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M$ speed bumps


Konrad2012
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Have no idea how Alliant is about M$ although I know their system appears not to have blinked an eye at some gift cards purchased at a grocery store...had intended to give a bonus to an agent showing me properties (agent turned out to be a real useless POS).  Bonus for the spend posted quickly (20K points for $3K spend in first 90). 

 

That being said, if they see $500 grocery store spends multiple times a week in multiple cycles, it might eventually raise a red flag.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you have an Amex Blue Cash Everyday and upgrade to Blue Cash Preferred, Amex will bill you a prorated annual fee based on the months left in the current calendar year. However, according to Amex chat reps, you will still get 6% cash back on up to $6000 of grocery spend for the remainder of the calendar year after the product change, regardless of the prior spend on that Amex account during the current calendar year under either the Preferred or Everyday product types.

 

Hmmm. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/16/2018 at 5:56 PM, Konrad2012 said:

 

Hope it works out for MEC, but doubtful in the long run. Once you get eyes from Compliance on your account you're generally screwed. It's cheaper for the bank to fire you as a customer than deal with the hassles, especially if you're just dumping MO's into an account and then transferring the money out quickly.

Your instincts were as sharp as usual.

 

Got the letters for the three deposit accounts I'm early August. The savings accounts they set up for me years ago, without any requests on my part, that were empty for > a year were closed immediatly. The checking account had a notice that it would be closed in 6 days.

 

I emptied it and cancelled the only auto transfer the next day, but it persisted to remain open for the better part of the month. I ended up going into a branch and closing it and turning in the ATM card before the statement period ended later in August.

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  • 1 month later...

So to be honest, I really enjoy the benefits I get from M$ so I have no intention of stopping, probably continuing until the whole operation is shut down by someone in the M$ chain whether that be the credit card companies or WM but I was wondering if you guys who still do M$ if you have any particular strategy when it comes to how much you do on any one particular credit card or if you just don't care and do as much as you can until they shut you down? I ask this in the context of receiving an email today from one of my credit cards that I only M$ on around birthdays and Christmas as I used the reward points I get to claim mainly gift cards which works out to around 2.5%. In the email it states that they are changing the rules on their rewards programs to include a "misuse of account or Fraud" policy and that from November onwards this new policy will go into effect to include monitoring of all accounts for misuse / fraud. It doesn't take a million dollar computer to work out that M$ would easily be construed as misuse. Now I have seen this change in policy before which I am sure it is old hat to all the professional M$ers out there  but what really caught my notice was the threat of legal action to reclaim monies. It didn't make clear whether such action would be taken just for actual fraud or whether they would take legal action for misuse over and above just shutting down the account or whether this was just bluster to frighten. Anyway, I don't want the account shut down so I will cease M$ on it when November rolls around. My question to you is, It clearly states that this policy doesn't go into effect until November, do you think it is going to make any difference (especially considering the recent M$ I have done on this account) if I try and squeeze some more out of it before next month and then stop or just quit now?

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So I was wondering if someone can reiterate the rules on buying MOs as it pertains to structuring because I simply don't understand it in the context of Walmart. Ever since I started M$, I have always bought a maximum of $2000 in MOs per visit. I have asked on numerous occasions with different cashiers if I can buy more at one visit knowing that hitting or going over the $3000 limit would trigger a request for my details which doesn't bother me but I have always been told no and the reason why is because WM has a maximum number of 4 cards (using the $500 gift cards) it will accept for payment in one transaction, yet if I ask to do another MO in a separate transaction straight after they are telling me that is deemed to be structuring. From my perspective, it is a catch-22 situation because I want to do more MOs in one visit, yet the only way to do more than $2000 is to do multiple transactions because of their systems.....but by even asking to do that, it is structuring. Now I don't know if this issue is just a local one with the WMs in my area having poorly trained cashiers or if in fact they are telling me the correct info as it relates to structuring and buying MOs. So any clarification from the experts would be very much appreciated.

