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Visa plans to cut the wait for chip-card transactions

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On Tuesday, credit card network Visa announced plans to offer an update to Point of Sale (POS) systems to make using an EMV chip-enabled card faster at the checkout line. (EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard, and Visa, the creators of the credit card specification.) Visa is calling the new specification “Quick Chip,” and it says it will bring the time it takes for a terminal to read the card’s chip down to two seconds.... http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/04/magnetic-stripe-cards-were-insecure-but-fastvisa-says-chip-cards-can-compete/

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... down from an hour and a half.

 

It's about time. The current chip processing times make me fondly remember paying for groceries with a check.

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I still can't fathom how we screwed this up so much. I'm on vacation in a country that uses chip and virtually every place takes card. The transaction completes approximately one second after I enter my PIN, three seconds overall (including in a tourist town in the middle of nowhere). The longest delay has been at self-service fuel pumps, which have a lot more prompts. Starbucks in the US has been having reports of slow chip readers...if only they had stopped over here and asked the Starbucks with the exact same point-of-sale computers (down to the 80s-era blue/grey LCD price display screens) how they get it done in under four total seconds.

 

As a nice bonus, since my card is coded as issued by an English-writing country, all of the menus on the terminals change to English when I insert it.

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Walgreens chip card transactions take like 3 seconds. Not sure why everyone else's are slow motion. Maybe they are a test bed for the new standard.

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Walgreens chip card transactions take like 3 seconds. Not sure why everyone else's are slow motion. Maybe they are a test bed for the new standard.

I've noticed this too at Walgreens.

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Come back and talk to me when the chip is faster than the swipe.

 

Anything else is trading convenience for zero direct benefit whatsoever. Big step backward.

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I always thought it was supposed to move to chip and PIN? How is the chip any more secure than swiping the mag stripe?

That's the next quantum leap backwards for convenience.

 

What a wonderful enhancement. In exchange for nothing, I'll have to remember which of my 32 PINs goes with each of my cards.

 

Maybe I will just write the PIN on the back of each card with a Sharpie.

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I always thought it was supposed to move to chip and PIN? How is the chip any more secure than swiping the mag stripe?

That's the next quantum leap backwards for convenience.

 

What a wonderful enhancement. In exchange for nothing, I'll have to remember which of my 32 PINs goes with each of my cards.

 

Maybe I will just write the PIN on the back of each card with a Sharpie.

 

 

*shrug*

 

It's how it's done in the UK, at least. I tried getting SDFCU to allow me to just input a PIN but every time I inserted the card while I was over there on business trips, it would print out the receipt for me to sign. Freaked out many a Tesco cashier as they went scrounging to find a pen.

 

One can always adjust the PIN associated with a card by calling in. Otherwise, honestly, what good does the PIN do that the mag stripe doesn't? Still have to sign the receipt.

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I always thought it was supposed to move to chip and PIN? How is the chip any more secure than swiping the mag stripe?

 

That's the next quantum leap backwards for convenience.

What a wonderful enhancement. In exchange for nothing, I'll have to remember which of my 32 PINs goes with each of my cards.

Maybe I will just write the PIN on the back of each card with a Sharpie.

*shrug*

 

It's how it's done in the UK, at least. I tried getting SDFCU to allow me to just input a PIN but every time I inserted the card while I was over there on business trips, it would print out the receipt for me to sign. Freaked out many a Tesco cashier as they went scrounging to find a pen.

 

One can always adjust the PIN associated with a card by calling in. Otherwise, honestly, what good does the PIN do that the mag stripe doesn't? Still have to sign the receipt.

The chip makes the card much harder to clone, so it reduces someone else's risk. You just get the inconvenience of it all.

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*shrug*

 

It's how it's done in the UK, at least. I tried getting SDFCU to allow me to just input a PIN but every time I inserted the card while I was over there on business trips, it would print out the receipt for me to sign. Freaked out many a Tesco cashier as they went scrounging to find a pen.

