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Another For-Profit Diploma Mill Bites The Dust?

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I dated (and lived with for a time when I was in Chicago) a DePaul Law grad who graduated with a solid 2.0 GPA. After graduation his student loan payments were almost $1,000 a month. He was making about $42,000 a year. We had nothing to spend on entertainment. I finally left when a friend pointed out that he looked like a crash test dummy with hair.

You just described a very common third tier toilet law school outcome. There are about 200 accredited law schools in the USA. They are commonly referred to at first tier (1-50), second tier (51-100), third tier and four tier.

 

The top 14 schools are called T14.

 

If you don't make it into a T14 school, your odds of making big money as a lawyer drop dramatically. BigLaw hires primarily from T14.

 

Everyone else, 180+ law schools, is in what they call small law (aka sh!t law). They are lucky to make $40,000. And probably more than 50% never get a job requiring their degree, but they still have that $150,000+ in debt.

 

Very common story these days.

The legal blogs refer to it as the Law School Scam.

The sucker students all think lawyers make bank and apply to those third tier and fourth tier school.

Most of them are ruining their lives into student loans that cannot be discharged in BK.

 

The lawyers you are likely to deal with in the collection industry are those bottom of the barrel law school grads. Debt collection is very low margin and not considered prestigious at all. The lawyers making $100,000+ don't do these small credit card cases.

Edited by RocketGoBoom

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IME, the only "for profit" education institution that produces graduates worth hiring is ITT Technical - and that's just for entry level roles that you're willing to start at the bottom for low pay and mold them into something useful.

 

LOL. ITT Tech closed its doors today. Lost its accredidation and federal financial aid.

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I dated (and lived with for a time when I was in Chicago) a DePaul Law grad who graduated with a solid 2.0 GPA. After graduation his student loan payments were almost $1,000 a month. He was making about $42,000 a year. We had nothing to spend on entertainment. I finally left when a friend pointed out that he looked like a crash test dummy with hair.

You just described a very common third tier toilet law school outcome. There are about 200 accredited law schools in the USA. They are commonly referred to at first tier (1-50), second tier (51-100), third tier and four tier.

The top 14 schools are called T14.

If you don't make it into a T14 school, your odds of making big money as a lawyer drop dramatically. BigLaw hires primarily from T14.

Everyone else, 180+ law schools, is in what they call small law (aka sh!t law). They are lucky to make $40,000. And probably more than 50% never get a job requiring their degree, but they still have that $150,000+ in debt.

Very common story these days.

The legal blogs refer to it as the Law School Scam.

There's obviously many more than 14 good law schools.

 

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, UT, SMU, Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, NYU, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, George Washington, UA, ASU, BYU, Notre Dame, Indiana. I'm not a lawyer and can bust all those off the top of my head, and am probably missing some very obvious ones.

Edited by Konrad2012

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I dated (and lived with for a time when I was in Chicago) a DePaul Law grad who graduated with a solid 2.0 GPA. After graduation his student loan payments were almost $1,000 a month. He was making about $42,000 a year. We had nothing to spend on entertainment. I finally left when a friend pointed out that he looked like a crash test dummy with hair.

 

I know plenty of stories like that. very different than using ignorant blanket statements about higher ed.

Mine was more a commentary on crash test dummies with hair. Some of them might have promising futures. Mine did not.

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I dated (and lived with for a time when I was in Chicago) a DePaul Law grad who graduated with a solid 2.0 GPA. After graduation his student loan payments were almost $1,000 a month. He was making about $42,000 a year. We had nothing to spend on entertainment. I finally left when a friend pointed out that he looked like a crash test dummy with hair.

You just described a very common third tier toilet law school outcome. There are about 200 accredited law schools in the USA. They are commonly referred to at first tier (1-50), second tier (51-100), third tier and four tier.

The top 14 schools are called T14.

If you don't make it into a T14 school, your odds of making big money as a lawyer drop dramatically. BigLaw hires primarily from T14.