 

Just to add further to all this, this morning at my local WM, I was told I had to show my drivers license in order to purchase my $2000 in MOs. I was informed that WM had updated their systems that now required an ID to purchase the MOs. Now I wasn't asked for the more personal info such as a SSN so I doubt it had anything to do with that financial reporting but if they are going to require an ID each time, it going to slow things down as well as make it frustrating for me because I will be handing over ID knowing I can't buy more than the $2000. I haven't checked out any other WMs yet to see if this was just a single store policy or if there has indeed been a system wide update at all WMs

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I only do 1000 at a time. Only been asked for ID once. A few weeks ago had a supervisor deny me saying GC were not allowed. Went to a different Walmart and no problem. I think it varies by who you deal with.

i try to swipe the card so they can’t see the name on it. Now I use a marker and black out the GC name.

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:34 PM, leedspaddy said:

So to be honest, I really enjoy the benefits I get from M$ so I have no intention of stopping, probably continuing until the whole operation is shut down by someone in the M$ chain whether that be the credit card companies or WM but I was wondering if you guys who still do M$ if you have any particular strategy when it comes to how much you do on any one particular credit card or if you just don't care and do as much as you can until they shut you down? I ask this in the context of receiving an email today from one of my credit cards that I only M$ on around birthdays and Christmas as I used the reward points I get to claim mainly gift cards which works out to around 2.5%. In the email it states that they are changing the rules on their rewards programs to include a "misuse of account or Fraud" policy and that from November onwards this new policy will go into effect to include monitoring of all accounts for misuse / fraud. It doesn't take a million dollar computer to work out that M$ would easily be construed as misuse. Now I have seen this change in policy before which I am sure it is old hat to all the professional M$ers out there  but what really caught my notice was the threat of legal action to reclaim monies. It didn't make clear whether such action would be taken just for actual fraud or whether they would take legal action for misuse over and above just shutting down the account or whether this was just bluster to frighten. Anyway, I don't want the account shut down so I will cease M$ on it when November rolls around. My question to you is, It clearly states that this policy doesn't go into effect until November, do you think it is going to make any difference (especially considering the recent M$ I have done on this account) if I try and squeeze some more out of it before next month and then stop or just quit now?

In general, I try to keep purchases under half my credit limit in a particular month. So, I'm sure to get the CL high enough at the start. For Amex cards, I always pre-authorize the spending in the mobile app before I make a $k++ purchase.

 

Which means I never cycle the CL, a big no-no from everything I have heard. Exception was the WF cards when the bonuses were unlimited, WF truly doesn't care right now, they only want to show wall street that they aren't losing customers.

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On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 9:56 AM, leedspaddy said:

So I was wondering if someone can reiterate the rules on buying MOs as it pertains to structuring because I simply don't understand it in the context of Walmart. Ever since I started M$, I have always bought a maximum of $2000 in MOs per visit. I have asked on numerous occasions with different cashiers if I can buy more at one visit knowing that hitting or going over the $3000 limit would trigger a request for my details which doesn't bother me but I have always been told no and the reason why is because WM has a maximum number of 4 cards (using the $500 gift cards) it will accept for payment in one transaction, yet if I ask to do another MO in a separate transaction straight after they are telling me that is deemed to be structuring. From my perspective, it is a catch-22 situation because I want to do more MOs in one visit, yet the only way to do more than $2000 is to do multiple transactions because of their systems.....but by even asking to do that, it is structuring. Now I don't know if this issue is just a local one with the WMs in my area having poorly trained cashiers or if in fact they are telling me the correct info as it relates to structuring and buying MOs. So any clarification from the experts would be very much appreciated.

 

Just to add further to all this, this morning at my local WM, I was told I had to show my drivers license in order to purchase my $2000 in MOs. I was informed that WM had updated their systems that now required an ID to purchase the MOs. Now I wasn't asked for the more personal info such as a SSN so I doubt it had anything to do with that financial reporting but if they are going to require an ID each time, it going to slow things down as well as make it frustrating for me because I will be handing over ID knowing I can't buy more than the $2000. I haven't checked out any other WMs yet to see if this was just a single store policy or if there has indeed been a system wide update at all WMs

Give them what they want in order to get your MOs. Structuring is real, but you aren't doing it. Just keep your receipts and know how to show your deposits. There's nothing wrong with them asking for your ID to track that you are moving cash around if that's what it takes to play the game.

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On 11/5/2018 at 9:32 AM, spreereview said:

Give them what they want in order to get your MOs. Structuring is real, but you aren't doing it. Just keep your receipts and know how to show your deposits. There's nothing wrong with them asking for your ID to track that you are moving cash around if that's what it takes to play the game.

