Still a noob.... Can they do this?

[HouseBound0829]

Hey Guys,

 

Dumb question. I had disputed AFNI back in November 2014, when they first appeared on my reports. They came back verified in Dec 2014 and updated the chargeoff date to 12/2014 as a paid chargeoff (KD)(I paid ATT directly). I redisputed them last month. They came back verified again this month and updated the chargeoff (KD) date 4/2015 (killing my score again). Can they do this?

 

 

[david_weaver]

Did they update the actual date of the CO, or did they just update that as of 4/2015 the status is CO? Simply updating something that had not been updated since November would be a solid ding to the scores, so it may be the very recent date of update and not a change you are seeing having an impact.

 

I am confused as to why a collection agency is reporting anything at all if you paid the OC?

[tweak]

Hey Guys,

 

Dumb question. I had disputed AFNI back in November 2014, when they first appeared on my reports. They came back verified in Dec 2014 and updated the chargeoff date to 12/2014 as a paid chargeoff (KD)(I paid ATT directly). I redisputed them last month. They came back verified again this month and updated the chargeoff (KD) date 4/2015 (killing my score again). Can they do this?

 

 

 

They are not allowed to change the Date of First Delinquency (DoFD).

They can add additional CO status notations each month -- but this does not change the DoFD.

 

Have you read this?

Pay OC instead of CA - process + letter

[HouseBound0829]

 

Hey Guys,

 

Dumb question. I had disputed AFNI back in November 2014, when they first appeared on my reports. They came back verified in Dec 2014 and updated the chargeoff date to 12/2014 as a paid chargeoff (KD)(I paid ATT directly). I redisputed them last month. They came back verified again this month and updated the chargeoff (KD) date 4/2015 (killing my score again). Can they do this?

 

 

 

They are not allowed to change the Date of First Delinquency (DoFD).

They can add additional CO status notations each month -- but this does not change the DoFD.

 

Have you read this?

Pay OC instead of CA - process + letter

 

Yes, Tweak but ICAN says it won't work with AFNI. I am at a loss.... If they keep "updating" the KD then it will hold down my scores for years. David, I paid ATTs automated system and it took payment. I have a statement from my credit card company that shows ATT as the payee. I am in Texas and was thinking of sending a Texas DV mixed with ICAN's letter. What do y'all think?

[tmcgill]

ATT assigned the debt to AFNI? I would send a 623 letter to ATT requesting a re-investigation, noting the AFNI updates on the charged off, paid account. I would also send the TX DV letter to AFNI.

 

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FI/htm/FI.392.htm

 

Also, the CO date is a static accounting event. Example: They can't CO in April and then again in December?? For purposes of IRS reporting, this is an accounting function that indicates the account is inactive and written off as a loss. I believe they must legally set the charge off date 180 days after an account becomes and remains delinquent/negative. Although they can send status updates, the CO date can't keep changing. It must show the actual date the account was charged off.

Edited April 22, 2015 by tmcgill

[david_weaver]

OK, while tmcgill is correct, it goes back to what I first asked: Did they CHANGE the date of the CO, or did they simply update the account as of April? It does not appear they did.

 

They can update every month until it falls off, they just cannot change the CO date or the DOFD. Most times, they do NOT update monthly, so your score improves as it ages. When you dispute, it updates like picking a scab and creating a fresh wound. But yes, some scumbags like Midland make sure they never miss a month of updating. For me, Cavalry was the worst at that, which is what made beating them so sweet.

 

Also, unless I am mistaken, KD is an Experian term to let you know that an item is having a major negative impact (a Key Derogatory) at a specific time. Having a CO noted as a KD on your Experian report should not change the impact of that account one way or the other.

 

That said, unless one of the experts disagrees, what tmcgill suggested would be my next course of action as well.

[HouseBound0829]

ATT assigned the debt to AFNI? I would send a 623 letter to ATT requesting a re-investigation, noting the AFNI updates on the charged off, paid account. I would also send the TX DV letter to AFNI.

 

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FI/htm/FI.392.htm

 

Also, the CO date is a static accounting event. Example: They can't CO in April and then again in December?? For purposes of IRS reporting, this is an accounting function that indicates the account is inactive and written off as a loss. I believe they must legally set the charge off date 180 days after an account becomes and remains delinquent/negative. Although they can send status updates, the CO date can't keep changing. It must show the actual date the account was charged off.