Everyone else, 180+ law schools, is in what they call small law (aka sh!t law). They are lucky to make $40,000. And probably more than 50% never get a job requiring their degree, but they still have that $150,000+ in debt.

Very common story these days.

The legal blogs refer to it as the Law School Scam.

 

There's obviously many more than 14 good law schools.

 

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, UT, SMU, Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, NYU, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, George Washington, UA, ASU, BYU, Notre Dame, Indiana. I'm not a lawyer and can bust all those off the top of my head, and am probably missing some very obvious ones.

 

 

 

I am just telling you how BigLaw hiring typically runs. They look at the T14 primarily.

 

That is not a commentary on if the education is good or bad at other schools. Within the legal profession, if you don't attend a T14 school, you are not considered "prestigious" and are far less likely to be hired.

 

It is really silly. But that is how the legal industry functions at the top.

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I dated (and lived with for a time when I was in Chicago) a DePaul Law grad who graduated with a solid 2.0 GPA. After graduation his student loan payments were almost $1,000 a month. He was making about $42,000 a year. We had nothing to spend on entertainment. I finally left when a friend pointed out that he looked like a crash test dummy with hair.

You just described a very common third tier toilet law school outcome. There are about 200 accredited law schools in the USA. They are commonly referred to at first tier (1-50), second tier (51-100), third tier and four tier.

The top 14 schools are called T14.

If you don't make it into a T14 school, your odds of making big money as a lawyer drop dramatically. BigLaw hires primarily from T14.

Everyone else, 180+ law schools, is in what they call small law (aka sh!t law). They are lucky to make $40,000. And probably more than 50% never get a job requiring their degree, but they still have that $150,000+ in debt.

Very common story these days.

The legal blogs refer to it as the Law School Scam.

There's obviously many more than 14 good law schools.

 

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, UT, SMU, Columbia, Northwestern, Cornell, NYU, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, George Washington, UA, ASU, BYU, Notre Dame, Indiana. I'm not a lawyer and can bust all those off the top of my head, and am probably missing some very obvious ones.

 

Princeton has no law school. The University of Michigan and University of Chicago do and are obvious misses as they are first rate schools.

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http://www.ibj.com/articles/60366-itt-educational-calling-it-quits-after-lender-seizes-bank-accounts

 

Carmel-based ITT Educational Services Inc. plans to cease all operations on Friday after a decision by its senior lender to seize control of its bank accounts.

 

The for-profit educator, which last week shut down all 136 of its ITT Technical Institute campuses in 38 states, announced the decision in a regulatory document Wednesday.

 

ITT announced the campus closures Sept. 6, a week after the education department banned the company from accepting new students who use federal financial aid. ITT received 79 percent of its cash receipts from the federal student loan program in 2015.

 

The education department also placed several other sanctions on ITT, including a freeze on executive compensation and an order that it increase its surety funds from $94.4 million to $247.3 million within the next 30 days.

 

ITT said it received notification from the lender Sept. 8 that said the company was in default on its financing agreement due to the U.S. Department of Education’s Aug. 25 requirement that ITT increase its surety by $152.9 million.

 

The lender said ITT was required to immediately repay the entire outstanding amount of its loan of “approximately $34.5 million, together with all fees, costs and expenses and all other obligations payable under the financing agreement.”

 

The lender said it "provided notice to the company’s financial institutions that the lender was exercising its control over the company’s bank accounts and instructed the financial institutions to transfer all of the company’s cash balances to accounts controlled by the lender."

 

That apparently was the final straw for ITT.

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The online universities are a joke and nothing more than a diploma mill. I cant believe any employer would take those degrees as serious. Everyone should have to physically attend like I did!

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The online universities are a joke and nothing more than a diploma mill. I cant believe any employer would take those degrees as serious. Everyone should have to physically attend like I did!

 

I agree when you're talking about Univ of Phoenix and other worthless degrees. However, online degrees from legitimate universities are perfectly fine.

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The online universities are a joke and nothing more than a diploma mill. I cant believe any employer would take those degrees as serious. Everyone should have to physically attend like I did!