Under the Bank Secrecy Act, financial institutions are required to report cash transactions of $10,000 or more.  There's nothing wrong with CTR's and large cash transactions - a CTR is simply a reporting requirement.  But splitting up large transactions to avoid triggering a CTR is referred to as "Structuring", and this reporting avoidance is a crime in and of itself - even if there was no illegal behavior (money laundering, etc) behind the actual transactions.  If a financial institution suspects structuring is occurring, it is required to submit a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR), which can lead to a criminal investigation.  So, No, buying MO's at WM is not "Structuring" - even if you were to do back-to-back transactions. 

 

The real concern when buying MO's is having the store simply refusing to sell to you - and I fear that's what the new ID policy is aimed at.  In the past, some people who were performing very high volumes (like six-figures/month), have came under the scrutiny of MG, and have been "blacklisted", with their local WM's being told to not sell MO's to those persons.  Up till now, this blacklisting has only been with persons performing very high volumes.  But with this new move to capture ID's with every purchase over x-amount, I fear that MG might use this information to identify and ultimately to blacklist "undesirable" customers ("I'm sorry sir, the register has cancelled the transaction and is telling me that I can't sell you any MO's").   

 

The new policy (and this is only a store policy - not a law or banking regulation), is to enter your ID into the register for MO purchases of $1000 or more.  If you're only an occasional MS'er (a couple times a month), having your ID tracked *might* not be an issue.  Especially if you hold on to your MO's for 4-5 days before depositing (so that MG gets their float).  But if you're making multiple purchases per week, I suggest adjusting your purchasing patterns to avoid having to provide ID.  That's what I'm doing.

Edited by JeffeVerde
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20 hours ago, JeffeVerde said:

Under the Bank Secrecy Act, financial institutions are required to report cash transactions of $10,000 or more.  There's nothing wrong with CTR's and large cash transactions - a CTR is simply a reporting requirement.  But splitting up large transactions to avoid triggering a CTR is referred to as "Structuring", and this reporting avoidance is a crime in and of itself - even if there was no illegal behavior (money laundering, etc) behind the actual transactions.  If a financial institution suspects structuring is occurring, it is required to submit a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR), which can lead to a criminal investigation.  So, No, buying MO's at WM is not "Structuring" - even if you were to do back-to-back transactions. 

 

The real concern when buying MO's is having the store simply refusing to sell to you - and I fear that's what the new ID policy is aimed at.  In the past, some people who were performing very high volumes (like six-figures/month), have came under the scrutiny of MG, and have been "blacklisted", with their local WM's being told to not sell MO's to those persons.  Up till now, this blacklisting has only been with persons performing very high volumes.  But with this new move to capture ID's with every purchase over x-amount, I fear that MG might use this information to identify and ultimately to blacklist "undesirable" customers ("I'm sorry sir, the register has cancelled the transaction and is telling me that I can't sell you any MO's").   

 

The new policy (and this is only a store policy - not a law or banking regulation), is to enter your ID into the register for MO purchases of $1000 or more.  If you're only an occasional MS'er (a couple times a month), having your ID tracked *might* not be an issue.  Especially if you hold on to your MO's for 4-5 days before depositing (so that MG gets their float).  But if you're making multiple purchases per week, I suggest adjusting your purchasing patterns to avoid having to provide ID.  That's what I'm doing.

Thank you Jeff for the explanation on the structuring issue. Your opinion on why MG is requiring the ID actually makes sense but is very underhanded on MG's part if true. I honestly don't know why MG would have a problem with MSing as they are making money after all especially off me not depositing for 3 or 4 days after purchase on most of my MOs. Prior to your possible theory behind the change, I wasn't bothered about showing my ID but I did go overboard complaining about how long now each transaction was taking because of the change and so a couple of the cashiers who now know me very well have allowed me to break up my usual $2000 into 2 separate transactions of $999.11 so I can avoid the ID delay.

 

Now just to clarify what you said, everything I have been told over and over again by the WM cashiers as it pertains to their definition of structuring is complete crap right? Ever since I started this game, I have always been restricted to a maximum of $2K per visit each time (even if I had 6 or 7K in gift cards in my wallet). As you know they restrict a single  transaction to a maximum of using 4 different cards to pay.....yet I was coming up against the structuring argument each and every time when I told them that I wanted more than 2K but would have to spread it over separate transactions (because of the $500 gift cards). So since the change, I have still bought my usual $2k from one WM giving over my ID and then have gone to my next WM and just bought a MO for $999.11. Even though it is going to be a real hassle, I believe you are advocating never buying over $1000 again and I should stop immediately with my $2K buys except for when those cashiers who allow me to split the transactions are working so that MG never gets my ID again....RIGHT????

