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luckydriver

do any of these things affect a house appraisal?

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or are they just considered cosmetic /maintenance on a 1952 home

 

1. most new windows approx 10K 5 to 10 years ago

 

2 new boiler/hotwater heater system plus conversion from oil to gas 9K 9 years ago

 

3. complete perimeter house drain system 12K 9 years ago

 

4. new roof 12K 4 years ago

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If you are talking about a traditional appraisal done by a licensed appraiser and completed on a standard industry form like a 1004, your appraiser will perform a paired sale analysis when completing the appraisal form.

 

This involves selecting three or more recent sales of properties that are similar to yours ("comparables," or "comps"), and then adjusting for the differences between your property and each of the comps.

 

Most of the items you listed would be accounted for in the "Condition" section, where the value of your property could be superior to a comp (and therefore worth more) in this category of comparison. This would add to the value of your home vs. a comp with inferior condition.  

 

Other adjustments are made for square footage, number and type of rooms, and other differences between your home and the comps that were selected by the appraiser.

 

The amount of value the appraiser places on the differences between your home and a comp's in a given category is based on an opinion of how much value the market would put on the difference.  It's completely unrelated from the cost of improvements.

 

If a higher appraisal valuation is the desired outcome, you should call the appraiser's attention to these items at the inspection.  Leave a note or send an email in advance if you won't be at the inspection.  Whether or not these things will be noticed varies by how thorough the appraiser is.

 

Here is a sample of a common appraisal report used for first mortgages.  The paired sale analysis is on page 2.

 

http://ofallonappraiser.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/1004-UAD-FHA-Sample-Report.pdf

Edited by cv91915

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i directly told him about new windows and heating system when he was there but called later and told the agency about new roof. just when the appraisal said no upgrades in past 15 years i was slightly taken aback. i thought all those would count for upgrades..well maybe roof is regular maintenance but i'm sure it would help sell the house as expensive as it was

 

i was marked as a C3 which in some respects is good. he also made note why he choose comps  more than 1 mile away. i think its because my house is bigger than all the rest around here but i had many just blocks for me sold in the past 6 months. he had to go out further and older than 6 months. 

 

there are other things that i personally would have taken points off for and those werent mentioned so i have to look at that as being a positive. 

 

theres a house 1 block away that just sold but its a split and i have cape cod. i guess you cannot compare those. we have virtually same sq feet and he didnt use it. it def had a more modern bath as mine is from the 50s but my half bath i just installed new. this house sold for 18K more than my appraisal. i guess as least i have a good solid value for when i do decide to sell. that is assuming all appraisers do things they same way . also the cost approach was 26 K more than the sales comparison and that would have been nice :)

 

edit: i have to take back one comment. he compared my house to one with 1500 sq ft when mine was 2600 but i guess the adjustment is supposed to take care of that. when he arrived he kept saying this is a big house then inside i asked one question and he said square footage is king. 

 

i guess another reason i was disappointed is that i refied in 08 and for the house to only gain 19K in 10 years  but maybe thats because of inflated 08 amount?

 

super edit: when i had state farm do a quote a few years ago , they made me insure it for almost 2x the value  i have it now, saying all the hardwood floors and plaster would cost a fortune to replace. sure would be nice if it appraised at that ;)

Edited by luckydriver

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additional items that may or may not matter:

 

he says i have no attic. he literally looked in the attic. its 1000 sq ft at least. 

 

minor thing but the box for gas isnt checked. yet he knows i have new gas boiler

 

he said i have no AC. thats wrong. there are many thru the wall units and you can see them in the pics in the appraisal even.

 

he said i have slab concrete. this is wrong. i have crawlspace. 

the box for windows and roof are marked AVG when they are new

 

now maybe these things dont matter but when you get this much objectively wrong, i start to wonder about the rest of the appraisal. 

