork.  EVERY rental I had required me to initial to decline their add-ons (with the exception of my National rentals since that information is stored in the profile and I just get in the car and go without dealing with a clerk). 

 

Sadly, you are quickly finding out why smart people tend to avoid Progressive at all costs...it will not surprise me if they made a decision that the car required only one week in the shop and so that was all they were paying for. 

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So it sounds like Enterprise charged you for their additional B.S. damage waiver, the question is: did you agree to this when you signed the paperwork at the time you rented the car?  It's highly unusual for damage waiver to be added to an insurance paid rental. However, It is very common for them to try and add it when the renter is paying.   So you will need to fight with Enterprise to get that charge waived and it's going to be a hassle.

 

And be forwarned- if you instead attempt to keep disputing through your bank, you will most likely be banned for life from renting from Enterprise.  It is their standard policy when someone does a credit card/debit card chargeback. 

 

Again, you must take it up with enterprise. And in the future, BE VERY CAREFUL you are not accidentally agreeing to added products and services when you rent a vehicle, regardless of who you think is paying for it.

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On 1/18/2019 at 3:08 PM, Glacier said:

Okay, you know what the Rental Agency is saying and what dates they say the Insurance Company was paying for the rental, what does the Insurance Company say about what dates they were covering the rental for?  That should be your next step.

 

Also, look at the contract you signed for the rental, did you initial that you accepted the Damage Waiver?  If you accepted it, then you pay it, even if you returned the car without damage.  It is an "insurance policy" against damage done to the rental while you rent the car.  You don't get a refund if no damage.

 

 

I declined it and my initials are shown

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On 1/18/2019 at 5:49 PM, WestCoastKid said:

So it sounds like Enterprise charged you for their additional B.S. damage waiver, the question is: did you agree to this when you signed the paperwork at the time you rented the car?  It's highly unusual for damage waiver to be added to an insurance paid rental. However, It is very common for them to try and add it when the renter is paying.   So you will need to fight with Enterprise to get that charge waived and it's going to be a hassle.

 

And be forwarned- if you instead attempt to keep disputing through your bank, you will most likely be banned for life from renting from Enterprise.  It is their standard policy when someone does a credit card/debit card chargeback. 

 

Again, you must take it up with enterprise. And in the future, BE VERY CAREFUL you are not accidentally agreeing to added products and services when you rent a vehicle, regardless of who you think is paying for it.

Hi, yes I did find my agreement with Enterprise where it clearly shows my initials declining this damage waiver. I submitted this document as evidence to Suntrust, my bank with the rebuttal form and they denied it like they didn't even look through it. Now, Suntrust closed both my bank accounts in consequence of this. 

 

I had requested the documentation Enterprise provided my bank with they were promised many times. Months went by and I never received anything. Enterprise also didn't provide any documents but just an invoice.

 

Enterprise says they escalated to the regional office yet I don't hear from them.

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On 1/18/2019 at 4:02 PM, centex said:

Concur that you need to be reviewing the paperwork.  EVERY rental I had required me to initial to decline their add-ons (with the exception of my National rentals since that information is stored in the profile and I just get in the car and go without dealing with a clerk). 

 

Sadly, you are quickly finding out why smart people tend to avoid Progressive at all costs...it will not surprise me if they made a decision that the car required only one week in the shop and so that was all they were paying for. 

Yes, I found the paperwork. It shows declined... which auto insurance do you recommend?

 

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On 1/18/2019 at 10:36 AM, centex said:

A REAL credit card...this would be MasterCard, VISA, American Express or even (**gag**) Discover.  Something that is issued by a lender and has an actual credit limit and, more importantly, protections that do not exist with a sucky debit card.  The mere fact that a card tied to your bank account has a logo on it does NOT change its status as a sucky debit card.

Great tip! I'm using these cards for things like this from now on for the protection. My bank denied the claim twice and now closed my bank accounts. If this were those cards I'm sure I'd have the money back especially with the proof I sent them.

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