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First Time Home Buyer- Running thread

The last post in this topic was posted 1334 days ago. 

 

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Not going to argue with you - you can look at it any way you want - until you show me a link that clearly says something different we can just agree to disagree

 

Loan Officers are not required to do all of that work just because someone is interested in a home - they should be willing to but again willing to and obligated to are different - they are under no obligation until the time when the borrower can legally borrow on the property - which means being in contract for a home that you are not the owner of -

 

 

Take Care -

The link he provided from the CFPB clearly states what he is saying.

 

I'm sure many lenders aren't compliant, but that doesn't mean that the CFPB info he posted is incorrect.

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Last post for me as this is way off topic from the OP's post - The piece I posted was from the FAQ section of the TILA site - I am not seeing anything anywhere in the links provided that define address - again a bank is not obligated to disclose until you are in contract - they should give you whatever info you need or want but obligation does not start until you are legally able to borrow against a home - you cannot borrow against a home you do not own or are not in contract on -

 

You can argue your point all you like I will stick with what I know from experience -

Until our banks lawyers tell us otherwise I will do so without fear of being out of compliance -

 

Take Care

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Going with the local lender.

I emailed Navy on Tuesday morning to ask for an estimate of closing costs, insurance, etc and have never heard back. Not even an acknowledgement.

 

So, the 4% from the local was actually a bit of a high estimate. LO said the rate would have been 3.8% that day but she prefers to round up so clients don't get upset if it's higher than the estimate.

It's a big jump in rate to roll closing costs into the loan.

 

Was surprised to learn that the downpayment isn't due until the closing date.

So, 1% earnest money down when we sign the contract with the builder. Then 3.5% down when we close. 1% earnest money is applied to closing costs. Whatever remains is added to loan.

 

If you provided any of these places will all six of the following they must provide you with a Loan Estimate within three business days:

 

- consumer’s name

- consumer’s income

- consumer’s social security number to obtain a credit report,

- property address,

- estimate of the value of the property,

- and mortgage loan amount sought

 

If any of these jackasses are out of compliance I'd file a complaint. This is ridiculous.

 

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201509_cfpb_readiness-guide_mortgage-implementation.pdf

 

 

I'm not sure they are violating anything, since both technically did respond to me within three days.

It's just that neither of them provided thorough/useful estimates and the additional requests are what's going way past 3 days.

 

I'm over it at this point. Neither loan was any better than the other really, and this local one is easier to do business with I suppose.

 

 

While it is no way to do business until there is a contract there is no

Obligation to provide a loan estimate.

 

A loan estimate also hinges on the title company providing the lender with their estimate.

 

Good luck with the purchase

B

 

So, it's my understand that once I sign the contract (today), that I will forward that to the lender and then they draft my application for the actual loan- which is not the same thing as an estimate?

Thanks for all the discussion.

I know it's "off topic", but it's still helpful.

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Going with the local lender.

I emailed Navy on Tuesday morning to ask for an estimate of closing costs, insurance, etc and have never heard back. Not even an acknowledgement.

 

So, the 4% from the local was actually a bit of a high estimate. LO said the rate would have been 3.8% that day but she prefers to round up so clients don't get upset if it's higher than the estimate.

It's a big jump in rate to roll closing costs into the loan.

 

Was surprised to learn that the downpayment isn't due until the closing date.

So, 1% earnest money down when we sign the contract with the builder. Then 3.5% down when we close. 1% earnest money is applied to closing costs. Whatever remains is added to loan.

 

If you provided any of these places will all six of the following they must provide you with a Loan Estimate within three business days:

 

- consumer’s name

- consumer’s income

- consumer’s social security number to obtain a credit report,

- property address,

- estimate of the value of the property,

- and mortgage loan amount sought

 

If any of these jackasses are out of compliance I'd file a complaint. This is ridiculous.

 

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201509_cfpb_readiness-guide_mortgage-implementation.pdf

 

 

I'm not sure they are violating anything, since both technically did respond to me within three days.

It's just that neither of them provided thorough/useful estimates and the additional requests are what's going way past 3 days.

 

I'm over it at this point. Neither loan was any better than the other really, and this local one is easier to do business with I suppose.

 

 

While it is no way to do business until there is a contract there is no

Obligation to provide a loan estimate.