Finally sorry for repeating myself but I want to be exact on this..............there is nothing wrong with me buying two MOs for $999.11 over back to back transactions at one visit if allowed by the cashiers....Right? The only thing I can think of where WM gets its definition of  structuring is doing multiple transactions to avoid the $3000 reporting threshold for the CTR. It just blows my mind why they won't let me do more transactions over and above the 3K.......I keep wondering what I am doing wrong when I hear of MS professionals are able to buy a lot more than $3K.

 

Anyway at the end of the day, I just want to be left alone to continue my MSing and follow the rules.

 

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So does anyone have any WORKING alternatives to WM for MOs?  I believe USPS was definitely ruled out of being an alternative a long time time ago. I did ask in a prior post if anyone had purchased the VGCs from the grocery store they usually used and then gone back to another location of the same grocery store to try and drain the  VGCs. I didn't get many responses except NO!!!....but I thought I would ask again anyway. I just reckon that this latest move by MG maybe a first step towards shutting down the whole MS game by eventually preventing the use of VGCs to pay for the MOs so alternatives will have to be found or we will just have to stop the MS game.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:28 PM, leedspaddy said:

 

 

Now just to clarify what you said, everything I have been told over and over again by the WM cashiers as it pertains to their definition of structuring is complete crap right? 

 

The only thing I can think of where WM gets its definition of  structuring is doing multiple transactions to avoid the $3000 $10,000 reporting threshold for the CTR. It just blows my mind why they won't let me do more transactions over and above the 3K.. I keep wondering what I am doing wrong when I hear of MS professionals are able to buy a lot more than $3K. $3,000 is the threshold for a MIL, (Monetary Instrument Log), NOT a CTR.

 

I just want to be left alone to continue my MSing and follow the rules.

 

Mostly crap from the WM cashiers, (but who knows how knowledgeable any given money center cashier is).

 

Super MS friendly WM's can allow up to $10K of MO's, (but perhaps your local WM just doesn't want to bother with the MIL.

 

I've not heard the term "Structuring" used except on the bank deposit end for the MO's. For example: deposit $4k Monday in bank A, deposit $4k Wednesday in bank B, deposit $4k Friday in bank C, and viola, it looks like you structured your deposits to avoid the CTR a single bank would forward to FinCEN automatically if you just deposited the $12k in a single bank.

 

The best way to avoid any suspicion of structuring is always make your MS MO deposits OVER $10K.

 

It's a good idea to be aware of these rules if you play this game and below I place a link to a pretty good overall view of the BSA rules.

 

https://milestomemories.boardingarea.com/money-orders-manufactured-spend/

 

Someone may chime in and say "Yeah,, but MO's aren't cash".

 

Before you believe that read below.

 

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013

 

 

4.26.13.3.1 (01-07-2016)
Identification of Potentially Structured Transactions in a Title 26 Form 8300 Examination

The preplan for a Title 26 Form 8300 examination must include steps to identify transactions which may have been structured to avoid the reporting requirements of 26 USC 6050I.

Whether a transaction is structured is determined by the definition of “cash” received. The regulations (see 26 CFR 1.6050I-1(c)) define cash to include monetary instruments (such as cashier’s checks, bank drafts, traveler’s checks, or money orders) having a face value of not more than $10,000 when received in a designated reporting transaction (see IRM 4.26.10 and section 1.6050I-1(c)(1)(B)(1)), or when received in any transaction in which the recipient knows the instrument is being used to avoid reporting of the transaction under section 6050I (section 1.6050I-1(c)(1)(B)(2)).

 

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14 hours ago, Chris58 said:

Mostly crap from the WM cashiers, (but who knows how knowledgeable any given money center cashier is).

 

Super MS friendly WM's can allow up to $10K of MO's, (but perhaps your local WM just doesn't want to bother with the MIL.