Good info there Tess. I love that movie BTW. I get confused by the language, but in essence, they have updated the "status" as Collection. I appreciate the 623 Idea. I didn't think about that.

[HouseBound0829]

OK, while tmcgill is correct, it goes back to what I first asked: Did they CHANGE the date of the CO, or did they simply update the account as of April? It does not appear they did.

 

They can update every month until it falls off, they just cannot change the CO date or the DOFD. Most times, they do NOT update monthly, so your score improves as it ages. When you dispute, it updates like picking a scab and creating a fresh wound. But yes, some scumbags like Midland make sure they never miss a month of updating. For me, Cavalry was the worst at that, which is what made beating them so sweet.

 

Also, unless I am mistaken, KD is an Experian term to let you know that an item is having a major negative impact (a Key Derogatory) at a specific time. Having a CO noted as a KD on your Experian report should not change the impact of that account one way or the other.

 

That said, unless one of the experts disagrees, what tmcgill suggested would be my next course of action as well.

No they did not change the date of the CO. I just got confused by the terms. MyBad. Good to know about the updating. I had no Idea. I would have waited to deal with this one if I had known. It is so damn frustrating! Just when I had started to make headway...

[david_weaver]

Like many things credit repair, the more you know, the better you can judge risk-reward.

 

I once disputed a several years old late on a closed auto lease on which I was a co-signer. I am sure it was not even mattering, but I was obsessed with getting my reports clean. Turned out the late was easy to remove, but apparently they were owed a final balance of $186 I had been unaware of? So they fixed the late, and updated that they had charged-off $186 which they were sending to their internal recovery department.

 

What does WhyChat say? "Beware Unintended Consequences"

 

I think you will beat them, so any hurt from their update will be short-lived. Good luck and keep us posted!

[tmcgill]

Like many things credit repair, the more you know, the better you can judge risk-reward.

 

Great response david_weaver. The analysis part is often hard to explain to those just starting out. You have to look at the big picture, and then examine each detail for anything you can legally leverage. Each situation has its own view.

Edited April 22, 2015 by tmcgill

[david_weaver]

The other thing I would add:

 

I cannot stress enough the critical importance of documentation. Even when what you are asking for receives a big, fat NO...there can still be future gains. Save every letter sent, every green card, every response letter, every dispute results. You hope to win the first time, but often do not. But you can win by amassing a mountain of documentation and then either finding a provable mistake or catching someone in a lie. Get a binder, or a shoebox, but keep everything you ever get that is related to your credit.

 

I fought Cavalry, Mortal Kombat style, and I did not think I would ever shake them. What finally got rid of them? I had asked Old Navy for goodwill on lates (this was the account Cavalry was trying to collect), and had received a letter back that they could not find any record of the account. I also had a CMRR to Cavalry (a DV) that they did not get as their change of address had expired. Not my problem. So between the failed DV, the obviously incorrect address they were giving the CRAs for dispute follow-ups, and the letter from Old Navy saying the had no record of the account, Cavalry decided my threat to sue was probably not just a threat. So none of my attempts were actually successful, but in the end, the failures provided the ammunition necessary to finally win.

 

I had a two-year battle with US Bank over old 120-day late payments. Yes, TWO YEARS. Twice I escalated it to their executive office. Twice, I was rebuffed with a warm letter and a copy of my payment history, along with a reassurance they were ABSOLUTELY reporting my account correctly. Well, when I looked very closely month by month, the two account histories did not match despite both supposedly being guaranteed 100% accurate. When I wrote to question why, the response was handled by a lower level CSR, not at the EO level. The response letter I received both stunned and elated me. I was told how they had transferred departments where those records were maintained, and when doing so, they found massive inaccuracies with the reporting of accounts of many customers, including me. For those that noticed or complained (or disputed through CRAs), changes were made to reflect accurate history, which was why my records as verified differed from one dispute to the next. But the writer went on to say how they did not fix anything unless people complained, as it would be too costly and time consuming to go through every account to make sure they have were reporting accurately. Needless to say, when I sent this letter to the EO, the account was immediately removed. That was the last real killer-negative on my reports.