 

A loan estimate also hinges on the title company providing the lender with their estimate.

 

Good luck with the purchase

B

 

So, it's my understand that once I sign the contract (today), that I will forward that to the lender and then they draft my application for the actual loan- which is not the same thing as an estimate?

Thanks for all the discussion.

I know it's "off topic", but it's still helpful.

 

Correct -

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The links are correct - it is your interpretation of address that is where we disagree If you apply to refi the clock starts right away - the property is clearly identified and you can legally borrow against that home (you own it) If you are buying you cannot legally borrow against a home until you are in contract with the owner - Until you are in contract the bank has no obligation and no 3 day clock - once in contract the clock starts for the bank - otherwise someone could call in and say there are 17 houses they are considering and ask for an LE on all of them - That is a bit extreme to make the point - the other point is while the bank is obligated they can and often are put in a tough spot by title companies not providing the needed estimates in a timely manner - may not be the lenders fault - With the agents not responding for days at a time there are issues with these agents = obviously it is not how they should be handling their clients =

 

The regulations I've read make no distinction between a refi and a purchase, and are very clear that the consumer does not have to provide any documentation -- including a contract, or even a statement that a contract is in place -- in order to trigger the LE requirement.

 

The guidance from CFPB is clear on this. This is not my interpretation.

 

I would appreciate a link supporting your interpretation so I don't mislead anyone on this.

 

Beginning October 3, 2015, loan officers are required to provide you with a Loan Estimate once you have provided:

 

  • your name,
  • your income,
  • your Social Security number (so the lender can pull a credit report),
  • the property address,
  • an estimate of the value of the property, and
  • the desired loan amount.

Your loan officer cannot require you to provide documents verifying this information before providing you with a Loan Estimate.

 

 

 

 

 

Going with the local lender.

I emailed Navy on Tuesday morning to ask for an estimate of closing costs, insurance, etc and have never heard back. Not even an acknowledgement.

 

So, the 4% from the local was actually a bit of a high estimate. LO said the rate would have been 3.8% that day but she prefers to round up so clients don't get upset if it's higher than the estimate.

It's a big jump in rate to roll closing costs into the loan.

 

Was surprised to learn that the downpayment isn't due until the closing date.

So, 1% earnest money down when we sign the contract with the builder. Then 3.5% down when we close. 1% earnest money is applied to closing costs. Whatever remains is added to loan.

 

If you provided any of these places will all six of the following they must provide you with a Loan Estimate within three business days:

 

- consumer’s name

- consumer’s income

- consumer’s social security number to obtain a credit report,

- property address,

- estimate of the value of the property,

- and mortgage loan amount sought

 

If any of these jackasses are out of compliance I'd file a complaint. This is ridiculous.

 

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201509_cfpb_readiness-guide_mortgage-implementation.pdf

 

 

I'm not sure they are violating anything, since both technically did respond to me within three days.

It's just that neither of them provided thorough/useful estimates and the additional requests are what's going way past 3 days.

 

I'm over it at this point. Neither loan was any better than the other really, and this local one is easier to do business with I suppose.

 

 

 

 

One of the central points of "Know Before You Owe" (a/k/a TILA/RESPA reform) was to shift more power to the consumer and allow them to comparison shop for mortgages earlier in the process. It makes no sense for a consumer to only begin mortgage shopping after they have already put down earnest money and committed to a seller.

 

If you do not receive one of these:

 

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/201311_cfpb_kbyo_loan-estimate.pdf

 

Within three business days of providing this:

 

- consumer’s name

- consumer’s income

- consumer’s social security number to obtain a credit report,

- property address,

- estimate of the value of the property,

- and mortgage loan amount sought

... then your originator is out of compliance with current regulations, and you can and should file a complaint with the CFPB.

 

Different mortgage companies have different risk tolerances for potential enforcement action, and run their businesses accordingly. The regulations are clear. File a complaint.

Edited by cv91915

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

Edited by CreditNewb15

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

 

I personally wouldn't bother at this point, but you should be aware of their obligations to the consumer.

 

I think the issue is that many lenders have decided not to comply, or simply have not changed their procedures to be able to comply.

 

There is not disputing what CV posted though. The CFPB was very clear about what needs to happen. There is no wiggle room.

