Accessing as much cash as possible for a year

[Big Bear]

 

Example:

 

You take out $120K on $300K in CL (40%). That is way too high a balance, and probably much more in CL than you could get.

 

Creditor A doesn't like the sudden $20K/$30K balance, freaks out and closes your account.

 

Since balances on closed cards count but CL do not, you are now at $120K/$270K.

 

Creditors B and C follow suit and you lose another $60K in CL.

 

You're now at $120K/$210K.

 

By now, all your creditors are paying attention and are either balance chasing you or closing your accounts.

 

This is a realistic example.

Gotcha. I wanna try to figure out just how realistic this can be, so I can game-plan accordingly:

 

Which banks will get closed and shut me down? The banks that I'm using to BT shouldn't be concerned if I BT large balances over, as this is their intent with the offer. The banks that I'll have to be doing spending with (via Paypal) for the 0%... I guess if I move to quickly with those, they could freak out. If I would do that spending slowly, that shouldn't be an issue right?

Those banks will also see the balances on the 'other guys' accounts. The PP intent accounts may freak out when you start pushing 'spend' in that manner and they review your balances with the BT accounts.

 

Also, without doing a random SP, the other banks wouldn't know what my utilization is on my other cards. So if they aren't considered with whatever balances I have on their cards, they won't feel a need to look into the rest of my credit file. Correct?

They are already concerned, about all of us and SP monthly (and sometimes more often).

 

One way to avoid this scenario would be to apply for all the credit, and take a few months to build up the cash. Not as ideal, but this may be a good way to play it safe.

Can you afford the repayment plan to do so? Essentially paying interest while accumulated loaned funds?

 

[NothingToHide]

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

mec, I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. He is not asking for investment strategy advice or repayment advice. His only concern is getting the cash and will deal with whatever comes as it comes. So either give him advice on how to access credit lines for the cash or stay out of it. All these posts on here telling the guy he is making a bad decision or looking for him to give you ammo so you can shoot down his idea is ridiculous. Either help him or do not post. Thank you.

I'm looking for ammo. Ammo I'd imagine nothing to hide wants us to have.

 

As HDPorter pointed out, the question as posed is somewhat rhetorical and one reason for that could be that the OP isn't sure where the landmines may be in this proposition. The OP brought up 0℅ borrowing so this seems like a potential issue depending on how familiar nothing to hide is with carrying debt.

 

Another group of concern would be the various transactions that will have to take place to assemble the capital. Perhaps they should be explored individually. PayPal, BT checks ... What will happen to the viability of the 'investment' if the Capital comes up 10k or 40k short due to a bank account being frozen, or a processor suspending processes before the capital's critical mass has been achieved?

 

When someone asks a question you sometimes need more information to give them an answer and the reason for that is usually that the process doesn't work as they imagine when they formulate the idea.

 

You're 100% right. These definitely are legitimate concerns. The BT transfers shouldn't be an issue as they'll be deposited with a bank that I've got a great relationship with. The paypal part may cause issues and will require slow progress. I'm working on getting friends to use the cards legitimately and hit me back.

[NothingToHide]

 

 

What was the question?

 

Guidance and help require more information.

 

Will manipulating your available credit to take 120,000 dollars out in cash, overseas, panic your creditors and cause your credit to be withdrawn and your scores to plummet?

 

Probably.

Will definitely cause my score to plummet, but don't really mind too much. What do you mean by "withdrawn?" Once the limit is being used, there's not much to do. Even closing the account won't force me to pay them the money back.

 

The help requested was to possibly tweak my app spree, recommend different cards, different order of applications etc.

 

Wasn't expected everyone to just parrot "o my goodness, you're doing something that everybody says not to do, it must end in disaster" without giving much legitimate reason, aside from one or 2 vague concerns.

 

 

Hello.

 

What made me uncomfortable with this post and why I followed it are your words. "Even closing the account won't force me to pay them the money back".

It sounds as though you plan to pull out all of the money. Create invoices and send "payment" via paypal, which is against their rules and really have no intention to pay back the money you take out.

