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cv91915 has set up a Go Fund Me page to take donations that will be used for flowers for breeze's memorial, and excess will be donated to a cancer charity in breeze's name.  If you'd like to participate, please go here:  https://www.gofundme.com/breeze-memorial .  If you have any questions about donating or the GFM, please reach out to cv91915.  
 
 
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Sunday, unexpectedly, we lost one of our own.  After a sudden diagnosis of liver cancer just two days before, our very own mama Breeze lost her battle with this disease and passed away on Sunday afternoon.   She passed peacefully surrounded by her family.
 
We know that many of you will be as devastated as we are to learn of this, and we know that you will share in our grief.  We will be in the Feedback forum with you, sharing our memories and our tears.  We encourage you to join us there.
 
We started on this journey fifteen years ago - breeze, Pam, LKH, and radi8.  Through everything that has transpired over the past fifteen years, we have always remained family - and Mama breeze was an integral part of that family.  We will be posting additional information here, as much as we can while still respecting her desire for privacy and anonymity.  For now, while we process our grief, we will close this notice with Godspeed, Mama.  We miss you so much already.

 

- Pam, LKH, radi8, Marv

- the mods and forum leads


cv91915

Reality Check on Negative FICO Score Factors

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For those who argue passionately that certain adverse actions were caused by the negative score factors listed on a credit score disclosure, I present you with this.

 

This is from a disclosure I just got from Chase.  This is the TU Classic 04 FICO model, commonly referred to as the mortgage FICO score, which for TU ranges from 309-839.  

 

As you can see I had an 810, despite five negative score factors -- an account is too new, there is insufficient installment loan data reporting, the balances on my revolving accounts are outrageous... and all of those inquiries

 

I've also annotated the score factors with some facts about what's actually in my TU file for some more perspective.

 

Despite the apparently atrocious shape of my TU report, we were not denied on this application.  In fact, we were approved with "super prime" terms.

 

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They have to put something in there for the 4 factors. I recall reading on one of those it had a special note for people with really high scores. It pointed out that every profile receives the 4 negative factors, even really high scores. But people with a very high score should not be concerned because it means nothing. Something has to populate the negative factor section.

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13 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

They have to put something in there for the 4 factors. I recall reading on one of those it had a special note for people with really high scores. It pointed out that every profile receives the 4 negative factors, even really high scores. But people with a very high score should not be concerned because it means nothing. Something has to populate the negative factor section.

Your point is basically the same as  mine.  One cannot infer that the reason for a credit decision is the negative score factors listed on a score disclosure.

 

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The one exception to this rule is a high number of inquiries. Not for your case obviously, but for me it did. I had a 820 FICO score two months ago (lower now after my app spree). I was denied near the end of my app spree for two cards because of "high number of recent inquiries".

 

In the adverse decision letter, it still quoted my Experian credit score at 809 with the new inquiries but none of the new accounts showing yet. I think there were only 3 new inquiries on Experian but maybe 12-14 total in the previous 2 years. A few together for an auto loan. A few related to mortgage in 2017.

 

I called to ask why they would decline my app with an 809 FICO score and only 3 recent inquiries. The credit review manager told me it was just automatic in their system with 10+ inquiries and he wasn't authorized to override it, despite my high FICO score.

 

Inquiries do matter with some creditors. It is stupid, but they matter. I am getting rid of inquiries from companies where I don't have an active account. Also getting rid of the batch of auto and mortgage inquiries. I don't see any risk to disputing those off my files. Nobody is going to cancel those loans because of me disputing their inquiries.

 

I know the mantra on CB is that inquiries don't matter. I respectfully disagree. 🙂 

Edited by RocketGoBoom

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11 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

The one exception to this rule is a high number of inquiries. Not for your case obviously, but for me it did. I had a 820 FICO score two months ago (lower now after my app spree). I was denied near the end of my app spree for two cards because of "high number of recent inquiries".

 

In the adverse decision letter, it still quoted my Experian credit score at 809 with the new inquiries but none of the new accounts showing yet. I think there were only 3 new inquiries on Experian but maybe 12-14 total in the previous 2 years. A few together for an auto loan. A few related to mortgage in 2017.