 

I was watching my daughter's little league game last night, and trying to explain the nuances of the game to my wife (a huge football fan who could care less about baseball). It reminded me a lot of credit repair and credit management. Yes, in most cases the outfielder should throw to the cutoff man. But when you get into the different base-runner scenarios, whether the ball was behind or in front of the runners, the score, the number out outs, the arm strength of the guy throwing, my gosh how do the coaches keep their sanity when teaching kids something where there are seemingly no hard and fast rules? Basically, there are 'most common circumstances' and then there are limitless individual scenarios. As someone who has been a baseball fanatic for nearly 50 years, and a credit fanatic for a decade almost, it is often the littlest things that change the outcome of the game.

[HouseBound0829]

The other thing I would add:

 

I cannot stress enough the critical importance of documentation. Even when what you are asking for receives a big, fat NO...there can still be future gains. Save every letter sent, every green card, every response letter, every dispute results. You hope to win the first time, but often do not. But you can win by amassing a mountain of documentation and then either finding a provable mistake or catching someone in a lie. Get a binder, or a shoebox, but keep everything you ever get that is related to your credit.

 

I fought Cavalry, Mortal Kombat style, and I did not think I would ever shake them. What finally got rid of them? I had asked Old Navy for goodwill on lates (this was the account Cavalry was trying to collect), and had received a letter back that they could not find any record of the account. I also had a CMRR to Cavalry (a DV) that they did not get as their change of address had expired. Not my problem. So between the failed DV, the obviously incorrect address they were giving the CRAs for dispute follow-ups, and the letter from Old Navy saying the had no record of the account, Cavalry decided my threat to sue was probably not just a threat. So none of my attempts were actually successful, but in the end, the failures provided the ammunition necessary to finally win.

 

I had a two-year battle with US Bank over old 120-day late payments. Yes, TWO YEARS. Twice I escalated it to their executive office. Twice, I was rebuffed with a warm letter and a copy of my payment history, along with a reassurance they were ABSOLUTELY reporting my account correctly. Well, when I looked very closely month by month, the two account histories did not match despite both supposedly being guaranteed 100% accurate. When I wrote to question why, the response was handled by a lower level CSR, not at the EO level. The response letter I received both stunned and elated me. I was told how they had transferred departments where those records were maintained, and when doing so, they found massive inaccuracies with the reporting of accounts of many customers, including me. For those that noticed or complained (or disputed through CRAs), changes were made to reflect accurate history, which was why my records as verified differed from one dispute to the next. But the writer went on to say how they did not fix anything unless people complained, as it would be too costly and time consuming to go through every account to make sure they have were reporting accurately. Needless to say, when I sent this letter to the EO, the account was immediately removed. That was the last real killer-negative on my reports.

 

I was watching my daughter's little league game last night, and trying to explain the nuances of the game to my wife (a huge football fan who could care less about baseball). It reminded me a lot of credit repair and credit management. Yes, in most cases the outfielder should throw to the cutoff man. But when you get into the different base-runner scenarios, whether the ball was behind or in front of the runners, the score, the number out outs, the arm strength of the guy throwing, my gosh how do the coaches keep their sanity when teaching kids something where there are seemingly no hard and fast rules? Basically, there are 'most common circumstances' and then there are limitless individual scenarios. As someone who has been a baseball fanatic for nearly 50 years, and a credit fanatic for a decade almost, it is often the littlest things that change the outcome of the game.

Thanks for your time and response. I have started getting organized, and sorting out files. WHen I started this project, I disputed willy nilly and kept a drawer for all of this stuff. As you stated above, it become increasingly apparent that I need to get more organized. I have/am now. I am glad for your win. Each time I hear of someone being successful it gives me hope that I might be there one day.

[david_weaver]

You WILL win. There are methods on here on CB to defeat almost anyone or anything on your report. It takes some skill, some luck, some time, and it is always evolving.

[tmcgill]

Yep, CB is the best site you'll find. Started my original journey in 2002, so I've seen a lot of sites come and go. This one has consistently credible information with knowledgeable individuals who will genuinely spend their own time trying to help you.

[HouseBound0829]

Thanks Guys.