Jump to content

imwonderboy

Debt Validation Ignored - Now Getting Sued

Recommended Posts

Long story short:

 

I have a $7,000 CC debt that is now with portfolio recovery.  In July I received a letter from an attorney telling me to pay or go to court - the letter also gave me instructions for debt validation.  Within 30 days I sent them a request for debt validation pursuant to the FDCPA.  This was sent certified and they signed for it.

 

I heard nothing else until yesterday when I received a court notice that they have filed a claim against me.  

 

My interpretation of the FDCPA section 809 is that they are supposed to stop all collection efforts once a request for validation is requested.  In this case they did not send me anything at all and just went ahead and filed a claim in court.  

 

Am I reading into this wrong?  I live in NH if that helps.

 

Advice on how to proceed??

 

I know the SOL is about 5 months away so they might be worried that they will not get a court date in time so they just filed it hoping I would let it go.  

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to Crediboards!

We hope that you find what you're looking for here.

Some helpful tips:

  • Your post may not get a reply right away. Don't be discouraged, this is a very busy board. If it falls off of the first page, feel free to reply to your post yourself, with the word *bump* in the text. This will *bump* your post back up to the top of the board.
  • If you haven't yet, take a peek at out Newbies Section. Everything that you need to know is in that forum, for the most part. It's a lot of reading, we know, but this credit stuff can have a steep learning curve. In no time, you'll be posting like the pros!
  • If you find that someone is discourteous to you, use the REPORT button at the bottom of every post - that will ensure that a moderator or admin looks at the post and decides if it is against the TOS.
  • Off -topic posts should go in the General Forum.

 

Again, welcome to the CreditBoards family!

CB Admin: LKH, Pam, radi8, breeze & MarvBear

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They can "sue out of the blue" if they want to. DV is a toothless dog in most cases That law states that they must do thus and so UNLESS (read that part) they have already provided the name of the creditor and the amount sought. If they have, they can ignore the request.

 

Best way to run PRA off is arbitration, if the card agreement has it. They have to pay for it, and they walk away 95% of the time. A cease and desist is better than DV; they usually violate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They can sue you at any time. 

 

As far as I know, sending a FDCPA demand for validation only stops collection activity until they validate, which is a very low threshold. They really only need to send you the name and amount of the creditor. The very basics. They don't need to send proof or anything like that.

 

I am not aware of court precedents that would block them from filing a lawsuit without first sending validation. There might be, but I don't think there is.

 

As for how to proceed now. You file an answer with the court and mail a copy to the other side. This is something you HAVE to do in order to avoid a default judgment. And it is also very easy to do.

 

http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-an-answer/

 

Just type up your first page so it looks like their first page with the court name, plaintiff and defendant name(s), case number, etc.

 

Listing their paragraphs, you respond to each number of their complaint with something like this...

 

In response to paragraph 15:

"answering defendant at this time has insufficient information available to admit or deny allegation and on that basis denies allegation"

 

You can google examples online for how to format and word your ANSWER to the lawsuit. It is really easy. Don't give them anything. Just admit to your name. Deny the paragraphs you know are false. And claim you have insufficient info on anything you are worried about that would make you look guilty.

 

By filing the answer, now the Plaintiff has to prepare for a much longer legal battle. That means their expenses go WAY up. They were hoping to scare you into a settlement or getting a default judgment because you ignored the lawsuit. 

 

After you answer they will likely have a trial date scheduled for 12-18 months in the future. Discovery schedules, pre-trail motions, etc. They have to budget $10,000 to $20,000 for all of that. Does it really make sense for them to spend $20,000 over the course of 12-18 months to chase a $7,000 bad debt. Not really.

 

After you ANSWER them officially and they discuss it at their office, you can likely negotiate with them to dismiss their entire case and they go away. They don't want to go to trial. They will ask for $1,000 to $3,000. Just play hardball and tell them they can dismiss the case and move on. No payment will be made.

Edited by RocketGoBoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, legaleagle2012 said:

Best way to run PRA off is arbitration, if the card agreement has it. They have to pay for it, and they walk away 95% of the time. A cease and desist is better than DV; they usually violate it.