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

 

I personally wouldn't bother at this point, but you should be aware of their obligations to the consumer.

 

I think the issue is that many lenders have decided not to comply, or simply have not changed their procedures to be able to comply.

 

There is not disputing what CV posted though. The CFPB was very clear about what needs to happen. There is no wiggle room.

 

 

 

Right, I can see that.

But if there is no benefit for me, I don't see the point.

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I'm agreeing with you, and at the same time pointing out that you should know their obligations to you.

 

Since you aren't going to use them, there is no benefit to you at this point. If it was a lender that you did want to use, you wouldn't want to lemonade them off by filing a complaint. That's probably why so many mortgage originators are not in compliance or unaware of the changes. There is generally little incentive for the consumer to file a complaint.

 

FYI, here is a link to the Ohio State Bar Association explaining the new "Know Before You Owe" disclosures as mandated by the CFPB. I didn't want to post a link to a mortgage originator here (against the rules), so I figured this would be the best source. It upholds CV's link from the CFPB.

 

 


Q: What is the Loan Estimate?
A: A consumer must receive the Loan Estimate within three days after making a loan application with a lending creditor. The Loan Estimate provides easy-to-read information about the interest rate, monthly payments, escrows for taxes and insurance, pre-payment penalties, adjustable rates and closing costs. It is not necessary to sign an official loan application form before receiving the Loan Estimate, as long as you’ve given the creditor the address of the property, the loan amount you are requesting, basic income information, the estimated property value, your name and your Social Security number.

 

https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/New-Real-Estate-Closing-Disclosures-Know-Before-You-Owe.aspx

Edited by mendelssohn

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

The PDF that I linked is the exact form that must be provided within three business days of conveying the six items I've listed in this thread.

 

It's up to you whether you file a complaint or not. Personally, I would do it to help the next guy who might otherwise get jerked around.

 

The complaint just needs to say that you did not receive a Loan Estimate at all, much less within three days of providing your mortgage application, which only has to consist of the six listed items to be considered complete. Include the date you provided the last of the six requirements.

 

Complaints can be done online in a minute or two on the CFPB's web site. If everyone is silent when this stuff happens it will never be addressed.

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

The PDF that I linked is the exact form that must be provided within three business days of conveying the six items I've listed in this thread.

 

It's up to you whether you file a complaint or not. Personally, I would do it to help the next guy who might otherwise get jerked around.

 

The complaint just needs to say that you did not receive a Loan Estimate at all, much less within three days of providing your mortgage application, which only has to consist of the six listed items to be considered complete. Include the date you provided the last of the six requirements.

 

Complaints can be done online in a minute or two on the CFPB's web site. If everyone is silent when this stuff happens it will never be addressed.

 

 

Yep, that is why I'll submit a "story" or whatever they call it but won't file an official complain.

I don't want to hear back from CFPB or Navy again.

 

 

CreditNewb did you give them the address when you applied and asked for preapproval?

 

I did not.

It's a new build, so I still don't have the address.

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So, Navy would be considered out of compliance since it took almost a week to get a written preapproval. And that was essentially only the interest rate. Nothing like the pdf you linked.

And it's been exactly a week since I asked them to provide the detailed estimates like the other lender provided.

 

The local lender provided me all that information over the phone within a day, but then took another week to send me the written estimates.

But the document looked exactly like the pdf you linked.

 

 

 

Since I'm not going with Navy anyway, I'm not sure what good filing a complaint would do me. I'll likely just fill out the "tell your story" option instead.

I don't feel victimized or anything, more like it's just very poor customer service.

The PDF that I linked is the exact form that must be provided within three business days of conveying the six items I've listed in this thread.

 

It's up to you whether you file a complaint or not. Personally, I would do it to help the next guy who might otherwise get jerked around.

 

The complaint just needs to say that you did not receive a Loan Estimate at all, much less within three days of providing your mortgage application, which only has to consist of the six listed items to be considered complete. Include the date you provided the last of the six requirements.

 

Complaints can be done online in a minute or two on the CFPB's web site. If everyone is silent when this stuff happens it will never be addressed.

 

 

Yep, that is why I'll submit a "story" or whatever they call it but won't file an official complain.

I don't want to hear back from CFPB or Navy again.

 

 

CreditNewb did you give them the address when you applied and asked for preapproval?