 

I agree when you're talking about Univ of Phoenix and other worthless degrees. However, online degrees from legitimate universities are perfectly fine.

 

 

My BS in Information Systems from Strayer cost me only about $15K back in the early 1990s. I attended normal classes on campus. Online wasn't even a thing back then. They have the quarter system, so I was able to complete a 4-year degree in only 3 years. It opened the door to a very lucrative IT career. Best investment I ever made, by far.

 

At one time, I did apply for law school. It was either UVA or W&M, two of the very best in the country, or nothing. Got waitlisted. Never went. Glad I didn't. I have probably made more than most lawyers have over the past 20 years or so, and I didn't get saddled with a six-figure student loan debt.

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The online universities are a joke and nothing more than a diploma mill. I cant believe any employer would take those degrees as serious. Everyone should have to physically attend like I did!

I agree when you're talking about Univ of Phoenix and other worthless degrees. However, online degrees from legitimate universities are perfectly fine.

My BS in Information Systems from Strayer cost me only about $15K back in the early 1990s. I attended normal classes on campus. Online wasn't even a thing back then. They have the quarter system, so I was able to complete a 4-year degree in only 3 years. It opened the door to a very lucrative IT career. Best investment I ever made, by far.

 

At one time, I did apply for law school. It was either UVA or W&M, two of the very best in the country, or nothing. Got waitlisted. Never went. Glad I didn't. I have probably made more than most lawyers have over the past 20 years or so, and I didn't get saddled with a six-figure student loan debt.

What sort of work do you do in IT?

 

I was reading someone else's story about ITT and this whole mess with shutting down. Because of how credits do and don't transfer, they're basically saddled with thousands of dollars of student loan debt and having to start over in a new nursing program. Which sucks donkey balls. Let me tell you. Nursing school sucks no matter what school you attend. It's hard, it's grueling. Starting over would be devastating.

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The online universities are a joke and nothing more than a diploma mill. I cant believe any employer would take those degrees as serious. Everyone should have to physically attend like I did!

I agree when you're talking about Univ of Phoenix and other worthless degrees. However, online degrees from legitimate universities are perfectly fine.

My BS in Information Systems from Strayer cost me only about $15K back in the early 1990s. I attended normal classes on campus. Online wasn't even a thing back then. They have the quarter system, so I was able to complete a 4-year degree in only 3 years. It opened the door to a very lucrative IT career. Best investment I ever made, by far.

 

At one time, I did apply for law school. It was either UVA or W&M, two of the very best in the country, or nothing. Got waitlisted. Never went. Glad I didn't. I have probably made more than most lawyers have over the past 20 years or so, and I didn't get saddled with a six-figure student loan debt.

What sort of work do you do in IT?

 

I was reading someone else's story about ITT and this whole mess with shutting down. Because of how credits do and don't transfer, they're basically saddled with thousands of dollars of student loan debt and having to start over in a new nursing program. Which sucks donkey balls. Let me tell you. Nursing school sucks no matter what school you attend. It's hard, it's grueling. Starting over would be devastating.

 

With any luck, though it might take awhile if one was a student at ITT when it shut down your loans will be forgiven. That's why the Feds were requiring ITT pay up the money that will go towards loan forgiveness.

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Some of them will qualify for their loans to be forgiven. Most nursing students will have to start completely over with no transfer of credits. So, for them it's about the loss of time. There's an opportunity cost of lost wages and lost benefits, like retirement accounts and pensions, that comes with delaying graduation another two years. For people entering nursing as a second career, it's a pretty big blow for them.

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Just heard I.T.T. Tech will be closing its doors. This morning.

 

I went to I.T.T. Briefly. It was not a good school.

 

And my "debts" just keep going away... :yahoo:

That's something to be proud of. Do you pay any of your bills, ever?

It's Official:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/pf/college/itt-shuts-down/index.html

 

ITT Technical Institute has shut down

Treated like any other CA.