 

Edited by luckydriver

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3 minutes ago, luckydriver said:

additional items that may or may not matter:

 

he says i have no attic. he literally looked in the attic. its 1000 sq ft at least. 

 

minor thing but the box for gas isnt checked. yet he knows i have new gas boiler

 

he said i have no AC. thats wrong. there are many thru the wall units

 

he said i have slab concrete. this is wrong. i have crawlspace. 

 

now many these things dont matter but when you get this much objectively wrong, i start to wonder about the rest of the appraisal. 

If the appraisal is done for a mortgage, the appraiser's customer is the mortgage company, not you.  

 

Often many property characteristics on an appraisal form are from public records (vs. personal observation by the appraiser), and often there are comments to that effect on the form itself.

 

If you aren't on the edge of qualifying for a mortgage program based on LTV, none of this matters to you.  And, FWIW, very few homeowners think their home is worth less than their appraiser does. 

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i just wanted things objectively listed on the form with hopes it increases the value. the layman in me says a new 4400 sq foot roof and new heating system and new windows add value to a home and the more value the more i get out of my heloc. if those things dont mean anything to a homes value then i guess when people go and buy homes and say 'all that stuff is old and needs replaced soon' they are just blowing hot air and it means nothing? (which is very possible). but then why have inspections that note those things if they mean nothing. see where i'm going?

 

i doubt the 1000 sq ft attic adds value (heck i could easily make it conditioned and i guess would add tons of value now that i think about it. nor the crawlspace probably worth anything. .but shouldnt the report be objectively correct at least in the aspects of the house that he literally was IN and saw things? 

 

id also think no cooling is incorrect when i have through the wall permanently mounted AC units everywhere. i just arrived home before he got there and didnt have time to cool down the house so maybe he wasnt happy standing there in hat/suspenders and dress pants when it was so hot out and my house wasnt cool and he dinged me for it

 

plus as you stated, i did bring stuff to his attention so there was no guesswork, but he literally did not put it on the form. i believe this by definition is inaccurate. maybe he thinks adds no value but saying no crawlspace, no attic and no heating upgrade nor any cooling is just unacceptable and since i paid 400 for this appraisal i believe it should be correct. plus technically isnt an inaccurate appraisal misleading, which is definitely not allowed.

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on the comp sheet every other home has C/A marked next to cooling and -3000. what does this mean?

 

also curious what energy efficient items are. i'm guessing solar because i'd say timer thermostat, new heating and windows help with efficiency and all that insulation i added in the attic instantly made the house warmer when i did it one fall. i forgot about that up until this moment. sigh. blowing insulation was sooooo fun too!! i could never be an appraiser as i'm too focused on details. it would take me more than 30 min to appraise a house like he did. id be there for hours :)

Edited by luckydriver

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17 minutes ago, luckydriver said:

i just wanted things objectively listed on the form with hopes it increases the value. the layman in me says a new 4400 sq foot roof and new heating system and new windows add value to a home and the more value the more i get out of my heloc. if those things dont mean anything to a homes value then i guess when people go and buy homes and say 'all that stuff is old and needs replaced soon' they are just blowing hot air and it means nothing? (which is very possible). but then why have inspections that note those things if they mean nothing. see where i'm going?

 

i doubt the 1000 sq ft attic adds value (heck i could easily make it conditioned and i guess would add tons of value now that i think about it. nor the crawlspace probably worth anything. .but shouldnt the report be objectively correct at least in the aspects of the house that he literally was IN and saw things? 

 

id also think no cooling is incorrect when i have through the wall permanently mounted AC units everywhere. i just arrived home before he got there and didnt have time to cool down the house so maybe he wasnt happy standing there in hat/suspenders and dress pants when it was so hot out and my house wasnt cool and he dinged me for it

 

plus as you stated, i did bring stuff to his attention so there was no guesswork, but he literally did not put it on the form. i believe this by definition is inaccurate. maybe he thinks adds no value but saying no crawlspace, no attic and no heating upgrade nor any cooling is just unacceptable and since i paid 400 for this appraisal i believe it should be correct. plus technically isnt an inaccurate appraisal misleading, which is definitely not allowed.