 

One can always adjust the PIN associated with a card by calling in. Otherwise, honestly, what good does the PIN do that the mag stripe doesn't? Still have to sign the receipt.

 

 

That's because SDFCU cards aren't "PIN primary." The first card verification method on their cards is signature, with PIN listed lower, and Tesco's system honors the request for a signature. First Tech-issued cards have PIN listed first, second, and third (varying methods of encryption of the PIN). I'm standing in Europe right now and have never been asked to sign for a purchase made with either of my First Tech cards. Capital One? Yup, each time; well, twice, because I gave up using the C1 card since it doesn't play nice with unattended gas pumps. If we had PIN-and-no-magstripe, the card would be completely useless to anyone who doesn't know the PIN and make the card an actual two-factor authentication system for payments (something you have, the card, and something you know, the PIN).

 

The U.S. screwed up this rollout very much. We had over 50 other countries we could have copied but, for some unknown reason, we had to haul off and try to reinvent the wheel. It is easier and faster for me to pay by card (with PIN) or even contactless (with my phone because virtually no MasterCard or VISA issuer will give out an NFC-capable card) by going to Canada than it is to stand in a Fred Meyer in Washington State.

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I always thought it was supposed to move to chip and PIN? How is the chip any more secure than swiping the mag stripe?

That's the next quantum leap backwards for convenience.

What a wonderful enhancement. In exchange for nothing, I'll have to remember which of my 32 PINs goes with each of my cards.

Maybe I will just write the PIN on the back of each card with a Sharpie.

 

*shrug*

 

It's how it's done in the UK, at least. I tried getting SDFCU to allow me to just input a PIN but every time I inserted the card while I was over there on business trips, it would print out the receipt for me to sign. Freaked out many a Tesco cashier as they went scrounging to find a pen.

 

One can always adjust the PIN associated with a card by calling in. Otherwise, honestly, what good does the PIN do that the mag stripe doesn't? Still have to sign the receipt.

 

The chip makes the card much harder to clone, so it reduces someone else's risk. You just get the inconvenience of it all.

 

There's nothing intrinsically slower with chip cards except for crappy programming protocols.

 

Chipped cards have the ability to verify they haven't been cloned locally.

 

There are a few basic functions chipped cards have. Verify the chipped card hasn't been cloned. Striped cards are trivial to clone and you don't even need a card to clone. You can just buy the electronic info from black market internet sites, make a clone, and go to town. Info from a swipe gets transmitted to the issuer together with a purchase amount and is either approved or not. OTOH, crappy (security obsessed) chip programming outsources both the verification and purchase approval so the delay is because you have to leave the card in the terminal socket until the merchant rings up the charge. This is the reason for delays.

 

A reasonable chip protocol is local verification of the card by the merchant's terminal which takes a second or two at the most. The merchant can continue to ring stuff up then transmit that to the issuer for approval in the same manner as is done with the swipe data without requiring the card to remain plugged.

 

This opens up man in the middle (compromise of the merchant terminal) attacks but this is rare compared to card cloning. The big advantage is that you don't have to leave the card inserted until everything is rung up. This is the normal way CC swiping works. The approval comes after the purchase is completed when you get to sign the receipt. This is where the merchant is supposed to check the signature with that on the card. Almost no one does that now for the same reason. Speeds things up. Chipped cards will not need this step as much since the card clone isn't a risk. They can also approve a larger dollar amount without a signature requirement. Most stores don't need signatures below $25 or $50. Costco, for instance, doesn't require sigs for anything under $200.

Edited by cashnocredit

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Thanks

 

So there is a bit more security but nothing earth-shattering and certainly hasn't been more useful for consumers, practically speaking. The update, if it works quickly like they're saying, would be nice, though.

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*shrug*

 

It's how it's done in the UK, at least. I tried getting SDFCU to allow me to just input a PIN but every time I inserted the card while I was over there on business trips, it would print out the receipt for me to sign. Freaked out many a Tesco cashier as they went scrounging to find a pen.

