CA will not supply address

[dsctrying]

Hi, I'm a college student funding my own education through loans and have been looking around the forum for some time with my Dad's account and he suggested I get my own account to ask about where to start with this problem.

 

Shortly after dropping out a sorority they sent me a bill for $2418.00 for what they described as fees for not showing up for events during a weekend last year. I was attending a family funeral out of town and had notified the President of that before leaving.   I disputed the fees in writing, but instead of answering my letters a CA is now calling. The CA has not sent anything in writing and refuses to give me their address.

 

What is my next step if any?

[breeze]

Welcome to CB. This is one of the craziest things I've heard! For starters, it's illegal for a CA to refuse to give out their address. Read up on the FDCPA for your rights. My best guess is this is the Sorority faking you out, try ing to get some money out of you- They figure you won't know any better. 

 

There might be some state laws to help, if you want to tell use what state you're in.

[dsctrying]

Thanks so much for your reply and I'll read up on that. I'm in OH.

[cv91915]

What does your written contract with the sorority say?

 

This question isn't related to breeze's advice.  It's an additional comment/question.

[RocketGoBoom]

Fees of $2418 for not showing up during a weekend event?

 

I cannot imagine what that could even involve just for a weekend event. $2418 would be about the sorority fees I would expect for an entire semester or year, and that would include the meal plan.

 

But not just a weekend event. Are we talking about hotel reservations and limos for the weekend.

 

is the CA reporting anything on the credit files? I doubt it. If they are only calling, but nothing in writing, then block their number on your cell phone. Ignore them. If the sorority doesn’t have a written contract with you for the weekend events, then it is all BS.

[ICANHASMUNY?]

Contact the Sorority  and see if it's a SCAM 

 

did yo ask the CA if they have your current address?  ( DO THAT) 

 

IF the CA will not supply an address and you haven't received any thing in  Snail mail within a week after first contact/ (phone call speaking to them)

 

Then, it's usually a SCAM 

 

File a complaint with the Ohio AG. 

 

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Business/Collections

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by ICANHASMUNY?

[dsctrying]

Thanks for all your replies.   These were penalties for from $40 to $80 for each occurrence of "unexcused absences" from recruitment information sessions for new recruits which occur about every half hour all day during a 4-day weekend of campus recruitment (plus  late payment penalties). But I had notified them that I had to be out of town that weekend and this didn't seem to become a problem until I notified them that I was no longer going to be a member and wouldn't be paying next semester's (fall 2018) dues. I have heard from a few other members that this is something that has happened to others after they dropped. 

 

I have called the CA back with my Dad on the line and they have given us a name and address. They say a notice has been put in the US mail to me. May I ask for any suggestions of letters or approaches to take this to the next step? It appears to be my word against the President whom I phoned as required to notify them of my absence in advance of the events. Thanks for any help.

[ICANHASMUNY?]

it was a Recruitment session,  did you actually sign anything ?  

 

When the CA letter comes, post it  ( redact personal information ) 

 

who did you dispute this in writing with ; the Sorority ?  

 

ohio Collection laws covers  creditors 

 

 

[centex]

What is IN WRITING in terms of commitments/obligations and fees for any absence?  What written notice was given of any amount being due prior to the alleged phone call? 

 

There are too many pieces of the puzzle that simply are not being offered up here despite the efforts to get the information necessary to guide...

[RocketGoBoom]

If it is your word against hers about the notification, then I would consider writing your version of what happened, including notification and that the President accepted your notification. Then swear in writing that your version is the true event of what happened, then get it notarized at your local bank.

 

That is now the documented and written version of the events that happened.

 

Send a copy to the collection agency and declare their fake "debt" null and void. Tell the CA that if they report anything on your credit files they will be sued for violation of the FDCPA and FCRA, libel and defamation of character and everything under the kitchen sink.

 

I would only bother to do that if there is an actual contract with your signature on it that they are using to justify this so-called debt. If there is no contract at all with these details or requirements, then I would tell them all to FOAD.

Edited August 17, 2018 by RocketGoBoom

[dsctrying]

Thanks for the replies and your patience as I'm a newbie.