 

I've not heard the term "Structuring" used except on the bank deposit end for the MO's. For example: deposit $4k Monday in bank A, deposit $4k Wednesday in bank B, deposit $4k Friday in bank C, and viola, it looks like you structured your deposits to avoid the CTR a single bank would forward to FinCEN automatically if you just deposited the $12k in a single bank.

 

The best way to avoid any suspicion of structuring is always make your MS MO deposits OVER $10K.

 

It's a good idea to be aware of these rules if you play this game and below I place a link to a pretty good overall view of the BSA rules.

 

https://milestomemories.boardingarea.com/money-orders-manufactured-spend/

 

Someone may chime in and say "Yeah,, but MO's aren't cash".

 

Before you believe that read below.

 

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013

 

 

4.26.13.3.1 (01-07-2016)
Identification of Potentially Structured Transactions in a Title 26 Form 8300 Examination

The preplan for a Title 26 Form 8300 examination must include steps to identify transactions which may have been structured to avoid the reporting requirements of 26 USC 6050I.

Whether a transaction is structured is determined by the definition of “cash” received. The regulations (see 26 CFR 1.6050I-1(c)) define cash to include monetary instruments (such as cashier’s checks, bank drafts, traveler’s checks, or money orders) having a face value of not more than $10,000 when received in a designated reporting transaction (see IRM 4.26.10 and section 1.6050I-1(c)(1)(B)(1)), or when received in any transaction in which the recipient knows the instrument is being used to avoid reporting of the transaction under section 6050I (section 1.6050I-1(c)(1)(B)(2)).

 

Let me ask you, after reading yours and others definition of structuring it seems clear that WM cashiers are confusing the true definition of structuring as I always thought it was solely used to reference  the bank deposit end of things and had nothing to do with the MO purchasing end. Personally, I don't really want to shake up the good relationship I have with the WM cashiers by challenging them on this but it does really annoy the hell out of me when they throw in the word structuring as the reason why I can't buy more than 2K. So I just want to clarify something, just from the way the WM cashiers describe structuring in terms of MOs, they are preventing me from buying more over multiple transactions because they think I am trying to break up the amounts to prevent a MIL......so is an MIL filed if I buy $3000 or more in one transaction or is it the total I buy in one visit? If it is the latter then there should be no reason why they won't let me do more than the 2K I am currently buying (I would really appreciate it if someone can confirm my thinking on this one point). I have nothing to hide and don't particularly care if they do an MIL (unless there is something I don't know).

 

Just as a side note, when I opened a new bank account to be used for my MSing, I did get a call from the bank manager when I made my first 10K deposit. He wasn't questioning the 10K but the fact that the deposit was in MOs. It was at this time I explained to him what I was doing and he was fine with it but whether rightly or wrongly he also told me that the bank would only ever file a CTR for deposits 10K+ made in cash and not MOs. which I thought was strange because MOs are considered cash. So let me ask you, if a CTR was being filed once a week to FinCen for my 10K+ deposits wouldn't I eventually hear from them questioning why I am depositing so much????? I know it is always best to declare what you are doing by following the rules and Regs but I am personally surprised I haven't heard from anyone regarding my deposits unless it is true that this bank doesn't report them or FinCen just doesn't care as long as you are being truthful.

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Here's why MO issuers may not wish to authorize more $3k+ in purchases in a visit:  As discussed above, issuing agencies must make a record of such purchases.  Implicitly, they must also aggregate such transactions over a period of days; if they total $10k+ they must file a CTR.

 

Restricting purchases to $2k a day, largely relieves the agency of any record requirement and, unless an individual comes in an excessive number of days in a short time, relieves them of any need to track purchases for possible CTR.

 

Conceivably, making separate purchases of lesser amounts, aggregating to $3000+, spread over a number of days would result in a SAR being filed.  But, without triggering a daily record requirement, I suggest such purchases would need to be particularly visible to trigger a SAR.

 

There's a caveat to the above discussion:  This reflects minimum required record keeping.  A reporter could exceed those standards by keeping daily records at lower thresholds (say, $1000+/day in purchases, and reporting any multiple day period in excess of $10k).

 

A bit of background, just to be sure we're all on the same wavelength:

 

The IRS is intent on capturing income-related transaction conducted in cash (without the standard income documentation).  CTR policies are in place to effect that intent.  There's no implicit assumption that such cash transactions reflect unreported/underreported income.  However, above a certain threshold, if not reflected in a tax return, an individual is likely to be called upon to explain the transactions and why they were excluded.