 

One can always adjust the PIN associated with a card by calling in. Otherwise, honestly, what good does the PIN do that the mag stripe doesn't? Still have to sign the receipt.

 

That's because SDFCU cards aren't "PIN primary." The first card verification method on their cards is signature, with PIN listed lower, and Tesco's system honors the request for a signature. First Tech-issued cards have PIN listed first, second, and third (varying methods of encryption of the PIN). I'm standing in Europe right now and have never been asked to sign for a purchase made with either of my First Tech cards. Capital One? Yup, each time; well, twice, because I gave up using the C1 card since it doesn't play nice with unattended gas pumps. If we had PIN-and-no-magstripe, the card would be completely useless to anyone who doesn't know the PIN and make the card an actual two-factor authentication system for payments (something you have, the card, and something you know, the PIN).

 

The U.S. screwed up this rollout very much. We had over 50 other countries we could have copied but, for some unknown reason, we had to haul off and try to reinvent the wheel. It is easier and faster for me to pay by card (with PIN) or even contactless (with my phone because virtually no MasterCard or VISA issuer will give out an NFC-capable card) by going to Canada than it is to stand in a Fred Meyer in Washington State.

IIRC First Tech and UNFCU are the only places in the US to get a true chip and PIN card.

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I know some may disagree, but chip cards aren't making things longer for me. I read one article about "longer lines" because of this. Come on. A few seconds more to complete transactions doesn't mean lines out the door at Target.

 

I'll be traveling to the UK again in about a week. Been to Europe many times. I have true chip and pin cards and the online pin ones. You'll be ok with the US variety. It's possible you may find some kiosk that only takes non-online pins, but you're usually ok otherwise. You're not going to end up living on the streets. It's always a good idea to carry a bit of local currency no matter what cards you have, just in case.

 

For now, maybe it's good US card issuers went the chip and signature route. The reason I say that is because, on average, the larger amount of bank cards U.S. consumers have, compared to folks in Europe. Having 10 or 20 cards here, while a lot, some may have. I suspect, some here on Creditboards have 100 bankcards. People will never be able to keep track of their pins.

Edited by Burgerwars

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I know some may disagree, but chip cards aren't making things longer for me. I read one article about "longer lines" because of this. Come on. A few seconds more to complete transactions doesn't mean lines out the door at Target.

 

I'll be traveling to the UK again in about a week. Been to Europe many times. I have true chip and pin cards and the online pin ones. You'll be ok with the US variety. It's possible you may find some kiosk that only takes non-online pins, but you're usually ok otherwise. You're not going to end up living on the streets. It's always a good idea to carry a bit of local currency no matter what cards you have, just in case.

I'm sorry, it's much slower than swiping cards. Much, much slower. There's no disputing that.

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I know some may disagree, but chip cards aren't making things longer for me. I read one article about "longer lines" because of this. Come on. A few seconds more to complete transactions doesn't mean lines out the door at Target.

 

I'll be traveling to the UK again in about a week. Been to Europe many times. I have true chip and pin cards and the online pin ones. You'll be ok with the US variety. It's possible you may find some kiosk that only takes non-online pins, but you're usually ok otherwise. You're not going to end up living on the streets. It's always a good idea to carry a bit of local currency no matter what cards you have, just in case.

I'm sorry, it's much slower than swiping cards. Much, much slower. There's no disputing that.

Oh, well. Even if it's so slow you can take a bath in the same time, we can't fight it. Chip cards aren't going away.

It's just science. Time moves slower when waiting in a line.

Are we there yet?

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I know some may disagree, but chip cards aren't making things longer for me. I read one article about "longer lines" because of this. Come on. A few seconds more to complete transactions doesn't mean lines out the door at Target.

 

I'll be traveling to the UK again in about a week. Been to Europe many times. I have true chip and pin cards and the online pin ones. You'll be ok with the US variety. It's possible you may find some kiosk that only takes non-online pins, but you're usually ok otherwise. You're not going to end up living on the streets. It's always a good idea to carry a bit of local currency no matter what cards you have, just in case.