 

I called to ask why they would decline my app with an 809 FICO score and only 3 recent inquiries. The credit review manager told me it was just automatic in their system with 10+ inquiries and he wasn't authorized to override it, despite my high FICO score.

 

Inquiries do matter with some creditors. It is stupid, but they matter. I am getting rid of inquiries from companies where I don't have an active account. Also getting rid of the batch of auto and mortgage inquiries. I don't see any risk to disputing those off my files. Nobody is going to cancel those loans because of me disputing their inquiries.

 

I know the mantra on CB is that inquiries don't matter. I respectfully disagree. 🙂 

What were the other 3-4 negative score factors?

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16 minutes ago, cv91915 said:

What were the other 3-4 negative score factors?

 

On that decision letter it was only the number of inquiries. 

 

On my credit card free FICO scores, my negative score factors are similar to yours. Proportion of balances to credit limits too high, when I am around 1% utilization. Length of time accounts have been established, when we are over 5+ years on the ave and oldest is 17+ years. It is meaningless stuff that is not really negative. 

 

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6 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

 

On that decision letter it was only the number of inquiries. 

 

On my credit card free FICO scores, my negative score factors are similar to yours. Proportion of balances to credit limits too high, when I am around 1% utilization. Length of time accounts have been established, when we are over 5+ years on the ave and oldest is 17+ years. It is meaningless stuff that is not really negative. 

 

 

Who were the creditors that declined you over inquiries?

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3 hours ago, PotO said:

 

Who were the creditors that declined you over inquiries?

 

NASA Fed Credit Union for a line of credit. 

I have been a member there for over a year with a savings account.

Too many inquiries.

 

Sound Credit Union near Seattle.

Also been a member there for about a year with a savings account.

 

Both denied for too many inquiries while the FICO score was above 800. It is down a bit under 800 at the moment with a few new accounts showing up.

 

Edited by RocketGoBoom

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16 minutes ago, RocketGoBoom said:

 

NASA Fed Credit Union for a line of credit. 

I have been a member there for over a year with a savings account.

Too many inquiries.

 

Sound Credit Union near Seattle.

Also been a member there for about a year with a savings account.

 

Both denied for too many inquiries while the FICO score was above 800. It is down a bit under 800 at the moment with a few new accounts showing up.

 

 

Those are probably amongst the few who really do decline for inquiries.  

 

9 times out of 10, though, when a lender says you are declined for inquiries it is b.s.  We have seen people here on CB apply for Barclays and get shot down because they have 1/2 a dozen inquiries.  On the other hand, I have virtually never had less than a dozen fresh inquiries and when I apply for Barclays they give me whatever I ask for.  My wife applied for a FNBO card and they shot her down because she had 3 inquiries within the past year.  I also applied and they spread wide for me, yet I have 6 within the past 6 months.  Had the same happen with Wells Fargo.

 

Sometimes there are just too many moving parts to this whole scam and lenders themselves don't know WTF they really decline you for.  

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13 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

They have to put something in there for the 4 factors. I recall reading on one of those it had a special note for people with really high scores. It pointed out that every profile receives the 4 negative factors, even really high scores. But people with a very high score should not be concerned because it means nothing. Something has to populate the negative factor section.

 

12 hours ago, cv91915 said:

What were the other 3-4 negative score factors?

 

12 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

 

On that decision letter it was only the number of inquiries. 

 

A score disclosure is not the same thing as a decision letter.

 

I haven't suggested that a factor listed on a score disclosure cannot also be a reason for a denial.  Assuming causality is the pitfall to avoid.

 

Most credit decisions aren't just score-based (or even just credit-based) anyway.

 

Using our current HELOC as an example, if the title company finds a lien we can't resolve and Chase reverses its decision, we won't end up without a HELOC because I opened a Citi card in June.

 

Even credit card companies look at your income and your other debt.  Two people with identical credit reports applying for the same credit card could have two different outcomes because one earns a lot more money.   

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