 

SAR's take cash reporting into a higher realm.  When authorities decide to take action on SAR filings, there's an implicit assumption of structuring to avoid CTR reporting.  Such "structuring" is a crime and is prosecuted where warranted.  The burden is on the individual to prove that reporting avoidance wasn't a goal.   Even if the filing was happenstance (say, you received multiple cash receipts over a number of days and deposited them in good faith as received, but ran afoul of the aggregate threshold), you may still have to convince authorities that there was no overt attempt to avert reporting.

 

Edited by hdporter
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Konrad stupid question for you.......You recommended getting the 3% Alliant credit card. So when I get shut down after I have hammered it (well hammered as hard as I can with a lowish limit), it is extremely likely that there will be a balance on the card if not close by to the statement closing date. Will credit unions such as Alliant steal my money in the savings account to pay towards the credit card balance or just hold it hostage until the balance is paid even though there will be a history of PIF each month. Their savings account is paying 2% at the moment which seems to be a lot better than most for a basic savings account and so I have been putting money in that account..

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:54 PM, leedspaddy said:

 

Just as a side note, when I opened a new bank account to be used for my MSing, I did get a call from the bank manager when I made my first 10K deposit. He wasn't questioning the 10K but the fact that the deposit was in MOs. It was at this time I explained to him what I was doing and he was fine with it but whether rightly or wrongly he also told me that the bank would only ever file a CTR for deposits 10K+ made in cash and not MOs. which I thought was strange because MOs are considered cash. So let me ask you, if a CTR was being filed once a week to FinCen for my 10K+ deposits wouldn't I eventually hear from them questioning why I am depositing so much????? I know it is always best to declare what you are doing by following the rules and Regs but I am personally surprised I haven't heard from anyone regarding my deposits unless it is true that this bank doesn't report them or FinCen just doesn't care as long as you are being truthful.

Your bank manager may not even know what he/she's talking about, (the bank's compliance department handles this sort of thing).

 

You'll NEVER hear from FinCen about anything. They're not a law enforcement agency, (merely a regulatory unit of the US Treasury department that maintains a database and reports to various law enforcement agencies).

 

You may never hear from any law enforcement agency over this, (but if you do it will probably have a significant time lag involved).

 

The most likely contact you'd have is with the IRS, (and if the examination is triggered by MS* I'd expect it to be 2 or 3 years AFTER the triggering activity, and probably include more than one years returns).

 

A rock-solid paper trail is only prudent if you're doing this at $10k+ per week.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Can someone share their experience if any of using Giftcardmall.com or simongiftcardmall.com? So I am finding that my local grocery chain is taking longer and longer to fill their GC displays with new $500 VGC when they run out despite me reminding them. I have found myself certainly in the last week, travelling further distances just to meet my VGC purchase goals as this grocery chain is the only store that I know of in my state that allows you to buy VGCs with a credit card but even they have now changed things where they only allow the purchase of $1000 in VGCs in technically one visit which sucks considering I use to get 2 or 3K previously.

 

So I just discovered that the nearest mall to me that I honestly rarely go to because I do 95% of my shopping online is a simon mall. Are Simon malls still a good option for purchasing the $500 VGCs from and if yes do they allow you to purchase with a credit card and what if any is the limit they will allow you to buy at one visit?

 

This brings me to the online sites........the major drawback for me is that they are listing shipping times up to a couple of weeks which doesn't really work for me by itself but I could include it in addition to my other VGCs purchases at the grocery chain. Do they have a limit on how much you can buy in one transaction......I mean would a SAR likely be filed if I tried to buy say 5K in one transaction each a week?. I would much rather just fill out whatever information they require than leave it to fate as to whether a SAR is filed.

 

Any first hand knowledge on Simon malls or the online sites would be greatly appreciated....thanks

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dumb question:
How can you make significant money if you have to pay a fee when you buy the gift cards (usually around $4 each I think), plus a fee when you buy the money orders?

The only place I've ever seen Visa cards without a fee is at my bank, and you have to buy them with cash or funds from your account.

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The low-hanging fruit is SUBs. You will net from at least 10% to over 40% on the MSR for the ones worth doing.

 

If you want to maximize this do A LOT of research into 5/24 etc. before you start. If you start wrong you'll miss many opportunities. Things change fast so beware of obsolete information.

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