 

This is also good advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As noted, litigation can move forward without 'validation' but you ALSO have far greater tools at your disposal vis-a-vis discovery as allowed by the Rules of Civil Procedure.  This actually gives you access to far more than would have been required outside of litigation.

 

Do not buy into the tripe about costs going up though as a basis for firms setting the case to the side and moving on to a different target.  Most civil work in this arena is not being billed hourly in the same manner as if you went out and secured your own counsel.  Many are handled with in-house counsel that is on salary.  That does NOT mean you won't be taxed a sizeable sum if you lose and judgment is awarded.  In those instances, the Court will award fees based upon the number of hours put in on the case, with the office likely having a 'reasonable and just' sum that has been recognized by the Court.  It won't be close to what I get, for example (I get ~$350/hour in the Western District of Texas in cases where the Court is awarding the fees), but you can reasonably expect to see something in excess of $150/hr. 

 

What makes litigation profitable for the third-party offices is that the fees awarded often exceed the amount at controversy.  And while you might not have that sum today, the judgment lives for at least a decade in most jurisdictions, collecting post-judgment interest at a rate often between 8-12% AND the judgment can often be renewed at least once.  That interest adds up across a 10-15 year period of time...and they KNOW you will have to pay at some juncture if you want to do something simple like buy a house.  In some States, they can also attach assets, to include basics like a bank account. 

 

With rare exception, most on CB (and other debt-related forums) have never been involved with the actual day-to-day practices related to law, whether the actions were litigation or even the more mundane things of day-to-day office operations like billing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.courts.state.nh.us/rules/supercr-new/supercr-new-9.htm

 

https://www.courts.state.nh.us/forms/nhjb-2689-se.pdf

 

PRA has about 2-300 invested in your 7K account. Do you think they want to spend $4700 up front to start  AAA arbitration? Highly unlikely in the event your creditor offers it. Nor do they want a protracted legal battle; it makes no financial sense. They depend on 95% default judgments. I have dealt with PRA (thanks for the check, boys) and their in-house counsel are not licensed in all 50 states. They have to hire a lawyer where you live, or at least have some sort of agreement with 50 different law firms. They probably do, since the same names pop up all the time, but these law firms do not work cheap. The amount of resistance they offer depends on the amount you put up, and how good you are at it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filing a lawsuit before responding to a timely DV request violates the FDCPA

 

The debt collector is perfectly free to sue within thirty days; he just must cease his efforts at collection during the interval between being asked for verification of the debt and mailing the verification to the debtor. 15 U.S.C. § 1692g(b).  Bartlett v. Heibl, 128 F.3d 497, 501 (7th Cir.1997).

 

If the debt collector chooses not to wait until the end of the validation period to commence debt collection litigation, an explanation of the lawsuit's impact — or more accurately, lack of impact — on the disclosures made in the validation notice must be provided. This explanation should be set forth in either the validation notice itself, or in a notice provided with the summons and complaint. The best practice is to provide an explanation in both the validation notice and the summons and complaint. Clarifying that commencement of a lawsuit does not trump the validation notice will come at little or no cost to debt collectors and will ensure that the consumer rights secured under the FDCPA are not overshadowed or contradicted.  Ellis v. Solomon and Solomon, P.C., 591 F.3d 130, 137 (2d Cir. 2010).

 

Edited by Bluesie58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/31/2018 at 4:23 AM, RocketGoBoom said:

After you answer they will likely have a trial date scheduled for 12-18 months in the future. Discovery schedules, pre-trail motions, etc. They have to budget $10,000 to $20,000 for all of that. Does it really make sense for them to spend $20,000 over the course of 12-18 months to chase a $7,000 bad debt. Not really.