 

Exactly how have you been harmed?  How do the facts that you noted violate USPAP (see below)?

 

Also, at the risk of sounding like there's an echo in here, you aren't the appraiser's customer, your mortgage company is.  

 

You could try:

 

1 - complain to your mortgage company;

 

2 - ask the appraiser to reconsider some of the details you note;

 

3 - file a complaint with the appraisal licensing board in your state in hopes of having the appraiser's license revoked, thereby depriving him/her of future income;

 

4 - figure out which other governing authorities besides your state appraisal licensing board hold your appraiser accountable to Professional Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP).  I believe the prevailing Federal law is the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act of 1989 (FIRREA). 

 

It's your move.

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does anyone know if those things i've mentioned affect the value of the house? thats the question that hasnt been answered yet. if you say nothing i said on this thread will ever increase the value of the house and no need to ever bring it up with any appraisal nor sale of the house in the future, i will accept that as your answer. and i wouldnt even bother telling a realtor any of this stuff if it doesnt matter in the end as to how much the house is worth but i'm trying to get to that point of what matters and doesnt matter yet for some reason that is difficult here. 

 

ive been harmed if i am shooting for X dollars and i dont get X dollars and i have to lower my loan amount. 

 

the CU already sent email to the appraiser asking if the things affect the appraisal but i was hoping to find some unbiased answers on this forum as to whether a new roof. windows, heating system etc affect the value of the house or if its wrong that he missed the objective things my house has. i thought that would be an easy answer  but i see it is more complicated apparently since no one here knows the answer. 

 

then again this is a mortgage forum and not an appraisal forum so i think i may have made a mistake in where i asked the question. 

 

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16 minutes ago, tiggerlgh said:

C/A is central air he took off $3k because you don’t have it. Plus xxx is where he gave you credit for things.

thanks for the direct answer

 

is there ever an allocation for thru the wall units . i do have 5 of them. i only ask because the box that said 'individual' cooling on the page wasnt checked. and he typed in NONE which is why i feel short changed. even if it's just by 1000 or so. to me the typing of NONE was intentional. not an omission. and for ever 1000 of value i get 900 more credit so its important to me :)

 

 

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It may be baked in. It could be he gave you some credit for the wall units and therefore only took off 3k for no central air vs $5k. This is just an example

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1 hour ago, luckydriver said:

does anyone know if those things i've mentioned affect the value of the house? thats the question that hasnt been answered yet. if you say nothing i said on this thread will ever increase the value of the house and no need to ever bring it up with any appraisal nor sale of the house in the future, i will accept that as your answer. and i wouldnt even bother telling a realtor any of this stuff if it doesnt matter in the end as to how much the house is worth but i'm trying to get to that point of what matters and doesnt matter yet for some reason that is difficult here. 

 

ive been harmed if i am shooting for X dollars and i dont get X dollars and i have to lower my loan amount. 

 

the CU already sent email to the appraiser asking if the things affect the appraisal but i was hoping to find some unbiased answers on this forum as to whether a new roof. windows, heating system etc affect the value of the house or if its wrong that he missed the objective things my house has. i thought that would be an easy answer  but i see it is more complicated apparently since no one here knows the answer. 

 

then again this is a mortgage forum and not an appraisal forum so i think i may have made a mistake in where i asked the question. 

 

Look at thread title.  You asked about how these things impacted the appraisal.

 

If you want to know if buyers are willing to pay more for any of these items you should talk to an experienced real estate agent in your area.

 

The purpose of the appraisal while you are getting a mortgage is to assure the mortgage company that their collateral is sufficient for the loan amount.  It's not to hit some value that you are "shooting for."
 