 

As you live in a foreign country, I have lived as an adult in two Western European countries, I am quite certain you have established credit in those countries - I was able to do it in both countries as a US citizen. And, if some debt collector tries to find you it is difficult and you can claim ignorance since everything was done from abroad and via paypal.

 

I am not accusing you of being a thief but that sentence did make me think there may be a different motive than the one you offered - as NO investment is 100% guaranteed ROI and any investor, investment banker, trader and so forth will tell you the same thing.

 

What I meant by forcing them to pay them back means within the 12 months of 0%... the CC's will be paid off by the end of the terms.

[NothingToHide]

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

 

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

[Big Bear]

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

I saw that some people weren't happy with your question, not sure why- it's quite important as I'll need to be paying back at least 2% in minimum payments for the CC.

 

The investment is a RE investment with 8-10% ROI. The cash will be in hand within the 12 months, either in cash or a HELOC that my spouse will take out on the property. I think I may regret saying this as I can imagine telling me how they know that no investment is guaranteed so it's a disaster of an idea... but what can we do.

 

Just to clarify, you're saying you'll have the cash for this re-investment within a year? This sure thing is just going to sit and wait?

 

The problem I foresee from the means of obtaining the funds...and this is purely from a 'please minimize your risk' stance...is that you're then 'gambling' much closer to 'all in' status. Don't do the HELOC.

 

 

Have you done the math to see how far ahead you come if the ROI is at 8% and you factor in the interest on the BTs, PP transfers, etc?

[Big Bear]

 

 

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

mec, I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. He is not asking for investment strategy advice or repayment advice. His only concern is getting the cash and will deal with whatever comes as it comes. So either give him advice on how to access credit lines for the cash or stay out of it. All these posts on here telling the guy he is making a bad decision or looking for him to give you ammo so you can shoot down his idea is ridiculous. Either help him or do not post. Thank you.

I'm looking for ammo. Ammo I'd imagine nothing to hide wants us to have.

 

As HDPorter pointed out, the question as posed is somewhat rhetorical and one reason for that could be that the OP isn't sure where the landmines may be in this proposition. The OP brought up 0℅ borrowing so this seems like a potential issue depending on how familiar nothing to hide is with carrying debt.

 

Another group of concern would be the various transactions that will have to take place to assemble the capital. Perhaps they should be explored individually. PayPal, BT checks ... What will happen to the viability of the 'investment' if the Capital comes up 10k or 40k short due to a bank account being frozen, or a processor suspending processes before the capital's critical mass has been achieved?

 

When someone asks a question you sometimes need more information to give them an answer and the reason for that is usually that the process doesn't work as they imagine when they formulate the idea.

 

You're 100% right. These definitely are legitimate concerns. The BT transfers shouldn't be an issue as they'll be deposited with a bank that I've got a great relationship with. The paypal part may cause issues and will require slow progress. I'm working on getting friends to use the cards legitimately and hit me back.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Big Bear

[mec]

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

I saw that some people weren't happy with your question, not sure why- it's quite important as I'll need to be paying back at least 2% in minimum payments for the CC.

 

The investment is a RE investment with 8-10% ROI. The cash will be in hand within the 12 months, either in cash or a HELOC that my spouse will take out on the property. I think I may regret saying this as I can imagine telling me how they know that no investment is guaranteed so it's a disaster of an idea... but what can we do.

In that case, I would look at different scenarios in which you are able to get various portions of the money out of the credit accounts 80%, 70%, %60%...) and may have to do the balance on a HELOC with it's own repayment schedule to make the deal happen. Measure the monthly repayment numbers against your ability to repay over the course of the year until the expected payout. It would also make sense to determine what the payments would be in month 13 in the event there is an unanticipated issue.

 

That would give you a guideline to help you assess​ the risk at different borrowed amounts and overall.

 

Just a reminder, in 2005, 2006 there were lots of people building and flipping houses that didn't anticipate any risk. There is always risk. For instance, a house without central heat won't be insured by many insurance companies, but they are still flamable.