WHERE do you get this garbage? First the ONLY district that I am aware of that takes over a year to schedule trial dates is Orange County California.  MAYBE New York due to the large dense population.  The courts in New Hampshire are not that loaded and will likely schedule a trial date within 30-60 days at most.  Even the busy Atlanta Fulton County Courts get Magistrate cases set within 30 days of receiving the Defendant's answer.  Second:  many Magistrate, Small Claims or Justice Courts do not even allow discovery.  For example:  Georgia does not allow discovery in Magistrate Court and Texas requires permission from the court in Justice Court and permission is not always granted.  Pre-trial motions?  The only one the Plaintiff would be filing is a Motion for Summary Judgment;  the Defendant:  dismissal or arbitration.  NOT a huge number of filings if any at all.   Last:  NO JDB is spending $20k per case to try it.  If it isn't in house counsel like Centex said they are hiring a large collection law firm on an annual retainer for a specified number of cases/hours including litigation knowing that if they prevail the court awards the attorney fees back to them.  It is a flat fee per standard case around $1500.  Not even close to your delusional estimate.

On 10/30/2018 at 3:25 PM, imwonderboy said:

In this case they did not send me anything at all and just went ahead and filed a claim in court.  

They don't have to prove you received their response to validation only that they sent it and NO they are not required to send it certified mail return receipt.  Merely producing a copy of a letter dated prior to the filing they state they sent will be sufficient for the court they responded.  The other major problem is the maximum possible fine for an FDCPA violation is $1,000.  Your debt is 7 times that amount.  PRA won't care.  They will simply deduct any award for a violation from the amount they are awarded.  

 

An FDCPA violation works when the debt is less than $1k or close to that amount.  As soon as the debt is 2.5 times more than the maximum possible fine the benefits of continuing out weigh any possible consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/30/2018 at 3:25 PM, imwonderboy said:

I have a $7,000 CC debt that is now with portfolio recovery.

WHO did they buy the debt from?  While the demand for arbitration can work there are some creditors where it won't.  Capital 1 has removed arbitration as an option almost 10 years ago and CITI and Credit One have carve outs for small claims cases.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CreditSucksNot said:

WHERE do you get this garbage?

 

(snipped a bunch of useless info)

 

 The only one the Plaintiff would be filing is a Motion for Summary Judgment;  the Defendant:  dismissal or arbitration.  NOT a huge number of filings if any at all.   Last:  NO JDB is spending $20k per case to try it.  If it isn't in house counsel like Centex said they are hiring a large collection law firm on an annual retainer for a specified number of cases/hours including litigation knowing that if they prevail the court awards the attorney fees back to them.  It is a flat fee per standard case around $1500.  Not even close to your delusional estimate.

 

 

 

$7,000 is beyond the range of most small claims courts.

Most small claims courts are limited to $5,000.

 

In my county, that would mean that by filing an ANSWER on time, the court would then setup the trial schedule with deadlines for discovery, pretrial motions and eventually trial. That trial would be 12-18 months in the future.

 

A certain percentage of all cases are referred automatically to mediation under a test program that the local courts are doing. But anyone can make a motion for that mediation and it will likely be granted.

 

There is simply no way that a law firm, hired by the JDB, is going to do any of this for only $1,500. They can spend that much on one single day of preparing for and waiting around in court for their hearing time. $1,500 is likely what they charge if they get a default judgment. If there is an answer and they have to do more work, then the bill goes up dramatically.

 

It is relatively easy to intentionally drive up their bill. MSJ from the plaintiff is easy to defeat, so that isn't going to get the job done.

 

In-house lawyers are not allowed to represent the JDB in court usually. They have to hire outside law firms and the in-house lawyers just manage the outside law firms.

 

 

You guys here on CB vastly overestimate the quality of lawyers involved in the collection industry. It is the bottom of the barrel on the legal totem pole. The lawyers involved in this arm pit of the legal industry graduated from the worst 4th tier law schools. They are quite often utterly incompetent. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

$7,000 is beyond the range of most small claims courts.

Most small claims courts are limited to $5,000.

Again, you are straight up wrong.  In Georgia the limit is $15k.  Many courts/states have expanded it to $10k with the changing economic standard.

22 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

In my county, that would mean that by filing an ANSWER on time, the court would then setup the trial schedule with deadlines for discovery, pretrial motions and eventually trial. That trial would be 12-18 months in the future.