 

Yes, I submitted the written form required to be excused and placed it in the box at the house where these are supposed to be placed. I called and confirmed that it was received at the time and was told by a member in charge of that that it was. The "house advisor" is claiming they never found it there. I do have my copy of the form with date etc.

 

I signed an agreement when I joined in 2016 and nothing since. The fees were not listed by amount in the agreement, but said I'd be responsible for  fees listed on the website. I never received a copy the agreement I signed. I've been told if I want to see a copy to go the website. The one that's there is not the same as the one I signed. 

 

A lawyer friend told me to email and ask to receive a copy of the agreement I signed to verify what I promised to pay. Here's the reply I received with no mention of the signed copy I requested.

 

 

"Thanks for asking questions about the remaining balance on your account.

 

When you enroll in [omitted name], you enter a legally binding contract with the chapter to pay all finances. Chapter documents, such as our By-Laws and Financial Obligation statement, are reviewed annually, approved by the chapter, and outline payment procedures. According to the Chapter Bylaws (which were located on GIN for the 2017-2018 school year), here are a few points which outline the requirement to pay fines:

 

Article 6, C.3:

A.     Unexcused Absences

1. There shall be a fine for an unexcused absence from the following Fraternity events:

a.     Each event during formal recruitment

b.     Each day of Recruitment Workshops 

c.     Each day of Recruitment Training School

d.     Each day of Polish Week

e.     Pledge Service(s)

f.      Initiation Service(s)

g.     Feast of Roses

h.     International Reunion Day

i.       Officer Training

j.       Executive Council Workshop 

2. There shall be a fine for an unexcused absence from required chapter events:

a.     Each informal recruitment activity which has been voted to be a required chapter event. 

b.     Each Major Philanthropy Event

c.     All other required chapter functions/events voted on by the chapter.

Article 6, C.2

"All fines should be paid within one week after notification."

 

Article 3, 8, c&d 

a.     The chapter may levy fines against members or new members.  Fines will be placed on the    member’s or new member’s OmegaFi account and will be billed according to the OmegaFi   terms.      

b.     Specific amounts of fines will be designated on the Financial Obligation Statements given to members and new members annually.    

 

I also went ahead and attached a copy of the Financial Obligation statement from the 2017-2018 school year. That will give you the exact break down of the amount you were fined for each event you missed. As a reminder, recruitment is a fine per round. (so $40 multiplied by X amount of rounds). As Claire previously stated, those fines were assessed because you did not submit an Excuse Note and did not attend any formal recruitment events. 

 

Lastly, you have accrued $50+ in late fees because you have not paid you account. According to Article 6, C.2, "all fines should be paid within one week after notification," hence why the fees were assessed and why they continue to be assessed.

 

At this point, I recommend you set up a payment plan with Kaylee/Claire on the Finance Team so you can start working towards paying off you account. If you choose not to pay this amount, your account will be sent to collections which will greatly impact your credit for buying a car, house, etc. This is not something the chapter likes doing, so we like to work with all members and past members on a payment plan!"

 

I have had to cancel attendance at other event over the last two years and never had an issue before. Other members who've dropped have said the same thing happened to them after they dropped.

 

One of those girls mentioned getting a lawyer to write a letter to the sorority and the matter was immediately dropped. I am trying not to incur that expense if possible.

 

The CA says they sent a letter last week, but I still have not seen it. Again I was finally able to get their address and the file number.

 

Hoping this gives better detail of what I have so far. And thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer.

 

 

 

 

 

[RocketGoBoom]

oh god, I would have so much fun with this if I were on the receiving end of their threats. This is just way too easy.

 

1) "The fees were not listed by amount in the agreement, but said I'd be responsible for  fees listed on the website."

 

That is total BS. That type of contract statement is SO crazy as to be unenforceable. They could quite literally put ANYTHING on their website and then claim you owe it. Obviously it wouldn't stand up to a real legal challenge. Claiming you owe $2418 in fines for missing a weekend of activities is just insane.

 

I would respond to the pipsqueak who wrote to you with something like this....

 

Dear silly girl (or whatever name is appropriate),

 

If anything at all appears on my credit file related to this, I will file a lawsuit against the sorority and all of the officers of the sorority for violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, Defamation of Character, Libel. I will seek damages of $100,000 in court plus attorney fees.