Edited March 9, 2017 by mec

[STC]

 

 

For all of those who are yelling "don't borrow to invest"- you guys have a fair point- I'm definitely going against that rule. But, I'm confident enough in my investment to take that risk, although I appreciate all the warnings intended for my best interest!

 

To be fair, and honest I recently mortgaged an investment property at 6.75% so I could invest the money. I do not know what your investment is. I do know what my investment is and I know I'll do well. I wont make a million or anything but I will within 3 years payoff the note and pocket a little cash. I hope whatever it is you are doing makes you a small fortune.. as long as you don't start with a large one. Cheers

[mendelssohn]

 

 

For all of those who are yelling "don't borrow to invest"- you guys have a fair point- I'm definitely going against that rule. But, I'm confident enough in my investment to take that risk, although I appreciate all the warnings intended for my best interest!

 

To be fair, and honest I recently mortgaged an investment property at 6.75% so I could invest the money. I do not know what your investment is. I do know what my investment is and I know I'll do well. I wont make a million or anything but I will within 3 years payoff the note and pocket a little cash. I hope whatever it is you are doing makes you a small fortune.. as long as you don't start with a large one. Cheers

 

 

There is a difference between doing what you mention (still risky) and taking out $120K from CCs in a manner that will definitely lead to adverse action.

[STC]

 

 

 

For all of those who are yelling "don't borrow to invest"- you guys have a fair point- I'm definitely going against that rule. But, I'm confident enough in my investment to take that risk, although I appreciate all the warnings intended for my best interest!

 

To be fair, and honest I recently mortgaged an investment property at 6.75% so I could invest the money. I do not know what your investment is. I do know what my investment is and I know I'll do well. I wont make a million or anything but I will within 3 years payoff the note and pocket a little cash. I hope whatever it is you are doing makes you a small fortune.. as long as you don't start with a large one. Cheers

 

 

There is a difference between doing what you mention (still risky) and taking out $120K from CCs in a manner that will definitely lead to adverse action.

 

 

Good point. I would never go to a credit card for what I am doing.

 

At least with a mortgage if things did go south I have a legitimate mortgage payment I will have to make month after month and year after year while I bang my head on the wall wishing I could go back in time and stop myself - but will still maintain good credit

 

Fortunately I have a pretty good idea what I am doing

[wingwalker]

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

I saw that some people weren't happy with your question, not sure why- it's quite important as I'll need to be paying back at least 2% in minimum payments for the CC.

 

The investment is a RE investment with 8-10% ROI. The cash will be in hand within the 12 months, either in cash or a HELOC that my spouse will take out on the property. I think I may regret saying this as I can imagine telling me how they know that no investment is guaranteed so it's a disaster of an idea... but what can we do.

In that case, I would look at different scenarios in which you are able to get various portions of the money out of the credit accounts 80%, 70%, %60%...) and may have to do the balance on a HELOC with it's own repayment schedule to make the deal happen. Measure the monthly repayment numbers against your ability to repay over the course of the year until the expected payout. It would also make sense to determine what the payments would be in month 13 in the event there is an unanticipated issue.

 

That would give you a guideline to help you assess​ the risk at different borrowed amounts and overall.

 

Just a reminder, in 2005, 2006 there were lots of people building and flipping houses that didn't anticipate any risk. There is always risk. For instance, a house without central heat won't be insured by many insurance companies, but they are still flamable.

 

 

Good points, all.

 

My credit flameout when the economy (and my work) all went south included a one-year plan to refinance my house - my first ever, which I loved. I got too-high rates for the first and second to purchase, with the then-sound advice to refinance, since the house had some significant equity going in. My one-year prepayment penalty seemed like a good idea, since I planned to refi for a much-lower interest rate.

 

In month 11, in November 2007, everything seemed fine. My credit was great. In walks the appraiser, loves the house but the comps in the neighborhood were starting to fall noticeably and the guy doing my refi said we couldn't move forward because the equity and value just weren't there. I was stuck with the too-high interest rates, lost work during the crash, and eventually lost the house I had hoped to pass on to my son.

 

I've pretty much come to grips with it, but I'd be lying if I said it still didn't sting.