Well there is the problem.  You base ALL your answers on your limited biased scope of knowledge based on your county.  LOTS of court rooms in many of the states do not work on that time frame.  

24 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

There is simply no way that a law firm, hired by the JDB, is going to do any of this for only $1,500. They can spend that much on one single day of preparing for and waiting around in court for their hearing time.

Again, you are wrong.  Most likely because you are basing your statement on your limited scope of knowledge.  It is VERY cost effective for the attorney to attend court.  You are delusional to believe he is standing around waiting on one case to be heard.  These firms book anywhere from 12-20 or more cases in a single trial day knowing that 90% or more will not show.  The hearings even if there is a trial take less than 30 minutes and more likely 15 minutes at most even if the Defendant shows and fights back. 

28 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

In-house lawyers are not allowed to represent the JDB in court usually. They have to hire outside law firms and the in-house lawyers just manage the outside law firms.

Even if a larger firm or in house counsel that files the case hires a local yokel attorney to be in court for them they typically are not hired for one case.  They are loaded up for the entire day if not several days.  Some consumers win their cases because of this.  The hired gun attorney has a stack of files, no time to review and has no knowledge of the case they are trying.

29 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

You guys here on CB vastly overestimate the quality of lawyers involved in the collection industry. It is the bottom of the barrel on the legal totem pole. The lawyers involved in this arm pit of the legal industry graduated from the worst 4th tier law schools. They are quite often utterly incompetent.

Actually I would say the one making the over estimation is you.  There was a time almost a decade ago when that was true.  However, after the CFPB stepped in and went after not only JDBs but the large law firms (like Freddie Hanna) they have grossly cleaned up their act.  Do a few occasionally fall through the cracks where the attorney comes unprepared?  Sure but by and large times have changed and tactics that you are claiming as 100% effective no longer are.  The courts, attorneys and creditors have adapted but you have not.  The courts got wise to many defenses and creditors learned a lot about debt collection, evidence and laws after the recession.  There are bad members in every profession but painting EVERY attorney that does debt collection with the same skill level is a HUGE mistake in my opinion.  Without knowing who is involved you convince unprepared consumers that their attorney has the intelligence of a gnat leaving them unprepared to defend themselves when confronted with counsel who clearly is not.  BIG mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your fear mongering about debt collection lawsuits is ridiculous. That is not even remotely how these things play out.

 

If someone files an ANSWER that automatically takes them out of the mass production lawsuit mill process. About the only thing you got right in your response is that 90% don't show up to defend themselves.

 

Those that do show up and those that do file an answer are the ones that typically win because the collection lawsuit mills don't want to deal with the long drawn out process. The lawsuit mills are geared up for default judgments. Having to prepare individually for someone that is ready to defend themselves pro se often doesn't make sense for them because it involves future hearings and prep that doesn't fit into the model of as you wrote, "These firms book anywhere from 12-20 or more cases in a single trial day" 

 

When an individual throws a monkey wrench into that process by filing their own motions and scheduling their own hearings, then that collection mill lawyer has to spend individual time on the case and come to court just for that single case. That basically blows up any profitability on that case. That is why the lawsuit mills will often settle or dismiss entirely if someone just starts defending themselves. The entire business model of the JDB is based on going after the low hanging fruit. Hiring a real lawyer to actually spend time and effort on a single case file is not worth it.

 

Spending thousands of dollars that will never be recovered is a waste of money. That is why most of the successful JDB companies only file a lawsuit if there is evidence of solid employment or if the target owns real estate. Otherwise they typically just do annoying phone calls and letters.

 

You make is sound like these cases are automatic easy wins for the plaintiffs and they simply are not. If the defendant shows up and plays hardball, it is incredibly difficult for the plaintiff to get a judgment. In my experience the judges bend over backwards to help someone who is challenging the lawsuit mill collection lawyers. The judges know the game the lawsuit mills are playing and the judges are often pleased to see individuals fight back. Just showing up is often 90% of the way to victory against the lawsuit mills. 