 

I did not.

It's a new build, so I still don't have the address.

 

 

This would have been useful info two or three days ago. :lol:

 

Oh, well, good discussion.

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A few weeks ago, DGF and I had a fully-executed contract on our first home. (It did not work out, and we're out looking again.)

 

Anyway, since this was my first time, I extensively took-in the great resources at the CFPB. I was absolutely committed to shopping-around for the largest purchase of my life.

 

We had been pre-approved by a local mortgage broker. He, and his firm, were great. They were incredibly responsive, and just generally on-point people--returning emails and calls almost instantaneously.

 

To keep this post short, suffice it to say that obtaining official Loan Estimates from that broker, Chase, WellsFargo, a small local bank, and another local broker was actually more excruciating than pulling teeth. A LO from WellsFargo (national guy, that I spoke to only over the phone) flat-out would not provide one. The LO from the local bank (who was a VP that I was referred to by our real estate agent, who we trust) conveniently did not reply to my e-mails until just after I sent him a message saying that we were going with someone else. Chase and the other local broker furnished one after some slightly tough talk from me (referencing the CFPB). And as for the original broker ...

 

We had intended on using him all-along. We were obtaining estimates from the others in order to make sure we were getting the best deal. He "passed on our loan." Until, that is, I sent him a very kind email expressing DGF's and my thanks for all of his help so far, and linking to a couple posts from the CFPB basically referencing all that has been discussed in this thread thusfar. Then he miraculously discovered, in my initial email to him requesting the official Loan Estimate, all of the 6 key pieces of information that were required to furnish the LE.

 

Sorry for all of that word vomit.

 

It's just been really reassuring to hear that my experience was not an outlier. A basic underlying idea of these reforms, to echo an earlier post here, was to move some of the power in these transactions back to the consumer. It's a shame to see that so many LOs (and companies) are still trying to exploit the information gap, if that's what its appropriately called.

 

These guys all furnished a worksheet that explicitly says "This is Not a Loan Estimate", "Anything on this worksheet can change at any time", but when pressed to comply with the law and furnish a LE, everything is suddenly all wishy-washy.

 

OP, file the complaint.

 

And anyone else reading this who's experienced something similar, please do the same.

Edited by beenaroundtheblock

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A few weeks ago, DGF and I had a fully-executed contract on our first home. (It did not work out, and we're out looking again.)

 

Anyway, since this was my first time, I extensively took-in the great resources at the CFPB. I was absolutely committed to shopping-around for the largest purchase of my life.

 

We had been pre-approved by a local mortgage broker. He, and his firm, were great. They were incredibly responsive, and just generally on-point people--returning emails and calls almost instantaneously.

 

To keep this post short, suffice it to say that obtaining official Loan Estimates from that broker, Chase, WellsFargo, a small local bank, and another local broker was actually more excruciating than pulling teeth. A LO from WellsFargo (national guy, that I spoke to only over the phone) flat-out would not provide one. The LO from the local bank (who was a VP that I was referred to by our real estate agent, who we trust) conveniently did not reply to my e-mails until just after I sent him a message saying that we were going with someone else. Chase and the other local broker furnished one after some slightly tough talk from me (referencing the CFPB). And as for the original broker ...

 

We had intended on using him all-along. We were obtaining estimates from the others in order to make sure we were getting the best deal. He "passed on our loan." Until, that is, I sent him a very kind email expressing DGF's and my thanks for all of his help so far, and linking to a couple posts from the CFPB basically referencing all that has been discussed in this thread thusfar. Then he miraculously discovered, in my initial email to him requesting the official Loan Estimate, all of the 6 key pieces of information that were required to furnish the LE.

 

Sorry for all of that word vomit.

 

It's just been really reassuring to hear that my experience was not an outlier. A basic underlying idea of these reforms, to echo an earlier post here, was to move some of the power in these transactions back to the consumer. It's a shame to see that so many LOs (and companies) are still trying to exploit the information gap, if that's what its appropriately called.

 

These guys all furnished a worksheet that explicitly says "This is Not a Loan Estimate", "Anything on this worksheet can change at any time", but when pressed to comply with the law and furnish a LE, everything is suddenly all wishy-washy.

 

OP, file the complaint.