 

Once I obtain a judgment against you, I will submit that judgment to a collection agency and I will make sure it is added to each of your individual credit files, which will definitely affect YOUR ability to obtain future loans for autos or home mortgages. 

 

Please also be aware that the judgment will accrue interest at the rate of 12% annually and will be a valid judgment for 20 years unless paid in full.

 

Please be aware that you have the right to pay an attorney $300 per hour to deal with this matter.

 

Sincerely,

Your name

 

CC a copy to the collection agency, the sorority officers, the national sorority President, the house advisor and the university dean that supervises all of the greek organizations.

 

Also CC a copy to the campus newspaper and let them know that the sorority is engaged in ridiculous extortion tactics on their members. The liberals at the campus newspapers love to dump on frats and sororities. They would likely enjoy writing an article exposing your former sorority for these financial extortion tactics. 

 

If the article gets written, it will trash their future recruitment numbers.

 

Have fun with this. It sounds like it could be hilarious.

 

Show your father my response. He can likely help you thru all of this. I am a father also of a teenage daughter.

Edited August 17, 2018 by RocketGoBoom

[ICANHASMUNY?]

Send her back a copy of the obituary and death notice for the funeral you attended 

[RocketGoBoom]

1 hour ago, ICANHASMUNY? said:

Send her back a copy of the obituary and death notice for the funeral you attended 

Yes, good idea. If you decide to go to the campus newspaper, include that info. They will love adding the sympathetic side to your story.

 

They can write the story from the standpoint of the heartless sorority girls that dumped on you and tried to trash your credit file after you missed their silly weekend while you were at a funeral.

[ICANHASMUNY?]

7 hours ago, RocketGoBoom said:

Yes, good idea. If you decide to go to the campus newspaper, include that info. They will love adding the sympathetic side to your story.

 

They can write the story from the standpoint of the heartless sorority girls that dumped on you and tried to trash your credit file after you missed their silly weekend while you were at a funeral.

👍👍

[ICANHASMUNY?]

14 hours ago, dsctrying said:

have had to cancel attendance at other event over the last two years and never had an issue before. Other members who've dropped have said the same thing happened to them after they dropped.

OHIO 1345.02 Unfair or deceptive acts or practices.

 

Sounds like a class action to me ; 

[dsctrying]

Thanks so much for your replies and support and encouragement! I have taken them and looked at many sample letters and some my Dad had and come up with this letter to the CA. May I trouble anyone with more experience to take a look and make suggestions and or give a reaction? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

Me

My Adress etc

Registered US Mail #

 

Silly CA

Address

File #

Etc.

 

 

 

To Whom It May Concern:

 

This letter is being sent to you in response to your recent attempts to collect this fraudulent debt. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your claim is disputed.

 

Under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), I have the right to request validation of the debt you say I owe you and that there is some contractual obligation which is binding on me to pay this debt.

 

Please attach copies of:

 

1- Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt

2- A valid and current agreement that bears the signature of the alleged debtor wherein he or she agreed to pay the creditor and bearing the amounts that he/she promised to pay.

 

Please also be advised that this letter is not only a formal dispute, but a request that you cease and desist any and all collection activities, including reporting of; or verifying of this account on my credit reports.

 

Your receipt of this letter will be considered as having granted consent to the taping of any and all telephone calls to me at my home or business by you or your agents or assigns

 

I require compliance with the terms and conditions of this letter within 30 days. or a complete withdrawal, in writing, of any claim.

 

In the event of noncompliance, I reserve the right to file charges and/or complaints with appropriate County, State & Federal authorities, the BBB and State Bar associations for violations of the FDCPA, FCRA, and Federal and State statutes on fraudulent extortion and illegal collection activities on any account that may be time-barred as well as in violation of Ohio State Law.

 

I also hereby reserve my right to take private civil action against you to recover damages.

 

Sincerely,

 

Me

[RocketGoBoom]

That letter is fine for a starting point. Just be prepared for more. They might fold and return the account to the sorority. They might just provide the bare minimum, which is a statement identifying the alleged creditor (the sorority) and the amount they claim is due. They are not legally required to provide anything else.

 

I would also include a line like this in bold red:

 

Please be aware, you have the right to pay an attorney $300 per hour to deal with this matter once litigation begins.