Edited by RocketGoBoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have NEVER seen a good attorney in a collections case. I am currently involved in something much bigger, and it involves a major national law firm. I have had two oral arguments so far; in both cases the attorney they sent had thirty cases to argue, had no idea who I was or what the argument was about. In one case the attorney didn't even know if he was supposed to argue my case. Neither one of them made any kind of argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, legaleagle2012 said:

I have NEVER seen a good attorney in a collections case. I am currently involved in something much bigger, and it involves a major national law firm. I have had two oral arguments so far; in both cases the attorney they sent had thirty cases to argue, had no idea who I was or what the argument was about. In one case the attorney didn't even know if he was supposed to argue my case. Neither one of them made any kind of argument.

You act as if the lack of familiarity with a file is the sole province of the attorney doing debt collection work.  Have you ever seen docket call for felony arraignment dockets?  Guess what, the same thing happens.  It is even MORE pronounced on a traffic docket in muni court, and THOSE attorneys have actually been retained in every single case.  At least in felony courts, it is a case where few are appearing with retained counsel...most attorneys on an arraignment docket are appointed and are NOT familiar wiht the case.  

 

The reason engaged counsel tends not to be at arraignment is that they already waived it on behalf of their client and got an off-docket reset.  

 

No attorney on a trial docket expects to go to trial on every case set for trial on a particular date, and again, this is not unique to debt collection.  The reason they are often lined up on the same date is called judicial economy and is something the Clerk of the Court has done, often at the request of counsel (yeah, I could call and say "I've got to be there so and so...see what you can do to add these others" and it would generally be done).  

 

Few pro se litigants are properly prepared for court.  It is NOT as easy as some make it out to be, no matter HOW pro forma some parts of practice might be.  As to opposing counsel, there are MANY reasons some may go to work in that arena...not the least of which is experience and/or steady pay.  Some are lazy and want the path of least resistance, not the same as why some go into work for government agencies.  It does NOT mean they lack a sound legal mind.  It just means they may be content to get by on a few hundred thousand dollars per year, if that much (lots of government attorneys barely even make $100K annually).   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not being a felon myself, I have little direct experience with criminal matters. As for civil, I find it odd that judges will tolerate somebody coming to court for oral argument on a motion and the guy doesn't even know who you are or if he has that case. I am always prepared, and it is quite a trek to the court where arguments are held. My briefs are very detailed, and I mark my motions take papers. Judges seem to like to change that to oral argument, then this fiasco happens as described above. This is twice now where they sent some bozo to court who didn't have a clue and made no argument whatsoever. Next time this happens, I am going to ask the judge why he tolerates this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, legaleagle2012 said:

I have NEVER seen a good attorney in a collections case.

 

Neither have I. The collection industry lawyers are right next to auto insurance defense on the lawyer prestige totem pole. That is basically rock bottom for lawyers.

 

The types of lawyers that get assigned to collection lawsuits are the ones who graduated from the 4th tier law schools. There are about 200 law schools the USA. The excellent students apply to what is called the T14. The top 14 ranked law schools. Harvard, Yale, Stanford are considered the top 3 law schools. If you want a shot at being at the top of the legal world, you almost have to graduate from the T14 and it would be wise to get the top 3 (HYS).

 

Anyone outside of the T14 is going to struggle in the legal world because lawyers are very much into status and which law school they graduated from. 

 

Tier 1 is considered the top 50 law schools. (US News rankings)

Tier 2 is considered the 51-100 ranked law schools.

 

Tier 3 and 4 is anything ranked between 101-200 and it really doesn't matter at that point. Your career is weak if you are in tier 2. If you are in tier 3 or 4 for law school ranking you probably never should have even attended. 

 

50% of people that obtain a law degree NEVER get a job that requires that law degree. The field is so flooded that probably 100+ law schools need to just shut their doors and die.

 

Collection lawyers are at the bottom of that pile of dung. Quite literally, they were the guys and gals that barely got through school and took all of the remedial classes in college. Collection lawyers typically come from the law schools with open enrollment. Meaning EVERYONE got accepted just because anyone can get approved for federal student loans and pay the tuition.