 

And anyone else reading this who's experienced something similar, please do the same.

You missed the last several posts where we learned that NFCU was not out of compliance (he never gave an address).

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A few weeks ago, DGF and I had a fully-executed contract on our first home. (It did not work out, and we're out looking again.)

 

Anyway, since this was my first time, I extensively took-in the great resources at the CFPB. I was absolutely committed to shopping-around for the largest purchase of my life.

 

We had been pre-approved by a local mortgage broker. He, and his firm, were great. They were incredibly responsive, and just generally on-point people--returning emails and calls almost instantaneously.

 

To keep this post short, suffice it to say that obtaining official Loan Estimates from that broker, Chase, WellsFargo, a small local bank, and another local broker was actually more excruciating than pulling teeth. A LO from WellsFargo (national guy, that I spoke to only over the phone) flat-out would not provide one. The LO from the local bank (who was a VP that I was referred to by our real estate agent, who we trust) conveniently did not reply to my e-mails until just after I sent him a message saying that we were going with someone else. Chase and the other local broker furnished one after some slightly tough talk from me (referencing the CFPB). And as for the original broker ...

 

We had intended on using him all-along. We were obtaining estimates from the others in order to make sure we were getting the best deal. He "passed on our loan." Until, that is, I sent him a very kind email expressing DGF's and my thanks for all of his help so far, and linking to a couple posts from the CFPB basically referencing all that has been discussed in this thread thusfar. Then he miraculously discovered, in my initial email to him requesting the official Loan Estimate, all of the 6 key pieces of information that were required to furnish the LE.

 

Sorry for all of that word vomit.

 

It's just been really reassuring to hear that my experience was not an outlier. A basic underlying idea of these reforms, to echo an earlier post here, was to move some of the power in these transactions back to the consumer. It's a shame to see that so many LOs (and companies) are still trying to exploit the information gap, if that's what its appropriately called.

 

These guys all furnished a worksheet that explicitly says "This is Not a Loan Estimate", "Anything on this worksheet can change at any time", but when pressed to comply with the law and furnish a LE, everything is suddenly all wishy-washy.

 

OP, file the complaint.

 

And anyone else reading this who's experienced something similar, please do the same.

You missed the last several posts where we learned that NFCU was not out of compliance (he never gave an address).

True, in OP's instance the six elements weren't provided, but I agree with this poster's sentiment.

 

It's shocking to hear that one year into this reform (almost to the day) consumers still aren't getting what they are entitled to.

 

Complaints are the answer. At some point there will be a major CFPB enforcement action (punishment/fines), and that will start bringing the non-compliant mortgage companies in line with what they should already be doing.

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I realize now they didn't HAVE to provide me all those details, but I still consider it poor customer service.

I'll file a complaint with Navy for that.

I just can't believe they have now gone 8 days without a phone call or email response.

 

And once we close, I'll talk to my lender about how slow she moved as well.

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I realize now they didn't HAVE to provide me all those details, but I still consider it poor customer service.

I'll file a complaint with Navy for that.

I just can't believe they have now gone 8 days without a phone call or email response.

 

And once we close, I'll talk to my lender about how slow she moved as well.

 

That was not my experience with NFCU, but I imagine that my experience would have been the same with almost any mortgage originator. I knew that any small thing could potentially keep us from closing on time, and our closing date was 10 days before Christmas. We had also invited my parents for Christmas and needed to close on time. I stayed in touch with them regularly throughout the process just to make sure that everything was in order.

 

Edit: you mentioned previously that most of your contact was through email and that you were not always free to make or take phone calls. IME phone was quick and easy, and if nobody was available to take my calls, I followed up shortly thereafter.

Edited by mendelssohn

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I have not been proactive trying to reach anyone.

Navy, the lender I chose, or my personal bank.

Once I got Navy on the phone, they were very helpful.

 

It takes me several minutes to exit my building (which is where I have to use my phone). Then if I get out there and don't get an answer, I have to head back in which takes another few minutes.

A minor inconvenience is all, but enough to stop me from continually trying to reach them.

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I'm not faulting you, just pointing out one of the reasons I think you had communication issues.

 

Oh, I didn't think you were.

I just didn't want to come across as a whiny b****.

 

In all likelihood, it would have been fine if I had been more willing to call every other day.

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