 

It is just a subtle reminder that this could get very expensive for them and cost way more than they are ever going to earn trying to collect for their client. Their deal with the sorority likely pays them 30% to 50% of whatever they recover from you.

 

If it is a local collection agency, it likely has a local owner. You can probably discover the owners name and home address on the Secretary of State website. Then CC a copy of your letter to that owner at his/her home address. That typically gets their attention that you have done your homework and it tells them you will be able to easily get that person served a lawsuit.

 

[ICANHASMUNY?]

4 hours ago, dsctrying said:

Thanks so much for your replies and support and encouragement! I have taken them and looked at many sample letters and some my Dad had and come up with this letter to the CA. May I trouble anyone with more experience to take a look and make suggestions and or give a reaction? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

Me

My Adress etc

Registered US Mail #

 

Silly CA

Address

File #

Etc.

 

 

 

To Whom It May Concern:

 

This letter is being sent to you in response to your recent attempts to collect this fraudulent debt. This is not a refusal to pay, but a notice that your client's claim is disputed.

 

Under the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA), I have the right to request validation of the debt you say I owe you and that there is some contractual obligation which is binding on me to pay this debt.

 

Please attach copies of:

 

1- Agreement with your client that grants you the authority to collect on this alleged debt

 

2- A valid and current agreement that bears MY signature  wherein I  agreed to pay the creditor and bearing the amounts Claimed 

 

Please also be advised that this letter is not only a formal dispute, but a request that you must cease and desist any and all collection activities, including reporting of; or verifying of this account on my credit reports until this debt is proven legally enforceable,  

 

Your receipt of this letter will be considered as having granted consent to the taping of any and all telephone calls to me at my home or business by you or your agents or assigns   ( leave out nutcase stuff,  not legally enforceable )  

 

Please inform your client that I require compliance with the terms and conditions of this letter within 30 days. or a complete withdrawal, in writing, of any claim.

 

In the event of noncompliance, I reserve the right to file charges and/or complaints with appropriate County, State & Federal authorities, the BBB and State Bar associations for violations of the FDCPA, FCRA, and Federal and State statutes on fraudulent extortion and illegal collection activities on any account that may be time-barred as well as  violations by your client  of the Ohio Consumers Sales Act Ohio Rev. Code § 1345.01 et seq.,  and your firm for refusing to supply name and address during the first phone call to me - it was only after My Father  & I called back that your CSR provided an address,  and I have yet to receive the legally required FDCPA notice letter. 

 

I also hereby reserve my right to take private civil action against you to recover damages.

 

Sincerely,

 

Me

this isn't 'time barred if there is a formal legal agreement signed. -  just leave out verbiage that doesn't apply 

 

Don't send a copy and paste form letter -  

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by ICANHASMUNY?

[cashnocredit]

I'd, insist on and wait for a letter from the CA.  I'm not sure CAs would normally even buy debt like this or contract to collect on it. If they are covered under the FDCPA they are obligated to send that initial contact letter. "Attempt to collect a debt, blah, blah."

 

OTOH, it could be a sham with some sorority peeps trying their hand at collecting. A letter without the required disclaimers means there is no chance in hell of them reporting to CRAs because it's just, in essence, a scam and their threats are meaningless.

 

Also, these days non-credit (like library late fees, traffic tickets) and similar collections are mostly not even allowed by CRAs.

 

Don't pay attention to it until you get the initial contact letter from the "CA" if ever.

[dsctrying]

Thanks again for these really helpful replies! 

[ICANHASMUNY?]

BTW,  what was the CA's name that they provided  ?  

 

did you google it to see if was actually a legit Co ?  

[legaleagle2012]

That letter is crap, like most of the cut and paste form letters. All that will do is tip them off that you don't have a clue about what you're doing. This is all you need:

 

Pursuant to  the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA) ,15 USC 1692,  I  request validation of the debt you say I owe you.

[ICANHASMUNY?]

lets try and be a little more tactful ?  

 

it's her first shot at this , and  could be a future long term member once she's working 

 

Hmmm ?  

[dsctrying]

Just following up and looks like the CA and sorority have dropped the matter after the letter I sent with the help of this forum. Thanks again. Credit number is now 725!