 

Those low ranked 3rd and 4th tier law schools are scams using the federal student loan programs to keep their doors open and pay the high salaries of staff and administrators.

Edited by RocketGoBoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

Collection lawyers are at the bottom of that pile of dung. Quite literally, they were the guys and gals that barely got through school and took all of the remedial classes in college. Collection lawyers typically come from the law schools with open enrollment. Meaning EVERYONE got accepted just because anyone can get approved for federal student loans and pay the tuition.

It should be noted for ANYONE reading this garbage that it is nothing more than your personal opinion and you have no published data or research to back up this biased statement. 

 

Reading the nonsense you post I am quite literally shocked you can walk up right and breathe let alone use a keyboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CreditSucksNot said:

It should be noted for ANYONE reading this garbage that it is nothing more than your personal opinion and you have no published data or research to back up this biased statement. 

 

Reading the nonsense you post I am quite literally shocked you can walk up right and breathe let alone use a keyboard.

 

Much of it was documented several years ago on a very popular legal blog called "Inside the Law School Scam". It's author is a law professor at Univ of Colorado, Paul Campos. It received rave reviews from lawyers, judges and other law professors for accurately documenting the law school scam and the lousy job prospects for most law school grads.

 

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

 

I was an active reader back when he was writing and documenting all of this.

 

It is all true and well documented. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 5:40 AM, RocketGoBoom said:

The types of lawyers that get assigned to collection lawsuits are the ones who graduated from the 4th tier law schools. There are about 200 law schools the USA. The excellent students apply to what is called the T14. The top 14 ranked law schools. Harvard, Yale, Stanford are considered the top 3 law schools. If you want a shot at being at the top of the legal world, you almost have to graduate from the T14 and it would be wise to get the top 3 (HYS).

 

Anyone outside of the T14 is going to struggle in the legal world because lawyers are very much into status and which law school they graduated from. 

 

Tier 1 is considered the top 50 law schools. (US News rankings)

Tier 2 is considered the 51-100 ranked law schools.

 

Tier 3 and 4 is anything ranked between 101-200 and it really doesn't matter at that point. Your career is weak if you are in tier 2. If you are in tier 3 or 4 for law school ranking you probably never should have even attended. 

 

This is ONLY true if one is looking at BigLaw.  You know, the sort of place where the first-year associate can be expected to be putting in 80+ hours per week.  It is ALSO the sort of tripe spewed on some of the boards like TLS that believe anything other than T14 is a third-tier toilet. 

 

In all of my years doing the work I do, I can think of only one or two instances where a prospective client even ASKED about pedigree, much less really gave a damn about it. 

 

There are plenty of non-T14's who rock six and seven figures doing boutique firms, some in partnerships and some as solos.  But hey, keep shoveling that crap that a non-T14 does not know what they are doing...also remember that even the T14's have half of their class that finished in the bottom half.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, centex said:

This is ONLY true if one is looking at BigLaw.  You know, the sort of place where the first-year associate can be expected to be putting in 80+ hours per week.  It is ALSO the sort of tripe spewed on some of the boards like TLS that believe anything other than T14 is a third-tier toilet. 

 

In all of my years doing the work I do, I can think of only one or two instances where a prospective client even ASKED about pedigree, much less really gave a damn about it. 

 

There are plenty of non-T14's who rock six and seven figures doing boutique firms, some in partnerships and some as solos.  But hey, keep shoveling that crap that a non-T14 does not know what they are doing...also remember that even the T14's have half of their class that finished in the bottom half.   

DO NOT waste another minute of your life that you won't get back on this drooling mouth breathing life form that has a room temperature IQ.  He is nothing more than a "right fighter" who believes every word he utters is solid gold and thrives on those who are naive hanging on what he says.  He believes if he keeps repeating it, loudly if necessary it makes what he spews actually fact based and true.  Arguing logic and rational thought with him is pointless.  Hopefully the majority of people coming here see through it but sadly there will always be sheep that follow someone like that because he says what they want to hear not what the reality and truth really is.  Kinda like Jim Jones or David Koresh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, centex said:

This is ONLY true if one is looking at BigLaw.  You know, the sort of place where the first-year associate can be expected to be putting in 80+ hours per week.  It is ALSO the sort of tripe spewed on some of the boards like TLS that believe anything other than T14 is a third-tier toilet. 