 

I am not confident that we won't be facing another bubble of some sort within a year.

[LKH]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

mec, I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. He is not asking for investment strategy advice or repayment advice. His only concern is getting the cash and will deal with whatever comes as it comes. So either give him advice on how to access credit lines for the cash or stay out of it. All these posts on here telling the guy he is making a bad decision or looking for him to give you ammo so you can shoot down his idea is ridiculous. Either help him or do not post. Thank you.

 

Who died and left you in charge, that you should instruct our members?

 

I did not instruct, just gave my honest, polite opinion. Way more polite than a lot of people have been on this thread, so no harm, no foul. We are all entitled to our opinions on here, as are you.

 

ummmmmmmmmmm. I don't believe I offered any opinion in this thread.

 

I did not say you gave an opinion, I said you are entitled to give your opinion, just like every other member on this board. And you said, "our members" like I am not one. I am a member also and have given input on many threads here. Have a nice day.

 

Be a little respectful in how you talk to the staff members here. Thank you.

 

I was very respectful.

 

Apparently I did not think so.

[pingpolo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

mec, I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. He is not asking for investment strategy advice or repayment advice. His only concern is getting the cash and will deal with whatever comes as it comes. So either give him advice on how to access credit lines for the cash or stay out of it. All these posts on here telling the guy he is making a bad decision or looking for him to give you ammo so you can shoot down his idea is ridiculous. Either help him or do not post. Thank you.

 

Who died and left you in charge, that you should instruct our members?

 

I did not instruct, just gave my honest, polite opinion. Way more polite than a lot of people have been on this thread, so no harm, no foul. We are all entitled to our opinions on here, as are you.

 

ummmmmmmmmmm. I don't believe I offered any opinion in this thread.

 

I did not say you gave an opinion, I said you are entitled to give your opinion, just like every other member on this board. And you said, "our members" like I am not one. I am a member also and have given input on many threads here. Have a nice day.

 

Be a little respectful in how you talk to the staff members here. Thank you.

 

I was very respectful.

 

Apparently I did not think so.

 

We are all entitled to our "opinions", that is what makes this board and our country great. As the "Site Owner/Admin" you are obviously entitled to use your judgement as you see. It is very difficult to understand tone and intent in a lot of text communication such as this, but I will state that "my" tone and intent is honorable and pure. I hold no grudges, nor do I look for conflict with anyone past or present in my life. PM me if you would like to speak by phone and clear this up. My best wishes to all CB users.

[hegemony]

OP should ask on MFF so we can compare responses.

[LKH]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems like the only thing that is missing is the repayment timeline.

 

How fast will you be able to pay off this 120k ?

 

What will your first payment be (~2% is probably a reasonable guesstimate) ?

 

What is the ROI in the 120k month by month ?

mec, I'm not trying to be rude, just honest. He is not asking for investment strategy advice or repayment advice. His only concern is getting the cash and will deal with whatever comes as it comes. So either give him advice on how to access credit lines for the cash or stay out of it. All these posts on here telling the guy he is making a bad decision or looking for him to give you ammo so you can shoot down his idea is ridiculous. Either help him or do not post. Thank you.

 

Who died and left you in charge, that you should instruct our members?

 

I did not instruct, just gave my honest, polite opinion. Way more polite than a lot of people have been on this thread, so no harm, no foul. We are all entitled to our opinions on here, as are you.

 

ummmmmmmmmmm. I don't believe I offered any opinion in this thread.

 

I did not say you gave an opinion, I said you are entitled to give your opinion, just like every other member on this board. And you said, "our members" like I am not one. I am a member also and have given input on many threads here. Have a nice day.

 

Be a little respectful in how you talk to the staff members here. Thank you.

 

I was very respectful.

 

Apparently I did not think so.

 

We are all entitled to our "opinions", that is what makes this board and our country great. As the "Site Owner/Admin" you are obviously entitled to use your judgement as you see. It is very difficult to understand tone and intent in a lot of text communication such as this, but I will state that "my" tone and intent is honorable and pure. I hold no grudges, nor do I look for conflict with anyone past or present in my life. PM me if you would like to speak by phone and clear this up. My best wishes to all CB users.

