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luckydriver

how do you get rid of a lien from a defunct company?

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going thru heloc process now. they said i have a lien from 1997 home equity loan. i could dig through my boxes but i'm not sure i have a paid off lien in there. thing is. i got a new mortgage in 2008 and 2010. you can see that on the county site and of course i have the HUD etc from those loans handy and showed them that. the heloc accepted all that data as proof of lien paid off but how do i get it off the court records? the company was sold in 1998 and i'm sure following that maze of paperwork would be virtually impossible.

 

my guess is i could go to the 08 and 10 lenders and ask how they resolved the outstanding lien but is that a good idea? when i go to sell the house i now worry this may be an issue. 

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A 1997 lien is reporting? I thought that was way out of reporting time frame especially if paid.

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what do you mean reporting time frame? wouldnt a lien on home show up 'forever' until it shows as paid? or do you mean some kind of internal standard?

 

this was her email to me:

 

 Below is the old mortgage information from the title search. We are looking for a satisfaction of mortgage letter from Eastern Mortgage Services stating the loan has been paid

 

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and when i talked to her she said it came up in a title search and i looked and the mortgage is still on the county site which i guess it stays there forever? since i have no clue how companies get info about liens i just assume they references the county site and since theres no satisfaction, they count it as open?

 

you CAN see the satisfaction of the original 1994 1st mortgage that was paid in 2008 and then of course that 2008 1st mortgage was paid in 2010 with that refi. 

 

also in the 2008 documents on the county site it specifically does mention the 1997 2nd mortgage loan. maybe thats what cured the issue for them. unsure. i dont know if logic matters when i go to sell the home in the future though. someone could be stubborn and even with all this data want a letter from the defunct company. 

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Liens usually report for 10 years unless the company reups it. Common sense you could not have sold or refied with an open lien

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OP isn't talking about the lien showing up on a credit report.

 

When you originate a HELOC the lender records a lien against the property at the courthouse.  

 

That is going to show up in a title search as an open lien unless the lender also recorded a satisfaction when the HELOC was closed.  

 

As long as there is no recorded satisfaction, it's an open lien at the courthouse...  even if the HELOC never had a balance, and even if it had balances that were paid to zero and the balance remained zero through this moment.

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Did you ever pay off the HELOC? Either through payments or refi? If not it’s probably legit. Even if the debt is discharged in Bk the lien usually remains (there are exceptions to that but would be clear in the BK). I would reach out to the current lien holder to see what information they have.

 

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46 minutes ago, tiggerlgh said:

Did you ever pay off the HELOC? Either through payments or refi? If not it’s probably legit. Even if the debt is discharged in Bk the lien usually remains (there are exceptions to that but would be clear in the BK). I would reach out to the current lien holder to see what information they have.

 

 

ive been thru 2 BK which the house was included both times plus if i was behind 20 years in payments wouldnt someone have come after me by now :). i hope the court finds that logical and gives me my satisfaction. 

 

it was def paid off in 2008 with that refi and you can see the reference to the 1997 deed in the 2008 documents i found online. and then i got another refi in 2010 so again it had to be verified as paid off or no way would i get the mortgage. i doubt 2 lenders missed this. but the county wont accept logic to kill the lien..sigh.  

 

i was gonna contact my current holder to find out how they 'cured' the lien because you know they did the same search as everyone else. other than that a quiet title has been suggested but that sounds like it costs lotta money with atty etc. 

 

dept of banking was able to track the old mortgage company to national city then to B of A but i am sure B of A wouldnt be able to track something like that down. and id have no idea where to start with them. 

 

also for the record the 1997 was a loan not heloc. im sure liens are the same though

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Sorry for erroneously interjecting "HELOC" into the conversation.  The lien process is the same for a home equity loan, as you noted.

 

Definitely contact Bank of America, which is decidedly NOT a defunct company.  

 

The original mortgage on our home in California from 2004 was with Countrywide, which was later absorbed by Bank of America.  I refinanced the loan to an unrelated company BEFORE the merger.

 

When I call Bank of America today they thank me for being a customer since 2004, even though I had zero relationship with them prior to ~2013.

 

This mortgage is still reporting on my credit as a Ditech trade line.  Ditech never owned or serviced the loan while it was open.

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does title insurance have anything to do with this. in other words, did i have to have a clean lien free title in order to get 2 new 1st mortgages in 08 and 10?

 

 

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Bankruptcies do not remove liens (except in limited lien stripping aspects).   The fact "nobody came after you" is not an indication of things being hunky dory, but the fact the lenders are COMPLYING WITH THE LAW.   If your debt was discharged, they can't come after you.   If they're not in first position on the property, attempting to foreclose on the lien may be ill-advised as well.

Edited by FlyingRon

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9 hours ago, FlyingRon said:

Bankruptcies do not remove liens (except in limited lien stripping aspects).   The fact "nobody came after you" is not an indication of things being hunky dory, but the fact the lenders are COMPLYING WITH THE LAW.   If your debt was discharged, they can't come after you.   If they're not in first position on the property, attempting to foreclose on the lien may be ill-advised as well.

 

the debt was paid by the refi and i have the HUD sheet to prove it. and it would be a sad day in title search history if 2 new mortgages were gotten while old liens were on the house. id think those title companies would be in big trouble

 

i found the bank with the more recent possession of the lien and things hopefully will be wrapped up soon. 

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On 7/27/2018 at 7:39 AM, MarvBear said:

A 1997 lien is reporting? I thought that was way out of reporting time frame especially if paid.
 

I bet they mean it showed up in the title search, NOT on a credit report.  Public records live into perpetuity even after they have been paid.  They just have the release that is ALSO recorded...if there really WAS a release.

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i emailed the title search to the old mortgage company. for some reason they said thats important to know . no clue why the public court house record wasnt enough. also emailed them the hud form which specifically shows paying off the 'currently named' institution

 

also they admitted they have the payoff notice IN my folder there are the bank. the one from the title company. yet they still delay by saying something about chain of title etc.

 

however they pretty much said the executives have to get involved to do this letter now. which is fine with me. long as it gets done. 

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other than BBB and office of comptroller (filed those this morning) what other agencies should i be writing to about this issue? its insane that no one there will sign a satisfaction letter when they admit in writing the mortgage is paid off and have the proof in their files.  they have become non responsive to me and they need some kind of push. 

 

do the internal  depts of banks actually do anything if you complain or are they just there to make you feel better? (ie will letter to the president get me anywhere?)

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With whom (not by name, but by function) are you communicating at Bank of America, and how?

 

I would target the executive in charge of compliance at their corporate offices and send a concise letter via FedEx/UPS next-day service and require a signature upon delivery.  Attach a copy of whatever they've put in writing about the loan being paid off.

 

CFPB would be another avenue, but I'd work through the bank first.

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On 8/22/2018 at 5:12 AM, luckydriver said:

 

the debt was paid by the refi and i have the HUD sheet to prove it. and it would be a sad day in title search history if 2 new mortgages were gotten while old liens were on the house. id think those title companies would be in big trouble

 

i found the bank with the more recent possession of the lien and things hopefully will be wrapped up soon. 

Title insurance companies don't "get in trouble" for missing a lien, if that's even what happened.  They pay claims to the named insured when there is a covered loss.

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