 

In all of my years doing the work I do, I can think of only one or two instances where a prospective client even ASKED about pedigree, much less really gave a damn about it. 

 

There are plenty of non-T14's who rock six and seven figures doing boutique firms, some in partnerships and some as solos.  But hey, keep shoveling that crap that a non-T14 does not know what they are doing...also remember that even the T14's have half of their class that finished in the bottom half.   

 

It has nothing to do with the clients asking about pedigree. It is about the lawyers who do the hiring. They want the pedigree. The legal industry is a very status and prestige driven pecking order.

 

I agree that TLS has that attitude. They were very much against the concept of the "law school scam" back during the 2010-2013 time frame. Now that website is practically another JDUnderground with all their complaining about the legal industry BS.

 

And I never said anything about non-T14 not knowing what they are doing. Tier 1 students (schools ranked 15-50) are generally solid individuals that had to achieve competitive grades to get into those schools. They are likely competent lawyers for the most part. 

 

If you will reread what I wrote, I was saying that third tier toilet (3rd and 4th tier) students are the types you typically find in the collection industry or doing auto insurance defense. It is the armpit of the legal industry.

 

The competent lawyers that have real legal careers want nothing to do with it. The typical reason is because the margins are so thin. There is not much profit in chasing poor people that cannot pay their debts. As a result most lawyers have no interest that area of the law. That means the typical lawyer you find suing you for defaulted debt is very below average.

Edited by RocketGoBoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CreditSucksNot said:

DO NOT waste another minute of your life that you won't get back on this drooling mouth breathing life form that has a room temperature IQ.  He is nothing more than a "right fighter" who believes every word he utters is solid gold and thrives on those who are naive hanging on what he says.  He believes if he keeps repeating it, loudly if necessary it makes what he spews actually fact based and true.  Arguing logic and rational thought with him is pointless.  Hopefully the majority of people coming here see through it but sadly there will always be sheep that follow someone like that because he says what they want to hear not what the reality and truth really is.  Kinda like Jim Jones or David Koresh.

 

Everything I have been writing in this thread has been well documented by law school professors. This is common knowledge in the legal industry.

 

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

 

Paul Campos, tenured Law Professor at University of Colorado (Tier 1 law school)

 

He has received rave reviews from other lawyers, judges and law school students for his documenting and writing about these issues. He is published in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and many other magazines because he was one of the first to document these issues so strongly and it turns out he was correct.

 

I am not sure what you are arguing here. The things that I am writing about are not at all controversial. This info is now accepted as common knowledge in the legal industry. It was new back in 2011-2012 and somewhat debated. But now it is accepted as conventional wisdom.

Edited by RocketGoBoom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

 

Everything I have been writing in this thread has been well documented by law school professors. This is common knowledge in the legal industry.

 

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

 

Paul Campos, tenured Law Professor at University of Colorado (Tier 1 law school)

 

He has received rave reviews from other lawyers, judges and law school students for his documenting and writing about these issues. He is published in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and many other magazines because he was one of the first to document these issues so strongly and it turns out he was correct.

 

I am not sure what you are arguing here. The things that I am writing about are not at all controversial. This info is now accepted as common knowledge in the legal industry. It was new back in 2011-2012 and somewhat debated. But now it is accepted as conventional wisdom.

Second verse same as the first......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today.
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      175,283
    • Most Online
      1,528

    Newest Member
    ParisBplaychic
    Joined

About Us

Since 2003, creditboards.com has helped thousands of people repair their credit, force abusive collection agents to follow the law, ensure proper reporting by credit reporting agencies, and provided financial education to help avoid the pitfalls that can lead to negative tradelines.
×

Important Information

Guidelines