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http://www.ibj.com/articles/print/61478-itts-bankruptcy-fallout-includes-warehouse-of-paperwork

 

Among the fallout from the ITT Educational Services bankruptcy are the multiple pallets of paperwork being offloaded every weekday into a chilly warehouse south of downtown Indianapolis.

Each of the wooden pallets is stacked with 40 Bankers Boxes containing 20 to 30 files from the for-profit college’s campuses around the country. Of particular concern are records of the students and alumni, not only because they include transcripts, loan information, Social Security numbers and other personal data, but also because these documents will likely need to be accessed long after the bankruptcy is finished.

Monday through Friday, forklifts motor into trucks parked at the loading dock of GRM Document Management, retrieving the remnants of the education business. In a two-week span, ITT collapsed from 8,000 employees, 40,000 students and 138 locations to just five employees.

ITT, headquartered in Carmel, filed a voluntary petition for Chapter 7 bankruptcy on Sept. 16 in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Indiana. The liquidation proceedings came, in part, after the U.S. Department of Education clamped down on federal aid flowing into the college by prohibiting the institution from enrolling new students with federal loans, and by slowing down the pace at which ITT received student aid in order to ensure finances were being properly handled.

That same day, Deborah Caruso of Rubin & Levin P.C. in Indianapolis, was appointed trustee of the ITT estate and charged with identifying and liquidating the assets for the benefit of the creditors. As trustee, her counsel includes attorneys from her firm and from Proskauer Rose LLP in Chicago.

The student records are only one aspect of this bankruptcy. There are employee records, pension benefits and 401(k) retirement funds, plus lawsuits previously filed by federal agencies and some states’ attorneys general.

ITT leased 106 facilities and owned 31 across 38 states. Immediately, Caruso and her team had to find and secure each building, and identify and gather all assets and records.

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http://www.ibj.com/articles/62724-itt-trustee-hires-feared-litigators


The Chapter 7 bankruptcy trustee for ITT Educational Services has hired “the most feared” litigators in the nation to help with investigating and prosecuting claims against the former directors and officers of the for-profit school. Robins Kaplan LLP, based in Minneapolis, has been appointed as litigation co-counsel in the ITT bankruptcy. The U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of Indiana granted the trustee’s application Friday.The Indiana-based ITT filed for Chapter 7 protection in September 2016 after the U.S. Department of Education stopped the flow of federal student loan money to the for-profit school. Deborah Caruso of Rubin & Levin P.C. in Indianapolis was appointed as the trustee of the ITT estate. Robins Kaplan has experience in bankruptcy matters with for-profit colleges and the trustee noted with more the 200 “highly trained trial lawyers” the firm can mobilize “to efficiently and aggressively pursue” the claims against former ITT officials. In its application to employ Robins Kaplan, the ITT trustee described the firm’s litigators and “the best and ‘most feared’” in the nation.

Edited by IndyPoolPlayer

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IME, the only "for profit" education institution that produces graduates worth hiring is ITT Technical - and that's just for entry level roles that you're willing to start at the bottom for low pay and mold them into something useful. Brown Mackie, Phoenix, etc diplomas aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

 

I would agree. I graduated from ITT tech, at least there, you get what you put into it. I saw plenty of useless students there as well.... but now I am where I am because of it. (started at the bottom, and worked my way up through additional training and certification)

I would still say, it is MUCH cheaper to go to a community college, and complete the associate there, then move on to the university system for the 4 year....

 

I attempted going to Devry, and they tried to steal a large sum of money from me..... luckily they didnt get a penny after simply denying the debt with the CRAs.

on top of that, they dont do student loans, its some kind of devry credit card of some such.....

Boy that was a BAD experience.

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I started my IT career at ITT. However, this was a special one year course to prepare you for Microsoft certifications. No college credits. It was free through a government grant. After I received all my certifications I got a low level IT swing shift job and finished my lower division courses st at community college before transferring to Long Beach state and receiving my degree in computer science. The people talking the full fledged classes at ITT had a hard time finding a good job. The recruiters would hammer me while I was there to continue with their program but I knew a degree from ITT would be a joke. It was fine if you just wanted IT certifications.

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