You did the right thing by running your valuation questions back through your mortgage originator (which was my first suggestion for recourse above) since they hired the appraiser.  The appraiser is looking out for the mortgage company's interests, not yours.

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would an appraisal for my own interest have a different value or be done under a different method. for example. maybe for purposes of divorce. or does purpose not matter and the house is worth what its worth ....period. 

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20 minutes ago, luckydriver said:

would an appraisal for my own interest have a different value or be done under a different method. for example. maybe for purposes of divorce. or does purpose not matter and the house is worth what its worth ....period. 

Outside of collateral assessment for a mortgage (which is regulated), what constitutes the value of a property is whatever two sides can agree on.  

 

On a cash sale, opposing sides could consult two real estate agents and then agree to average the two opinions.  Or they could agree to hire one appraiser and accept in advance whatever the appraiser comes up with. 

 

I know that's not as specific of an answer as you are looking for.  But houses aren't fungible.  Even in a mass-produced neighborhood built very recently where there are only three or four floor plans, within the inventory of "identical" units there are variables like lot size, location, interior finishes, views, etc.

 

This isn't dissimilar to trying to decide how much a used car is worth.  You can look at NADA and Kelley Blue Book (gasp), but someone will come along who loves the fact that your car is black and will be willing to your asking price.  The next person wouldn't own a black car unless they could pick it up at a steep discount.  The latter would be me.  I hate having a dirty car as much as I hate going to the car wash.

 

If you want to find out what the average buyer in your market is willing to pay extra for, and/or want an opinion of the value of your home if you were to put it up for sale, talk to a couple of real estate agents with a lot of experience in your local area.

 

Also, let's be realistic.  If you wanted to sell your home in a year, no one is going to be interested in what an appraiser thought in 2018 anyway.

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On 8/1/2018 at 6:16 PM, luckydriver said:

or are they just considered cosmetic /maintenance on a 1952 home

 

1. most new windows approx 10K 5 to 10 years ago

 

2 new boiler/hotwater heater system plus conversion from oil to gas 9K 9 years ago

 

3. complete perimeter house drain system 12K 9 years ago

 

4. new roof 12K 4 years ago

My opinions, and not based on any manner of formal training in the appraisal field.  And, since we don't do oil heating here (for the most part), I have no idea what impact such a conversion might have on pricing when looking at homes.

-

The windows have aged significantly as has the roof...thus there would not be a substantial bump.  It is something that a prospective buyer knows that they may not have to deal with again for a while, but there is new and there is NEW. 

-

Did the perimeter drain fix an issue that was causing water to enter the house (or basement)?  If not, then it is a cosmetic upgrade that many buyers may not even care about and would not impact valuations.  If it DID remediate a problem with water egress, then you should be in a position of demonstrating the effect on things like insurance and the lack of recurring damage. 

-

Was the boiler/hot water system done at the same time as the conversion from oil?  If so, then again, age is not your friend as relates to seeing any manner of measurable impact on an appraisal. 

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CONCLUSION:

 

i have not done an in depth comparison of the new appraisal i just received but have noted a few changes
 
it now says new windows, new heating system and all the factually incorrect things have been changed /or noted where they should be (attic/crawl/ac unit)
 
he upped it 4000 so that gets me 3600 more in the heloc. definitely worth the wait and the time to write it up. my homeowners insurance info didnt get finished till yesterday so technically i only waited one day for this. 
Edited by luckydriver

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i read the entire report and got additional info: apparently after 24 years here i found out i do NOT have an attic. this is crushing!!! lol. i always thought i had a huge attic but nope. sigh. learn something new every day. its just unfinished space. what is the difference? 

 

there's also an apology and a note about rushing and missing a few things, but since we cannot post pics here i cannot post it. but was nice to get a few more bucks. 

 

 

Edited by luckydriver

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I think there IS a big different between a finished and unfinished attic when it comes to value.

 

You could have several appraisals done - and each appraiser will come up with a different amount.

 

 

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