 

I will agree with you that it is hard to understand intent or tone when the words are written. I take you at your word that you intended no animosity.

[nooneimportant]

 

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

This is not accurate. I doubt any banks do random soft pulls. They do regular soft pulls usually quarterly or monthly. In addition, they also use triggers from the CRAs to tell them when to make additional pulls. For example, they may instruct the CRA to alert them if there is a sudden increase in utilization or other signs of financial distress. It is pretty much an assured thing that what you are contemplating will be noticed by most if not all your creditors in short order.

[tiggerlgh]

 

 

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

This is not accurate. I doubt any banks do random soft pulls. They do regular soft pulls usually quarterly or monthly. In addition, they also use triggers from the CRAs to tell them when to make additional pulls. For example, they may instruct the CRA to alert them if there is a sudden increase in utilization or other signs of financial distress. It is pretty much an assured thing that what you are contemplating will be noticed by most if not all your creditors in short order.

I can see banks doing random checks on credit if internal triggers are tripped such as 100% utilization or late pays etc. to see what is going on with customer.

[DeadMoneyDrew]

 

 

 

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

This is not accurate. I doubt any banks do random soft pulls. They do regular soft pulls usually quarterly or monthly. In addition, they also use triggers from the CRAs to tell them when to make additional pulls. For example, they may instruct the CRA to alert them if there is a sudden increase in utilization or other signs of financial distress. It is pretty much an assured thing that what you are contemplating will be noticed by most if not all your creditors in short order.

I can see banks doing random checks on credit if internal triggers are tripped such as 100% utilization or late pays etc. to see what is going on with customer.

What you just described is not random. It's a check that is triggered when certain flags are raised. It's commonly known that banks do this.

[tiggerlgh]

 

 

 

 

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

This is not accurate. I doubt any banks do random soft pulls. They do regular soft pulls usually quarterly or monthly. In addition, they also use triggers from the CRAs to tell them when to make additional pulls. For example, they may instruct the CRA to alert them if there is a sudden increase in utilization or other signs of financial distress. It is pretty much an assured thing that what you are contemplating will be noticed by most if not all your creditors in short order.

I can see banks doing random checks on credit if internal triggers are tripped such as 100% utilization or late pays etc. to see what is going on with customer.

What you just described is not random. It's a check that is triggered when certain flags are raised. It's commonly known that banks do this.

 

Agreed, but Nothingtohide didn't appear to think so. Just pointing out how the banks will catch on to this real fast and they will probably get AA.

[cashnocredit]

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're an adult, so do What you want but I think some banks may think this is bustout

I agree, any bank is going to see this as a bustout and try to shut him down asap. Even if he isn't trying to bustout, it will appear so and they will certainly close him down. I think from his point of view, he can still make payments on the cards at 0%, etc and although he may never be able to use "those" cards ever again, as long as he does actually pay the money back, he will be able to get more cards in the future after he does repay all of them. Anyway, just doesn't seem worth the risk, but not for me to decide, for him to decide.

Without doing a random SP, the banks will only see the usage of their own cards. AS mendelssohn pointed out, there is still concern that they'll get freaked out by the balance on their own cards, but if not they'll never know about my util.

This is not accurate. I doubt any banks do random soft pulls. They do regular soft pulls usually quarterly or monthly. In addition, they also use triggers from the CRAs to tell them when to make additional pulls. For example, they may instruct the CRA to alert them if there is a sudden increase in utilization or other signs of financial distress. It is pretty much an assured thing that what you are contemplating will be noticed by most if not all your creditors in short order.

I can see banks doing random checks on credit if internal triggers are tripped such as 100% utilization or late pays etc. to see what is going on with customer.

What you just described is not random. It's a check that is triggered when certain flags are raised. It's commonly known that banks do this.

 

Agreed, but Nothingtohide didn't appear to think so. Just pointing out how the banks will catch on to this real fast and they will probably get AA.

 

 

OP doesn't care about AA so long as it's more than a microsecond after he gets all the cash he needs.