I'm sorry, it's much slower than swiping cards. Much, much slower. There's no disputing that.
Oh, well. Even if it's so slow you can take a bath in the same time, we can't fight it. Chip cards aren't going away.

It's just science. Time moves slower when waiting in a line.

Are we there yet?

I understand, but let's be honest about it. It's slower. That's not something that is debatable.

 

I know it's not going away, so at the very least I expect that the speed will improve.

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I know some may disagree, but chip cards aren't making things longer for me. I read one article about "longer lines" because of this. Come on. A few seconds more to complete transactions doesn't mean lines out the door at Target.

 

I'll be traveling to the UK again in about a week. Been to Europe many times. I have true chip and pin cards and the online pin ones. You'll be ok with the US variety. It's possible you may find some kiosk that only takes non-online pins, but you're usually ok otherwise. You're not going to end up living on the streets. It's always a good idea to carry a bit of local currency no matter what cards you have, just in case.

I'm sorry, it's much slower than swiping cards. Much, much slower. There's no disputing that.
Oh, well. Even if it's so slow you can take a bath in the same time, we can't fight it. Chip cards aren't going away.

It's just science. Time moves slower when waiting in a line.

Are we there yet?

I understand, but let's be honest about it. It's slower. That's not something that is debatable.

 

I know it's not going away, so at the very least I expect that the speed will improve.

 

 

Of course!

 

Numerous issues. Main problem is from people swiping their card and then having to be told by the checkout clerk to insert the card after ringing up the order. Other annoyances are terminals that have chip readers but aren't enabled. But even when the stupid programming is fixed there is a delay of a second or two while the chip handshakes. Not sure why it takes that long but I'd guess the chip's CPU, which has to encrypt info, a cpu intensive operation, isn't exactly the world's fastest silicon. Likely the next generation will be much faster and will be similar to a swipe in time delay.

 

Meanwhile, as the OP linked, Visa is relaxing the stupid program requirements so users won't have to wait for the teller to finalize the tape.

Visa says its new Quick Chip specification can be integrated into the very complicated system of payments processors, acquiring banks, and payment networks for free and with ease. The new specs now permit an EMV card to be dipped and withdrawn from a terminal before the transaction is finalized, “typically in two seconds or less,”

 

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$@$#/$^#/

 

How could I NOT be the first one in this thread to say "kiosk"?

 

Long day flying from sea to shining sea. :(

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$@$#/$^#/

 

How could I NOT be the first one in this thread to say "kiosk"?

 

Long day flying from sea to shining sea. :(

The term "kiosk" is not something I've used until I've seen it discussed here. On this side of the pond, it's a machine, terminal, self-service something, piece of sh@t, etc.

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The term "kiosk" is not something I've used until I've seen it discussed here. On this side of the pond, it's a machine, terminal, self-service something, piece of sh@t, etc.

 

Finland is definitely enamored with its R Kioski. :grin: (They're great, like what a 7-11 could be if it was clean and had gambling machines.)

 

As to your other point about using a signature-style US card in the UK/on the continent, you're right, but damn it is so much more convenient to pay in the way that everyone around you expects. I used my C1 card once at S-Market (what is with Finland and "SingleLetter-DescriptionOfBusiness" names?) and I guarantee that the cashier searching for a pen took longer than any chip transaction in the States short of someone having to fax in an authorization request. Ever since that, First Tech or Revolut cards only. Insert, enter PIN, remove...takes under five seconds, max.

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I did 7 chip transactions today. Walgreens was already fast. 5 others were WAY faster than they were yesterday or the day prior. CVS must not have gotten the memo to update their crap.

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Walgreens chip card transactions take like 3 seconds. Not sure why everyone else's are slow motion. Maybe they are a test bed for the new standard.

Rite Aid transactions take like THREE MINUTES. Smh.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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